Don Cherry pissed off

[newfy 695]

There are Canadians on every NHL team. There are Swedes on most NHL teams. I am aware of a country's natural bias. I'm sure that in Sweden everyone thinks that a Swede is the best player in the world, as I'm sure it is the same in Russia and pretty much everywhere else. Canada has selected Crosby as the best player in the world. They can if they want, I am sure that they believe that he is the best player. Just as I am sure that a lot of Red Wing fans are homers in thinking that a Red Wing is the best player in the NHL.

I just was saying that the Canadians are much more interested in their teams because they think that their teams are better BECAUSE they are Canadian. The Habs and the Leafs are the greatest teams of all time because Canadians say so. Bring up that neither have enjoyed recent successes and you are shouted down by the number of Cups and the goals and points and the Original Six and made for TV movies and the legends and yada yada yada...

That was Bettman not Canada and I'm pretty sure Bettman is from like New york or Jersey. And when was the last time you were in Canada? Where I'm from which is pretty damn close to Toronto, noone thinks the leafs are the greatest team ever.

Have you picked up a Toronto newspaper after a leafs game? Nine times out of 10 it is ripping the team apart. Noone thinks Canadian teams are better because theyre CANADIAN you're just being ignorant to prove a point, noone even thinks Canadian teams are better. TSN covers Canadian teams because they're a Canadian channel. What would a person from Canada rather watch highlights from... A San Jose vs Dallas game or a battle of Alberta or Ontario?

Oh and anyone who thinks any countries has a hockey development program even close to Canada's better check their facts.

[Tane 17]

I don't think that Canada is the odds on favorite, Canadians do. I think that the Russians will end up with the gold, Canada silver, and Sweden bronze over Finland, USA 5th. It is the unusual amount of "homerism" that I find amusing with Canadians regarding their Olympic teams and their NHL teams as well. Example, the Wings-Sharks game highlights on TSN.ca were 45 seconds long, the Nucks-Flames were 2 minutes 45 seconds long. Now I know that the Canadian game had a few fights and a sniper during the game but I'm pretty sure that unless the Wings are playing another Canadian team I will have to rely on Yahoo! for real highlights of Wings games, but the Leafs-Anybody game will have ample highlights of missed passes and wristshot saves from the point. More examples, every game with a Canadian team had highlights over 2 minutes, every other game under 2 minutes and a couple under one minute. That includes the Caps game where 9 goals were scored.

I'm tired of typing. Just argue again and I'll respond when I'm ready.

Personally I think Ovechkin's the world's best player. I'd Put Crosby and Malkin at 2a and 2b. They choose to be great at different times, It seems. The Next tier of greatness includes Thornton, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Heatley, Lecavalier, etc.

I'm a Wings Fan, But you need to Understand, in Canada, we don't exactly have Fox Sports Detroit, Fox Sports Chicago, Fox Sports Bay Area, MSG Network YES, etc. etc.

We have TSN.

It's Kinda like Fox Sports net Canada. That's why it focuses on all Canadian teams, it's the Home network for all of Cananda. It would be like complaining that Fox Sports Detroit focuses 20 minutes on a red wings game and only a few minutes on the rest of the NHL.

We Have Regional Sportsnets but it only covers 4 regions. Ontario, East, West and Pacific. Sports net isn't at the Quality of Fox sports, or can even hold a Candle to TSN. So as a Wings fan that gets their NHL highlights from TSN, and No access to Fox sports Detroit, it's very frustrating following the Detroit teams. But you've gotta Understand, there is not Fox Sports Toronto, there is no Fox Sports Vancouver, there is no Fox Sports Montreal there is No Fox Sports Edmonton or Calgary. How many people in Winnipeg are interested in the Leafs/Flames game? And how many people in Winnipeg are interested in the Tampa Bay Atlanta game?

The Canadian TV Market just isn't big enough to support so many different networks, in order to Give each game Full coverage. fortunately NHL.com, detroitredwings.com and letsgowings.com gives us what we need when we want it.

[kook_10 1,705]

Again, Maybe I am a bit over stated, but that's because I'm right, and no one has even begun to argue a single point I've made in either post. So far all I've gotten was a bunch of americans critiquing my spelling (one word) and over use of the caps button. Iv'e been called a sore loser (Which I'm not. I said, congrats to team USA, they've done nothing wrong, but like Germany beating "Team Canada" in the Spengler cup, it's not the REAL Team Canada). In 2006 Sweden won the Gold fair and square. we appointed the best GM we thought we had, and he put what he felt was the absolute Best Team Canada on the ice. No excuses, in 2006, Sweden was Better than Canada. With Guys like Naslund, Forsberg, Lidstrom, The Sedins, Franzen, Zetterberg, Homstrom etc. THe had Great players all playing in or around their prime. This year, I think you'll see the effects of not having Lidstrom, Franzen, Homlstrom, Forsberg, Naslund at the top of their games, or not having them at all.

These Americans on this board seem to be getting frustrated because they can't argue any of the Facts that I've said. When you get Frustrated in an online argument, and you've gotten crushed, there's really nothing left to do, but try to attack the person that's crushing you, as opposed to attacking the actual discussion at hand. I haven't said one negative word about anybody that's tried to dispute me, I just back my self up with facts. All you can do is pick out the Word I spelled wrong. It's probably a lot easier not to spell words wrong when all you're able to come back with are 1 line posts going after things that have nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Good on ya, USA....Good on ya

No one wants to argue with you because (in addition to your general arrogance and belligerence):

a) The Spengler Cup has nothing to do with this (see Strawman under list of fallacious arguments).

b) You brought into the argument Team USA in the early 90's, a period of time which according to your profile you were roughly 7-8 years old.

c) You make mention of hono(u)r and Canadians while saying throwing around pejoratives such as "you Americans" "these Americans" etc. That's hardly the way to foster respect for your ideas.

d) Arguing about Don Cherry's minor league experience in the 50's is pointless. Comparing the relative quality of the league in different eras is a fool's errand and only one person here seems up to that task.

e) The Team Canada that was on the ice was good enough for the 5 million people watching before they lost (featuring such deities as Eberle and Hall). If, in hindsight, Canada doesn't think the team on the ice was representative of Hockey Canada, then perhaps they should consider more strongly lobbying for the allowance of who they consider their best team in the future. This isn't the Americans' fault. If this year stings that bad maybe Hockey Canada could also lobby for an asterisk in the annals of hockey.

The fact of the matter is Team USA beat Team Canada in the 2010 World Junior Championships- no asterisk. I don't see any Americans here suggesting that is anything more than one huge victory for Team USA regardless of who was or wasn't on the ice. From my limited understanding of Canada, I think what a "good Canadian boy" would do is shake hands, say "good game", go home and outwork the competition to continue being the best overall hockey country in the world and to endeavo(u)r to have that show on the international stage. Luckily I think there are quite a few "good Canadian boys" here that exemplify the hono(u)r of which you speak, so maybe you should consider what they would do before painting the Maple Leaf with such an ugly colo(u)r. Begrudging victory, belittling accomplishment, as well as immodesty in victory aren't the actions that hono(u)rable Canadians or Americans would espouse. The past is written, so why not concentrate on the future?

[Tane 17]

No one wants to argue with you because (in addition to your general arrogance and belligerence):

a) The Spengler Cup has nothing to do with this (see Strawman under list of fallacious arguments).

b) You brought into the argument Team USA in the early 90's, a period of time which according to your profile you were roughly 7-8 years old.

c) You make mention of hono(u)r and Canadians while saying throwing around pejoratives such as "you Americans" "these Americans" etc. That's hardly the way to foster respect for your ideas.

d) Arguing about Don Cherry's minor league experience in the 50's is pointless. Comparing the relative quality of the league in different eras is a fool's errand and only one person here seems up to that task.

e) The Team Canada that was on the ice was good enough for the 5 million people watching before they lost (featuring such deities as Eberle and Hall). If, in hindsight, Canada doesn't think the team on the ice was representative of Hockey Canada, then perhaps they should consider more strongly lobbying for the allowance of who they consider their best team in the future. This isn't the Americans' fault. If this year stings that bad maybe Hockey Canada could also lobby for an asterisk in the annals of hockey.

The fact of the matter is Team USA beat Team Canada in the 2010 World Junior Championships- no asterisk. I don't see any Americans here suggesting that is anything more than one huge victory for Team USA regardless of who was or wasn't on the ice. From my limited understanding of Canada, I think what a "good Canadian boy" would do is shake hands, say "good game", go home and outwork the competition to continue being the best overall hockey country in the world and to endeavo(u)r to have that show on the international stage. Luckily I think there are quite a few "good Canadian boys" here that exemplify the hono(u)r of which you speak, so maybe you should consider what they would do before painting the Maple Leaf with such an ugly colo(u)r. Begrudging victory, belittling accomplishment, as well as immodesty in victory aren't the actions that hono(u)rable Canadians or Americans would espouse. The past is written, so why not concentrate on the future?

A) Spengler Cup/World championships are completley relevant...You can't put too much stock into them, because it's not best vs. Best. If you put a Maple Leaf on my chest and me and my buddies take on the US national team in Curling and lose, does that mean USA is better at curling than Canadians? No. It's not best vs. best.

b)1996 World cup I was 12, and I probably knew more about hockey then any casual american fan knows now. at 12 years old, hockey was my life. Since then, yeah, I'm a sports geek. it's not just off the top of my head recollection, it's looking at the all time statistics, I looked back at the rosters, I know the 91 Canada Cup rosters, I watched the 96 world Cup, and if anything I gave USA Hockey Credit. I said take away Lemieux and Gretzky, and there's not much of a difference in between the countries back then. You can't compare todays American Talent to the talent you had 15 years ago. I'm sure any American would agree. I'm sure if a 12 year old today looked at today's team and the US talent in 1994 and would say today's is better. I could tell you that canadian hockey was More dominant over US hockey in the 50's too. I didn't have to be born in the 50's to know that.

c) In Canada, UK, Australia, and pretty much any other English speaking country in the world it's spelt Honour, Coulour, Favourite, Defence, Draught. I hear a lot about being arrogant and ignorant, well, enough said. Am I really arrogant? Or am I just right? If you went telling people the Grass is green, and someone said you're wrong and you capitalised ( <---- British English) the wrong word, how would you respond? And if you were so sure of yourself that the grass was green, and you got nothing but arguments from Brazilians, and only brazilians, telling you it's not, not telling you why it's not, not telling you what it really is, but just telling you it's not, and you're wrong, and arrogant for beign so sure of yourself that the grass is green, what would you do? You'd show pictures of grass, and you'd show pictures of green, and you'd show statement of scientists saying that the grass is green and why it's green. That's all I've done here. Canadian Hockey is still better than American Hockey. Our 18-19 year olds are better than your 18-19 year olds. The grass is green. None of these statements can be argued. At some point, you too would probably say, I don't know what's up with all these Brazilians telling me the grass isnt' green.

D) Someone before was arguing that Since don Cherry only played in 1 NHL game in 1955, he's not qualified to talk about hockey. I was just listing his qualifications. I don't think you NEED to have played in the NHL in order to be knowledgeable about hockey, But this guy did. If the entire basis of an argument is Don Cherry shoulnd't be qualified to talk hockey because he only Played 1 NHL game, I simply had an argument to destroy that.

e) We still put together a Very good team, capable of winning. Like I said before, take the top 8 players of the Canadian olympic team, and we still have enough talent to replace them and Make a strong run at the gold. We'll all still get behind that team, and love them, but if they lose, by 1 goal, in OT, you can't help but point to the fact that our top 8 players were out.

Look at the Wings this year. Look at all the Injuries. Take out Zetterberg, Franzen, Kronwall, Cleary, Filppula, Holmstrom, Jason Williams and Ericsson. If we make it to the Finals without those 8 players, and lose in game 7 OT, sure you say congrats to the team that beat us, but your'e still proud of your guys, and you HAVE to say, well, if we got that close without all those guys, what would we have done WITH them. People Still talk about our guys not beign 100% last year.

There is no Lobbying the Islanders and the Lightning to release Stamkos and Tavares for the world Juniors. Our 18-19 year olds are among the best players on their NHL teams. Team USA's best 18-19 year olds beat what was left of what we had. Taylor Hall Should be an NHL star, but he Experts are saying Eberle will probably top out at 30 goals, and at best be a consistand 20-25 goal scorer. Jason Arnott is the High Water Mark for that kid. He's not our best. Tavares and Stamkos are.

I didn't say USA didn't Deserve to win this Tournament. I've said Congrats many times. What i'm saying Is, Settle down. Don't get too ahead of yourself. Canada's development is so far advanced that half of our "Junior" team is in the NHL. Put a Roster of each other's top 18-19 year olds, and Canada blows you away.

The Olympics are close to a Fair Test of What country is the The Best. In 2006 We wern't. Sweden Was. This year, I think it's between Canada and Russia, but who knows. Ryan Miller could stand on his head and steal a game or two, and knock Canada out, or knock Russia out. Who knows in a 1 game elimination tournament. I think the best way to judge which country is ahead of anyone else, is who's putting the most players into the NHL. Sorry, Canada's the Best.

Canada's the best at Hockey.

USA is the Best at Track and Field, Baseball, Basketball, Football, Golf, Olympic Events in General. United States has the Best Overall athletes in the World. There's no Disputing that. But Canada's the Best at Hockey.

[kook_10 1,705]

Canada's the best at Hockey.

I conceded as much, so why can't you let us savor a victory without s***ting all over it? It has been your fellow countrymen who have been talking about how far the program has come, and even so no one has crowned USA Hockey King of the World. We Americans have just been trying to relish our victory and championship, but that seems to be too much to ask.

[btw you are already hedging any loss at the Olympics by diminishing the validity of single elimination? Jeez...you're worse than our redneck NASCAR flag wavers]

Edited January 10, 2010 by kook_10

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

...

[btw you are already hedging any loss at the Olympics by diminishing the validity of single elimination? Jeez...you're worse than our redneck NASCAR flag wavers]

Brian Burke has already layed the groundwork for this defense, telling people not to expect too much in the upcoming Olympics; that they are overhauling the system so that it will be better than before and, from the American point of view, a winning one. This is from the same trough of Kool-Aid ® that he is trying to get the fans of Toronto to drink from.

In this particular case, Mr. Cherry is correct.

[kook_10 1,705]

Brian Burke has already layed the groundwork for this defense, telling people not to expect too much in the upcoming Olympics; that they are overhauling the system so that it will be better than before and, from the American point of view, a winning one. This is from the same trough of Kool-Aid ® that he is trying to get the fans of Toronto to drink from.

In this particular case, Mr. Cherry is correct.

At this point, I wasn't talking about the US Olympic chances or even Don Cherry, I was just addressing Tane specifically. With respect to Canada in the Olympics, you guys will have all the players and conditions you need and want to play an open tournament without qualifying the result. Yet, he wants to say "Who knows in a 1 game elimination tournament. I think the best way to judge which country is ahead of anyone else, is who's putting the most players into the NHL. Sorry, Canada's the Best." There is no question about the premier level of Canada's love affair with hockey, the cultural integration of the sport, and the individual development of the players, but if ever there was a time and place to show that those players can create the best team in the world, the Olympics is it. It's unfortunate that Tane's national pride would be so severely wounded if Canada were to lose that he has to create excuses beforehand and diminish the importance of the Olympic tournament. You guys really have no basis to be so insecure about hockey.

[and no Tane i wasn't mocking your use of "u"s - I was inserting them out of cultural deference]

[thedisappearer 291]

Am I really arrogant?

...

Canadian Hockey is still better than American Hockey. Our 18-19 year olds are better than your 18-19 year olds. The grass is green. None of these statements can be argued.

LOL

[cjm502 165]

Again, Maybe I am a bit over stated, but that's because I'm right, and no one has even begun to argue a single point I've made in either post. So far all I've gotten was a bunch of americans critiquing my spelling (one word) and over use of the caps button. Iv'e been called a sore loser (Which I'm not. I said, congrats to team USA, they've done nothing wrong, but like Germany beating "Team Canada" in the Spengler cup, it's not the REAL Team Canada). In 2006 Sweden won the Gold fair and square. we appointed the best GM we thought we had, and he put what he felt was the absolute Best Team Canada on the ice. No excuses, in 2006, Sweden was Better than Canada. With Guys like Naslund, Forsberg, Lidstrom, The Sedins, Franzen, Zetterberg, Homstrom etc. THe had Great players all playing in or around their prime. This year, I think you'll see the effects of not having Lidstrom, Franzen, Homlstrom, Forsberg, Naslund at the top of their games, or not having them at all.

These Americans on this board seem to be getting frustrated because they can't argue any of the Facts that I've said. When you get Frustrated in an online argument, and you've gotten crushed, there's really nothing left to do, but try to attack the person that's crushing you, as opposed to attacking the actual discussion at hand. I haven't said one negative word about anybody that's tried to dispute me, I just back my self up with facts. All you can do is pick out the Word I spelled wrong. It's probably a lot easier not to spell words wrong when all you're able to come back with are 1 line posts going after things that have nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Good on ya, USA....Good on ya

You are so cool. I wish I could be an arrogant dick just like you

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

You are so cool. I wish I could be an arrogant dick just like you

He clearly has an inferiority complex against America. He's like one of those Canadians from South Park. LOL Pretty laughable actually.

[zettie85 106]

He clearly has an inferiority complex against America. He's like one of those Canadians from South Park. LOL Pretty laughable actually.

f*** you guys! Canada is going on strike!

[Tane 17]

At this point, I wasn't talking about the US Olympic chances or even Don Cherry, I was just addressing Tane specifically. With respect to Canada in the Olympics, you guys will have all the players and conditions you need and want to play an open tournament without qualifying the result. Yet, he wants to say "Who knows in a 1 game elimination tournament. I think the best way to judge which country is ahead of anyone else, is who's putting the most players into the NHL. Sorry, Canada's the Best." There is no question about the premier level of Canada's love affair with hockey, the cultural integration of the sport, and the individual development of the players, but if ever there was a time and place to show that those players can create the best team in the world, the Olympics is it. It's unfortunate that Tane's national pride would be so severely wounded if Canada were to lose that he has to create excuses beforehand and diminish the importance of the Olympic tournament. You guys really have no basis to be so insecure about hockey.

[and no Tane i wasn't mocking your use of "u"s - I was inserting them out of cultural deference]

My Point is......

Who's Better at Baseball? Canada? or USA?

I'd say without a doubt, USA.

At the Last World Baseball Classic, Canada Beat Team USA. That doesn't mean canada's Better at Baseball than The US. On that day the Stars aligned and we beat you. In a 7 game series, I'd say we wouldn't have a chance. Or maybe our guys were just meshing at the right time, and US didn't put together the Right team. When Canada beat US, Yeah, It was Sweet, Yeah, we felt good about ourselves, but I hope nobody said that Canadians are now better at Baseball than Americans.

Same thing In Hockey.

The Red Wings don't win every game, We don't win every playoff series, but over the last 20 years we've shown a level of Excellence that allows us to Say Detroit is the Best Franchise in Hockey. Just because Pittsburgh Beat us last year, by 1 goal, Doesn't mean that they're overall better than us. They don't build a team as well as us, they don't rebuild/retool a team better than us, and they don't sustain excellence as well as us. If the Wings don't win the cup this year, it doesn't mean we're not still the best. If Pittsburgh Wins again this year, and again next year, And stays dominant over the next 10 year or so, they'll have something to say. Until then, it's Still Red wings, and it's Still Canada.

Sorry.

[Tane 17]

He clearly has an inferiority complex against America. He's like one of those Canadians from South Park. LOL Pretty laughable actually.

Classic American comment. nothing to add, nothing to back yourself up, nothing to do with the discussions, just a drive by empty insult.

When someone beats you with facts, throw out an insult and laugh. Sorry, Us Canadians learn how to handle situations better than this in grade school

Nuff Said

[thedisappearer 291]

[kook_10 1,705]

My Point is......

Who's Better at Baseball? Canada? or USA?

I'd say without a doubt, USA.

At the Last World Baseball Classic, Canada Beat Team USA. That doesn't mean canada's Better at Baseball than The US. On that day the Stars aligned and we beat you. In a 7 game series, I'd say we wouldn't have a chance. Or maybe our guys were just meshing at the right time, and US didn't put together the Right team. When Canada beat US, Yeah, It was Sweet, Yeah, we felt good about ourselves, but I hope nobody said that Canadians are now better at Baseball than Americans.

Same thing In Hockey.

The Red Wings don't win every game, We don't win every playoff series, but over the last 20 years we've shown a level of Excellence that allows us to Say Detroit is the Best Franchise in Hockey. Just because Pittsburgh Beat us last year, by 1 goal, Doesn't mean that they're overall better than us. They don't build a team as well as us, they don't rebuild/retool a team better than us, and they don't sustain excellence as well as us. If the Wings don't win the cup this year, it doesn't mean we're not still the best. If Pittsburgh Wins again this year, and again next year, And stays dominant over the next 10 year or so, they'll have something to say. Until then, it's Still Red wings, and it's Still Canada.

Sorry.

Unfortunately the Olympics are played for the Gold Medal, not the Lifetime Achievement Award.

[newfy 695]

Classic American comment. nothing to add, nothing to back yourself up, nothing to do with the discussions, just a drive by empty insult.

When someone beats you with facts, throw out an insult and laugh. Sorry, Us Canadians learn how to handle situations better than this in grade school

Nuff Said

No kidding. I've seen talk about Tane being arrogant and people wanting us Canadians to let usa enjoy their victory but thats not what this is about at all. This is about an American being stupid because he thinks Don Cherry is a baby all because he said our development system is better then the states. Guess what? It is. The fact that we have so many NHLers eligible for the tourny proves that.

Now the way this thread has been going I'm expecting an American to call me arrogant or some other insult because they can't argue that they have a worst development system.

Oh and by the way Don Cherry probably has more love for hockey in his pinky finger then all of America combined.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I'm not going to diss on the Americans despite my feelings towards them, lots of good ones on here, all that matters. Don's right, if Canada had all the eligible players the US would've gotten slaughtered. And on top of that, the majority of NHL players are Canadian, the best players to ever play at all positions (Gretzky, Orr, Roy/Broduer) were Canadian. I'm as proud a Canadian as there is, so that's my take on this whole thing. 9 pages of s*** talking is something else though

[SDavis35 140]

Does it really have to be about development of hockey players?

USA won at the World JUNIORS because the JUNIOR players from the states are better than the Canadian JUNIOR players.

Don't get it? Junior = the level below pro. The players like Tavares, Myers, Kane, etc. are full-time professional hockey players and therefore are exempt from being junior players. Plain and simple, Americans won and Canadians oughta suck it up.

If a tournament revolving around junior players is representative of development of hockey players (which I don't believe it is) then congratulations to the Americans for being on top of the Hockey World (for now). American hockey is starting to develop better players, and maybe with less talented players too. Canadians live and breathe hockey right? That's why they have more pro players; they've mastered this development of players' skills and such. They obviously have some formulaic way of creating hockey players (called practice practice practice since they can walk) and I may be wrong, but the passion Canadians have for the game of hockey is the reason they're spitting out so many potentially great players. Not saying that the American players don't have passion - as those with passion are the ones who made the team - but they don't have superstar players on the team because they're not practicing every moment from their birth. (a huge generalization, but it's a difference in culture)

The American players that make it to the World Juniors were also players that hadn't quite made it to the NHL level yet. D'Amigo (?) a Leaf draft pick was on the squad and showed some truly solid playing style. None of the Americans in my mind were "superstar" caliber, but neither were the Canadians. The Americans played with more passion, more grit and flat out faster than Canadians in that game.

This is why Americans are getting so much praise - they've IMPROVED - they're not necessarily the greatest hockey nation ever now, but they did take down the team from the country that is. (and that's my Canadian pride at work)

[thedisappearer 291]

Does it really have to be about development of hockey players?

USA won at the World JUNIORS because the JUNIOR players from the states are better than the Canadian JUNIOR players.

Don't get it? Junior = the level below pro. The players like Tavares, Myers, Kane, etc. are full-time professional hockey players and therefore are exempt from being junior players. Plain and simple, Americans won and Canadians oughta suck it up.

If a tournament revolving around junior players is representative of development of hockey players (which I don't believe it is) then congratulations to the Americans for being on top of the Hockey World (for now). American hockey is starting to develop better players, and maybe with less talented players too. Canadians live and breathe hockey right? That's why they have more pro players; they've mastered this development of players' skills and such. They obviously have some formulaic way of creating hockey players (called practice practice practice since they can walk) and I may be wrong, but the passion Canadians have for the game of hockey is the reason they're spitting out so many potentially great players. Not saying that the American players don't have passion - as those with passion are the ones who made the team - but they don't have superstar players on the team because they're not practicing every moment from their birth. (a huge generalization, but it's a difference in culture)

The American players that make it to the World Juniors were also players that hadn't quite made it to the NHL level yet. D'Amigo (?) a Leaf draft pick was on the squad and showed some truly solid playing style. None of the Americans in my mind were "superstar" caliber, but neither were the Canadians. The Americans played with more passion, more grit and flat out faster than Canadians in that game.

This is why Americans are getting so much praise - they've IMPROVED - they're not necessarily the greatest hockey nation ever now, but they did take down the team from the country that is. (and that's my Canadian pride at work)

Excellent post. I agree 100%, and would like to point out the the reason this is a big deal to Americans is that we beat the greatest hockey nation in the world. Cheers!

[cjm502 165]

I'm not going to diss on the Americans despite my feelings towards them, lots of good ones on here, all that matters. Don's right, if Canada had all the eligible players the US would've gotten slaughtered. And on top of that, the majority of NHL players are Canadian, the best players to ever play at all positions (Gretzky, Orr, Roy/Broduer) were Canadian. I'm as proud a Canadian as there is, so that's my take on this whole thing. 9 pages of s*** talking is something else though

Tane, now take note.

You do not have to be a complete ****** bag to have pride in your country.

Grow up man, ones nationality is not what makes them who they are. It would be a lot better if you would take off your red and white colored glasses and be reasonable. "Detroit # 1 Fan" made his point just fine as you can see, yet was not an unreasonable *******. Pretty amazing, huh.

[cjm502 165]

Does it really have to be about development of hockey players?

USA won at the World JUNIORS because the JUNIOR players from the states are better than the Canadian JUNIOR players.

Don't get it? Junior = the level below pro. The players like Tavares, Myers, Kane, etc. are full-time professional hockey players and therefore are exempt from being junior players. Plain and simple, Americans won and Canadians oughta suck it up.

If a tournament revolving around junior players is representative of development of hockey players (which I don't believe it is) then congratulations to the Americans for being on top of the Hockey World (for now). American hockey is starting to develop better players, and maybe with less talented players too. Canadians live and breathe hockey right? That's why they have more pro players; they've mastered this development of players' skills and such. They obviously have some formulaic way of creating hockey players (called practice practice practice since they can walk) and I may be wrong, but the passion Canadians have for the game of hockey is the reason they're spitting out so many potentially great players. Not saying that the American players don't have passion - as those with passion are the ones who made the team - but they don't have superstar players on the team because they're not practicing every moment from their birth. (a huge generalization, but it's a difference in culture)

The American players that make it to the World Juniors were also players that hadn't quite made it to the NHL level yet. D'Amigo (?) a Leaf draft pick was on the squad and showed some truly solid playing style. None of the Americans in my mind were "superstar" caliber, but neither were the Canadians. The Americans played with more passion, more grit and flat out faster than Canadians in that game.

This is why Americans are getting so much praise - they've IMPROVED - they're not necessarily the greatest hockey nation ever now, but they did take down the team from the country that is. (and that's my Canadian pride at work)

Woah, watch it man. Tane is not going to approve of that at all.

[Cern 0]

From Wikipedia, forgive the alignment.

This is the all-time count of medals won in ice hockey at the Olympics, including both the men's and women's tournaments.

Rank Nation Gold Silver Bronze Total

1 Canada (CAN) 9 5 2 16

2 Soviet Union (URS) 7 1 1 9

3 United States (USA) 3 8 2 13

4 Sweden (SWE) 2 3 5 10

Oh I see. When the evidence bites you in the butt, start fusing separate events to skew the numbers (as though anyone holds the results of women's hockey above mens hockey in the first place). Gotcha. But hey, you're welcome to continue butting your head against the wall that is the objective fact that the majority of Canada's gold medals in hockey are well over 50 years old.

Sorry, there's no underhanded manipulation of the numbers you can make that counters the fact that Canada's hockey record in the Olympics isn't anywhere even close to as mind-numbingly predictable as the US' in basketball. The analogy is flawed, live with it.

Now for cricket, who does have the best criket team most of the time? I don't know, but I'm willing to bet that they were once under British rule. (India or Australia would be my guesses).

Irrelevant. The bottom line is that India and Australia didn't invent the sport, and none of the players on either team are British (I imagine you'd get into some trouble if you ever told them such). Saying that Britain can indirectly steal credit for either country's success in the sport is ridiculous, that's like saying Britain has a strong hockey legacy purely by connection to Canada.

As for the Canadian inventing basketball, so what? It flourished in America and so it became an "American" sport.

Oh, so now it isn't about how the sport originated after all, it's where it flourished. Hey moron, you can't just backtrack on criteria YOU set when you get evidence telling you you're wrong.

I don't think that Canada is the odds on favorite, Canadians do. I think that the Russians will end up with the gold, Canada silver, and Sweden bronze over Finland, USA 5th. It is the unusual amount of "homerism" that I find amusing with Canadians regarding their Olympic teams and their NHL teams as well.

I never once said that Canada is the odds-on favourite in the first place, dumdum. That's what my entire argument has been from the start. You keep putting words in my mouth - every team you mentioned have a reasonable shot of winning the gold. This homerism you constantly refer to is both nonsensical to anyone with decent hockey sense and completely unproven by you beyond the constant assertion that it apparently exists - something you can somehow magically gauge from all the way over in Germany.

Example, the Wings-Sharks game highlights on TSN.ca were 45 seconds long, the Nucks-Flames were 2 minutes 45 seconds long. Now I know that the Canadian game had a few fights and a sniper during the game but I'm pretty sure that unless the Wings are playing another Canadian team I will have to rely on Yahoo! for real highlights of Wings games, but the Leafs-Anybody game will have ample highlights of missed passes and wristshot saves from the point. More examples, every game with a Canadian team had highlights over 2 minutes, every other game under 2 minutes and a couple under one minute. That includes the Caps game where 9 goals were scored.

Are you ******* kidding me? That's like whining that Versus focuses more on American games than ones between Canadian teams, or that ESPN covers basketball and football far more thoroughly than hockey. It's a CANADIAN tv station for f***'s sake, of COURSE they're going to focus on the Canadian teams. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of their viewers support Canadian teams, it's in the network's own interest to focus on regional games. It's like you have no concept whatsoever of geography.

I seriously feel like I'm talking to an eight-year-old here. You can't even keep your arguments straight, let alone demonstrate any kind of rationality or foresight behind your argumentation.

Edited January 11, 2010 by Cern

[Tane 17]

Does it really have to be about development of hockey players?

USA won at the World JUNIORS because the JUNIOR players from the states are better than the Canadian JUNIOR players.

Don't get it? Junior = the level below pro. The players like Tavares, Myers, Kane, etc. are full-time professional hockey players and therefore are exempt from being junior players. Plain and simple, Americans won and Canadians oughta suck it up.

If a tournament revolving around junior players is representative of development of hockey players (which I don't believe it is) then congratulations to the Americans for being on top of the Hockey World (for now). American hockey is starting to develop better players, and maybe with less talented players too. Canadians live and breathe hockey right? That's why they have more pro players; they've mastered this development of players' skills and such. They obviously have some formulaic way of creating hockey players (called practice practice practice since they can walk) and I may be wrong, but the passion Canadians have for the game of hockey is the reason they're spitting out so many potentially great players. Not saying that the American players don't have passion - as those with passion are the ones who made the team - but they don't have superstar players on the team because they're not practicing every moment from their birth. (a huge generalization, but it's a difference in culture)

The American players that make it to the World Juniors were also players that hadn't quite made it to the NHL level yet. D'Amigo (?) a Leaf draft pick was on the squad and showed some truly solid playing style. None of the Americans in my mind were "superstar" caliber, but neither were the Canadians. The Americans played with more passion, more grit and flat out faster than Canadians in that game.

This is why Americans are getting so much praise - they've IMPROVED - they're not necessarily the greatest hockey nation ever now, but they did take down the team from the country that is. (and that's my Canadian pride at work)

I'm not a hard headed Arrogant Canadian Prick. I'm just Right.

I can admit when someone else can come up with a good point. This is It. I cannot argue that The US Proved to have the Best Junior Players in the World this year.

lol, I was just about to say that there are some intelligent americans that can stay on topic and provide Great counter points. Until I saw that last line......

[kook_10 1,705]

I'm not a hard headed Arrogant Canadian Prick. I'm just Right.

I can admit when someone else can come up with a good point. This is It. I cannot argue that The US Proved to have the Best Junior Players in the World this year.

lol, I was just about to say that there are some intelligent americans that can stay on topic and provide Great counter points. Until I saw that last line......

Did you see where that poster was from?

[newfy 695]

Does it really have to be about development of hockey players?

USA won at the World JUNIORS because the JUNIOR players from the states are better than the Canadian JUNIOR players.

Don't get it? Junior = the level below pro. The players like Tavares, Myers, Kane, etc. are full-time professional hockey players and therefore are exempt from being junior players. Plain and simple, Americans won and Canadians oughta suck it up.

If a tournament revolving around junior players is representative of development of hockey players (which I don't believe it is) then congratulations to the Americans for being on top of the Hockey World (for now). American hockey is starting to develop better players, and maybe with less talented players too. Canadians live and breathe hockey right? That's why they have more pro players; they've mastered this development of players' skills and such. They obviously have some formulaic way of creating hockey players (called practice practice practice since they can walk) and I may be wrong, but the passion Canadians have for the game of hockey is the reason they're spitting out so many potentially great players. Not saying that the American players don't have passion - as those with passion are the ones who made the team - but they don't have superstar players on the team because they're not practicing every moment from their birth. (a huge generalization, but it's a difference in culture)

The American players that make it to the World Juniors were also players that hadn't quite made it to the NHL level yet. D'Amigo (?) a Leaf draft pick was on the squad and showed some truly solid playing style. None of the Americans in my mind were "superstar" caliber, but neither were the Canadians. The Americans played with more passion, more grit and flat out faster than Canadians in that game.

This is why Americans are getting so much praise - they've IMPROVED - they're not necessarily the greatest hockey nation ever now, but they did take down the team from the country that is. (and that's my Canadian pride at work)

Everything you said after that lost all credibility to me because you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Junior isn't the level under pro in IIHF. You're allowed to have NHLers play and just because some American GM decides not to release Canada's players doesn't mean America has better juniors. I'm not saying all American GMs do this but why wouldn't Burke release Schenn? Schenn has beena healthy scratch this season and been playing terrible. They have the personnel to replace him but Burke wouldn't. Thats not Schenns fault.