Dom Bashers Welcome!

[puckloo39 5,686]

Some fans get way too hung up on a goalie and forget there's a team out there too. They also forget about funny stats like skaters score, team does well in playoffs. Skaters fail to score, team does poorly in playoffs. Every year we've had poor playoff outings it's come down far more to the skaters. This is blatantly obvious looking at the stats.

And '02 especially against the Canucks?!?!

It's almost a disgrace to Yzerman. I'm not saying Hasek didn't play well or didn't help, but what turned that series around was Steve Yzerman. The team including Dom wasn't showing up and Yzerman spoke up and set the wheels in motion to turn things around. The team came out and won. Hasek helped, but if you're going to look at anyone stepping up more than anyone else in that series, it's Steve Yzerman.

You know, sometimes I value your opinions and slants as there's no disputing that Hasek has been one of the great goalies of the game, but other times you're just a starry-eyed fan.

I agree that the team wins the Cup. I never said Dom won it for them, or that Nick and Stevie were not instrumental. Stevie did exactly what he was there for, to put some perspective on the situation. Each of them, along with Mac and Igor and Luc and pretty much everyone else, including role players like Duschene and Freddie O., were instrumental somewhere along the way. Of course, the Wings didn't win in 2002 only because Hasek was involved. They didn't win it in spite of him, either. Not anymore than they lost game 6 vs. the Ducks last playoffs because of Dom.

I think fans should try to give credit where it's due, and not dismiss players who were instrumental in winning a series or a game simply because they don't like the player. But that's just me, I guess.

I am a huge fan of Dom's, it's true -- I prefer to be a fan, as opposed to engaging in hatefulness and bashing for the sake of it... so sue me. We will see who shows up and owns up when Hasek returns to form, and who just goes away, I guess. That is what will stop the mindless trash-talk. Not much else will, I think.

[Booster313 138]

Some fans get way too hung up on a goalie and forget there's a team out there too. They also forget about funny stats like skaters score, team does well in playoffs. Skaters fail to score, team does poorly in playoffs. Every year we've had poor playoff outings it's come down far more to the skaters. This is blatantly obvious looking at the stats.

And '02 especially against the Canucks?!?!

It's almost a disgrace to Yzerman. I'm not saying Hasek didn't play well or didn't help, but what turned that series around was Steve Yzerman. The team including Dom wasn't showing up and Yzerman spoke up and set the wheels in motion to turn things around. The team came out and won. Hasek helped, but if you're going to look at anyone stepping up more than anyone else in that series, it's Steve Yzerman.You know, sometimes I value your opinions and slants as there's no disputing that Hasek has been one of the great goalies of the game, but other times you're just a starry-eyed fan.

It's interesting that you mention Yzerman speaking up during the Canucks series. Do you remember what he said? After the Wings went down 0-2 and Dom had let in what some would call a couple of questionable goals, Steve Yzerman all but guaranteed a win and said that before this series was over that everyone would know what a world class goalie Dom is.

[The Noodle 39 14]

idk... ozzie plays pretty well in important games... Can't really say if Oz would or wouldn't be able to handle it in that series... nobody thought he would be playing the pants off of Dom this season either... but looky looky.

Well i would think Ozzie would be able to be somewhat competitive with him this season seeing as Dom's 42 years old. Dom was #1 in net last year with us and if healthy will be again. Ozzie is a great backup and can have all his glory with us next year and beyond if Holland wants that. But this is Dom's last year.. You guys would not be bashing him if we had Dom in his prime! But even at 42 years old he is 20 times better than Ozzie.. he was last year and will be again this year in due time.

[eva unit zero 271]

Kozlov was an underachiever at the time, there is no way that Kenny could have known he would turn around his career. I won't say that Ozzie would or wouldn't have won the cup in 02 or beyond. There is no way that any of us could know. I do know that Ozzie had the opporunity in 99, 00, and 01 and couldn't seem to get us there. Not that he lost those series by himself but he wasn't the difference either. Isn't that what you want from a playoff goalie??? In Dom's two post seasons with us he has stolen games we shouldn't have won.

Ozzie was the Wings' best player in 00 and 01 postseasons. And he was ABSOLUTELY the difference in 99; had Osgood not been injured against Anaheim, the Wings would have won the Cup.

As far as Hasek stealing games in 02? There were two games in that run where the Wings gave up 30+ shots. Both were games against St.Louis that Detroit won in a close game (two of fewer goals difference) despite being outshot. Those are the only games where one could even make the argument that Hasek 'stole' the game. If we use that criteria (Wings outshot, 30+ shots against, won by two goals or less) to determine when a goaltender stole a game, Osgood stole two games vs Dallas (not including his two shutouts that series) as well as stealing Game 4 in the Yotes series and preventing the Wings from falling down 3 games to 1 in the first round.

As far as Dom stealing games last playoff...his W-L record breaks down like so:

30+ shots faced: 1-1

25-29 shots faced: 3-4

20-24 shots faced: 4-2

Under 20 shots faced: 2-1

Wings do not outshoot opponents: 2-2

Ultimately, Hasek did not 'steal' games for the Wings last playoff. The first game against Anaheim is the only game that statistically could be argued as a 'steal' and that must be weighed against the fact that Giguere played the worst against the Wings of the three goaltenders Detroit faced, yet was the only opposing tender to outplay Hasek.

[interminded 1]

Ozzie was the Wings' best player in 00 and 01 postseasons. And he was ABSOLUTELY the difference in 99; had Osgood not been injured against Anaheim, the Wings would have won the Cup.

As far as Hasek stealing games in 02? There were two games in that run where the Wings gave up 30+ shots. Both were games against St.Louis that Detroit won in a close game (two of fewer goals difference) despite being outshot. Those are the only games where one could even make the argument that Hasek 'stole' the game. If we use that criteria (Wings outshot, 30+ shots against, won by two goals or less) to determine when a goaltender stole a game, Osgood stole two games vs Dallas (not including his two shutouts that series) as well as stealing Game 4 in the Yotes series and preventing the Wings from falling down 3 games to 1 in the first round.

As far as Dom stealing games last playoff...his W-L record breaks down like so:

30+ shots faced: 1-1

25-29 shots faced: 3-4

20-24 shots faced: 4-2

Under 20 shots faced: 2-1

Wings do not outshoot opponents: 2-2

Ultimately, Hasek did not 'steal' games for the Wings last playoff. The first game against Anaheim is the only game that statistically could be argued as a 'steal' and that must be weighed against the fact that Giguere played the worst against the Wings of the three goaltenders Detroit faced, yet was the only opposing tender to outplay Hasek.

For someone who is known to be "the master of statistics" you make some bold statements sometimes..

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Ozzie was the Wings' best player in 00 and 01 postseasons. And he was ABSOLUTELY the difference in 99; had Osgood not been injured against Anaheim, the Wings would have won the Cup.

As far as Hasek stealing games in 02? There were two games in that run where the Wings gave up 30+ shots. Both were games against St.Louis that Detroit won in a close game (two of fewer goals difference) despite being outshot. Those are the only games where one could even make the argument that Hasek 'stole' the game. If we use that criteria (Wings outshot, 30+ shots against, won by two goals or less) to determine when a goaltender stole a game, Osgood stole two games vs Dallas (not including his two shutouts that series) as well as stealing Game 4 in the Yotes series and preventing the Wings from falling down 3 games to 1 in the first round.

As far as Dom stealing games last playoff...his W-L record breaks down like so:

30+ shots faced: 1-1

25-29 shots faced: 3-4

20-24 shots faced: 4-2

Under 20 shots faced: 2-1

Wings do not outshoot opponents: 2-2

Ultimately, Hasek did not 'steal' games for the Wings last playoff. The first game against Anaheim is the only game that statistically could be argued as a 'steal' and that must be weighed against the fact that Giguere played the worst against the Wings of the three goaltenders Detroit faced, yet was the only opposing tender to outplay Hasek.

In 1999 the Wings would've won the Cup with 2 rounds even left to be determined after they were eliminated? You know this how? Very strong hypothetcial and "what if" scenarios there.

I think you need to take a step back from your statistical charts for a few minutes as well as your pro-Osgood kool aid.

DISCLAIMER: To all the Osgood fans, no I don't hate Osgood so don't insinutate that as a result of this post.

*Awaits response of over-analyzed statistics that nobody here truly will understand or realy care that badly about if A, B, and C happened and 1, 2, and 3 happened with shots from center ice, the blue line, the faceoff circles, and saves in the early part of the 1st period and middle part of the 3rd period*

Edited November 26, 2007 by SouthernWingsFan

[interminded 1]

DISCLAIMER: To all the Osgood fans, no I don't hate Osgood from this post.

We know.

[Offsides 21]

I just wanted to chime in to say that I didn't read this thread.. nor do I care too.

Just in case anyone was wondering.

Carry on.

Hmm..wow. I for one wasn't

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

Ozzie was the Wings' best player in 00 and 01 postseasons. And he was ABSOLUTELY the difference in 99; had Osgood not been injured against Anaheim, the Wings would have won the Cup.

As far as Hasek stealing games in 02? There were two games in that run where the Wings gave up 30+ shots. Both were games against St.Louis that Detroit won in a close game (two of fewer goals difference) despite being outshot. Those are the only games where one could even make the argument that Hasek 'stole' the game. If we use that criteria (Wings outshot, 30+ shots against, won by two goals or less) to determine when a goaltender stole a game, Osgood stole two games vs Dallas (not including his two shutouts that series) as well as stealing Game 4 in the Yotes series and preventing the Wings from falling down 3 games to 1 in the first round.

As far as Dom stealing games last playoff...his W-L record breaks down like so:

30+ shots faced: 1-1

25-29 shots faced: 3-4

20-24 shots faced: 4-2

Under 20 shots faced: 2-1

Wings do not outshoot opponents: 2-2

Ultimately, Hasek did not 'steal' games for the Wings last playoff. The first game against Anaheim is the only game that statistically could be argued as a 'steal' and that must be weighed against the fact that Giguere played the worst against the Wings of the three goaltenders Detroit faced, yet was the only opposing tender to outplay Hasek.

I'm sorry, how can you simultaniously imply Osgood was the best postseason Wing in 99,00, and 01...yet try to discredit Dom's previous postseason? Since we're going off statistics, Dom's 1.79 GAA is better than anything Osgood has EVER put up in the postseason...it's also hardly Dom's best. And Dom's .923 SV% last playoffs was right there with Osgood's save percentages in the seasons Osgood was in your words "the Wings' best player." Whatever pal. This anti-dom bandwagon is amusing.

[dallas27 7]

I am a huge fan of Dom's, it's true -- I prefer to be a fan, as opposed to engaging in hatefulness and bashing for the sake of it... so sue me. We will see who shows up and owns up when Hasek returns to form, and who just goes away, I guess. That is what will stop the mindless trash-talk. Not much else will, I think.

And that is assuming he does. One of two things has to happen for him. One; he somehow flips a switch and returns to form the next game he plays. Or two; he has to hope that Ozzie really cools off

I'm sorry, how can you simultaniously imply Osgood was the best postseason Wing in 99,00, and 01...yet try to discredit Dom's previous postseason? Since we're going off statistics, Dom's 1.79 GAA is better than anything Osgood has EVER put up in the postseason...it's also hardly Dom's best. And Dom's .923 SV% last playoffs was right there with Osgood's save percentages in the seasons Osgood was in your words "the Wings' best player." Whatever pal. This anti-dom bandwagon is amusing.

GAA means nothing compared to save percentage. GAA is more of a product of the system than the goalie. Save percentage however isn't. That's all on the goalie.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

GAA is more of a product of the system than the goalie. Save percentage however isn't. That's all on the goalie.

Not true. SV% is a result of the system as well. Some teams don't care how many shots on goal the opposition gets as long as they are from low percentage angles or from far out... therefore inflating a goalies %. Our system provides the goalie with little work, but usually when our D slips up it's a big slipup, since we're puck control. Both GAA and SV% are good indicators of a goalie's performance, however both greatly relate to the team and its system.

Even if you were right, it hardly changes my point that if we're considering Osgood a great playoff performer (in the years specified), then how are we considering Dom weak in the playoffs last year when statistically Dom had a much better GAA, nearly the same Save% (.01 and .02 % off 2 of the years, and .10+ above), I think we had a better teams back then too, and...tho this is hardly important (sarcasm) we ultimately got furthur into the playoffs last year than in the other years mentioned... It was also the first time since 2002 (another Dom year) where we didn't play below expectations. Illustrates the existing bias.

Say what you want about Dom's performance thus far, but outlandish statements of him performing poorly in the playoffs are unfounded...especially if using Osgood as some kind of example of playoff stability.

Edited November 26, 2007 by RedWings Gone Wild

[shadow47 1]

idk... ozzie plays pretty well in important games...

It's easy to say that, let's examine:

He hasn't won a playoff series in 7 1/2 years.

Let's look at his most recent late series game performances:

2004 St. Louis vs. San Jose SJ wins series 4-1

Game 4: 20/24 4-3 L

Game 5: 17/20 3-1 L

2003 St. Louis vs. Vancouver VAN wins series 4-2

St. Louis had a 2-1 series edge, then...

Game 4: 30/35 5-3 L

Game 5: 22/26 4-3 L

Game 6: 28/32 4-1 L

2002 NYI vs. Toronto TOR wins series 4-3

Game 5: 11/15 (pulled) 6-3 L

Game 6: 31/34 4-3 W

Game 7: 26/29 4-2 L

2001 Detroit vs. LA LA wins series 4-2

Detroit had 2-0 and 2-1 series edges, then...

Game 4: 27/31 4-3 L/OT

Game 5: 22/25 3-2 L

Game 6: 25/28 3-2 L/OT

2000 Detroit vs. Colorado (second round) COL wins series 4-1

Game 4: 18/21 3-2 L/OT

Game 5: 21/25 4-2 L

1999 Detroit vs. Colorado (second round) COL wins series 4-2

Series tied 2-2, then...

Game 5: 23/26 3-0 L

Game 6: 26/31 5-2 L

1998 won Cup obviously, had some good games and some not so good

1996 Detroit vs. Colorado (third round) COL wins series 4-2

Colorado scores at least 3 goals in all but one game

17/20, 15/19, and 13/16 are examples of Osgood's save totals over the series.

1994 Maybe I'll just ignore this year

Overall, this data would suggest just the opposite of your assertion, and in fact in line with what most hockey people will concur, that Chris Osgood has great regular season numbers, and overall strong numbers in the playoffs, however, when the games are on the line, late in a series, when the team needs a save...it may not be there. He's won a Cup but hasn't done much else.

[shadow47 1]

As far as Hasek stealing games in 02? There were two games in that run where the Wings gave up 30+ shots. Both were games against St.Louis that Detroit won in a close game (two of fewer goals difference) despite being outshot. Those are the only games where one could even make the argument that Hasek 'stole' the game. If we use that criteria (Wings outshot, 30+ shots against, won by two goals or less) to determine when a goaltender stole a game, Osgood stole two games vs Dallas (not including his two shutouts that series) as well as stealing Game 4 in the Yotes series and preventing the Wings from falling down 3 games to 1 in the first round.

As far as Dom stealing games last playoff...his W-L record breaks down like so:

30+ shots faced: 1-1

25-29 shots faced: 3-4

20-24 shots faced: 4-2

Under 20 shots faced: 2-1

Wings do not outshoot opponents: 2-2

Ultimately, Hasek did not 'steal' games for the Wings last playoff. The first game against Anaheim is the only game that statistically could be argued as a 'steal'

You might want to check your stats...you are forgetting DH's 41/43 3OT win in the Finals in your tallying of 30+ shot games. Somewhat convenient I think. As for making an argument about stealing, anyone can invent a trivial criteria for "statistical stealing" and apply it.

If you must use such criteria, you ought to say Osgood only "stole" one game against Dallas after handing them that OT game with the winning goal from the redline. Not sure you can consider a 5-3 win a "stolen win" for the goalkeeper, similarly a 3-2 game with the shots 30-23. You are being pretty loose with your terminology here.

05/24/98: W (60m, 14/14) 2-0 victory at Dallas (Det SOG: 23)

05/26/98: L (59m, 20/22) 1-3 defeat at Dallas (Det SOG: 28)

05/29/98: W (60m, 31/34) 5-3 victory vs. Dallas (Det SOG: 20)

05/31/98: W (60m, 28/30) 3-2 victory vs. Dallas (Det SOG: 23)

06/03/98: L (60m46s, 33/36) 2-3 OT defeat at Dallas (Det SOG: 20)

06/05/98: W (60m, 26/26) 2-0 victory vs. Dallas (Det SOG: 31)

Edit: Osgood wouldn't have had to prevent the Wings from going down 3-1 in that series if he hadn't allowed a Stephane Fiset-like 7 goals on 28 shots in Game 2.

Edited November 26, 2007 by shadow47

[interminded 1]

It's easy to say that, let's examine:

He hasn't won a playoff series in 7 1/2 years.

Let's look at his most recent late series game performances:

2004 St. Louis vs. San Jose SJ wins series 4-1

Game 4: 20/24 4-3 L

Game 5: 17/20 3-1 L

2003 St. Louis vs. Vancouver VAN wins series 4-2

St. Louis had a 2-1 series edge, then...

Game 4: 30/35 5-3 L

Game 5: 22/26 4-3 L

Game 6: 28/32 4-1 L

2002 NYI vs. Toronto TOR wins series 4-3

Game 5: 11/15 (pulled) 6-3 L

Game 6: 31/34 4-3 W

Game 7: 26/29 4-2 L

2001 Detroit vs. LA LA wins series 4-2

Detroit had 2-0 and 2-1 series edges, then...

Game 4: 27/31 4-3 L/OT

Game 5: 22/25 3-2 L

Game 6: 25/28 3-2 L/OT

2000 Detroit vs. Colorado (second round) COL wins series 4-1

Game 4: 18/21 3-2 L/OT

Game 5: 21/25 4-2 L

1999 Detroit vs. Colorado (second round) COL wins series 4-2

Series tied 2-2, then...

Game 5: 23/26 3-0 L

Game 6: 26/31 5-2 L

1998 won Cup obviously, had some good games and some not so good

1996 Detroit vs. Colorado (third round) COL wins series 4-2

Colorado scores at least 3 goals in all but one game

17/20, 15/19, and 13/16 are examples of Osgood's save totals over the series.

1994 Maybe I'll just ignore this year

Overall, this data would suggest just the opposite of your assertion, and in fact in line with what most hockey people will concur, that Chris Osgood has great regular season numbers, and overall strong numbers in the playoffs, however, when the games are on the line, late in a series, when the team needs a save...it may not be there. He's won a Cup but hasn't done much else.

He's won a Cup but hasn't done much else ??

He has two Stanley Cup rings, he plays hockey for the Detroit Red Wings and he his currently the GAA leader among netminders in the NHL.

I would give my left arm for that.

(which would make the goaltending harder though....)

But think what you want to think.

[dallas27 7]

Not true. SV% is a result of the system as well. Some teams don't care how many shots on goal the opposition gets as long as they are from low percentage angles or from far out... therefore inflating a goalies %. Our system provides the goalie with little work, but usually when our D slips up it's a big slipup, since we're puck control. Both GAA and SV% are good indicators of a goalie's performance, however both greatly relate to the team and its system.

Even if you were right, it hardly changes my point that if we're considering Osgood a great playoff performer (in the years specified), then how are we considering Dom weak in the playoffs last year when statistically Dom had a much better GAA, nearly the same Save% (.01 and .02 % off 2 of the years, and .10+ above), I think we had a better teams back then too, and...tho this is hardly important (sarcasm) we ultimately got furthur into the playoffs last year than in the other years mentioned... It was also the first time since 2002 (another Dom year) where we didn't play below expectations. Illustrates the existing bias.

Say what you want about Dom's performance thus far, but outlandish statements of him performing poorly in the playoffs are unfounded...especially if using Osgood as some kind of example of playoff stability.

I was going post links proving that you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to which is the most important stat in terms of goaltending and how the SV% being a product of the system is utterly ridiculous...but it won't change your mind.

[dallas27 7]

I mean was Cujo's play in the 03-04 playoffs (.940 sv%) a product of the system? Hell no, they freaking blew.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

I mean was Cujo's play in the 03-04 playoffs (.940 sv%) a product of the system? Hell no, they freaking blew.

I'm not really sure what ur point is... yea, Cujo played well and our offence sucked so we lost the series... but that doesn't change the fact that over the course of an 82 game season goalies who's team limits an opposing offence to perimiter low-risk shots (yet a plethora of them) will have a higher save percentage than your Osgoods and Haseks who only face the occasional shot that often times requires them to come up big... How can u not see that a team's style of play can highten a goalie's save percentage? Save percentage isn't all on the goalie..

Lets use a hypothetical....Goalie A faces on average 40 perimiter shots a night... Goalie B faces 10 shots a night, all breakaways... Goalie A can let in 4 goals and be at .900... Goalie B has to stop 9 of 10 breakaways to be at the same %..... Yea, it's an extreme example, but look at Grant Fuhr's stats and you'll realize why he rarely hit .900 SV%

[OsGOD 3]

2002 NYI vs. Toronto TOR wins series 4-3

Game 5: 11/15 (pulled) 6-3 L

Yeah i remember that game like it was last year... Horrible effort the Isles put out there... Peca and Johnsson both knocked out of game with series ending injuries... Much like the colorado game after Draper got his face broken... the team just lost it and couldn't do anything right.

[Grittzkey 1]

i just re-watched the draper lemuix thing on youtube yesterday, cuz nhlnetwork got me riled up showing like 3minutes of how the avs wings rivalry came to be. after watching it i relized how bad hasek sucks..

Vernon / Roy - Good Fight

Ozzie / Roy - Good Fight

Hasek / Roy - WDF WAS THAT????

more reasons to hate hasek.. ruining the goalie fight.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

i just re-watched the draper lemuix thing on youtube yesterday, cuz nhlnetwork got me riled up showing like 3minutes of how the avs wings rivalry came to be. after watching it i relized how bad hasek sucks..

Vernon / Roy - Good Fight

Ozzie / Roy - Good Fight

Hasek / Roy - WDF WAS THAT????

more reasons to hate hasek.. ruining the goalie fight.

Vernon owned Roy... Ozzie.. well Ozzie didn't. Judging by how Hasek handles fights in roller hockey leagues, it's probably better he didn't get his hands on Roy or we'd have another black eye for the NHL (and we're already out of eyes).

[dallas27 7]

I'm not really sure what ur point is... yea, Cujo played well and our offence sucked so we lost the series... but that doesn't change the fact that over the course of an 82 game season goalies who's team limits an opposing offence to perimiter low-risk shots (yet a plethora of them) will have a higher save percentage than your Osgoods and Haseks who only face the occasional shot that often times requires them to come up big... How can u not see that a team's style of play can highten a goalie's save percentage? Save percentage isn't all on the goalie..

Lets use a hypothetical....Goalie A faces on average 40 perimiter shots a night... Goalie B faces 10 shots a night, all breakaways... Goalie A can let in 4 goals and be at .900... Goalie B has to stop 9 of 10 breakaways to be at the same %..... Yea, it's an extreme example, but look at Grant Fuhr's stats and you'll realize why he rarely hit .900 SV%

As I said, it's useless. Sure it can buffer it. But it's not a product of the system as you state it is. If it were than throw in your beer league goalie and see what happens.

And hypotheticals are what they are.......hypothetical. If I get my golf handicap down a stroke to a .2 there is no way I can lose in the amateur next year. Hypothetical.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

As I said, it's useless. Sure it can buffer it. But it's not a product of the system as you state it is. If it were than throw in your beer league goalie and see what happens.

And hypotheticals are what they are.......hypothetical. If I get my golf handicap down a stroke to a .2 there is no way I can lose in the amateur next year. Hypothetical.

Good lord, do your knuckles bleed when you walk? I think your only saying debating is useless because you have nothing to say. I'm not saying that you can't stick in a beer league goalie in net and have him rack up a .940 in the NHL (when the f did i say u could?), but he also won't rack up a 2.00 GAA either... So how isn't GAA a good indicator? Personally, I consider SV% a better way of determining who the better goalie is, but it's very much related to the team's system and overall style too. It plays a major role.

[dallas27 7]

Good lord, do your knuckles bleed when you walk? I think your only saying debating is useless because you have nothing to say. I'm not saying that you can't stick in a beer league goalie in net and have him rack up a .940 in the NHL (when the f did i say u could?), but he also won't rack up a 2.00 GAA either... So how isn't GAA a good indicator? Personally, I consider SV% a better way of determining who the better goalie is, but it's very much related to the team's system and overall style too. It plays a major role.

Tell that to Henrik Lundqvist or Tim Thomas or even Biron. All in the top 5 for shots against. If the Rangers didn't have Lundqvist they would not have a shot at anything. When it comes to Detroit sure, how dominant the wings really are will boost any goalies stats, but there are a lot of goalies out there who's teams aren't that great defensively or great period that are doing things that has nothing to do with the system.

[jellytoast 1]

yeah dom retire already, you see we have this other hot and cold washed up goalie working for the same as you... wait his groin my go too.... oh um.... chupz!!!

[Booster313 138]

I came across these aticles and thought it was nice to see something positive in writing about Dom that was from an unbiased source. This just proves that we as fans make more of the goaltending issue than the Wings do. It's ok to have a favorite (I do ) It's also ok to get mad at a goalie when they let in a bad goal. ( I do that too) The bottom line is they are a team, you should want them both to do well.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...047/1048/SPORTS

2. Do the Red Wings have a goalie controversy on their hands?

No. None. Zero. Absolutely not. Is that clear enough?

This scenario reminds me of the Red Wings two years ago. Manny Legace was setting records in the early portion of the season, then got badly outplayed against Edmonton and had a hard time finding a job in hockey the next season. Hasek is the money goaltender and will be the starter in the playoffs assuming he's healthy. There's no debate.

What this does, however do I hope, is wake up the numb-skull Wings fans to the fact that Chris Osgood is and always has been a good goaltender. One writer in Toronto wrote that the Wings won the 1998 cup DESPITE Osgood's play. Please. I'm not saying that Ozzie was a Vezina candidate, but he never got the credit he deserved. I've always felt that Mike Vernon was given too much credit for the '97 Cup and Ozzie was given too little for '98. He's a very good goaltender.

But Hasek is still the man.

And for those of you who think Hasek is a cancer and not a team player, or that he's not humble, this is one of many times in his career when he has acknowledged his less than stellar play and each time he has made good on his promise.

http://redwingscorner.blogspot.com/2007/11...rt-tuesday.html

Dom says he can get better... if they let him

"I know I haven't played well, but I feel very good in practice and I feel healthy and that's most important right now," said Hasek. "I was in at the beginning of the year and I didn't play well. Ozzie played great game a few times, most of the time. Right now, I believe when I get back I can play on the highest level again. Then I can play more games in a row, then I will feel even better. ... I have no problem with it.

"Of course I'll be glad to play more games in a row. It makes it easier for me. But this is the way it is."

Just some need food for thought, and I'm sure so fuel for the fire as well.

P.S. Just thought this warrented a new thread so it wasn't lost on page 137 of the "Dom Bashers" topic. Merge if you like.