If we lose this series, will Holland be fired?

[gcom007 1,465]

I don't agree with what you have to say all that often, but I'm with ya pretty much 100% on this one.

He shouldn't be fired if we lose this series, but I'll absolutely snap if anyone ever tries to argue that he's the best in the business again.

If this team bows out in the first round, it's pretty inexcusable to have left that much cap room on the table and to have not found a way to get a forward at the deadline. Fedorov or Prospal would look really good in our jersey right now, and neither one cost all that much.

And it's just that simple? No. Especially with Federov, they were not about to ship him off to us let alone for as cheap as he ultimately was when they're in our division. This was blatantly obvious based on quotes from both sides leading up to during, and after the trade deadline. This isn't NHL 2008 on X-Box.

And the money? I think he learned a lesson. Everyone's still feeling out this cap era. It's new. Can you call it a mistake? Sure. But how many other teams have made mistakes? Oh yeah, clever, I know. He's generally done a good job at putting together solid teams and you have to give him credit for being smart enough to make sure he has good people around that he listens to. Just the fact that he's got Yzerman or Bowman whispering in his ear does not automatically mean he's not so good at his job. I'd say it makes him better. He's still the GM and again, he's wise enough to make sure he's working with these great minds like a team. There's a lot of good hockey people steering the ship and he's the figurehead of the management. That's not bad, it just is what it is. He could do infinitely worse. Look at the deals he's gotten done for Holmstrom and Cleary. That's good stuff...bah...whatever, just don't approach this topic in such a narrow minded manner. There's so much more to it than any of us realize and he's done a great job any way you shake it. In the context of the league, you can't argue with his success.

[evil204 4]

how have we been outcoached? what has trotz done to "out coach" babcock? told his d men to shoot from the blue line cuz he knew dom sucks at long shots??

Blocked our 70-foot shots, slowed us down in the neutral zone, didn't let Datsyuk and Zetterberg stickhandle into their zone (how many times did those two lose the puck trying to do that tonight?).

[hckypete96 3]

dude we had the same long ass shots on goal too but ellis just stopped the simple saves....

[irishtemper14+25 11]

you dont fire a person that provides the type of players holland does...u fire the coach who doesnt do enough to get them in playoff mode

[Packer487 3]

And it's just that simple? No. Especially with Federov, they were not about to ship him off to us let alone for as cheap as he ultimately was when they're in our division. This was blatantly obvious based on quotes from both sides leading up to during, and after the trade deadline. This isn't NHL 2008 on X-Box.

The BJers weren't going to make the playoffs and if Feds wanted to come here during the offseason, he could and the BJs would have no ability to stop it. I don't doubt that it would've been a little more expensive than the equivalent of a 4th round pick (Ruth), but I don't buy it for a second that they were asking for a 1st rounder and a prospect or whatever the rumor was. And if that's the case, then you go get Prospal. Or someone else.

Would it have necessarily been a cure-all? No. But as I said at the deadline, when you're the top team in the league and your window to win a championship is open, you have to give your team the best chance possible to be successful. Holland didn't do that. It was basically GM Malpractice to not find a forward for this team and leave that much money on the table.

Overall, he's a good GM. Don't get me wrong. This team has pretty much completely changed from the time he took over and they're still great. But I feel like to some extent he's lost his balls in the cap era, and that's not a good quality. I can appreciate looking toward the future, but not at the expense of the present when the window is open NOW. And that's kind of what he's done...

[Jamaica Jon 1]

Jesus, we lose 2 games and its time to pull out the hammers and fire people? Remember last year against the Flames and the Sharks? Lost 2 games in a row, but bounce back to win the series? News-flash people: we arent last years Ducks who waltzed right into the WCF series.

Finally! Some sanity in this thread! The series is 2-2 people! We've lost 2 road games that we could've won just as easily... it's not the end of the world.

And it's just that simple? No. Especially with Federov, they were not about to ship him off to us let alone for as cheap as he ultimately was when they're in our division. This was blatantly obvious based on quotes from both sides leading up to during, and after the trade deadline. This isn't NHL 2008 on X-Box.

And the money? I think he learned a lesson. Everyone's still feeling out this cap era. It's new. Can you call it a mistake? Sure. But how many other teams have made mistakes? Oh yeah, clever, I know. He's generally done a good job at putting together solid teams and you have to give him credit for being smart enough to make sure he has good people around that he listens to. Just the fact that he's got Yzerman or Bowman whispering in his ear does not automatically mean he's not so good at his job. I'd say it makes him better. He's still the GM and again, he's wise enough to make sure he's working with these great minds like a team. There's a lot of good hockey people steering the ship and he's the figurehead of the management. That's not bad, it just is what it is. He could do infinitely worse. Look at the deals he's gotten done for Holmstrom and Cleary. That's good stuff...bah...whatever, just don't approach this topic in such a narrow minded manner. There's so much more to it than any of us realize and he's done a great job any way you shake it. In the context of the league, you can't argue with his success.

Totally agree. And I don't see how people can blame Holland for not making the moves to get Federov, Hossa, or Prospal. The teams wanted too much. We've been consistently good for a reason, because we limit trades like these. You people are kidding yourselves if you think any of the success we've had since had since the lockout (albeit, most of it has been regular season, but last year playoffs went well) has NOTHING to do with Holland...

Blocked our 70-foot shots, slowed us down in the neutral zone, didn't let Datsyuk and Zetterberg stickhandle into their zone (how many times did those two lose the puck trying to do that tonight?).

Oh, wow! What insight by Trotz! Good thing EVERY OTHER TEAM doesn't attempt to do the same thing...

[interminded 1]

Hell no.

Holland is no where near to be blamed.

He has done all the right things by keeping good players in Detroit and get rid of some mediocre ones.

There's only so much a GM can do.

[redwinger4747 6]

NO! Neither Holland or Babcock should be fired, regardless of what happens.

Holland has put together a more than adequate group of players and Babcock is a great coach. If we fail, its on the players, period.

[<nightwing> 0]

One thing I don't understand is why Holland is held in such high regard. Yes, he is good at what he does, but he has a lot of help, and his job isn't that hard. I'd like to see what he could do in Montreal or Florida.

Everyone seems to forget that the Wings dynasty fell into his lap. He didn't build the ship, he just took over after it set sail.

what the hell do you know about being a NHL GM? get real

[Nev 1,085]

Team fell into his lap? And pray tell who scouted all those players that the wings drafted in the early 90s to build this dynasty?

As for not signing any players with our cap room - Holland has made it abundantly clear that because of the need to resign Flip/Franzen/Lidstrom Zetterberg, they could not take anyone on with a big multi-year contract, but they couldn't get anyone other than Drake with a 1-year deal. They tried to sign Stuart but he wanted to live in California - just what is Holland supposed to do about that?

Stupidest thread ever.

[ShanahanMan 473]

Team fell into his lap? And pray tell who scouted all those players that the wings drafted in the early 90s to build this dynasty?

As for not signing any players with our cap room - Holland has made it abundantly clear that because of the need to resign Flip/Franzen/Lidstrom Zetterberg, they could not take anyone on with a big multi-year contract, but they couldn't get anyone other than Drake with a 1-year deal. They tried to sign Stuart but he wanted to live in California - just what is Holland supposed to do about that?

Stupidest thread ever.

You're not supposed to hang on to assets that aren't contributing for one. The "need" to resign Flip? Why is there a need at all to resign Flip? Why keep around players that don't contribute and frankly, have little potential. My god, some people on this board think Flip, Kop, and Huds are like the next GODS of hockey......we just need to wait for them to come into their own. Get real.

Edited April 17, 2008 by ShanahanMan

[Konnan511 1,736]

You're not supposed to hang on to assets that aren't contributing for one. The "need" to resign Flip? Why is there a need at all to resign Flip? Why keep around players that don't contribute and frankly, have little potential. My god, some people on this board think Flip, Kop, and Huds are like the next GODS of hockey......we just need to wait for them to come into their own. Get real.

I bet when Datsyuk wasn't producing in the playoffs routinely you were one of the guys to say we need to get rid of him, right? Filppula did an outstanding job last year in the playoffs and this year is only his SECOND year, put down NHL 2K8 and you get real. And I can't stand Hudler as much as the next guy, but the thing is, he has the majority of our points this series! So you can go ahead and get rid of the guy that is second or third in team points, I'll keep him.

It's 2 games!

@ the person who said a GM's job is easy.....

[Hank 0]

I won't flame you because I agree with you.

Holland failed to replace Lang and Bertuzzi. In their wake we have a completely invisible Filpulla.

He also let Markov walk and we replaced him with Stuart. Markov is far more physical while Stuart has at least one brain fart on every shift.

Goaltending has always been the Wings achilles heel and this years playoff run is no exception. And what has Holland done to address that? Nothing. Even when Christobal Huet could have been had FOR NOTHING.

Once again we headed into the playoffs without enough size and scoring along the wings along with having suspect goaltending.

When Dats and Zetts aren't on the ice, it's shocking how inffective our offense is. Sammy is completely and utterly useless. Filpulla is non-existant. Franzen hasn't been seen in two games. Hudler is only competent during the man-advantage. Cleary is obviously still not 100%. And Hasek? He continues to struggle and gives up at least one bad goal a game. I know he played well last year but if you go over old game tapes, even though we went to the Conference finals, he still let in a bad goal nearly every game.

While Holland continues to overpay to retain this soft puck-possession team, he's failed to load up in areas that win Cups.

Ellis is being made to look far better than he really is. Look at all the giant, juicy rebounds he's giving up from 40-foot shots. And yet, where is the 2nd chance shot? It's never, ever there. Why? Because so few of our forwards are able to outmuscle the Predators for those bounces or rebounds. How many times have we seen our players get manhandled along the boards, losing puck battle after puck battle?

What's really, really frustrating for me is that I have no idea where the team showed up against Calgary last spring has gone to. This team looks exactly like the one that got swept by Anaheim in 03, doused in 04 by the Flames and humiliated by the Oilers in 05.

In the playoffs, things are so tight that only a very select group of players can continue to create chances they way they can in the regular season. Guys like Malkin, Datsyuk, Crosby, etc. But for the rest of the players like Sammuelsson, Filpulla, Hudler, Cleary and Franzen they HAVE to find a 2nd gear and another level to score. It's twice as hard to light the lamp in the playoffs than it is in November. A higher price needs to be paid to score. You need to take punches and sticks to the face. And so far, I'm not seeing that willingness from many of our guys.

Regardless if we make it through this round, I don't see this team coming close to winning it all.

If we do lose this round or the next, we need to change philosphy's on this team. I'm tired of winning President's Trophy's. All it does is remind me and everyone else how we can dominate for 6 months of meaningless hockey but fail to show up with our balls in a lunchpail when the games matter.

We can start by jettisoning Filpulla, Samuelsson, Hudler and Lebda. Lets get some big surly meatheads - one of which can at least score.

And for crying out loud! Can we get a true #1 goalie???? Huet is a UFA this spring. Enough with loading up on guys who can play ticky-tacky puck possession hockey. It's been proven that all you need is a top goalie and a few heartbeats in front of him to advance deep into the playoffs. But maybe that's where the issue lies. Too many bodies, not enough hearts.

And Lidstrom? How about you or any of the leaders on the team like Draper or Chelios start calling players out like Regher did on the Flames? It's obviouis some of your boys aren't doing what's necessary to win. What's even more troubleling is that so many of these guys have been to the top but forget to remind everyone else what's needed.

Ugh. That's my tainted, Wings-fan rant of the day.

But I'm sure Holland will go out and sign some more sweethearts from across the pond. Guys that will see their junk shrivle up in their abdomens when facing a team complete with players who come to the rink with balls and a hard hat.

EDIT: Wanted to add that I'm tired of watching the Wings lose when they don't put in a complete 60 minute effort. Meanwhile our opponent only needs to play hard for 8 minutes and they beat us.

F**K!!!! WHERE IS THE TEAM FROM LAST SPRING?????? LET'S SEE SOME F**CKING DESPERATION!!!

Remember how the Wings came flying out of the game last year? How they immediately started hammering the bigger and stronger Flames around? I think it was because the Wings players were tired of losing early and were embrassed about what was written about them in the papers. Everyone was picking the Flames to upset them. So they took care of business. Well I guess after going to the semi-finals means you can take a couple more springs off.

What a joke! I hope Illitch is forced to drop ticket prices to $8 a seat just to get people to come to that dump of an arena so we can all listen to "Whats going on?" and "Open Up Your Eyes" everytime the Wings get a penalty.

F**K you DJ!

Edited April 17, 2008 by Hank

[McCartyFanForLife 17]

We have without question, the most talented team in the league. The GM is normally responsible for that so he won't get fired. Babcock wouldn't be fired, he just might not have his contract renewed. All I know is Bowman would have won 2 - 3 more cups with the talent we have now.

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

Haha how do you know that Hollands job is easy? Are you one of his secretaries outing him or something? 2 losses and everyone hits the panick button. Guess what, Nashville won 2 games at home. That is what a tough home team does. Holland is one of the best GM's in the league. A fact pointed out more than once by his peers in the league who have more knowledge in there thumb regarding the business of hockey than any of you have in your whole body.

[IceMunkee 15]

He will only be fired if we can get Paddock here. Or definitly Dave Lewis.

[Hank 0]

Haha how do you know that Hollands job is easy? Are you one of his secretaries outing him or something? 2 losses and everyone hits the panick button. Guess what, Nashville won 2 games at home. That is what a tough home team does. Holland is one of the best GM's in the league. A fact pointed out more than once by his peers in the league who have more knowledge in there thumb regarding the business of hockey than any of you have in your whole body.

It's not that we lost 2 games. It's how we lost them.

No compusure, bad goalending, no scoring depth, not physical enough.

I fear what would happen to us against Calgary or Colorado.

[Nev 1,085]

You're not supposed to hang on to assets that aren't contributing for one. The "need" to resign Flip? Why is there a need at all to resign Flip? Why keep around players that don't contribute and frankly, have little potential. My god, some people on this board think Flip, Kop, and Huds are like the next GODS of hockey......we just need to wait for them to come into their own. Get real.

Gods of hockey? Please, a little less of the Hyperbole, no-one thinks they are Hockey GODS. They are however, young cheap and talented. Don't contribute? 19 goals in the regular season, 6th on the team and good 2-way play to go with it? I mean seriously, wtf will you be satisfied with from a 2nd line in this salary cap era? So he hasn't got a goal in a whole 4 games!! Oh noes!! He's useless, dead weight blah blah blah. We haven't lost those 2 (TWO) games because Flip didn't score, we lost because Dom has lost the ability to stop long range shots.

Maybe you'd like us to do a Pittsburgh and finish dead last several seasons on the trot so we can load up with a Malkin and a Crosby? One of whom is unlikely to be there much longer btw, what with this salary cap and all.

Good grief, I expect all this ChickenLicken-ness from Leafies, not from Wings fans. Sign Huet! Sign Hossa! Sign everyone!

Lets wait till we're out of the playoffs before we perform a post-mortem on this team.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I know I'm probably gonna get flamed like hell for this by all you Holland lovers but I want to get some honest opinions here. If we lose this series, it will be the 3rd loss in 5 years to a team in the first round. Two of which would be after we finished first in the league. All you Holland lovers argue that, "he gives us a consistently good team every year, he builds a team that lands us a president's trophy, blah blah blah." I say, who gives a s*** if we have a great season just to lose AGAIN in the first round. This year, Holland had PLENTY of cap space and ability to make some good mvoes in the summer......he got Rafalski and.....thats it (unless you count Drake). Uhhh.....what happened the secondary scoring we DESPERATELY need? Holland says he's saving room for the trade deadline. Fair enough. Trade deadline comes......and we get......Stuart? A good acquisition but he still failed to address what we really needed and that was MORE scorers! He had chances to pull the trigger and land us some good guys......and failed. He liked what we "have" and didn't want to "give away the future".....the excuse he so often uses. Well Holland, the future ain't looking too good right now either. I believe Flip has one point so far? I know when we can come back and win this series......but I really think if we don't, Holland is to blame.....especially considering we had some quality chances to make our team a lot better. I've said it ebfore and will say it again....this guy gets way too much praise for what he does.....which is basically very little.

To simply put it, no. And I don't think there's much point for any further explanation.

[al48 1]

I don't think he'll be fired, but it will be interesting to see if he asks for out of his contract and heads home to Vancouver.

[redwings56 1]

hossa wouldn't have helped this team.

[calfan 0]

The better question is whether Holland will stay in any case. There's a rumour (isn't there always?) he could be a shoo-in for the job with the Cannucks. He lives in BC in the offseason, Stevie's about ready to fly, it's time for a change, blah, blah, blah.

[Hank 0]

hossa wouldn't have helped this team.

Nope, but Matt Cooke, Sergei Fedorov and Christobal Huet surely could have.

And I'm almost postive Markov would be a heck of a lot better than what Stuart is giving us right now.

[BlueMonk 102]

There's no chance Holland gets fired. Is his idea of how to build a roster responsible for a team that struggles to get out of round one? Absolutely, to my mind. But nobody will fire a GM whose team is at the top of the standings every year.

[vangvace 12]

Team fell into his lap? And pray tell who scouted all those players that the wings drafted in the early 90s to build this dynasty?

I give Devellano the credit there.

As for Holland...

2 more years before I'll say if he can handle being a GM in the salary cap era. That's enough time to adjust and tell who can and cannot work the cap.

That said I wouldn't be surprised to see minor changes coming this offseason to the staff.