12/19 GDT: Red Wings 6, Kings 2

[Grittzkey 1]

the real drake will show during playoff time

bank onnit.. Drake,Downey come Playoffs. I can see Ducks,CBJ,Sharks and Flames crying when they get smacked in the mouth by Double D Squad.

Iam really looking forward to dumping Sammy at trade deadline.. Package him and Lilja for a big physical dman.PLEASE

Edited December 20, 2007 by Grittzkey

[J-Swift 0]

(I don't want to say more or the Dom martyrs may jump in...)

Hater.

Yeah, the second goal was a little soft on Dom, but right now he looks a lot like he did last season (which I think is a good thing). He'll let in a goal or two early on, and then shut it down when we need him to.

And I thought Draper looked pretty good in his first game back. With him in the lineup I think we roll four lines as good as anyone in the league.

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

I was very glad to hear Ken Daniels and Mickey Redmond tonight on nhl network. I usually don't get to hear the commentary too much, it was quite nice

[Third Man In 2,091]

Just got back from the game. Does anyone know if it was a sellout tonite? There were more people there tonite than most the games I've been to when the sellout streak was still alive.

Not according to NHL.com, which lists the attendance as 0.

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?service=page&am...&gameType=2

[ben_usmc 253]

I wouldn't trade Lilja or Sammy unless I was getting someone of great value, because on any other team they could possibly move up lines. It seems wings fans are the most ungrateful.

[55fan 5,133]

Yay, Kronner! Yay, Dom! Yay, Wings!

I fully realize that this post was nothing but drivel, but I had to get it off my chest. Thank you.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Thoughts on the game:

1. Kronwall was great. Was given credit for only 2 SOG but it seemed as though he put up at least 5. 4 assists; I didn't even know he was capable of that production on one game! Please keep it up Kronners.

2. Dats, Hank and Homer= best line in hockey. All played well. No one weaves through traffic like Datsyuk.

3. Filppula and Hudler each scored their 8th goals. They're both on track for about 20 goals, wouldn't that be great production from 23/24 year olds? Both will be tremendous hockey players.

4. How good was Lidstrom's play on Zetterberg's goal? Unbelievable stuff.

5. I REALLY like Kopecky. Thought he used his body well and it's also very hard to take the puck from. He's also very quick. Great game from him, and the rest of the 4th line.

6. I thought it was a case of 'all played well' last night but with one exception, Samuelsson. He was hopeless.

7. Wings are too good.

Edited December 20, 2007 by Aussie_Wing

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I wouldn't trade Lilja or Sammy unless I was getting someone of great value, because on any other team they could possibly move up lines. It seems wings fans are the most ungrateful.

I think Wings fans are too harsh on Lilja, but Sammy is fair game if you ask me. Lilja has greatly improved his play ever since February of last season, but Sammy continues to make poor shot decisions. I'm all for a putting the puck on net and nabbing garbage, seeing as thats the way to score come playoff time, but I don't see the logic behind Sammy's shot target.

For example, when a player is crashing the net he mostly puts the puck up high giving the goalie ample opportunity to freeze the play with a glove save or he rips it off the goalie's chest (who then corrals the puck before it ever comes close to rebounding on the ice level). When no one whatsoever is in front of the net he tends to shoot low which gives the goalie all the opportunity in the world to make a comfortable butterfly style save without much chance of the puck finding the back of the net. Those are the types of mental mistakes I see with Sammy. If he's going to shoot the puck *on net* 3+ times per game (like he has been--30 GP, 95 SOG, 3 Goals, 3.167 Score/Shot % :nonono: ) he needs to make them count. He needs to choose those higher percentage SOG's based on the players that are either around the goal (low shot) or not (high shot: 1-foot+ off the ground--most of the time, but not always). That will not only most likely increase his Score/Shot %, but it will create more goals off rebounds when the opportunity presents itself.

[lfd250 1]

I too was at the game, seem to get a bit boring there for a while when the wings went to the 1 4 defense. Also for the second game in a row Dom was clueless on where the puck was at times. It might just be a case of lack of work and him getting board and then all of a sudden he has to stand on his head for a save. Have to watch our penalties, Cleary was a retaleation penalty, he just needs to pick his spots.

No sell out at the Joe, but it was good to see more people there. Although I'm not sure why people think Michigans economy is bad, I have $54 seats and the four people in front of me and 4 behind me left with 15 min to go in the third. Yes, it was 6-2 by then, but come on.

[ben_usmc 253]

I think Wings fans are too harsh on Lilja, but Sammy is fair game if you ask me. Lilja has greatly improved his play ever since February of last season, but Sammy continues to make poor shot decisions. I'm all for a putting the puck on net and nabbing garbage, seeing as thats the way to score come playoff time, but I don't see the logic behind Sammy's shot target.

For example, when a player is crashing the net he mostly puts the puck up high giving the goalie ample opportunity to freeze the play with a glove save or he rips it off the goalie's chest (who then corrals the puck before it ever comes close to rebounding on the ice level). When no one whatsoever is in front of the net he tends to shoot low which gives the goalie all the opportunity in the world to make a comfortable butterfly style save without much chance of the puck finding the back of the net. Those are the types of mental mistakes I see with Sammy. If he's going to shoot the puck *on net* 3+ times per game (like he has been--30 GP, 95 SOG, 3 Goals, 3.167 Score/Shot % :nonono: ) he needs to make them count. He needs to choose those higher percentage SOG's based on the players that are either around the goal (low shot) or not (high shot: 1-foot+ off the ground--most of the time, but not always). That will not only most likely increase his Score/Shot %, but it will create more goals off rebounds when the opportunity presents itself.

Don't get me wrong I don't think Sammy is great or anything, but as a wings fan you should know he is very streaky. Sammy is probably my most disliked Wing but people on here need to cut him some slack, he's not going to produce moves or decisions of Zetta or Dats, he does what he is paid for though a midlevel player. Once again I would only trade him for something of much better value because he may just be a roleplayer here but at other teams he would be much more important.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Don't get me wrong I don't think Sammy is great or anything, but as a wings fan you should know he is very streaky. Sammy is probably my most disliked Wing but people on here need to cut him some slack, he's not going to produce moves or decisions of Zetta or Dats, he does what he is paid for though a midlevel player. Once again I would only trade him for something of much better value because he may just be a roleplayer here but at other teams he would be much more important.

I do agree with this actually, but whether you're paid $500,000 or $5 million per season, you still need to use the fundamentals of high versus low percentage shots to give your team the best opportunity to score. Regardless of his pay, there's absolutely no excuse for a player at the NHL level to not know this. Hell, this was engraved in me in PeeWee. This has nothing to do with being streaky (which I know he is) or level of player he is.

Edit: (Kelsey) Grammar

Sidenote: Can you believe Z gets away with punching one of the Kings in the face right after a Wings goal?

Edited December 20, 2007 by Never Forget Mac #25

[puckloo39 5,686]

I too was at the game, seem to get a bit boring there for a while when the wings went to the 1 4 defense. Also for the second game in a row Dom was clueless on where the puck was at times. It might just be a case of lack of work and him getting board and then all of a sudden he has to stand on his head for a save. Have to watch our penalties, Cleary was a retaleation penalty, he just needs to pick his spots.

My comments are not aimed at you, lfd, you saw what you saw. Just borrowing from you as a springboard.

Dom seemed to have a pretty good clue where the puck was 18 times, including point blank saves on several attempts and when he stopped Kopitar on an odd man rush. He did the same against Ovechkin in the last game. He let in two (OMG) goals, one on a shot screened by his own defenseman and the other, which he probably should have had, off a lost faceoff. I only saw highlights, thanks to NHLN swiping the game off CI, but I did see various highlights of both LAK goals as well as a couple of stellar stops Dom made to keep the momentum. 6 goals against poor LaBarbera helped the 'momentum,' too, obviously. I was gald to see the goal support for Hasek, btw.

They do need to watch the ill-timed penalties. The first goal was courtesy of Franzen taking a hooking call with less than 2 minutes left (I have no idea if it was justified). I hate those last minute goals more than anything (unless we are the ones scoring, then I love them). Good for the Kings for capitalizing on that situation.

[Guest MrSandMan]

I thought Dom played great in both games! Yeah we can nit-pik one goal that he'd probably like to have back... In retro-respect, I've watched several games where Ozzie let in goals that he'd probably like back. That's hockey.

I'm thankful we have THE DOM and a the best back up goalie in the league. We're very fortunate to say the least! LAK can't even find a stable goalie, let alone two of the best in the League.

Detroit Rock City, baby!!!!

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I thought Dom played great in both games! Yeah we can nit-pik one goal that he'd probably like to have back... In retro-respect, I've watched several games where Ozzie let in goals that he'd probably like back. That's hockey.

I'm thankful we have THE DOM and a the best back up goalie in the league. We're very fortunate to say the least! LAK can't even find a stable goalie, let alone two of the best in the League.

Detroit Rock City, baby!!!!

I realize you saying we have the best backup in the league is a shot at Ozzy. If the names on the back of the jersey were different, Ozzy would be the clear starter. It wouldn't even be close.

It's not nitpicking. It's an unscreened wrist shot from a very low percentage spot. That's a softie for an NHL goalie, especially Dom. I don't know if his positioning is a little off, or his glove hand is slow or what. And I really don't understand how the same people who think he's great simultaneously have such low standards for him.

We dont' have two of the best goalies in the league. We have Osgood, who leads the league in GAA and is 2nd in save percentage w, so he is actually playing among the best in the league. And then we have Hasek, who is 43rd (last) in the league with a .882 SV % and 18th in GAA with 2.49. So Hasek is actually among the worst in the league.

It's the name on the back of his jersey that makes it seem like he's a great goalie right now. But so far this season he has gone from awful to decent. I have only seen glimpses of the Dominator.

There's still plenty of time left for him to get it together. I just think he started off so poorly that expectations are pretty low and people are saying he's back, when in my opinion he's still not looking himself.

I think Wings fans are too harsh on Lilja, but Sammy is fair game if you ask me. Lilja has greatly improved his play ever since February of last season, but Sammy continues to make poor shot decisions. I'm all for a putting the puck on net and nabbing garbage, seeing as thats the way to score come playoff time, but I don't see the logic behind Sammy's shot target.

For example, when a player is crashing the net he mostly puts the puck up high giving the goalie ample opportunity to freeze the play with a glove save or he rips it off the goalie's chest (who then corrals the puck before it ever comes close to rebounding on the ice level). When no one whatsoever is in front of the net he tends to shoot low which gives the goalie all the opportunity in the world to make a comfortable butterfly style save without much chance of the puck finding the back of the net. Those are the types of mental mistakes I see with Sammy. If he's going to shoot the puck *on net* 3+ times per game (like he has been--30 GP, 95 SOG, 3 Goals, 3.167 Score/Shot % :nonono: ) he needs to make them count. He needs to choose those higher percentage SOG's based on the players that are either around the goal (low shot) or not (high shot: 1-foot+ off the ground--most of the time, but not always). That will not only most likely increase his Score/Shot %, but it will create more goals off rebounds when the opportunity presents itself.

Great post.

I rarely bash Sammy because he takes so much crap here as it is, but my patience has worn thin with him this season, for a lot of the reasons you listed above.

For the ice time he gets and his role on the team, 3 goals is a disappointment. He really needs to pick it up in the second half of the season.

[wingnut40 176]

I think if we really want to we could get like 6 goals or so. We've been scoring 5 alot and Dom's been playing a lot better. So why not?

Ok, who called it? I win!

Sidenote: Can you believe Z gets away with punching one of the Kings in the face right after a Wings goal?

OMG, I thought the same thing!! I saw the pic on the home page and thought it looked like he was punching him. Glad someone else noticed it too.

Edited December 20, 2007 by wingnut40

[Guest MrSandMan]

I realize you saying we have the best backup in the league is a shot at Ozzy. If the names on the back of the jersey were different, Ozzy would be the clear starter. It wouldn't even be close.

It's not nitpicking. It's an unscreened wrist shot from a very low percentage spot. That's a softie for an NHL goalie, especially Dom. I don't know if his positioning is a little off, or his glove hand is slow or what. And I really don't understand how the same people who think he's great simultaneously have such low standards for him.

We dont' have two of the best goalies in the league. We have Osgood, who leads the league in GAA and is 2nd in save percentage w, so he is actually playing among the best in the league. And then we have Hasek, who is 43rd (last) in the league with a .882 SV % and 18th in GAA with 2.49. So Hasek is actually among the worst in the league.

It's the name on the back of his jersey that makes it seem like he's a great goalie right now. But so far this season he has gone from awful to decent. I have only seen glimpses of the Dominator.

I repectfully disagree with pretty much everything in this post ^^^

First I must say I'm not bashing any player in a Wings Wheel.....

It's not anything to do with the name on their back, it's the fact that Hasek is a proven goalie who's won a cup and taken us to the western cup finals in only a short time as a Wing. Pre-Hasek (2002) I recall everyone calling for Ozzie's head year in and year out for being a playoff choke artist.

I can also bring up recent (*COUGH blue line *COUGH) softies that Ozzy recently gave up. One comes to mind that was worse than Hasek's last night. But guess what, we still pulled out a "W" even after Ozzies Softie.

Just like last night, Hasek still came up big a few times and it was refreshing to watch.

Another thing I notice about this board, is people call for Hasek's head every year because he sucks early in the year. Guess what, he always comes through and has no problems leading us to the cup or taking us to the Western Finals.

Hasek is one of the best goalies in the League. Maybe not this year, but overall stats from through-out his career.

Hasek is our playoff goalie. Ozzie, proven from past playoff years, is a choke artist. That's why he isn't #1. I'm not disrespect to Ozzy, I'm just speaking facts. Another fact is Hasek isn't the true "Dominator" until post-season. He's a proven slow starter.

EDIT to add: Why do we need to come 20+ points over everyone else? We're still going to be first place through-out the league. Why not give some work to our playoff goalie and get him ready for a long post-season?

Edited December 20, 2007 by MrSandMan

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I repectfully disagree with pretty much everything in this post ^^^

First I must say I'm not bashing any player in a Wings Wheel.....

It's not anything to do with the name on their back, it's the fact that Hasek is a proven goalie who's won a cup and taken us to the western cup finals in only a short time as a Wing. Pre-Hasek (2002) I recall everyone calling for Ozzie's head year in and year out for being a playoff choke artist.

I can also bring up recent (*COUGH blue line *COUGH) softies that Ozzy recently gave up. One comes to mind that was worse than Hasek's last night. But guess what, we still pulled out a "W" even after Ozzies Softie.

Just like last night, Hasek still came up big a few times and it was refreshing to watch.

Another thing I notice about this board, is people call for Hasek's head every year because he sucks early in the year. Guess what, he always comes through and has no problems leading us to the cup or taking us to the Western Finals.

Hasek is one of the best goalies in the League. Maybe not this year, but overall stats from through-out his career.

Hasek is our playoff goalie. Ozzie, proven from past playoff years, is a choke artist. That's why he isn't #1. I'm not disrespect to Ozzy, I'm just speaking facts. Another fact is Hasek isn't the true "Dominator" until post-season. He's a proven slow starter.

EDIT to add: Why do we need to come 20+ points over everyone else? We're still going to be first place through-out the league. Why not give some work to our playoff goalie and get him ready for a long post-season?

Last I checked the score for Stanley Cups between Ozzie and Dom was 1-1.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I repectfully disagree with pretty much everything in this post ^^^

First I must say I'm not bashing any player in a Wings Wheel.....

It's not anything to do with the name on their back, it's the fact that Hasek is a proven goalie who's won a cup and taken us to the western cup finals in only a short time as a Wing. Pre-Hasek (2002) I recall everyone calling for Ozzie's head year in and year out for being a playoff choke artist.

I can also bring up recent (*COUGH blue line *COUGH) softies that Ozzy recently gave up. One comes to mind that was worse than Hasek's last night. But guess what, we still pulled out a "W" even after Ozzies Softie.

Just like last night, Hasek still came up big a few times and it was refreshing to watch.

Another thing I notice about this board, is people call for Hasek's head every year because he sucks early in the year. Guess what, he always comes through and has no problems leading us to the cup or taking us to the Western Finals.

Hasek is one of the best goalies in the League. Maybe not this year, but overall stats from through-out his career.

Hasek is our playoff goalie. Ozzie, proven from past playoff years, is a choke artist. That's why he isn't #1. I'm not disrespect to Ozzy, I'm just speaking facts. Another fact is Hasek isn't the true "Dominator" until post-season. He's a proven slow starter.

EDIT to add: Why do we need to come 20+ points over everyone else? We're still going to be first place through-out the league. Why not give some work to our playoff goalie and get him ready for a long post-season?

So you're basing your opinion of the goaltenders on performances from the past. Got it.

Meanwhile, I'm making an assessment of how they're playing right now.

I'm so tired of this "slow starter" crap. Yes, he may be a slow starter, but him starting this poorly is unprecedented since he became a starting goaltender. This goes beyond a slow start. If you want to talk facts, he's played 17 games and is the absolute worst among 43 goaltenders in save percentage. You seriously are saying that's a typical slow start for Dom??? I've never seen him start this poorly.

As I said, Hasek can still come around. He's just not there yet. Of the goals he's let in that were questionable, I think a few have been similar to the softie last night. Which is why I wondered if his positioning was just a little off, or his glove hand was getting slow or something. Every goalie lets in bad ones. But this season obviously Hasek has let in more than his fair share.

At the peak of both of their abilities, I think Hasek is a superior goaltender to Osgood. But Hasek hasn't been anywhere near the peak of his ability this season. He wasn't even last year, though he was very good. He still wasn't the Dominator. Meanwhile Ozzy is playing perhaps the best hockey of his career.

Ugh. I didn't mean to get dragged into another goalie war, but calling Ozzy the backup is a joke. Wouldn't the backup normally start against a crappy team like L.A.? Everyone's just waiting to see if Hasek can get his act back together and maybe he will, but if it were anyone else, they'd be riding the pine.

ps, you might want to check the definition of facts.

Chris Osgood - .929 Sv % (#2 out of 43) = FACT

Dominik Hasek - .882 Sv % (#43 out of 43) = FACT

EDIT: Though I do agree that because the Wings are playing so well, it makes sense to start Hasek against a team like L.A. so he can get his game back together while starting Ozzy against the more competitive Blues.

Edited December 20, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

Why can't Wings fan like whoever is in net........ I love Ozzie, I love Hasek. We should be thankful that we have two goalies that can be number ones.

edit - two, not to

Edited December 20, 2007 by Mudvayneowns91

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

So you're basing your opinion of the goaltenders on performances from the past. Got it.

Meanwhile, I'm making an assessment of how they're playing right now.

I'm so tired of this "slow starter" crap. Yes, he may be a slow starter, but him starting this poorly is unprecedented since he became a starting goaltender. This goes beyond a slow start. If you want to talk facts, he's played 17 games and is the absolute worst among 43 goaltenders in save percentage. You seriously are saying that's a typical slow start for Dom??? I've never seen him start this poorly.

As I said, Hasek can still come around. He's just not there yet. Of the goals he's let in that were questionable, I think a few have been similar to the softie last night. Which is why I wondered if his positioning was just a little off, or his glove hand was getting slow or something. Every goalie lets in bad ones. But this season obviously Hasek has let in more than his fair share.

At the peak of both of their abilities, I think Hasek is a superior goaltender to Osgood. But Hasek hasn't been anywhere near the peak of his ability this season. He wasn't even last year, though he was very good. He still wasn't the Dominator. Meanwhile Ozzy is playing perhaps the best hockey of his career.

Ugh. I didn't mean to get dragged into another goalie war, but calling Ozzy the backup is a joke. Wouldn't the backup normally start against a crappy team like L.A.? Everyone's just waiting to see if Hasek can get his act back together and maybe he will, but if it were anyone else, they'd be riding the pine.

ps, you might want to check the definition of facts.

Chris Osgood - .929 Sv % (#2 out of 43) = FACT

Dominik Hasek - .882 Sv % (#43 out of 43) = FACT

EDIT: Though I do agree that because the Wings are playing so well, it makes sense to start Hasek against a team like L.A. so he can get his game back together while starting Ozzy against the more competitive Blues.

Game. Set. Match.

Why can't Wings fan like whoever is in net........ I love Ozzie, I love Hasek. We should be thankful that we have to goalies that can be number ones.

That's the thing though, right *now* we have a clear cut goalie that is playing like a number one and another that is just starting to become average so far this season.

The numbers prove that.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Why can't Wings fan like whoever is in net........ I love Ozzie, I love Hasek. We should be thankful that we have two goalies that can be number ones.

edit - two, not to

I made the mistake of saying Dom made big saves but is still showing some consistency problems with that wrister from the top of the faceoff circle.

I wish you could actually talk about goaltending a little here without it becoming a war.

But I should know better.

[Packer487 3]

It's the name on the back of his jersey that makes it seem like he's a great goalie right now. But so far this season he has gone from awful to decent. I have only seen glimpses of the Dominator.

There's still plenty of time left for him to get it together. I just think he started off so poorly that expectations are pretty low and people are saying he's back, when in my opinion he's still not looking himself.

Great post.

Psst. In his last 6 games, he's 5-0-1 with a 1.78 gaa and a .913 save percentage and 1 shutout. He's coming around.

Over the last 6 games for Osgood, he too is 5-0-1, with a 1.97 gaa and a .927 save percentage.

And before I get the "Who has Dom played' argument that I know is coming from someone: Yes he played LA and Washington, who are the two worst teams in the league, but he also faced Carolina (T-2 in the East), Minnesota (T-3 in the West, T-4th in the league), and Montreal who is in the playoffs as the 6 seed in the East, 2 points out of second.

Osgood has had 5 of the 9 worst teams in the league over that span, plus Calgary, who would be in the playoffs (and would be tied with the likes of Carolina in the East).

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that both our goalies are pretty goddamn good.

The second goal last night sucked, but Hasek played just fine. Absolutely no chance on the first goal, stopped a breakaway early on, and had a few other really good saves.

You can't completely ignore past history when discussing these guys. Yes, if Dom was a rookie he would be on the bench given how well Osgood has played. But he's arguably the best to ever play the game. He's more than earned the right to play through his troubles. And he's been just fine over the past six games, no matter how much people may want to say otherwise.

I just think it's funny that people are convinced that a goalie can't improve throughout the season. Osgood sucked for a year and a half before he turned it on around the midpoint of last season, and he's been great this year.

[Guest MrSandMan]

Last I checked the score for Stanley Cups between Ozzie and Dom was 1-1.

Last I checked Ozzie was was on a competitive team (Wings) for 10 seasons. While only has 1 cup to show for it... and about 3-4 playoff chokes, constantly.

While THE DOM was on a competitive team (Wings) 3 seasons. And already has 1 cup to show for it with ZERO playoff chokes.

Who is the number one? Hasek hands down... as it should be.

Edited December 20, 2007 by MrSandMan

[wingslogo19 281]

I guess some people are forgetting how lucky we are to have pretty much 2 #1 goalies that are playing well right now.. Like Babs said in his interview on the TSN feed, Dom will be the starter come playoff time

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

That's the thing though, right *now* we have a clear cut goalie that is playing like a number one and another that is just starting to become average so far this season.

The numbers prove that.

Yeah, I agree Ozzie is playing better. But Dom lately has been playing better to some degree. His last 6 games he's 5-0-1 although I'd like is gaa to be better. I think what I was trying to say more than anything would be that Wings fans should support whoever is in net because you're not going to see a 75-25% ratio between the two

Edited December 20, 2007 by Mudvayneowns91