Jason Williams Offered 1 Year Contract

[RedFX 48]

Actually, replace the "I'll take" with "the Red Wings will take". As you can tell, the musing about the types of players you (and the team) would rather avoid, is basically a trip into fantasyland that some spend far too much time venturing to. For those of us who actually do enjoy seeing a fight, but realistically, it's very much recognizable that micah turns a sideshow into the main event. I'm not sure if it's to project some manly image or if all he's interested in, with the NHL, is fighting.

Edit: Which reminds me of a South Park episode about Russell Crowe!

I like a good fight as much as the next guy. But the win is more important to me

[Frozen-Man 144]

You're such an exhuberant downer you'd bring pom-poms to the Negative Nancy Convention.

Sure, it sucks to see a Red Wings back down, take a dive, etc... no one is denying they aren't the Anaheim Ducks when it comes to physical play, intimidation and answering the bell -- but for goodness sakes, they have a lot of other great qualities, which you can't seem to mention without smearning s*** on them in the same breath. It's flat-out annoying.

"Kronwall had a nice hit there... too bad he's too much of a ***** to raise the gloves afterwards"

"Hudler has a ton of heart... too bad he's ugly and my neice could beat him up"

"Konstantinov was a warrior... too bad he couldn't fight for s***"

"Lidstrom is an amazing player... too bad he's a horrible captain"

Do you do that with your wife?

"Wow, that was an amazing dinner and I loved my anniversary present... too bad you've gained a few pounds over the years"

"You look lovely tonight... just wish I couldn't see that mole from here"

Your kids?

"Great game tonight! ... too bad you got schooled by that girl once"

"I'm so proud of you! ... except for the fact that you're short, obnoxious and can't stop picking your nose"

Pure obnoxious behavior.

:hysterical: QFT :hysterical:

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Well, he lifted the Cup, that was something. He also captained his team to a Stanley Cup victory. No other Captain in the NHL is a current stanley Cup champion. Just Crosby. He's the only one. At the pinacle. All alone. Where everybody else wants to be. Crosby. Captain crosby. Stanley Cup Champion Crosby. It just rolls off the lips so well. No other current Captain is Cahmpion. There are a few former-champs and also-rans out there, sure, but only one man at the top. Crosby. Crosby.

Once I saw Crosby punch a kitten in the throat.

[mmamolo 287]

Even though the Wings don't fight much, if at all, doesnt mean they aren't tough. Because certain players choose not to fight doesn't mean they are scared too. I've been in my share of hockey fights but I also turned down my share. When I drew a penalty from another player and he wanted to drop the gloves I'd be a ******* moron to engage with him and end up evening the penalties out. It's true though that in those situations players on the other team would want to call me names like 'coward' and '*****' but I would just shrug it off and laugh while we went and scored on the powerplay. At the end of the day the point is there is a time and a place to fight. The Red Wings see it as the time and place it on the scoreboard and between the whistles where they can hurt you most. Dropping the gloves and fighting, although entertaining, does very little most of the time to the outcome of the game itself. THe only thing it can ever really accomplish is swing the momentum a little bit. But when you have a system like the Wings do that breaks the other team down and punishes them in every other facet of the game other than fighting there is no need to fight. Correct me if Im wrong but it's not like the Wings get out hit and out muscled on a nightly basis...far from it.

As far as Williams goes there is no way the offer was for $2.5M otherwise he would have jumped. THe fact he is even mulling it over means it was substantially lower. Personally I don't think it's a good mvoe for the Wings to make even at a decent price but maybe none of the other FAs are biting.

Edited July 30, 2009 by mmamolo

[Peleshob 0]

At 2.5 the answer is "Do Not Want" but if it's some real low-ball price, sure. The thing is, the guy doesn't sound like he even wants to go to Detroit. So even at a low price, do we really want a guy who lacks motivation? He's complaining about how the Wings gave up on him, etc. Plus, I hate seeing a right-handed forward man the blue line. We just got rid of Samuelsson. Plus, Mike Babcock, use a defenseman to play defense during the PP. Please.

[chrisdetroit 189]

I also like to brag about being more succesful and better looking than other posters. I'm not a one trick pony.

Pronger and Crosby deserve praise, they are superstars, elite players.

Franzen, Sammy and Maltby arecowardly *******, and I don't think you'd really argue otherwise.

I've said before and I'll say again that I retract my Dats-bashing. He has really developed into a complete player as of late, and his testicles apear to have descended. Good for him!

Homer I have no strong oppinion on, except that he isn't even 1/2 the player Pronger is and he should have manned-up and acceptec Pronger's fight invite for the good of the team - unless of course he's SO weak that he thinks a non-fighter like Pronger would put him in the hospital. Really, I'm more conceraned about the fact that he kinda sucks as a hockey player these days and I hope he never sees a sniff of the top 6 again. Park his pokey ass on the 4th line with the other unskilled hacks until the we're on th epowerplay, then let him do the one thing he does well.

As I Red wing fan, I have the duty to hate Chelios forever for the cheapshots he habitually made on Yzerman. Worse than anything that Pronger has ever done to us.

Hudler is ugly and my wife doesn't like watching games with me because she says "he's uglier than Chelios!". I like it when she watches games with me, so I hope Hudler goes to play in Moscow and never comes back. My wife thinks Downey is hot. I kinda do too. I hope we sign him again.

Lidstrom I like well enough, though I think his skills are declining faster than some around here do. I wish that he were a more vocal leader, and I think that Captains should generally be the guys who set the tone for the team. If a team is to have an identity, it should start from the Captain and flow down. See Yteve Yzerman, doing the "championship belt" thing for Probert. See Sakic beating up Gilmour - displaying to all that he is not a special class of player, he can get dirty with the rest of them, and is not above anything. See Messier being an absolute dick to everybody he played against. I like captains who play a good, skilled, disiplined game but also have some passion. All that said, I still like Lids, and I think he's a fine interim Captain until Zetts gets the job.

I think I've mostly left Zetterberg and Kronner alone, haven't I? I really like Cleary and Osgood. I like(d) Lilja, Ericsson, Hossa, Ablekader, Helm and Stewart too.

Wow. Those are some interesting opinions.

I believe that it was Cleary that got in a fight with dickhead (Pronger) last year and Pronger tore him up. He missed some games because of it. So, I'm not so sure the Wings should be fighting the dickhead.

As far as Lids, in case you haven't heard he was a finalist for the Norris Trophy again last year. That points "Mr. declining skills" as no worse than the 3rd best d-men in the entire league.

[Guest Shoreline]

Wow. Those are some interesting opinions.

I believe that it was Cleary that got in a fight with dickhead (Pronger) last year and Pronger tore him up. He missed some games because of it. So, I'm not so sure the Wings should be fighting the dickhead.

As far as Lids, in case you haven't heard he was a finalist for the Norris Trophy again last year. That points "Mr. declining skills" as no worse than the 3rd best d-men in the entire league.

Well, Green didn't win the Norris as I predicted he would, but it's interesting to me who led his team significantly further in the playoffs of those candidates. It would be like suggesting that Markus Naslund was a better captain back in the 2002 championship for having more points during the regular season than Steve Yzerman. My own personal interpretation of a great player in hockey is one who best helps his team win, not one who, individually, tears up the ice. There's no doubt that Lids play declined this last season (he made far more mistakes than usual, and was prone to being beaten wide by fast players), but realistically, he means far more to this team, and winning, than Chara or Green do theirs.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Shoreline

[uk_redwing 495]

Eugh. Am never going to get over this. Of all the free agents...of all the free agents...

[Frozen-Man 144]

Well, he lifted the Cup, that was something. He also captained his team to a Stanley Cup victory. No other Captain in the NHL is a current stanley Cup champion. Just Crosby. He's the only one. At the pinacle. All alone. Where everybody else wants to be. Crosby. Captain crosby. Stanley Cup Champion Crosby. It just rolls off the lips so well. No other current Captain is Cahmpion. There are a few former-champs and also-rans out there, sure, but only one man at the top. Crosby. Crosby.

Funny, I never heard you slobber over Lidstrom last year and how "he lifted the Cup, that was something. He also captained his team to a Stanley Cup victory. No other Captain in the NHL is a current stanley Cup champion. Just [Lidstrom]. He's the only one. At the pinacle. All alone. Where everybody else wants to be. [Lidstrom]. Captain [Lidstrom]. Stanley Cup Champion [Lidstrom]. It just rolls off the lips so well. No other current Captain is Cahmpion [sic]. There are a few former-champs and also-rans out there, sure, but only one man at the top. [Lidstrom].

When it was the captain of the team you are supposedly a fan of you trashed the logic you just used to praise Crosby and said:

I don't know that I've heard any non-Wings call Lidstrom a great leader. A great Captain can be on a winning hockey team or a losing hockey team. To state that a Captain is a good Captain because his team is succesful is the exact same informal logical falacy [sic] that E.S.A.D. is being accused of.

According you when the Wings won the Cup it had nothing to do with Lidstrom being the captain and anyone who praised him for such was using an informal logical fallacy I guess when someone uses it about a Wings captain it is informal logical fallacy but when you use it about your girlfriend Cindy it is pure brilliance and truth .

Here a just a few more quotes to compare how you feel about the Wings captain compared to the gushing you just did over the Pens captain

He already has the C, it's just a secret C. The one Lidstrom wears isn't real. You can tell it's a fake if you look real close. You think a soft, faggy Euro-captain could lead a team this far into the playoffs?

Lidstrom is a big enough joke of a Captain, thanks. I don't want Pavel to get the C. Give it to someone with a bit of heart, a bit of passion. Also, a set of balls wouldn't hurt. Just sayin'.

Steve Yzerman might have been on the quiet side, but at least the guy had heart.

[Frozen-Man 144]

I also like to brag about being more succesful and better looking than other posters. I'm not a one trick pony.

Amazing as rich and sucessful as you claim to be you have never contributed to this site that you use so often. If you have so much cash and are so successful how about becoming a booster and helping fund this site.

Homer I have no strong oppinion on, except that he isn't even 1/2 the player Pronger is and he should have manned-up and acceptec Pronger's fight invite for the good of the team - unless of course he's SO weak that he thinks a non-fighter like Pronger would put him in the hospital. Really, I'm more conceraned about the fact that he kinda sucks as a hockey player these days and I hope he never sees a sniff of the top 6 again. Park his pokey ass on the 4th line with the other unskilled hacks until the we're on th epowerplay, then let him do the one thing he does well.

It cracks me up how you gush over a guy like Pronger who at 6'6" tries to fight a guy who he know is not a fighter and is half a foot shorter than him. Yeah he's the tough one and Homer is pathetic for not fighting him.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Well, Green didn't win the Norris as I predicted he would, but it's interesting to me who led his team significantly further in the playoffs of those candidates. It would be like suggesting that Markus Naslund was a better captain back in the 2002 championship for having more points during the regular season than Steve Yzerman. My own personal interpretation of a great player in hockey is one who best helps his team win, not one who, individually, tears up the ice. There's no doubt that Lids play declined this last season (he made far more mistakes than usual, and was prone to being beaten wide by fast players), but realistically, he means far more to this team, and winning, than Chara or Green do theirs.

[newfy 695]

Long enough that I remember being happy that he was coming to Detroit from Edmonton. He was always, as I recall, a cowardly *****. Big mouth, unable and unwilling to back it up.

Anyone who doesn't think Maltby is a coward clearly hasn't watched many games the last decade. I'd say he's just behind Franzen for biggest coward on the team. I don't see what you non fight crowd have against the people that want fights. I for one am a proud Red Wings fan but wouldn't mind seeing a fight every now and then. Hockey was made to be a rough tough sport and anyone who says you can't have both a good team and a tough team is retarded. Having even one player with balls won't make us go 0-82 like some of you euro lovers seem to think. I'm not even saying some meathead goon is what we need on the 4th line but I'm sick of seeing players with no heart going into scrums throwing gloved punches while hiding behind linesman. Thats cowardly and if anyone tries to deny it theyre blind clearly. I wouldn't mind seeing another cleary type player he actually has a set and can play the game. He doesnt even fight but thats my point he's not a coward like the other half of the wings roster seems to be.

Anyways now that thats off my chest I'll save some of you from having to say it.. No I'm not going to cheer for the flyers or ducks or flames. I'm going to continue cheering for the wings and just hope they get some more heart and soul type guys.

[Guest micah]

When it was the captain of the team you are supposedly a fan of you trashed the logic you just used to praise Crosby and said..

You're creeping me out again, e-stalker. Digging through past posts (out of context ones at that, in at least one case one that was 100% in jest) and whatnot.

I would quickly come to Lidstrom's defence if he got s*** on like Crosby does around here. He doesn't, so I don't. It isn't necesarry to remind a board of Wings fans how great Lidstrom is.

[Herr Hockey 0]

God, this is one of those signings that really is as bad as people are making it out to be. My only complaint with Babcock is the fact that he views having two leftys on the point as an "end of the world" scenario. Just give it a damn chance. Schneider and Lidstrom were fine, and plus, it's only the 2nd unit.

[Guest micah]

I believe that it was Cleary that got in a fight with dickhead (Pronger) last year and Pronger tore him up. He missed some games because of it. So, I'm not so sure the Wings should be fighting the dickhead.

I wonder if we'd have won the cup this year if Homer would have been beat up so bad by Pronger that he would have had to sit out the finals. Judging by his play and the useful minutes he took up, I'd say "maybe".

As far as Lids, in case you haven't heard he was a finalist for the Norris Trophy again last year. That points "Mr. declining skills" as no worse than the 3rd best d-men in the entire league.

Yes, he is still a great Dman, maybe the best in the league. Nonetheless, his skills are declining, and I think they are doing so more rapidly than many. Those are not contradictory stances.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Anyone who doesn't think Maltby is a coward clearly hasn't watched many games the last decade. I'd say he's just behind Franzen for biggest coward on the team. I don't see what you non fight crowd have against the people that want fights. I for one am a proud Red Wings fan but wouldn't mind seeing a fight every now and then. Hockey was made to be a rough tough sport and anyone who says you can't have both a good team and a tough team is retarded. Having even one player with balls won't make us go 0-82 like some of you euro lovers seem to think. I'm not even saying some meathead goon is what we need on the 4th line but I'm sick of seeing players with no heart going into scrums throwing gloved punches while hiding behind linesman. Thats cowardly and if anyone tries to deny it theyre blind clearly. I wouldn't mind seeing another cleary type player he actually has a set and can play the game. He doesnt even fight but thats my point he's not a coward like the other half of the wings roster seems to be.

Anyways now that thats off my chest I'll save some of you from having to say it.. No I'm not going to cheer for the flyers or ducks or flames. I'm going to continue cheering for the wings and just hope they get some more heart and soul type guys.

Because of the tone of the posts. Overdramatizations. You people that say people are cowards, have no heart, are ******* etc. are overexaggerating.

The sport is not just a manly contest or proclaiming that I have the bigger fists (or objects 3 feet below them). Do I like a fight or standing up to people? Sure. But this isn't just about macho locker room bulls**t crap to prove who is the toughest or manliest. There are other parts to the game as well. Strategy, scoring, passing the puck, forechecking, etc. as well. Not just a manly contest. And just because somebody isn't always willing to fight or stand up doesn't mean he is a coward, and more often than not I'm betting these guys forget about these kinda things a lot easier than some of the fans. They probably don't care as much as you all do, and it's probably not as important of a goal for them in terms of winning, in terms of the Wings cases I guess. The Wings game isn't going to change anytime soon in all likelihood and when you've been a consistent winner for 15+ straight years and are a legitmate threat to make a deep playoff run every year, it shouldn't have to change all that much. It isn't necessarily a bad thing to walk/skate away sometimes.

Saying that you will root for another team is another dramatization. You may not mean that you are completely abandoning the Wings or whatever but again, the tone of the posts suggests so. It also yields a large sense of spoiledness and being extremely nitpicky, given that the Wings have been so successful for over a decade-plus.

That's why some of the complaints of "fighter fans" go beyond the deep end sometimes, and plenty of times in micah's case as well considering the responses he often gets from his posts portrayed by others, his posts often being of the obnoxious variety.

[Guest micah]

Once I saw Crosby punch a kitten in the throat.

You're an idiot. He only did that to save the kitten's life (the kitten had a crushed windpipe, and Crosby fixed it with a precision tap - you just thought it looked like a punch because you've spent so much time watching Maltby and Franzen that you think high-fives are violent attacks), and if you were paying attention you would have seen that the kitten turned into a golden unicorn shortly after Crosby touched it. I bet you don't even watch hockey.

[Guest micah]

That's why some of the complaints of "fighter fans" go beyond the deep end sometimes, and plenty of times in micah's case as well considering the responses he often gets from his posts portrayed by others, his posts often being of the obnoxious variety.

You gotta consider the people who respond though. If they were people who's oppinions I respected, I might reconsider my statements.

[egroen 384]

Anyone who doesn't think Maltby is a coward clearly hasn't watched many games the last decade. I'd say he's just behind Franzen for biggest coward on the team. I don't see what you non fight crowd have against the people that want fights. I for one am a proud Red Wings fan but wouldn't mind seeing a fight every now and then. Hockey was made to be a rough tough sport and anyone who says you can't have both a good team and a tough team is retarded. Having even one player with balls won't make us go 0-82 like some of you euro lovers seem to think. I'm not even saying some meathead goon is what we need on the 4th line but I'm sick of seeing players with no heart going into scrums throwing gloved punches while hiding behind linesman. Thats cowardly and if anyone tries to deny it theyre blind clearly. I wouldn't mind seeing another cleary type player he actually has a set and can play the game. He doesnt even fight but thats my point he's not a coward like the other half of the wings roster seems to be.

Anyways now that thats off my chest I'll save some of you from having to say it.. No I'm not going to cheer for the flyers or ducks or flames. I'm going to continue cheering for the wings and just hope they get some more heart and soul type guys.

Who is in this "non-fight" crowd anyways?

I know one poster on this board who legitimately does not care for fighting -- Reds4Life.

That's it.

Most posters here love seeing a fight, and would love to have the type of players you describe - but they simply do not let the lack of it ruin the experience of enjoying a good game and a winning team.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

You gotta consider the people who respond though. If they were people who's oppinions I respected, I might reconsider my statements.

And you have to consider you bait people countless times with your posts in these endless and pointless arguments over and over and over again.

[gcom007 1,465]

The thing with Maltby is that he usually had either McCarty, or Kocur out there with him...Those 2 gave Malts a little more bravado.

But Maltby will fight for himself as well. Hell, he got into a fight in his first game with the team after we traded for him from Edmonton.

Of interesting note in regards to that first game, I distinctly remember saying with utmost conviction after the fight as he walked off the ice because his jersey was all torn up: "Kirk Maltby: Red Wing for life."

[newfy 695]

Because of the tone of the posts. Overdramatizations. You people that say people are cowards, have no heart, are ******* etc. are overexaggerating.

The sport is not just a manly contest or proclaiming that I have the bigger fists (or objects 3 feet below them). Do I like a fight or standing up to people? Sure. But this isn't just about macho locker room bulls**t crap to prove who is the toughest or manliest. There are other parts to the game as well. Strategy, scoring, passing the puck, forechecking, etc. as well. Not just a manly contest. And just because somebody isn't always willing to fight or stand up doesn't mean he is a coward, and more often than not I'm betting these guys forget about these kinda things a lot easier than some of the fans. They probably don't care as much as you all do, and it's probably not as important of a goal for them in terms of winning, in terms of the Wings cases I guess. The Wings game isn't going to change anytime soon in all likelihood and when you've been a consistent winner for 15+ straight years and are a legitmate threat to make a deep playoff run every year, it shouldn't have to change all that much. It isn't necessarily a bad thing to walk/skate away sometimes.

Saying that you will root for another team is another dramatization. You may not mean that you are completely abandoning the Wings or whatever but again, the tone of the posts suggests so. It also yields a large sense of spoiledness and being extremely nitpicky, given that the Wings have been so successful for over a decade-plus.

That's why some of the complaints of "fighter fans" go beyond the deep end sometimes, and plenty of times in micah's case as well considering the responses he often gets from his posts portrayed by others, his posts often being of the obnoxious variety.

I'm not complaining about the past decade or so. I'm complaing about the last 3 years or so. The wings were at one point just about the toughest team in the league and extremely successful. We've won with players who will stick up for themselves in the line up and didn't take stupid penalties or mess up our puck possession game. ( see 2008, drake, downey, Mac) If the wings could add one aspect to their game that they already don't have its toughness. What do non fight fans have against having a player that will go maybe take a liberty or 2 on another teams superstar, throw a huge hit, stick up for teammates but can still skate and keep up? Wouldn't be nice to have another Drake out there?

And calling Franzen or Maltby a coward is not an exxageration at all, have you seen these guys play? Franzen could be a freight train out there instead he plays soft. I think it was against Calgary this year, Jimmy Vandermeer punched him and he dropped like he got shot and rolled on the ice for 5 minutes. Thats cowardly.

[egroen 384]

This thread is a perfect example of the chaos that ensues from LGWers actually agreeing on something (Williams sucks). But for the swift degeneration into a fighting argument we may well have set off the apocalypse.

[kook_10 1,705]

I like him, but I think you may be being a little generous about ol' Kirk.

ehhhhh

Edited July 30, 2009 by kook_10

[Guest micah]

Do you do that with your wife?

Your kids?

No. My wife is without blemish and my children excell in all they do.

Actually, for real my wife is super smart. She has the one thing that I look for in people I want to be around; curiosity. Curious people are smart and will do well at everything they do. When you're a curious sort, Calculus isn't hard, Calculus is interesting. My oldest just turned 5. When we walk through our woods he can pick out Elm, Pine, Spruce, Beech, Maple, Oak and Ash trees. Not because I wanted to teach him, but because he wants to know. He knows from 100 yards away whether an old crawler next to an abandoned barn is an Oliver, Deere, International, Cletrac, AC, or Cat. He can tell Lake Trout, Brown Trout, Rainbow Trout and Brook Trout apart. He's got an arm like Clemens - not because he's big for his age or ultra coordinated, but because he wanted to learn how to throw a ball. He will excell in everything he ever does, because he is curious.