Bertuzzi SUCKS

[Guest zackmorris]

I'd say Lidstrom is the only one now. Dats has been playing pretty fricking good lately.

Lidstrom is playing fine. You don't know how to judge good play. Just stop.

[Carman 387]

Lidstrom is playing fine. You don't know how to judge good play. Just stop.

Tied for 63rd in defensive scoring(tied with Marc Staal just fyi) from a Norris Canadian season is not "good play". Especially with the amount of PP and Ice time he gets.

I'm not saying Lidstrom sucks or anything, but he should be playing better in the offensive end. He's been good defensively though.

[Guest zackmorris]

That's not good play? He's shutting down opposing forwards and is playing spectacular defense as he always does.

I'm sorry, would you like Mike Green? Who scores the lights out and looks lost in his own end?

To say Lidstrom isn't playing good because he's not scoring as much is just stupid. For the millionth time, I'm thankful people on this forum don't run this team. The general perspective around here is just shot.

Edited December 18, 2009 by zackmorris

[skyphoenix 153]

Okay, so Lidstrom looks good on defense compared to the rest of the league but he does not look like the normal Lidstrom this season which has always been known for his offensive production.

[Guest zackmorris]

Then it just becomes a matter of properly wording it. He's playing good. He's just not playing up to his usual standards.

There are a few things we have to remember though.

1) He's Nicklas ******* Lidstrom. His standards are aguably the highest his position has ever seen. He's going to slow eventually. Be glad that when he "slows" he's still shutdown. And if shutdown is simply just "good", go be a fan of ANY OTHER TEAM for a little while and see how desperately they want a "good" defenseman.

2) We're online Wings fans. We're pissy babies when it comes to expectations. Our perspective is shot to s*** and we go overboard on everything.

3) Half of our forwards are dinged up. Where do you think his points come from? He's traditionally a guy who gets assists, quite a few of them second assists, from plays made by our forwards. When we started getting hurt, his point total started going down. I think we all look at his age and assume it must be that but he's still making crisp passes, still taking good shots from the point. Lidstrom isn't going to drop off this fast. The more likely scenario is he's suffering from a lack of points for the same reason the rest of the team is. The lack of points isn't because he's lost anything, that much is obvious while watching.

But alas, groupthink reigns as usual.

Edited December 18, 2009 by zackmorris

[Carman 387]

That's not good play? He's shutting down opposing forwards and is playing spectacular defense as he always does.

I'm sorry, would you like Mike Green? Who scores the lights out and looks lost in his own end?

To say Lidstrom isn't playing good because he's not scoring as much is just stupid. For the millionth time, I'm thankful people on this forum don't run this team. The general perspective around here is just shot.

No one is saying trade Lidstrom... They are just commenting that his play is not up to what he was last year. His decline in the offensive side of the puck is a concern because of the amount of offense we have already lost this season. That's all.

[Guest zackmorris]

No one is saying trade Lidstrom... They are just commenting that his play is not up to what he was last year. His decline in the offensive side of the puck is a concern because of the amount of offense we have already lost this season. That's all.

K, first, I didn't accuse anyone of wanting to trade him. Secondly, no, that's not what he said. I commented on him suggesting Lidstrom wasn't playing good. Read my last reply.

[Carman 387]

K, first, I didn't accuse anyone of wanting to trade him. Secondly, no, that's not what he said. I commented on him suggesting Lidstrom wasn't playing good. Read my last reply.

But he isn't playing good for a 7.450 million dollar defenseman. He's not getting paid to just be a great shut down defenseman, we need his production now more then ever. And in your post you are blaming his decline on line mates and injuries. The first PP is pretty much intact(until now=P) and everyone on the line is doing decent enough on the PP except for Lidstrom. His shot lost a lot of velocity and even accuracy. It's pretty obvious Lidstrom is not playing up to Lidstrom standards. I expected decline, but the way he has been struggling in the offensive zone is a concern of mine.

[Guest zackmorris]

I don't consider contract a legit argument when half the team is injured. Injuries are the wildcard that basically rule out any other type of expectations. And yeah the first PP is intact. Technically. But all I hear around here is how Hank and Pav aren't scoring like they used to. Franz is gone and so are alot of ES guys Lids gives passes to for assists. It's an obvious trickle down effect. It's not a hole in his game, it's a hole in the team. I watch Lidstrom and I don't see much of a difference in his play. I see the difference in a team. Don't worry about Lidstrom. When we start getting players back his numbers will see a rise. Our team has hit a streak of a s***-ton of bad coincidences and bad luck. He's not exempt from this.

Edited December 18, 2009 by zackmorris

[Carman 387]

Fine, I just believe your best players should be your best players.

Kronwall still has more points then Lidstrom...

[dobbles 252]

i would like to touch on something that was brought up before the lidstrom debate.

everyone comes in here and bashes the thread and the bertuzzi critics as totally wrong every time bert gets a point. but just because he is playing well right now, doesn't mean the thread wasn't justified, nor that overall for the season that he will end up as a productive player. bertuzzi has 9 points in his last 10 games; a great stretch. and even i think he has looked a lot better. he obviously still isn't going to win a selke for defensive play, but at least he has improved. however, it took him 24 games to get his first 9 points. and during many of those games he looked genuinely disinterested in defensive or neutral zone play.

i think the big thing that can frustrate people when watching bertuzzi is just how streaky he is. last year with calgary he got 5 goals in the first 5 games and fans warmed up to him. but he really went cold down the stretch with only 2 points in the last 13 games. and when he goes cold offensively, it seems as if he doesn't try near as hard. i am not sure which is actually the cause, but to me there seems to be a correlation.

Edited December 18, 2009 by dobbles

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

5 goals in 6 games. Yeah, he's awful!

Bertuzzi= Gun!

and 9 in 34 (or 4 in 30)... that would have been great if not for injuries. However...

Still isn't half as physical as I expect(ed) him to be.

Edited December 18, 2009 by CaliWingsNut

[ShanahanMan 473]

Bertuzzi now tied for 3rd in points along with Homer. Can we really be asking for much more for a 1.25 mil player? I think he's coming along just fine.

As for Lids, people seem to forget he's almost 40. This is the time where even the best players start their eventual decline. It's sad, but it's life.

[Hockeytown_Ryan 122]

Bertuzzi now tied for 3rd in points along with Homer. Can we really be asking for much more for a 1.25 mil player? I think he's coming along just fine.

As for Lids, people seem to forget he's almost 40. This is the time where even the best players start their eventual decline. It's sad, but it's life.

Noone can take away what he has done for sure... lately he has had the hot hand. But what would you expect from a team missing as much as we are..

guys like Eaves are getting more time here cause they are given the time to play and get into a groove and scoring, contributing.

This post is not to bash Bertuzzi.. But to ask the question..... If Given enough time to play, who else can/will step up?

Given enough time to play shouldn't they step up? We are doing what we can do with what we have.

Bertuzzi would not, NOT be putting these numbers up if all the players were still healthy because he would not be getting the ice time, or playing with the players he is.....

my main point is .... Look at this from a point of how much ice time they are getting... Not how much they make.

Edited December 19, 2009 by Hockeytown_Ryan

[Guest zackmorris]

The contract argument seems nice and fair but we fail to think about how many seasons Lidstrom played like a defenseman who deserved far more than 7 million dollars. If he hit the FA market when he signed with us for 7 mil you would've seen a bidding war s***storm ensue. He would've gotten league max, easily and if not, damn close to it. So for all those seasons he played far better than a 7 mil Dman, can't we cut him a little bit of slack when he supposedly plays slightly below that amount? His teammates drop like flies weekly and he's still shutting down opponents better than anyone else in the league today.

Edited December 19, 2009 by zackmorris

[Guest Shoreline]

Bert SUX! Look at how that ice terrorist is being dead weight on this team.

So fun to watch players (who knee-jerk fans are so quick to take a s*** on) score and topics like this get a bump.

The way the thread is heading now, I fully expect a Lidstrom SUX topic soon. Some people will just never be content with their team, and damn it's enjoyable to make fun of 'em.

Edited December 19, 2009 by Shoreline

[titanium2 867]

Bert SUX! Look at how that ice terrorist is being dead weight on this team.

So fun to watch players (who knee-jerk fans are so quick to take a s*** on) score and topics like this get a bump.

The way the thread is heading now, I fully expect a Lidstrom SUX topic soon. Some people will just never be content with their team, and damn it's enjoyable to make fun of 'em.

Haven't see you on here in a while. Then again I'm pretty hot and cold these days too.

Man I really hope not in regards to the Lidstrom thread. He hasn't played that bad to deserve that.

One of these days someone will start a "Stevie Y is overrated" thread and that guy is going to get it. Hard.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

10 points in 5 2/3 games now. Whats up?

[titanium2 867]

I think someone should start a "Lebda is lazy and he sucks" thread the way things have been going on around lgw.

[dobbles 252]

10 points in 5 2/3 games now. Whats up?

we get it, he's had a good 10 games. but the point of this thread was that for the first 30 he was pretty brutal.

for all the whining that goes on about how absurd this thread is, there are 10 times more posts when he has 1 good game than when he had 10 bad ones.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

we get it, he's had a good 10 games. but the point of this thread was that for the first 30 he was pretty brutal.

for all the whining that goes on about how absurd this thread is, there are 10 times more posts when he has 1 good game than when he had 10 bad ones.

But the funny thing is... He wasen't that bad his first 30. He could have easily doubled his point production if he missed a few posts. I just don't get what some expect out of a 1.5 million player.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

But the funny thing is... He wasen't that bad his first 30. He could have easily doubled his point production if he missed a few posts. I just don't get what some expect out of a 1.5 million player.

Exactly, he isnt getting paid the big bucks to score. He gets paid to play on the 3rd line, instead because of injuries he's contributing on the top line. Plus, if not for some posts he'd be leading the team in goals. Bertuzzi has been great all year, anyone on the guy didnt watch him last year, his hustle and defensive awareness is so much better it's not even funny.

[dobbles 252]

But the funny thing is... He wasen't that bad his first 30. He could have easily doubled his point production if he missed a few posts. I just don't get what some expect out of a 1.5 million player.

it has been explained many, many times already in this thread. if you still can't read, its not my job to explain it to you...

[teebo 22]

it has been explained many, many times already in this thread. if you still can't read, its not my job to explain it to you...

huh? it hasnt been explained at all, people expected him to be on the first line and score 30 goals. he's been playing well all year.

[Miller Brew 0]

I'm 2-1 with my player predictions so far this season.

I predicted Bert would be a beast in the Red Wings uniform, and he's been a freaking beast on fire!

I predicted Howard would shut the nay-sayers up. He has performed like a seasoned NHL goalie, and winning despite Wings $33 million dollar roster.

I predicted Leino would be a 12-15 goal scorer and getting 30-35 points. I failed with that prediction.

That said, I never predicted this team go through such adversity, and if I did, I would have predicted Wings would struggle. I am so f'ing proud of this team. This team is freaking amazing!