Why Osgood can't start in the playoffs

[timothy1997 0]

the thing people tend to forget about is how great it is to have a goalie controversy where 2 goalies have not only a great resume, but are playing well. Hasek entered the season as the #1 goalie, is paid as a #1 goalie, and hard to convince anyone that he cant lead a NHL team to the cup. Hasek is #1 goalie until he plays out of the #1 slot or injury. Osgood can be right there to pick up the pieces if Hasek is unable to. This only makes sense. Champaigne from the cup still tastes the same regardless of who leads the team.

Edited January 31, 2008 by timothy1997

[dallas27 7]

Some people think he's been "lucky" for the past 15 years. :rotflmao: <<< Dom, rolling around in the crease, or me, laughing? Take your pick!!

Luck plays a huge part when Dom starts throwing whatever he can around when he is scrambling to make another save. That's his method to his madness. Nobody else will ever be able to do what Dom does, you can't teach it. What's that saying though, "would rather be lucky than good." Obviously Hasek is both but you get the point.

[Packer487 3]

Luck plays a huge part when Dom starts throwing whatever he can around when he is scrambling to make another save. That's his method to his madness. Nobody else will ever be able to do what Dom does, you can't teach it. What's that saying though, "would rather be lucky than good." Obviously Hasek is both but you get the point.

Then Dom is the luckiest fricken person on the planet. You don't win as many games as he's won and have the career he's had based largely on luck. Unconventional? Sure. But it's not a coincidence (or luck) that he has so many pucks hit him...

[dallas27 7]

Then Dom is the luckiest fricken person on the planet. You don't win as many games as he's won and have the career he's had based largely on luck. Unconventional? Sure. But it's not a coincidence (or luck) that he has so many pucks hit him...

His whole game isn't luck. When he starts flopping on the ice like a fish and at the last minute throws his leg out to make the save luck is involved. He's in no position to stop that puck. I mean, I wouldn't know, or the goalie coach I had for 15 years wouldn't know either. When he is saving 2-3 shots in a row purely by throwing his body around WHEN HE DOESN'T EVEN KNOW WHERE THE PUCK IS how is luck not involved?

I wouldn't even classify his style as unconventional, he has his own style. It's the Hasek style. Like I said, nobody is ever going to be able to do what he does. And by no means do I mean that in a bad way, he's clearly one of the best to play the game.

[kylee 727]

rotate 'em

[Packer487 3]

His whole game isn't luck. When he starts flopping on the ice like a fish and at the last minute throws his leg out to make the save luck is involved. He's in no position to stop that puck. I mean, I wouldn't know, or the goalie coach I had for 15 years wouldn't know either. When he is saving 2-3 shots in a row purely by throwing his body around WHEN HE DOESN'T EVEN KNOW WHERE THE PUCK IS how is luck not involved?

Again, if it's luck, then he's the luckiest man on the planet because he's been having success playing that way for 15 years.

The only thing that he's lucky about is that teams haven't realized that all you have to do is shoot it over top of him, since you'd score every time, as someone else said in this thread.

It's truly amazing that he ever makes a save....

[puckloo39 5,686]

His whole game isn't luck. When he starts flopping on the ice like a fish and at the last minute throws his leg out to make the save luck is involved. He's in no position to stop that puck. I mean, I wouldn't know, or the goalie coach I had for 15 years wouldn't know either. When he is saving 2-3 shots in a row purely by throwing his body around WHEN HE DOESN'T EVEN KNOW WHERE THE PUCK IS how is luck not involved?

I wouldn't even classify his style as unconventional, he has his own style. It's the Hasek style. Like I said, nobody is ever going to be able to do what he does. And by no means do I mean that in a bad way, he's clearly one of the best to play the game.

Dallas, sometimes you seem to be criticizing Dom, but I think you actually are not. Thanks for the clarification above in your post.

Dom's style is all part of the wonderful mystery that is Hasek, and why some of us love him so much. Call it luck, call it other-worldly instinct... call it whatever. I am not sure Dom himself knows exactly how he does what he does. But much of the apparent randomness about his style is actually very calculated, if you have watched him for long. Those who had a cow over the sliding tackle on Gaborik have not seen Hasek play much, apparently. It's not a new move or something he just thought up. Click the link under my sig for some examples of the same move, back to 1990 when he was a Blackhawk. He was probably doing it before then, in Europe, I suspect.

I've seen analyses of Dom where "experts" would directly contradict one another, one saying he is constantly out of position and another, that he is actually almost always in position --just not in any classic stance or fashion that has a name in the NHL.

You either have what Dom has, or you don't - it can't be taught. There will never be another one like him -- that is for certain.

The cool thing: Dom can win games with his style, and Ozzie, while a very different goalie in a lot of ways, wins them in his own way. I have noticed that this season, Oz is stacking the pads, making spectacular diving saves, tossing in the odd death-roll here and there, and yes, even tossing down the goalie stick on occasion.

Wonder who he's been hanging around?

[Kp-Wings 3]

no kidding. how many times will we do this before the playoffs?

It's either that, Samuelsson bashing, or discussing the need for grit. Take your pick.

Personally, I prefer the ladder two choices, since those are both discussions I love to be a part of...

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Some people think he's been "lucky" for the past 15 years. :rotflmao: <<< Dom, rolling around in the crease, or me, laughing? Take your pick!!

** This is me being sarcastic, Pack, and agreeing with you on all your points above**

Hasek didn't lose the Cup for the Wings last playoffs, far from it. Fact: the Wings got to the third round for the first time since 2002 with Dom in net.

Coincidence? Nope.

The Wings played a better all-around game last post season. Was Dom part of the reason the Wings made it as far as they did? Yes. Was the rest of the team just as responsible for their long run? Yes.

It's purely reciprocal.

Scoring is the #1 issue we have in the Playoffs and the #1 item that determines how far we go... We forget how to light the lamp past April 8th. without scoring no wins no matter WHO is in net.

Scoring is always down in the post season . It's got to be a healthy balance. In order for teams to move on in the playoffs, a goalie needs a better SV% and GAA than they had in the regular season, and the rest of the team has to chip in with timely goals. It's not one or the other....its a combination of both. The teams that win the Cup are the ones that are able to accomplish this.

Edited January 31, 2008 by Never Forget Mac #25

[gcom007 1,465]

If Hasek's play doesn't diminish he'll end up starting though Osgood will likely end with better stats. It's somewhat unfortunate for the Osgood fan however I think Osgood would be the first to tell you that he understands. If they both continue to play like this, I don't think there'll be issues. They're both playing at a high enough level for this team to win if we can light the lamp up. Manny's the only goalie that's stunk it up for us in the playoffs and been as big of a part of the loss as anyone in the last 15 years. Every other year the skaters have lost it by not scoring while the goaltenders played well enough to win if not simply excellent.

That said, I still feel there is an argument for Osgood starting this year over Hasek in the name of consistent play. I readily agree that Hasek has picked up his game as the year has gone on, however, I still don't feel he is as steady of a goalie as Osgood at this stage in his career. He might play great at a higher level than Osgood when he's on but he seems a lot more likely to be off and last year he had an off night at the absolute worst point in time. Given that Osgood can play at an extremely high level with utmost consistency, there is reason to believe that Osgood might be the more valuable playoff starter. Given Hasek's age, I don't feel that's a knock on him at all. He's accomplished a ton in his career and deserves all the accolades he gets, however, there comes a time where everyone loses a step. Despite improved play, I personally still feel more comfortable with the idea of Osgood starting.

But as has been said, who really cares at this point? It's all just conjecture for the most part. It's not even February for a few more hours...

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

you are exactly correct, sir. Either goalie is capable of winning, if the team is on target as well.

Again I will stress, even though tandems are generally frowned upon in the playoffs, I will take great enjoyment if both Hasek and Osgood continue to play around a high level into the playoffs, and both goaltenders play and have a large share in helping this team go deep in the playoffs and hopefully win the Cup, even though that's probably not realistic to think as tandems are generally frowned upon.

Unless the play of one of the goalies just completely falls in the crapper, which I am not counting on, play them both roughly a same amount of games. They are both doing splendid so why change anything?

The only controversies with this are drawn up by the fans or the ones who either just dislike Hasek/his playing styles or who just still cannot trust Osgood for whatever reasons because of OMG SOFT GOALS FROM THE BLUELINE or whatever else.

Hasek and Osgood, judging by their working relationship it seems, could really care less (or that badly) to make the other look bad or start controversy or just say "I'm going to do anything it takes to be the absolute #1 guy and if the other goalie doesn't get it, that's his tough s**t! becuase I should be the #1 guy without question!"

:goalie1: Osgood + :goalie2: Hasek = an awesome goalie tandem and a really good chance at winning the

And for everybody's enjoyment even though we've probably seen this 6 or 700 times, look who is famous enough to make StupidVideos.com.

http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/sports/G...to_space/#49520

[Naslund19 0]

because it's a discussion board, and as long as people keep posting on a topic, it means they want to talk about it. and if people post just to *****, they're only encouraging discussion on a topic they're annoyed with. no one made you click on this thread.

anyway, i wanted to point out this quote: "I can guaran-damn-tee you that no more than a small handful of NHLers have ever stared down into the Wings net on game night and thought to themselves ‘Damn. That’s Chris-*******-Osgood in net. How’re we gonna score tonight?’ "

i see the point he's making, but i'm just not sure how true it is. i don't know if people are really intimidated by him anymore. dom may be capable of making good saves now, but all you have to do is top shelf a rebound and you will score almost every time. people watch tape, and not just old tape -- film from this and last year where hasek does the alligator death roll after making the first save and lays there in the net. i'm not saying he's terrible, and i do think that he has a lot more league-wide name recognition than osgood. i'm just not sure if that name inspires fear the same way that it used to.

I realize that nobody made me click this thread, but take a minute and look at when you joined, and when I joined. I've seen these threads a half a million times. It's been discussed. I took a break then came back and then I just thought it was funny that this was still a discussion, that's all.

Once again, I'm standing by my original post -- there's still some hockey to be played. When the playoffs roll around, Babcock will most likely ride the hotter goaltender. I have confidence in both of them, so really, I don't care who starts.

[KrazyGangsta 79]

I dont see a big debate concerning that hasek isnt have a bad season ... he does have 3 SO just like osgood ... his save percentage is .908 i i think its gaa is 2.12 like if you check stats dom does also have less shots and saves but their pretty damn close ... so can someone tell me why would anyone choose osgood over hasek ...

i do love osgood and i do hope he plays next 2 season our starters and i really do think he can get us the cup but i still do think that overall hasek is still the better goalie no matter what circomstance ...

[Earthhuman 8]

At some point you have to see that, no matter who is playing better and no matter who has more history, Hasek came back to this team to go to the playoffs and to win the cup. I firmly believe he will get better throughout the year, like Babcock says. That's just how older players are. You just can't snub him like that, because he would not understand, like Ozzie would.

On the other hand, Ozzie just stole his second game of the season (and how) on a team that never needs a game stolen for them. He has been spectacular all year. He has come through against the big, bad teams. This is the best Ozzie will ever be. If he played 60+ games this season, he would win the Vezina, but given the circumstances, he will play 35-40 and wont be awarded.

Therefore, rotate. It will be better for them as that is what the season has prepared them for.

Oh, and one comment on Hasek. If his snow angel saves are luck, then you need to lace up the skates. Try putting the puck top shelf with an inch and a half to work with. I can think of two players that can do it off the top of my head, Crosby and St. Louis. Every one of Hasek's moves are calculated, every one of his blind saves are predictable at this point. How often do players score on the rebound against Hasek? It can't be done. It has to be a floater from the top of the circle if it's going past him.

[OsGOD 3]

At some point you have to see that, no matter who is playing better and no matter who has more history, Hasek came back to this team to go to the playoffs and to win the cup. I firmly believe he will get better throughout the year, like Babcock says. That's just how older players are. You just can't snub him like that, because he would not understand, like Ozzie would.

So because hasek came back he has more drive to play and than Ozzie and thus should start? That doesn't compute to me...

[puckloo39 5,686]

So because hasek came back he has more drive to play and than Ozzie and thus should start? That doesn't compute to me...

I am not sure it's as simple as that. They're both playing well, even though they are very different goalies. I think we should not worry so much about who's "better" and who is being snubbed or over-hyped. They both have the same ambition. I guarantee, they will both be glad to have their names on another Cup, regardless of who plays the majority of games. I love that they both want to be there equally. Babs can be the one who decides who plays and when. Lucky him.

Ozzie and Dom are on the same team, even if some of us in here are not.

Earth, great post, thanks! Glad to know someone else gets it.

[Guest Crymson]

I was talking about this during the allstar with my friends...no matter how good of a season osgood has and finishes with i still have that feeling #39 will be starting the playoffs.

Hasek is unbelievable in the playoffs.

[wingslogo19 281]

Whoever starts in net come playoff time doesn;t matter to me, I have faith in both.. But come June, both of our goalies will be raising the cup

[eva unit zero 271]

Hasek is unbelievable in the playoffs.

Both goalies have historically stepped their game up in the postseason, even if their team didn't follow suit. The question is not 'who gave us a better chance last year' but 'who gives us a better chance THIS YEAR' and there's still two months of hockey before we'll know the answer.

[b.shanafan14 733]

I am not sure it's as simple as that. They're both playing well, even though they are very different goalies. I think we should not worry so much about who's "better" and who is being snubbed or over-hyped. They both have the same ambition. I guarantee, they will both be glad to have their names on another Cup, regardless of who plays the majority of games. I love that they both want to be there equally. Babs can be the one who decides who plays and when. Lucky him.

Ozzie and Dom are on the same team, even if some of us in here are not.

Earth, great post, thanks! Glad to know someone else gets it.

I think its true both would be happy to have their name on the cup, but no one can say its not sweeter to be the goaltender who got the team to the Cup in the playoffs. They are both playing great. I prefer Ozzy, but a Cup is a cup and both if play continues, give us a great chance at winning.

My ONLY problem with this and many other threads, besides the seemingly endless goaltending disputes mid-season, (while more valid when Hasek was slumping and Osgood was unbeatable) is when I see a great many people saying that no matter how good one plays or bad the other plays, Hasek should start in the playoffs.

We are all Red Wings fans, and I respect that everyone has their goaltender of choice, but the only reason we should choose a goaltender to get us through playoffs over another is for their play in the 2007-2008 regular season. And I don't believe that ends for another two months....

[dallas27 7]

Again, if it's luck, then he's the luckiest man on the planet because he's been having success playing that way for 15 years.

The only thing that he's lucky about is that teams haven't realized that all you have to do is shoot it over top of him, since you'd score every time, as someone else said in this thread.

It's truly amazing that he ever makes a save....

Did your brain just block out the fact that I said it isn't all luck? But there IS an aspect of luck involved WHEN he is flopping around. Whether you accept it or not, and you won't, mostly because you are ignorant. Of course he knows what he is doing (thinking about it though... I am making an arguement with myself that even he doesn't know what he is doing and he just goes out there and does it), I thought classifying Hasek's style as his own and that you can not teach it would be sufficient enough, I guess not.

Only in YOUR eyes is it truly amazing he ever makes a save. In YOUR eyes it's Hasek vs The World. Everyone is out to get him. But alas, the man is one of the best, so what if he gets lucky, the puck stays out of the net. That's all that matters.

As for the lacing them up thing. I've laced them up with Petr Sykora, who happens to have quite a good shot, he thought he could go top shelf on me, he was mistaken.

[Sergeiwasmyfav 0]

Did your brain just block out the fact that I said it isn't all luck? But there IS an aspect of luck involved WHEN he is flopping around. Whether you accept it or not, and you won't, mostly because you are ignorant. Of course he knows what he is doing (thinking about it though... I am making an arguement with myself that even he doesn't know what he is doing and he just goes out there and does it), I thought classifying Hasek's style as his own and that you can not teach it would be sufficient enough, I guess not.

Only in YOUR eyes is it truly amazing he ever makes a save. In YOUR eyes it's Hasek vs The World. Everyone is out to get him. But alas, the man is one of the best, so what if he gets lucky, the puck stays out of the net. That's all that matters.

As for the lacing them up thing. I've laced them up with Petr Sykora, who happens to have quite a good shot, he thought he could go top shelf on me, he was mistaken.

Then why aren't you in the NHL??? Yeah, I know, smartass comment, but couldn't help it.

[dallas27 7]

You aren't the first to say it, nor will you be the last. s*** happens.