Eric Lindros, bust or biggest bust ever?

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Baaa Baaaa Baaaaaa

We are all sheep, follow the leader.

You are right GST, because the majority thinks it is right, it must be!! How could I have ever used my mind to form thoughts of it's own?! I'm so ashamed.

I guess, based on your logic, were Sidney Crosby to be killed in a car accident tomorrow, you'd label him a bust based upon the reasons you label Lindros a bust. i.e. no cup, not enough points, didn't live up to Gretzky, etc.....

I'm not asking you to be a sheep. I'm just asking you not to be so ******* dumb. There's a reason why about 90% of the people in this thread think he isn't a bust. It's not because they are sheep. Its because they are smarter than you and aren't holding some personal bias against the player on this issue.

By the way, there are going to be a few players in the years to come that will inevitably always be compared to Gretzky. The fact that there is no high-scoring 80's type of game anymore and the fact that its so hard to be a multiple Cup winner during your career, basically every player for the rest of eternity is going to fall short of Gretzky status. Therefore, by your amazing wisdom (yes, that's sarcasm) we can go ahead and dub them all busts before they even step foot on NHL ice. Nobody is ever going to be the next Gretzky. Just because some sportswriters think a guy will be shouldn't be gospel and shouldn't be held against a player who can't live up to those lofty expectations.

[Legionnaire11 0]

surprised at the large amount of Lindros support in here. For those who don't know, I grew up in philly before moving to Nashville. My last year there was the cup finals against Detroit, I think Stevens hit lindros the next season before the Preds were concieved. Growing up, playing street/pond hockey I was always Lindros.

When he was in his prime the guy flat out dominated games from one end of the rink to the other. He would flatten a guy in the defensive zone then head up ice with the puck and run over a defender before one handing a shot past the goalie. and that's no lie, he did that at least 3 times that I can remember.

He wasn't known as a goal scorer, but that guy had amazing shooting skills and accuracy. He could also fight as well as anyone, I remember when he knocked out one of the guys on the caps with one punch. But he was just the complete package, size, speed, skill. impossible to contain because what are you going to do when a 245lb monster is bearing down on you with speed that you would expect from Bure, kariya or Selanne(back then)? and soft hands too, he could handle the puck and distribute it.

You have to look at his team too. the best goalie he ever had was a washed up Hextall. Other than that he played a lot of games in front of Roussell and Soderstrom, garth snow was there too. you had basically Lindros and LeClaire providing the offense, Brind'Amour as the shutdown forward and Desjardins on the point. The rest of the team was guys like Dan Kordic, Trent Klatt and Pat Falloon. Put it this way... Joel Otto was a big pickup for them.

Bust, most certainly not. People have let the last 7 seasons cloud their memory of his first 6.

HOF??? I don't know. in my definition of hall of "fame", then yes he gets in. But what the hall really is, I really doubt it.

I really think the hall of FAME, should be more like a history book of the league. Put in the guys who mattered during each era. The guys that people were talking about. Nobody can say that Sean Avery hasn't been a huge part of the league in recent years, but no way he gets into the hall. He'll be long forgotten one day and I think it's a shame. As much as I dislike him, Avery is part of the story of the league right now. Lindros was a huge story in the league in the 90's, he was part of the leagues "Fame". That's not how it works though, so I don't think he gets in.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

GP:760

G:372

A:493

P:865

PIM:1398

That is the stat line of Eric Lindros. He never did live up to the hype, or potential. Never won a Cup, only had one finals appearance. Never played a full 82 game season. 8 out of 13 seasons, he was an All-Star. He averaged 1.14 PPG.

Hall of Fame worthy?

I don't think so.

That's funny, I could swear there are guys in the HOF that have worse credentials than you just mentioned. As for the hype and potential, those were unrealistic expectations, and I don't see how he can be blamed for the injury problems that caused him to not meet those expectations.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

Lindros is a tough subject because of what he was supposed to mean for the NHL and all the circumstances surrounding his career. Was he a bust? I'm internally debating that. It'd be stupid to say he's the "biggest bust ever," but you can make an argument for him being a bust for a few simple reasons:

1. The hype. Yea, it's unfair to measure someone by their hype, but when you're anticipated to be one of the best ever, it's next to impossible not to fail.

2. The guy refused to play for Quebec, and was traded to Philly for Forsberg, Steve Duchesne, Kerry Huffman, Ricci, Hextall, Chris Simon, and a couple of 1st round picks.... This is the biggest reason, IMO, that he is a bust. Forberg went on to have 2 100+ pt seasons (1 more than Lindros) and win 2 cups (2 more than Lindros). In hindsight that was probably one of the dumbest trades in hockey history... and once again, it put undue pressure on Lindros.

3. The guy could have retired a legend in Philly, even without winning a cup. Instead he decided to beef with Bobby Clarke (the best player to ever wear a flyers jersey).

So, Lindros had the odds stacked against him from day 1, but he also made a number of poor choices. Still, it's hard to call someone who won a hart, got his team to the finals, and averaged well over a point per game a bust.

As far as the HHOF is concerned, he's not getting in. Better players have been blacklisted from the HHOF because of the public's opinion of them (see Dino Ciccarelli). So, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he never got in.

[Opie 308]

If Lindros does not ask to be traded the lanch never get Roy (and to a lesser degree Keane).

Jocelyn Thibault were traded for Roy, they don't get T-Bow with out the draft choice from Philly!

Not that this has anything to do with the topic though, but just another thing to think about when you realize what Philly gave up to get him.

[Shockwave180 0]

I think it's a bit rich that people like us who've never scored and will never score an NHL goal in our lives (except in our most fantastical dreams) can sit here and call a guy who scored 372 of them a bust.

Lindros didn't ask for the hype, nor can he be faulted for the concussions that ruined his career.

Is he a HOFer? Not quite. But "bust" is a ridiculous tag.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Jiri Fischer: BUST.

[wingslogo19 281]

I think it's a bit rich that people like us who've never scored and will never score an NHL goal in our lives (except in our most fantastical dreams) can sit here and call a guy who scored 372 of them a bust.

Lindros didn't ask for the hype, nor can he be faulted for the concussions that ruined his career.

Is he a HOFer? Not quite. But "bust" is a ridiculous tag.

Well on some cases he was looking down at the puck so im not too sure i agree with that.

But that part i do agree with you on

[Hockey Junkie 0]

Nope. Unless you are a die-hard Flyers fan. Only because his arrival saw the departure of what made up a big core of Colorado’s Stanley Cup wins, i.e. Forsberg. It’s all relative anyway. If you expected him to be the savior of Philly and deliver a few Cups, then maybe to you, he is the biggest bust. But he had a few years of dominance, unlike some of the number 1 draft picks that never amounted to anything, like Daigle.

[T.Low 1,011]

Never dominated the league?? Bulls***! Do you remember the '90s at all?

If he wasn't a dominant player, why would the Wings, when faced with the prospect of trying to beat him in a seven game series, assign their toughest, nastiest defenseman to shadow him all game, every game? Lindros was easily one of the most feared players in all the league in the '90s.

I don't care whether or not he's Hall of Fame worthy. That's a debate that goes beyond Lindros because there are other players in that position. But calling him a bust is ridiculous. Even remotely mentioning "biggest bust ever" is plain ignorant. Hype is not the same as potential. Most players never are the "player they could have been." Is Mario Lemieux a bust because he could have done better, what with that back injury and the cancer? Is Owen Nolan a bust? Same draft position, therefore, same expectations - but no Cup and worse stats.

And reverted to same when Lindros left.

By the way, if a Cup is what makes you not a bust, Boyd Devereaux will be happy to hear the news.

Listenning to the Team 1040 out of Vancouver yesterday, Ray Ferraro said Lindros could dump him on his ass at any given time. Impossible to defend against. Also said his numbers were about the same as Forsbergs.

While he did not reach the pinnacle of an NHL career (Lord Stanley's Cup) he was awesome. Bust? : no. HOF?: I would say yes, but wtf do I know

[Legionnaire11 0]

imagine if he had signed in Quebec. If people thought Sakic/Forsberg was a great combo, there would have been nothing to stop Sakic/Lindros. They wouldn't have needed Roy, they could have won in Quebec with Fiset in net. In fact, i'm pretty sure Philly played Quebec in the first round during the Nords final season there, could have been Lindros vs Forsberg on opposite teams and no one would have ever known any different.

Everyone would be talking about how great and dominant the Sakic/Lindros Nordiques were, and how Forsberg was pretty good in Philly but never had any support and had a bum ankle that stopped him from fulfilling his potential

Edited November 8, 2007 by Legionnaire11

[BlakChamber 8]

HHOF: No.

Bust: No way.

[cap20066 0]

I'm not asking you to be a sheep. I'm just asking you not to be so ******* dumb.

ahahahahaha

very good.

[Kp-Wings 3]

4 PPG average? That isn't even 2 my friend, it's much closer to 1.5 PPG.

Ok, so that's a little high, but you get my point.

I just don't know how you can consider a guy a bust when he scored almost 1000 career points in less than 1000 games, and won both a Hart and Lester B. Pearson Trophy in that time.

I guess we just have different opinions of what a bust is.

Edited November 8, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

HHOF: No.

Bust: No way.

I'd be surprised if he made it into the hall, but bust??? Are you people serious?

Yes there was a ton of hype around him, but I could only consider a guy a bust if he never showed near the amount of talent he supposedly had.

Someone has already posted Lindros's numbers. how could you look at those and call the guy a bust?

He was a monster when healthy and everything people hyped him to be.

The guy obviously has tons of health issues, which is a major disappointment for a player of his abilities. But that doesn't make him a bust.

I never said he wasn't good. I never said he wasn't feared. I never said he didn't produce. But he wasn't the most dominate player in the 90's. He was a good player. Great for a few years, maybe.

Was Nolan or Deveraux touted as the Next One? No, they weren't. They were not the franchise saving, game changing players Lindros was supposed to be.

And no, Lemieux isn't a bust because he had cancer. He did everything he was supposed to do, and more. Lindros did nothing he was supposed to do.

Lindros did nothing he was supposed to do??

How long have you been watching hockey? Did you ever see him play?

wtf else was he supposed to do? The biggest and only real detriment to his game his how fragile his health was.

in 1996 he had 47 goals and 68 assists for 115 points in 73 games. 1.5 points per game isn't dominant enough for you?

As I said, his constant health issues make him a disappoinment, but he's nowhere near a bust. You must have some beef with the guy because I can't see a hockey fan in their right mind calling Lindros a bust with a straight face.

[Kp-Wings 3]

nvm

Edited November 8, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[auxlepli 17]

If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

If Mario Lemieux doesn't have back injuries and cancer, he's the greatest hockey player ever. Careers, HOFers, and rather a player is a bust or not shouldn't be based on "ifs" and "buts." IMO the criteria should be based on longevity and how well he played.

[BeeRYCE 2]

Notable list of busts as per Wikipedia:

1999-Patrick Stefan, Atlanta Thrashers (1st overall)

1999-Pavel Brendl, New York Rangers (4th overall)

1997-Daniel Tkaczuk, Calgary Flames (6th overall)

1996-Alexandre Volchkov, Washington Capitals (4th overall)

1994-Jason Bonsignore, Edmonton Oilers (4th overall)

1993-Alexandre Daigle, Ottawa Senators (1st overall)

1992-Ryan Sittler, Philadelphia Flyers (7th overall)

1991-Pat Falloon, San Jose Sharks (2nd overall)

1989-Dave Chyzowski, New York Islanders (2nd overall)

1987-Bryan Fogarty, Quebec Nordiques (7th overall)

1983-Brian Lawton, Minnesota North Stars (1st overall)

1982-Gord Kluzak, Boston Bruins (1st overall)

1980-Doug Wickenheiser, Montreal Canadiens (1st overall)

1975-Barry Dean, Kansas City Scouts (2nd overall)

1974-Greg Joly, Washington Capitals (1st overall)

Now... Compare Lindros to them, try it.

Edited November 8, 2007 by BeeRYCE

[b.shanafan14 733]

Great hockey player in his prime, good enough statistically to carry a PPG that high after about a decade of injury. Bust? Not in regards to production. But I can see how, looking back at a guy like Lindros' career and seeing that he retires at 33 (I had to go back and double check that, couldn't believe it) you could believe him a bust. But overall, calling him a bust is unfounded. Look at Forsberg, much as I dislike the guy he was amazing, but injuries have now grounded his career and he'll probably never play again.

One of my arguments for Steve Yzerman in the all-time greats department is that of all the things he did over his career, he did the bulk on one knee, not to mention countless other injuries (and defensive play, etc. don't get me started).

Lindros is definately no bust, great player hampered by injury and still carrying the load statistically in his career as a whole. That said I don't think I would see him in the HOF, but as someone else has mentioned, if Cam Neely is in there, Lindros should definately be in there

Jiri Fischer: BUST.

God I hope you're kidding.....

[eva unit zero 271]

Notable list of busts as per Wikipedia:

1999-Patrick Stefan, Atlanta Thrashers (1st overall)

1999-Pavel Brendl, New York Rangers (4th overall)

1997-Daniel Tkaczuk, Calgary Flames (6th overall)

1996-Alexandre Volchkov, Washington Capitals (4th overall)

1994-Jason Bonsignore, Edmonton Oilers (4th overall)

1993-Alexandre Daigle, Ottawa Senators (1st overall)

1992-Ryan Sittler, Philadelphia Flyers (7th overall)

1991-Pat Falloon, San Jose Sharks (2nd overall)

1989-Dave Chyzowski, New York Islanders (2nd overall)

1987-Bryan Fogarty, Quebec Nordiques (7th overall)

1983-Brian Lawton, Minnesota North Stars (1st overall)

1982-Gord Kluzak, Boston Bruins (1st overall)

1980-Doug Wickenheiser, Montreal Canadiens (1st overall)

1975-Barry Dean, Kansas City Scouts (2nd overall)

1974-Greg Joly, Washington Capitals (1st overall)

Now... Compare Lindros to them, try it.

Daigle doesn't belong on that list, let alone Lindros.

Jiri Fischer: BUST.

Jiri was not a bust...he was developing quite nicely when a heart ailment that couldn't have been predicted effectively ended his career. He was the Wings' best defenseman for much of his final season before his injury.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

nvm

Edited November 9, 2007 by Detroit # 1 Fan

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

I guess, based on your logic, were Sidney Crosby to be killed in a car accident tomorrow, you'd label him a bust based upon the reasons you label Lindros a bust. i.e. no cup, not enough points, didn't live up to Gretzky, etc.....

I'm not asking you to be a sheep. I'm just asking you not to be so ******* dumb. There's a reason why about 90% of the people in this thread think he isn't a bust. It's not because they are sheep. Its because they are smarter than you and aren't holding some personal bias against the player on this issue.

By the way, there are going to be a few players in the years to come that will inevitably always be compared to Gretzky. The fact that there is no high-scoring 80's type of game anymore and the fact that its so hard to be a multiple Cup winner during your career, basically every player for the rest of eternity is going to fall short of Gretzky status. Therefore, by your amazing wisdom (yes, that's sarcasm) we can go ahead and dub them all busts before they even step foot on NHL ice. Nobody is ever going to be the next Gretzky. Just because some sportswriters think a guy will be shouldn't be gospel and shouldn't be held against a player who can't live up to those lofty expectations.

All hail the great GST!! He has spoken and it is now law, and forever shall it be. Asking be to be a sheep is exactly what you are doing. Your exact words "Either you are right, or everyone else in this thread is right." You are saying that I should think Lindros was a phenom simply because you and everyone else seem to. Sorry, I have a brain, I use it, I form my own thoughts and opinions, not just what some sports writer or other people feed me.

I have no personal bias against Lindros. It's my opinion he is a bust. And one of the biggest busts of all time. Why is it always so hard for you to see things from a different point of view? I guess that's just one of the draw backs to having your head so far up your ass.

Lindros is a bust. If you want to compare Lindros and Crosby, fine. Crosby is living up to the hype. In fact, he is blowing it out of the water. Personally, I'm not a Crosby fan, but he is doing things Wayne couldn't do in an era that is much harder to do things in.

If Crosby had a few good years, then fell off the map, I'd be first in line to call him a bust. That is exactly what Lindros did. Regardless if it was because of injuries, or whatever, he just couldn't maintain the pace. No one on this board can say for sure that it was the concussions that caused Lindros' career to stall. It would be a wise educated guess. However, no one knows for sure. He could have pulled a Daige and just not wanted it anymore.

Lindros commanded the attention of a superstar, but he never delivered. 0 cups. 0 scoring titles. He had 2 seasons in which he placed top 10 in scoring. Remeber this was a guy who was supposed to own the league. He never did. B-U-S-T

[Yzerfan1999 81]

If Neely is in the Hall of Fame, Lindros will be too.

[eva unit zero 271]

All hail the great GST!! He has spoken and it is now law, and forever shall it be. Asking be to be a sheep is exactly what you are doing. Your exact words "Either you are right, or everyone else in this thread is right." You are saying that I should think Lindros was a phenom simply because you and everyone else seem to. Sorry, I have a brain, I use it, I form my own thoughts and opinions, not just what some sports writer or other people feed me.

I have no personal bias against Lindros. It's my opinion he is a bust. And one of the biggest busts of all time. Why is it always so hard for you to see things from a different point of view? I guess that's just one of the draw backs to having your head so far up your ass.

Lindros is a bust. If you want to compare Lindros and Crosby, fine. Crosby is living up to the hype. In fact, he is blowing it out of the water. Personally, I'm not a Crosby fan, but he is doing things Wayne couldn't do in an era that is much harder to do things in.

If Crosby had a few good years, then fell off the map, I'd be first in line to call him a bust. That is exactly what Lindros did. Regardless if it was because of injuries, or whatever, he just couldn't maintain the pace. No one on this board can say for sure that it was the concussions that caused Lindros' career to stall. It would be a wise educated guess. However, no one knows for sure. He could have pulled a Daige and just not wanted it anymore.

Lindros commanded the attention of a superstar, but he never delivered. 0 cups. 0 scoring titles. He had 2 seasons in which he placed top 10 in scoring. Remeber this was a guy who was supposed to own the league. He never did. B-U-S-T

Lindros was a Hart trophy winner in his third season...one of only a handful of players to win it so early in his career (Crosby in his second season, Gretzky in his first, Fedorov and Lemieux each in their fourth seasons to name a few) He was not a bust. If you use the fact that he couldn't maintain the level of play for an extended career, then Bobby Orr shouldn't be in the discussion for the greatest defenseman or player ever, because he only played twelve seasons. Same for Kenny Dryden.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Lindros was a Hart trophy winner in his third season...one of only a handful of players to win it so early in his career (Crosby in his second season, Gretzky in his first, Fedorov and Lemieux each in their fourth seasons to name a few) He was not a bust. If you use the fact that he couldn't maintain the level of play for an extended career, then Bobby Orr shouldn't be in the discussion for the greatest defenseman or player ever, because he only played twelve seasons. Same for Kenny Dryden.

Both Orr and Dryden lead their respective teams to multiple Cups. Like it or not, that does make a huge difference. Regardless, both Orr and Dryden were dominate for more than the (at best) 5 years Lindors 'dominated' the NHL.