The Chris Osgood discussion thread

[stuck in socal 56]

What is this mass explosion of a thread!

[miller76 463]

Maybe cause Mike, for all his other faults, is a performance based coach. Osgood spent all of last season crapping the bed, and this season, while not exactly crapping, has laid a few wet farts in the sheets.

This quote is signature worthy!

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Maybe cause Mike, for all his other faults, is a performance based coach. Osgood spent all of last season crapping the bed, and this season, while not exactly crapping, has laid a few wet farts in the sheets.

If that is the case Osgood would have started more games when he WAS doing well.

[gcom007 1,465]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/318486-...ew-role-on-team

That's easily one of the stupidest articles I've read, even considering that it's written by a FAN on a fan website. So typical though of the countless nitwits that know far too well how to blow their horn all year long about how horrid of a goalie Osgood is before blowing their load over how great he is once the playoffs role around.

And the guy is utterly and completely out of his mind in suggesting that Osgood's playoff performances have been boosted by the offensive-heavy teams in front of him. Did he watch any games last year or follow our team at all? Perhaps I should send this guy my HD recordings of the entire playoff run, as I have little doubt that he either didn't watch any games or is just as stupid as he sounds. Or maybe both. There's a very, very, very good reason why nearly every media outlet talking hockey at the time expected Osgood to win the Conn Smythe Trophy if the Wings had won the Cup.

Hell, he even took s*** a few years ago when Hasek was around and Osgood was an All Star too...

It doesn't really bother me on any sort of emotional level, and I know it doesn't bother Osgood. But none the less, I'm still forever flummoxed by how ridiculous people can be when assessing, or perhaps more accurately, vilifying Osgood. You won't find me suggesting that he had a great regular season last year as he blatantly was terrible until the last month or so, but that really was the exception season. I know plenty of you will argue, but it's the same old crap as it's always been. It never made sense before and it doesn't make sense now.

I've got two things to say, and as always, quote me on it when it counts.

1) Osgood will dominate once again in the playoffs and you all will be kissing his ass and championing him to the heavens, at least so long as our offense scores enough goals to win. (I think we'll be fine...) Quote me on that one in June.

2) Osgood will eventually be heralded and appreciated for all that he's done in his career. It's going to take a good five years most likely though after he retires before the most fervent of you wise up and see how lucky we've had it. Quote me on it when the day comes. I don't know when it will be, but I assure you, the day will come.

No one ever wants to give Osgood his due. It's nothing new, and it's always silly. He only gets let off the hook in the playoffs when winning really matters and for a few months, people get realistic about how valuable he is and has been to this team. In the regular season when it's not really "do or die," it's a lot easier to hate Osgood and beg for the other guy to start.

But when it counts, you little people always come around for the ride.

Same as it ever was...

[Zetts 236]

The thread subtitle, "starting to get ugly" more accurately refers to this thread itself than Osgood's situation.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

The thread subtitle, "starting to get ugly" more accurately refers to this thread itself than Osgood's situation.

Game. Set. Match.

[blankrap 9]

This time last year Conklin had started 8 of 9 and then 11 out of 14? Sound familiar?

Ty Conklin will start in net for the eighth time in the past nine games and 11th time in the past 14.

[Guest zackmorris]

I'm going to break this down really sloooooowwwwwwly for you, since you seem to be struggling with the gist of my argument.

In watching the Games, I don't believe that he IS "playing better" than Osgood.

Then you're f***in blind. That slow enough for you?

I dunno where this topic went since I last posted in it but if you think Ozzie's been playing better than Howard, you are, for a fact, higher than a kite.

You can just tell who the blind Ozzie supporters are. It's just proof personal bias and affinities towards favorite players is more important than the best interests of the team. Gcom, Outsider, people like that. We get it. He's your favorite player. He's a likable guy, easy to get behind. He has practically everything the aw-shucks home town boy could have and we love him. But you guys are just not being real about this.

Fact remains, in 5 years, Osgood will be long gone and never coming back. And Howard, if he remains at the pace he is, will be a goalie we pay big bucks to in order to be our big name goaltender. It's clearly more important to start Howard, ESPECIALLY IF HE'S PLAYING BETTER.

So you know what Ozzie? Yeah, you might know more about goaltending than Mike Babcock. But he knows a hell of alot more about coaching than you do, probably more than you know about wearing pads. And when he makes a decision like this, shut the f*** up and accept it. You took starts from other goalies better than you before, what's with the whining now?

The absolute worst time you can take starts away from Howard is now. He's young, just getting used to wearing the wheel and he's earning his keep. Big time. If you take starts away now, you may plant a seed od doubt that'd be tremendously difficult to remove. He may never have confidence in the coaching staff that his job is safe and it may show in his play on the ice. You can tell me he should be stronger but that's idealistic bulls***. He's a baby at 25, and maybe 18-20 in NHL years. And he's human. He needs these starts and Babcock knows it. A coach who has shown in the past he will let anyone who is playing well, play more. Do you really think it's a conspiracy against Ozzie? Which seems more realistic to you? What about when Dom got yanked? Where was the conspiracy then?

Edited January 5, 2010 by zackmorris

[russianswede919293 95]

Howard is on fire right now. Ozzie will get his time to get back between the posts. I still think Ozzie will be the starter come playoff time. But Howard NEEDS this time for if Ozzie is injured or not ready to play come playoff time.

Overall Howard's run here is better for this team overall in the long run.

Keep it going Jimbo.

[russianswede919293 95]

Also Howard is top 10 in GAA and SV%. So yes he is playing better.

In fact he is one of the best in the league right now.

[55fan 5,133]

So basically the above-linked article is taking the parts that can be blown out of proportion and blowing them, whilst leaving the positive quotes out, and then putting words and emotions in Ozzie's mouth.

We should issue that blogger an invite to join here. He'd fit right in.

[egroen 384]

That's easily one of the stupidest articles I've read, even considering that it's written by a FAN on a fan website. So typical though of the countless nitwits that know far too well how to blow their horn all year long about how horrid of a goalie Osgood is before blowing their load over how great he is once the playoffs role around.

And the guy is utterly and completely out of his mind in suggesting that Osgood's playoff performances have been boosted by the offensive-heavy teams in front of him. Did he watch any games last year or follow our team at all? Perhaps I should send this guy my HD recordings of the entire playoff run, as I have little doubt that he either didn't watch any games or is just as stupid as he sounds. Or maybe both. There's a very, very, very good reason why nearly every media outlet talking hockey at the time expected Osgood to win the Conn Smythe Trophy if the Wings had won the Cup.

Hell, he even took s*** a few years ago when Hasek was around and Osgood was an All Star too...

It doesn't really bother me on any sort of emotional level, and I know it doesn't bother Osgood. But none the less, I'm still forever flummoxed by how ridiculous people can be when assessing, or perhaps more accurately, vilifying Osgood. You won't find me suggesting that he had a great regular season last year as he blatantly was terrible until the last month or so, but that really was the exception season. I know plenty of you will argue, but it's the same old crap as it's always been. It never made sense before and it doesn't make sense now.

I've got two things to say, and as always, quote me on it when it counts.

1) Osgood will dominate once again in the playoffs and you all will be kissing his ass and championing him to the heavens, at least so long as our offense scores enough goals to win. (I think we'll be fine...) Quote me on that one in June.

2) Osgood will eventually be heralded and appreciated for all that he's done in his career. It's going to take a good five years most likely though after he retires before the most fervent of you wise up and see how lucky we've had it. Quote me on it when the day comes. I don't know when it will be, but I assure you, the day will come.

No one ever wants to give Osgood his due. It's nothing new, and it's always silly. He only gets let off the hook in the playoffs when winning really matters and for a few months, people get realistic about how valuable he is and has been to this team. In the regular season when it's not really "do or die," it's a lot easier to hate Osgood and beg for the other guy to start.

But when it counts, you little people always come around for the ride.

Same as it ever was...

Yeah, the part about the offense carrying Osgood in the playoffs is pretty dumb... I think he had him confused with Fleury - Not too often will you see a Stanley Cup winning goalie with a .908 SV% nowadays.

[b.shanafan14 733]

I love how well Howard is doing in goal. He has been a huge revelation and I doubt anyone honestly expected it given his prodigy status since like 2005 followed up with inconsistent AHL play. He's played incredible most nights and has earned most of his starts.

That said, its hard to look at some of the games Osgood as played this season and say he hasn't played well enough to start more than 1 game in every 10. I think he has every right to be pretty peeved at the situation. Howard has played out of his mind, but thats never stopped Babcock from cycling in the other guy before (2007-2008, Hasek really spent the whole year significantly worse than Osgood, and yet he was still the guy until he almost lost it for us against Nashville). I'm not saying necessarily that seniority should be the determining factor, but even when Ozzy does play well and Howard doesn't, Osgood is still set at his 1 game in 6-8 since about the beginning of November.

Great example was the game against Dallas on the front end of a back-to-back. Datsyuks line got double-shifted the whole night, and along with the Helm line the offense played out of their minds good, but Howard let in a few softies for sure (4 on 21 shots) and the Wings didn't end up with a point for their efforts. Probably Howard's worst game of the season, a must-win not based on the opponent, but based on the play of team, with its best players being double-shifted on the front end of a back-to-back.

Osgood started against Chicago the next night, with a lineup completely gassed from the night before and they get shutout 0-3 against a Hawks team that came to play. Not Osgood's fault by a long-shot, in fact, he may have been the only player who showed up, but he allowed 3 goals on 35 shots and the Wings couldn't get a sniff. And almost as if to prove Ozzy isn't getting a fair look, Howard loses 3 days later 0-3 on a couple less shots. In both case, the goaltender is the last one to blame, but that game against Chicago was the last time we saw Ozzy in goal.

I love what Howard is doing for the team and I hope he keeps it up, but we need to cycle in Osgood more than one every 6-8 games and then use that "he's played like crap" as an excuse, because that is very far off. Howard hasn't been without his off nights and nothing Osgood does in goal seems to earn him another start within a two week span. Just irritates me as a fan when Babcock says "we need to get Ozzy going" but has no real intention to do so.

Edited January 5, 2010 by b.shanafan14

[Vladifan 680]

I love how well Howard is doing in goal. He has been a huge revelation and I doubt anyone honestly expected it given his prodigy status since like 2005 followed up with inconsistent AHL play. He's played incredible most nights and has earned most of his starts.

That said, its hard to look at some of the games Osgood as played this season and say he hasn't played well enough to start more than 1 game in every 10. I think he has every right to be pretty peeved at the situation. Howard has played out of his mind, but thats never stopped Babcock from cycling in the other guy before (2007-2008, Hasek really spent the whole year significantly worse than Osgood, and yet he was still the guy until he almost lost it for us against Nashville). I'm not saying necessarily that seniority should be the determining factor, but even when Ozzy does play well and Howard doesn't, Osgood is still set at his 1 game in 6-8 since about the beginning of November.

Great example was the game against Dallas on the front end of a back-to-back. Datsyuks line got double-shifted the whole night, and along with the Helm line the offense played out of their minds good, but Howard let in a few softies for sure (4 on 21 shots) and the Wings didn't end up with a point for their efforts. Probably Howard's worst game of the season, a must-win not based on the opponent, but based on the play of team, with its best players being double-shifted on the front end of a back-to-back.

Osgood started against Chicago the next night, with a lineup completely gassed from the night before and they get shutout 0-3 against a Hawks team that came to play. Not Osgood's fault by a long-shot, in fact, he may have been the only player who showed up, but he allowed 3 goals on 35 shots and the Wings couldn't get a sniff. And almost as if to prove Ozzy isn't getting a fair look, Howard loses 3 days later 0-3 on a couple less shots. In both case, the goaltender is the last one to blame, but that game against Chicago was the last time we saw Ozzy in goal.

I love what Howard is doing for the team and I hope he keeps it up, but we need to cycle in Osgood more than one every 6-8 games and then use that "he's played like crap" as an excuse, because that is very far off. Howard hasn't been without his off nights and nothing Osgood does in goal seems to earn him another start within a two week span. Just irritates me as a fan when Babcock says "we need to get Ozzy going" but has no real intention to do so.

The bottom line has to be that if Babcock continues to mostly play Howard and throws Ozzie in now and then, it is simply not good for the long-term results for the Detroit Red Wings this season. As much as I love and appreciate Babcock, there's no other way around this argument.

[StormJH1 231]

Osgood is the only supposed future Hall of Fame goalie I've ever heard of that needs this much "motivation" and this much time to "get going". All goalies have blips in play, but most of those "blips" don't last an entire season (last year) and to a lesser, but still significant extent, this entire season to date.

The fact that he said this about Babcock doesn't seem too professional to me. In fact, over the past couple of years, he really hasn't been acting like a motivated professional. The fact that he couldn't get motivated for a whole season last year? And now talking like this? I appreciate everything he's done for the organization, but these things still make me lose respect for him.

I love what he does for the playoffs, but there should not be this much of a struggle with him every regular season. Maybe he's not so low-maintenance anymore.

Edit: And, for the record I'm not talking in comparison to Jimmy Howard. He's not what this conversation is about. I don't care who's played what teams. Fact is, as a supposed "elite" goaltender, Osgood shouldn't suffer against the good teams. His numbers simply aren't good enough, whether you choose to look at Howard or not.

Just to further clarify as well, I'm not suggesting that we trade Osgood. Or that he retires. Just that he thinks about this a little more and gets his act together.

I linked to this post b/c you hit a nerve with the potential HoF'er jab, but as someone who has argued that he's a strong candidate for the HoF, it pains me to say that you're right. The more we see of this, the tougher it is to use "elite" and "Osgood" anywhere in the same sentence.

I think Howard has to play right now. If you watch the games, he IS playing better. Sitting Osgood now keeps him fresh for later AND lights a fire under his ass, which is critical since "the playoffs" are going to start for this team in February, not April. If we're fighting for an 8th seed, we don't have the luxury of waiting for Chris Osgood to be interested enough to play great in goal. Howard has done his part over the past month or two to keep the team competitive, and we can only hope that he continues to do so when the other skill players return, so that we can become something better than a .500 team.

[russianswede919293 95]

The bottom line has to be that if Babcock continues to mostly play Howard and throws Ozzie in now and then, it is simply not good for the long-term results for the Detroit Red Wings this season. As much as I love and appreciate Babcock, there's no other way around this argument.

I agree that Ozzie needs to get going on a regular schedule. But to get Ozzie going it might take a loss or two until he is going since he has been cold. The Wings are not in a position where they can afford to lose games, especially against the opponents they are playing (Colorado, Phoenix were the last 2 and LA and Dallas are coming up).

San Jose, New York and Carolina are 3 games in a row followed by Dallas (another must win) and then Chicago.

I expect Ozzie to play in San Jose, then probably at home against Carolina. If he plays well he may earn Dallas or Chicago.

Ozzie will get games. This is an unfamiliar place for Ozzie, and Babcock and Detroit. In the past if Ozzie was struggling they could take a few games to get him going again. The Wings are outside of the playoffs looking in. They don't have that luxury right now.

If there is a colder goalie and a hotter goalie, right now every game is a must win game and every point is important, so the hotter goalie will play. As long as Howard keeps getting the team points its hard to justify not playing him. Because a couple games of Ozzie not so sharp before getting sharp could be a couple of points...and a couple of points could be the playoffs.

Right now the Howard over Ozzie is 100% based on the fact that Howard is winning games when games need to be won. Yes Ozzie has to get going, but really when he was off kilter that first game after being sick Howard was already rolling, and Howie hasn't stopped.

There are 3 ways Ozzie gets consistent game action right now:

1) Howard gets cold

2) Ozzie plays very well in one of his games and steals a victory

3) The Wings gain some leverage point wise in the conference and can afford to let Ozzie take the time to get going

[Echolalia 2,961]

The bottom line has to be that if Babcock continues to mostly play Howard and throws Ozzie in now and then, it is simply not good for the long-term results for the Detroit Red Wings this season. As much as I love and appreciate Babcock, there's no other way around this argument.

Unfortunately the team is caught between a rock and a hard place. Ideally Babs would ride the hot goalie but still allow Ozzie to get some games here and there to freshen him up and hopefully reduce the amount of softies that he's prone to make, however the Wings are currently in a dog-fight for a playoff spot and every win is absolutely crucial. I'm not trying to put words into Babs' mouth or pretend like I understand his reasoning, but at the very least Howard is consistently giving the team a chance to win every night, which in my opinion is what we need the most. Ultimately, the second Jimmy goofs up or we get higher in the standings (see: comfortable playoff spot if possible) I expect to see Ozzie get the nod more.

[b.shanafan14 733]

Unfortunately the team is caught between a rock and a hard place. Ideally Babs would ride the hot goalie but still allow Ozzie to get some games here and there to freshen him up and hopefully reduce the amount of softies that he's prone to make, however the Wings are currently in a dog-fight for a playoff spot and every win is absolutely crucial. I'm not trying to put words into Babs' mouth or pretend like I understand his reasoning, but at the very least Howard is consistently giving the team a chance to win every night, which in my opinion is what we need the most. Ultimately, the second Jimmy goofs up or we get higher in the standings (see: comfortable playoff spot if possible) I expect to see Ozzie get the nod more.

I understand this argument, but the issue this whole season has never once been goaltending. As hot as Howard has been, his great play has stolen us a few games, but goaltending has only really lost as 3 or 4. The Wings' biggest problem is consistent scoring. The Wings are going to want Osgood to be the man later in the season and going into the playoffs IF they get there, which isn't going to happen with Osgood riding pine half of the season. There has always been a huge flaw in the 'hot hand plays' goaltending arrangement, especially since before this season it was never Babcock's way.

Like it or not, Chris Osgood is the Wings' best hope come the spring time and has more than earned a respectable split of the starts. He hasn't played horrible like parts of last season and hasn't been given the opportunity Howard has been to play stellar. The key to the Wings' getting into the playoffs doesn't lie in net, it lies with the 18 skaters in front that have been shut out 6 times already this season (15%) and are in the bottom 1/3 of the league in Goals For.

As injured players return, the offensive woes will take care of themselves. Osgood deserves more starts and this team really needs him to get those starts.

[StormJH1 231]

I understand this argument, but the issue this whole season has never once been goaltending. As hot as Howard has been, his great play has stolen us a few games, but goaltending has only really lost as 3 or 4. The Wings' biggest problem is consistent scoring. The Wings are going to want Osgood to be the man later in the season and going into the playoffs IF they get there, which isn't going to happen with Osgood riding pine half of the season. There has always been a huge flaw in the 'hot hand plays' goaltending arrangement, especially since before this season it was never Babcock's way.

The only reason it hasn't been his way is because the team has traditionally played well enough that the Playoffs (and even the Central) have been a foregone conclusion. The "hot hand" arrangement was certainly the case when Hasek got yanked from the Nashville series in '08 and Osgood became the guy from then on (people basically remember that as "Osgood's Cup" now and forget that Hasek was even on the team).

The difference between now and any other year Babcock has coached is that our "Playoffs" are going to start around the trading deadline. If we're still 3 points out of the 8th spot come March, Babcock won't have the luxury of taking a peek to see if Osgood is on his game. 80% of the arguments on this board operate on the assumption that the Wings will make the playoffs (which they very well might). But with the point system the way it is, it can be a pain in the ass trying to make up even the slightest of margins when Bettman is handing out free points for overtime losses to the teams ahead of you. Whoever plays better in goal NEEDS to keep playing.

And even if you concern is that Osgood HAS to be the guy in the Playoffs so we need to get him ready, you need to forget about that. I think people also forget how unlikely it was that Chris Osgood played as well as he did in the '09 playoffs, given the fact that he was arguably the worst starting or platoon goaltender in the NHL during the regular season. He was basically Hasek's understudy in 2008 and Osgood and Conklin were 1 and 1A in 2009, so obviously Ozzie is not dependent on "steady" regular season work to prepare for the playoffs.

Edited January 5, 2010 by StormJH1

[DangleDangleBeach 16]

Howard's been letting in more and more weak goals lately too. Again, I'm not saying that to knock, I'm just saying, this isn't as one-sided as so many think. And when you let Osgood get frustrated on the bench, all the while getting cold and struggling to find a rhythm, and then put him in a game and have him play well only to be sent back to the bench for 4-5 games (it's happened at least a couple times lately)...

Well, then it really should be no surprise that he'd struggle a bit against a team like Chicago. But Osgood struggles and comes back and tends to have a killer "next game." But he hasn't had a "next game" in far, far too long, despite deserving one on multiple occasions.

That's not on Howard's great play, nor on Osgood's supposed "weak" play. That's Mike Babcock making some stupid decisions.

as long as howard continues to give the chance to win why not keep him in? in his last 12 he has only let in 18 goals which is good for a 1.67 gaa and the games he has been in when we have lost he did everything to get the win but score goals. howard is playing solid, is the goalie of the future so why not let him get comfortable in the net since he will be here in 5 years, (idealy) and ozzie wont.

teams gameplans against the wings while howard is in net is completely thrown off... in the past to beat the wings all you had to do was put everything at the net and ozzie was good for 1-2 cheesers and would get outplayed by the other goalie more often then not regardless of the team winning of losing. howard doesn't let in those cheesers once per game like ozzie did and has outplayed anderson and bryzgalov in his last two starts which have been two of the better goalies in the west for their respective teams. you actually have to work to put something behind him and their gameplan of throw everything at the net is not as effective as it was prior to having him in net.

[Dynheart 42]

While I agree you need to play the hot goaltender, you just can't let your play-off goalie sit and rott. Ozzie needs to get a rythym going...His last 2 starts (Nashville and Chicago I believe) he was great. So he let in 3 goals against chicago...out of 35...and he was COLD. Let's not forget Howard who also let in 3 with less shots against. Regardless, it is what it is...and if Babcock thinks Ozzie can post a shut out, or let in one goal out of 30+ shots after sitting for 2 weeks? He has some crazy expectations. I can also garantee that if Howard was getting 1 game every 4-6 starts, his stats whouldn't be anywhere near what they are now. Rythym for a goalie is THAT important.

I just hope Babcock starts getting Ozzie in there more, and not blame him for a loss (like he did against chicago...said he took the wind out of us which is funny because we were getting out shot 2 to 1 if not more in the first and Ozzie only let in 1...and the Offense didn't produce...in short, Chicago dominated us because the team couldn't get their act together).

I've seen it in this thread already, and I'll just repeat it...goal tending (yes this also includes Ozzie) is NOT the issue. First quater of the year it was the defense. Now that's pretty much owning now (something like a 92% PK now the last 60ish penalties) our offense took a dip. We lead the league in being shut out...6 times...that 6 times the Offense cost us points, not the goalies.

In the end, Ozzie does have an argument. Although I may not agree with this method, I believe there's justification.

[Vladifan 680]

I understand this argument, but the issue this whole season has never once been goaltending. As hot as Howard has been, his great play has stolen us a few games, but goaltending has only really lost as 3 or 4. The Wings' biggest problem is consistent scoring. The Wings are going to want Osgood to be the man later in the season and going into the playoffs IF they get there, which isn't going to happen with Osgood riding pine half of the season. There has always been a huge flaw in the 'hot hand plays' goaltending arrangement, especially since before this season it was never Babcock's way.

Like it or not, Chris Osgood is the Wings' best hope come the spring time and has more than earned a respectable split of the starts. He hasn't played horrible like parts of last season and hasn't been given the opportunity Howard has been to play stellar. The key to the Wings' getting into the playoffs doesn't lie in net, it lies with the 18 skaters in front that have been shut out 6 times already this season (15%) and are in the bottom 1/3 of the league in Goals For.

As injured players return, the offensive woes will take care of themselves. Osgood deserves more starts and this team really needs him to get those starts.

I also agree with Echolia and russianswede about the current consistency with Howard, but the bolded line is indeed the other bottom line. I just forgot to mention it before.

Edited January 5, 2010 by Vladifan

[russianswede919293 95]

I also agree with Echolia and russianswede about the current consistency with Howard, but the bolded line is indeed the other bottom line. I just forgot to mention it before.

But the bolded line makes the other point applicable.

As long as the Wings are having scoring issues the goalie that is letting in almost 0.5 less goals a game will play...

If scoring picks up its easier to give Ozzie that chance, but while games are being won 2-1 and 3-2 its important to have the hotter goalie in to keep the game attainable for the struggling offense.

[gcom007 1,465]

as long as howard continues to give the chance to win why not keep him in? in his last 12 he has only let in 18 goals which is good for a 1.67 gaa and the games he has been in when we have lost he did everything to get the win but score goals. howard is playing solid, is the goalie of the future so why not let him get comfortable in the net since he will be here in 5 years, (idealy) and ozzie wont.

teams gameplans against the wings while howard is in net is completely thrown off... in the past to beat the wings all you had to do was put everything at the net and ozzie was good for 1-2 cheesers and would get outplayed by the other goalie more often then not regardless of the team winning of losing. howard doesn't let in those cheesers once per game like ozzie did and has outplayed anderson and bryzgalov in his last two starts which have been two of the better goalies in the west for their respective teams. you actually have to work to put something behind him and their gameplan of throw everything at the net is not as effective as it was prior to having him in net.

There are a lot of people on Wall Street who think the same way; in government too...

Maybe it's simply because I spent four years as an economics and history double-major (before changing to music of all things...), but that was the first example that came to mind. If there's one thing I've learned in life thus far, it's that balance is important. When things are going well, it's easy to think "hey, let's just ride this out" without thinking about the inevitable rebound in the other direction. The same can be said for when things are going bad. It's easy to get anxious to want to get out of a s*** spot and try to cheat your way out as opposed to learning from the situation and growing back stronger.

We live in a society that is infinitely more focused on immediate, short run results as opposed to long run results. It'd be alright if not for the fact that the short run stuff is all incredibly volatile and meaningless in terms of giving an accurate insight into the actual value of something or someone. Only time tells that, and it takes time to develop strong people and products that are built for careers. These principles reign true in sports, business, relationships, whatever.

And when you get real focused on the short run, it's easy to miss important details. For example, it's clear that while Howard's goaltending certainly helps, what makes or breaks this team is scoring. It's also clear that despite his strong numbers, he still has many notable weaknesses present in his game, most notably rebound/puck control and he's also caught out of position too often. But the numbers are good and we need wins more than we have before, so who cares about the fact that goalies aren't losing or really winning us games? And who cares that we could be setting Howard up to fail by putting too much pressure on him early?

Why do so many goalies start out so strong in this league only to fizzle away almost as soon as they arrive? Because they start out too fast with too much pressure. It's incredibly easy to be a flash in the pan type of goalie when too much is put on you early on. The same can be really said of any skater out there too, though it's particularly true with goalies as their games are so much reliant on strong mental development.

So you say you want Howard here in 5 years? I'd like that too. I honestly am not convinced yet that he will be for a number of reasons, and most of them have to do with the way he's been played this season. I think it's too much pressure too fast and I think for as well as he's playing, he's being given too many chances to get into a slump which is not something he needs to be dealing with as a rookie. I've discussed it again and again in this thread so I won't get into it again, but you can easily find a clear explanation of why I think it's unwise to start Howard so much so early.

One reason I haven't discussed yet as it pertains to his long-term plans with the team has to do with contracts. He's a rookie and he's starting like crazy and doing well. If he keeps playing well, he'll get signed again for a bit and it'll be fine. But will he be a Chris Osgood in a few years who plays for "team" money? Especially if another guy comes in and gets hot for awhile and Babcock starts playing games with him. What's to stop him from going to a team offering more money and a bigger role? Not much if you don't build them up slow.

Hell, what's to stop him from pricing himself out of a reasonable contract with us after one good year? Do you really want to pay a 26 year old goalie who's had a shaky development $3 million-plus per year after his rookie season, knowing full well how often goalies lose their edge in this league and slip away? I sure don't. I really like what Howard's been doing and I'd love for him to be the next long-term Wings goalie, but I don't think he's getting set up for personal success let alone team or contract success the way things are going.

Too much, too fast is never the right way to go about attaining long term success.

[gcom007 1,465]

I agree that Ozzie needs to get going on a regular schedule. But to get Ozzie going it might take a loss or two until he is going since he has been cold. The Wings are not in a position where they can afford to lose games, especially against the opponents they are playing (Colorado, Phoenix were the last 2 and LA and Dallas are coming up).

San Jose, New York and Carolina are 3 games in a row followed by Dallas (another must win) and then Chicago.

I expect Ozzie to play in San Jose, then probably at home against Carolina. If he plays well he may earn Dallas or Chicago.

Ozzie will get games. This is an unfamiliar place for Ozzie, and Babcock and Detroit. In the past if Ozzie was struggling they could take a few games to get him going again. The Wings are outside of the playoffs looking in. They don't have that luxury right now.

If there is a colder goalie and a hotter goalie, right now every game is a must win game and every point is important, so the hotter goalie will play. As long as Howard keeps getting the team points its hard to justify not playing him. Because a couple games of Ozzie not so sharp before getting sharp could be a couple of points...and a couple of points could be the playoffs.

Right now the Howard over Ozzie is 100% based on the fact that Howard is winning games when games need to be won. Yes Ozzie has to get going, but really when he was off kilter that first game after being sick Howard was already rolling, and Howie hasn't stopped.

There are 3 ways Ozzie gets consistent game action right now:

1) Howard gets cold

2) Ozzie plays very well in one of his games and steals a victory

3) The Wings gain some leverage point wise in the conference and can afford to let Ozzie take the time to get going

Osgood doesn't need to get going. He hasn't been playing his best, but he hasn't been playing poorly either. This argument is tired and it really makes no sense. Again, we're not losing many games because of goaltending. We didn't lose to Chicago because of Osgood (who still posted a save % in the .900's against one of the best teams in the league). He didn't play his best game and the 3rd goal was really soft, but at the end of the day, we didn't score a single goal and go watch the 3rd again if you think Osgood really played a lousy game overall.

Howard's outplaying Osgood especially if you're just going by numbers, but we're not losing games because of goaltending. That's the bottom line. It's not worth it to have such an unbalanced goaltending situation right now when that's the case. When you know Osgood is your playoff starter, it's beyond stupid to have him sitting for six games straight. He's lucky if he gets one start a week lately. That's just stupid.

Again, look at tonight. Howard had a s***ty first period but we're ultimately losing because we still haven't scored a goal. We'll get the scoring going as we get guys back, but opening the doors to problems with both goalies down the stretch the way it's going now.