TOP 10 Reasons Sundin Isn't a Hall-Of-Famer

[Saran 1]

http://sports.sympatico.msn.ca/THNcom+Top+...c&date=True

10. Has never led his team to great heights.

9. Has just 16 more points (1,321) than games played (1,305) during his 17-season career. Very good, but not great.

8. He never posted a 50-goal season and had just one 100-point season. Pavel Bure had two 60-goal seasons and two more with 58 and 59 and he's an outsider.

7. His 1,321 career regular season points are impressive, but not good enough. Adam Oates has been rejected two straight induction years and he retired with 1,420 points. Same with Doug Gilmour and his 1,414 points.

6. His 555 career regular season goals are impressive, but not good enough. Dino Ciccarelli has 608 and he has been rebuffed and Dave Andreychuk (640) won't get in when he's first-time eligible in 2009.

5. Has averaged less than a point per game in the playoffs in his career.

4. Has never been a first-team all-star. (He has been a second-teamer twice.)

3. Has never won an individual award.

2. Has never won a Stanley Cup - or even made it to the final.

1. Has rarely played at a level where he's considered among the top few players at his position. He has been loyal, durable, his production has been remarkably consistent, but he hasn't crossed the line between being a very, very good player and a truly exceptional player.

Edited August 5, 2008 by Saran

[edicius 3,269]

You know...I can't argue with any of those. Makes perfect sense. This would fit in perfectly in that "overrated/underrated" thread. Sundin? Way overrated.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Hmmm, interesting. I don't know how I feel about this.

[norrisnick 1]

Top 1 reason Sundin is a HOFer.

1. Bernie Federko

[eva unit zero 271]

And amazingly, I can debunk ALL TEN of those reasons with JUST the following two words:

Cam Neely.

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

I dont know how i feel about it.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Good points on both Neely and Federko.

I think he'll get in just because he was captain of the Leafs for so long. The HOF is in Toronto, after all.

[stud_defenseman 1]

He won't get in on the first try, but I think he will eventually. Gilmour will get in too.

[SweWings 45]

Is it HHoF or NHLHoF?

[StaticWithABeat 0]

Whatever, the HHOF has garbage for standards. If Dick Duff (AKA the Kris Draper of 40 years ago) is a Hall of Famer then Sundin should have skyscraper monuments erected in his honor and be proclaimed the supreme emperor of hockey.

Sundin is better than at least half the players in the Hall right now, his biggest "flaw" is he's been languishing on garbage Leaf teams his whole career. With his ability, I don't see why he couldn't have put up 1500-1600 points if it had been Sakic going to the Leafs instead of him. Obviously this isn't relevant to whether he'll make the Hall or not (I'm on the fence), but I do see him as one of the most underutilized and unappreciated superstars of my lifetime.

[LIDDYGIBBY5 1]

And amazingly, I can debunk ALL TEN of those reasons with JUST the following two words:

Cam Neely.

Great point! Do you think he should be because Cam is in or is he good enough. Or do you think that he should be out?

[theman19 47]

the only reason neely is in is due to the huge ground swelling from media guys who had a man crush on him back in the day.

[Doggy 130]

And amazingly, I can debunk ALL TEN of those reasons with JUST the following two words:

Cam Neely.

So, you're saying that anyone with better numbers than Neely will get into the Hall?

I hate to break it to ya but that's not the case. Pretty flawed logic really.

[stlwing14 0]

Top 1 reason Sundin is a HOFer.

1. Bernie Federko

And he will never let the people of Saint Louis forget it. Every single broadcast and before and after every commercial break "Hall of Famer" Bernie Federko is sounded off. Course his commentary is some of the worst, homer based garbage I've ever heard. What the people of Saint Louis and Blues fans in general wouldn't do to have Ken Wilson back and anybody but Bernie as the color guy. Not only does the team suck, but the broadcast is ever worse.

As for Sundin, I agree with the reasons. For one, the standards of the Hall of Fame seem to have fallen considerably (i.e. Federko) which makes me think Sundin has a decent shot at being included, BUT Sundin just isn't Yzerman or Sakic or insert leader that can carry a team to championships.

[b.shanafan14 733]

So, you're saying that anyone with better numbers than Neely will get into the Hall?

I hate to break it to ya but that's not the case. Pretty flawed logic really.

I don't believe thats what everyone is saying, and I doubt many are saying Cam Neely wasn't a great hockey player, I believe they are making a case for Sundin who many think to be overrated by comparing him to Neely who always seemed to be praised as being better than he actually was. Once again, not a knock on Cam Neely, just saying you could basically make a top ten list of why most of those in the HHOF shouldn't be there, doesn't mean they shouldn't. Then again, because of their infamy and general pleasure to watch, my mind always wanders to why guys like Probert aren't in

[Doggy 130]

I don't believe thats what everyone is saying, and I doubt many are saying Cam Neely wasn't a great hockey player, I believe they are making a case for Sundin who many think to be overrated by comparing him to Neely who always seemed to be praised as being better than he actually was. Once again, not a knock on Cam Neely, just saying you could basically make a top ten list of why most of those in the HHOF shouldn't be there, doesn't mean they shouldn't. Then again, because of their infamy and general pleasure to watch, my mind always wanders to why guys like Probert aren't in

Neely would've had a HOF career IMO. He was great. Really great.

[imisssergei 0]

http://sports.sympatico.msn.ca/THNcom+Top+...c&date=True

You could use a lot of those arguments against Stevie prior to '97.

IMHO Mats is a first ballot guy. However, all it would take for him to be a consensus first ballot HOFer is a Cup.

[Konnan511 1,736]

I dont know how i feel about it.

I hear yah

[Yzerfan1999 81]

I think he will make it in just based on the fact that he was the Leafs captain and he had some pretty good years. Do I think he deserves it? Not at all. One of the most overrated players in the last 10 years, IMO.

Oh, and I would rather have Cam Neely on my team then Sundin. Anyday.

[Shutemdown 23]

I think he will make it in just based on the fact that he was the Leafs captain and he had some pretty good years. Do I think he deserves it? Not at all. One of the most overrated players in the last 10 years, IMO.

Oh, and I would rather have Cam Neely on my team then Sundin. Anyday.

He's gotta make it in... I remember him being one of the Marquee players back when I was young and that seems like forever ago...

But he's not given half the credit he deserves, either. People are quick to discredit him because of all of his "achievements" or lack thereof. To be totally honest, he's been leading a team for the last decade of his life and never complained, when he definately should have. Yeah, he never carried his team to a championship, but to be on the Toronto Maple Leafs and still put up numbers like that, I have to give him credit.

Inductees into the HOF are looked at from every angle, much more than just glancing at their stats and seeing that they've gotten past a certain point. I'm hoping the HOF can recognize what he HAS done for his team, his city, and the league. He may not be an impact player now, but that doesn't mean he never was.

[StevieY9802 6]

While I agree with pretty much all of those, he'll make it in. He's had a good career lets not kid ourselves. But if he makes it in on the first ballot when guys like Oates, Dino and Gilmour didn't... that will be shady. And he wasn't always on crap Leaf teams. 99-04 they had some pretty good teams in there. I keep losing repsect for this guy every day this thing drags on. I know it's a big choice to make but it's not like his season ended in June it ended in April. So after 4 months of sitting around you can't make up your mind to even retire or not? If I was a Canucks or Habs fan I wouldn't want him on my team. I've also started to question his desire to win. For a guy who seems to be thinking about himself wouldn't you want a shot at the Cup? So many people thought Hossa was about the money and he took the same deal Sundin could have had here and Hossa was being offered much bigger contracts.

Edited August 6, 2008 by StevieY9802

[SnipeShow 0]

i don't know about HHoF, but he should be given some sort of humanitarian award for putting up with all the BS in Toronto for so long

[eva unit zero 271]

Neely would've had a HOF career IMO. He was great. Really great.

Neely would've if he had remained healthy. That 'Would've' got him enough sympathy to actually get him in. Sundin actually HAD a HOF career, and now people are looking for reasons to keep him out. Seriously. That's f***ed up.

[Opie 308]

Neely would've if he had remained healthy. That 'Would've' got him enough sympathy to actually get him in. Sundin actually HAD a HOF career, and now people are looking for reasons to keep him out. Seriously. That's f***ed up.

I second the "That's f***ed up" notion!!

[eva unit zero 271]

While I agree with pretty much all of those, he'll make it in. He's had a good career lets not kid ourselves. But if he makes it in on the first ballot when guys like Oates, Dino and Gilmour didn't.

Oates, Gilmour, and Dino were rarely among the top three or four players at their position. Sundin was usually one of the best three or four centers in the league. Sundin was also one of the best three or four centers in the league when his scoring winger was a guy like Jonas Hoglund or Mikael Renberg most seasons, not Brett Hull or Cam Neely. Ciccarelli was rarely ever one of the best players at his position and this was at a weaker position. Dino had one top-five showing, fifth-place, for postseason all-star voting. That's all. Oates had three top-five showings; a second-place and two fourth-place showings. Gilmour? Two thirds, both of which came with top-three left winger Dave Andreychuk. Sundin has, to-date, posted a fifth-place and two-second place showings. That's better than any of the other three. Gilmour's Selke is the only significant award or achievement any of the other three have that Sundin does not, and Sundin is the only onf of the four who has been a consistent threat both in terms of scoring goals and setting them up despite the fact that he has had the least to work with in terms of linemates, I would say he is easily the best bet of the four as far as the HOF. Sundin also is playing at an elite level later in his career than the other three were; as the other three were only elite or close to it for a very short period during their primes while Sundin has been a top player in the NHL for over a decade. Hall of Famer.