jack johnson available?

[puckbags 863]

What has Johnson done in the NHL to warrant any kind of contract, hype or trade value?

Exactly, everyone keeps saying he has great potential, potential is exactly that..potential. Although I would trade Leino for Johnson in a heartbeat.

[WMUCarGuy 8]

Concerning his +/-, Johnson has played only for the Kings and up until last year, the Kings had been pretty much the worst thing in the league. Lebda on the other hand has played on Detroit which would explain his much higher +/-.

I think Johnson could do well here, but he'd have to be willing to be a 3rd line defenseman.

[cmonster 11]

LA is really going to make that same mistake twice? They will want high picks or top level prospects and I wouldn't part with Kindl. Not with Lidstrom and Rafa winding down.

I'm fully comfortable with Stuart and Kronwall as 1/2 defenseman. If you got Jack Johnson, you replace Kindl. They are the same age with similar skillsets. Johnson is more physical than Kindl, but their offence is probably equal. With JJ you know what you have.

Assuming Lidstrom Retires per your "winding down" theory:

Kronwall/Stuart

Rafalski/Ericcson

JJ/Meech

and just for you Kindl+2nd rd pick+3rd rd pick for JJ

Essentially a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rd pick for JJ

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

I'm fully comfortable with Stuart and Kronwall as 1/2 defenseman. If you got Jack Johnson, you replace Kindl. They are the same age with similar skillsets. Johnson is more physical than Kindl, but their offence is probably equal. With JJ you know what you have.

Assuming Lidstrom Retires per your "winding down" theory:

Kronwall/Stuart

Rafalski/Ericcson

JJ/Meech

and just for you Kindl+2nd rd pick+3rd rd pick for JJ

Essentially a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rd pick for JJ

Kronwall/Stuart is probably the only solid defensive pairing of the bunch. Depending on how Rafa decides to play defense, you would have two defenseman that love to pinch. That would lead to a ton of odd man rushes. Meech is irresponsible defensively and so is Johnson in his current form. Johnson also is out of position a lot because he goes in for the big hit. I don't exactly trust Meech to cover on his own.

If Johnson and Kindl are essential similiar, why would you give up so much to get Johnson? The physical differences are made up in having Kronwall and Stuart dishing out the big hits and possibly Ericsson doing the same down the line. I realize that Johnson would be able to come in and possibly make a difference, but knowing what this team is this year is it really worth it?

I'd be more willing to gamble on Kindl then give up our top defensive prospect and 2 draft picks to get Johnson.

Edited January 23, 2010 by Howard He Do It?!

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

Laughing my ass off at some of the people here. Comparing Lebda (who's played on the winningest--and one of the most defensively solid--teams since the lockout) to JJ (who's played on the Kings who have had epic defensive and goaltending issues this year) statistically--especially by plus/minus--is absurd. Yes, JJ has defensive issues, though they're markedly improved this year (in spite of his -18 rating). Defensively, he's no real downgrade over Lebda at least, while having way more offensive upside and a more physical game. Oh, and he's 23, and on the US olympic roster. No, the guy hasn't entirely lived to his hype, but he still projects to be a solid d-man over the long-term (quite more so than Lebda).

Lebda (or Lebda + Leino) for JJ is a pipe dream.

Thank you making this post and saving me several minutes of my life.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Laughing my ass off at some of the people here. Comparing Lebda (who's played on the winningest--and one of the most defensively solid--teams since the lockout) to JJ (who's played on the Kings who have had epic defensive and goaltending issues this year) statistically--especially by plus/minus--is absurd. Yes, JJ has defensive issues, though they're markedly improved this year (in spite of his -18 rating). Defensively, he's no real downgrade over Lebda at least, while having way more offensive upside and a more physical game. Oh, and he's 23, and on the US olympic roster. No, the guy hasn't entirely lived to his hype, but he still projects to be a solid d-man over the long-term (quite more so than Lebda).

Lebda (or Lebda + Leino) for JJ is a pipe dream.

You do realize that JJ's only selling point for another GM is believing in his hype, right? He has no body of work to speak of, only unfulfilled potential and terrible NHL statistics. Right now he's at his low point in terms of trade value over the course of his young career.

[Yellowknife Redwing 57]

You do realize that JJ's only selling point for another GM is believing in his hype, right? He has no body of work to speak of, only unfulfilled potential and terrible NHL statistics. Right now he's at his low point in terms of trade value over the course of his young career.

Thank the gods someone else has the blinders off

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

You do realize that JJ's only selling point for another GM is believing in his hype, right? He has no body of work to speak of, only unfulfilled potential and terrible NHL statistics. Right now he's at his low point in terms of trade value over the course of his young career.

I also have a feeling that some of the sentiment around here has something to do with him having played at Michigan.

Edited January 23, 2010 by Howard He Do It?!

[newfy 695]

Wouldn't wanna see Abdelkader or Helm traded. I wouldn't mind seeing Kindl, Lebda, Leino, Meech or draft picks moved to get him but other then that I don't think I wanna see anybody moved.

If this guy could be developed he could be the next big thing and as close to a Lidstrom replacement that we could have. I know you're all going to scream blsphemy blah blah blah but its true. This guys cieling is so high and he's been stuck in LA, not exactly known for their development and time given to prospects.

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

Wouldn't wanna see Abdelkader or Helm traded. I wouldn't mind seeing Kindl, Lebda, Leino, Meech or draft picks moved to get him but other then that I don't think I wanna see anybody moved.

If this guy could be developed he could be the next big thing and as close to a Lidstrom replacement that we could have. I know you're all going to scream blsphemy blah blah blah but its true. This guys cieling is so high and he's been stuck in LA, not exactly known for their development and time given to prospects.

While you wouldn't mind seeing them moved, would LA mind seeing one or more of them come in?

[Datsyerberger 279]

You do realize that JJ's only selling point for another GM is believing in his hype, right? He has no body of work to speak of, only unfulfilled potential and terrible NHL statistics. Right now he's at his low point in terms of trade value over the course of his young career.

Ah, the 'what have you done for me lately' mentality. As I said, he hasn't fully lived up to the hype. On the other hand, he's 23--younger than Ericsson in his first full NHL season--and currently has 4 goals / 14 assists / 18 points -- more than Brett Lebda has ever seen in an entire season (and more than many who may be NHLers well into their 30s ever will). Yes, he's -18. Some of that is from defensive error (though no more than Lebda). Some of it's bad bounces. Some of it's a sometimes questionable team defense. Remember, he's 23--still young for a defenseman. More of his defensive game is to come, and he already has quite a solid offensive touch. While he's certainly at his low for value, to say that the only selling point for a young d-man on a 1.4 million contract on pace for a 30 point season is hype is ridiculous hyperbole.

Edited January 23, 2010 by Datsyerberger

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

Ah, the 'what have you done for me lately' mentality. As I said, he hasn't fully lived up to the hype. On the other hand, he's 23--younger than Ericsson in his first full NHL season--and currently has 4 goals / 14 assists / 18 points -- more than Brett Lebda has ever seen in an entire season (and more than many who may be NHLers well into their 30s ever will). Yes, he's -18. Some of that is from defensive error (though no more than Lebda). Some of it's bad bounces. Some of it's a sometimes questionable team defense. Remember, he's 23--still young for a defenseman. More of his defensive game is to come, and he already has quite a solid offensive touch. While he's certainly at his low for value, to say that the only selling point for a young d-man on a 1.4 million contract on pace for a 30 point season is hype is ridiculous.

By no means is this a given, but I am not denying that it could happen.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

While you wouldn't mind seeing them moved, would LA mind seeing one or more of them come in?

Yes. Kindl has more value than JJ right now. He's pretty much as highly regarded now as JJ was as a prospect but he hasn't failed to show it at an NHL level. There's no way the Wings would trade Kindl for JJ straight up.

[Datsyerberger 279]

By no means is this a given, but I am not denying that it could happen.

Not a given, no, but to assume that the defensive game of a 23 year old defenseman has reached its developmental peak is generally silly.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Ah, the 'what have you done for me lately' mentality. As I said, he hasn't fully lived up to the hype. On the other hand, he's 23--younger than Ericsson in his first full NHL season--and currently has 4 goals / 14 assists / 18 points -- more than Brett Lebda has ever seen in an entire season (and more than many who may be NHLers well into their 30s ever will). Yes, he's -18. Some of that is from defensive error (though no more than Lebda). Some of it's bad bounces. Some of it's a sometimes questionable team defense. Remember, he's 23--still young for a defenseman. More of his defensive game is to come, and he already has quite a solid offensive touch. While he's certainly at his low for value, to say that the only selling point for a young d-man on a 1.4 million contract on pace for a 30 point season is hype is ridiculous hyperbole.

It's more like a "what have you ever done for me at the NHL level".

[Guest Howard He Do It?!]

Not a given, no, but to assume that the defensive game of a 23 year old defenseman has reached its developmental peak is generally silly.

Agreed. If any team could improve his defensive abilities it is the Wings.

Edited January 23, 2010 by Howard He Do It?!

[Datsyerberger 279]

It's more like a "what have you ever done for me at the NHL level".

Scored more points in ~45 NHL games than Lebda can in 78 or 65 at an age closer to prime (edit: on a team which was top 2 in league offense both of those years) -- I'll take that improvement.

Edited January 23, 2010 by Datsyerberger

[puckbags 863]

Not a given, no, but to assume that the defensive game of a 23 year old defenseman has reached its developmental peak is generally silly.

It's also silly to sit here and blow this guys ego up on the word potential, lets be honest in the long run Johnson would be projected to be a better d man than alot of guys that we have now or have in our system but so far he's been a mediocre d man and until he proves otherwise thats all he is. And to the people that say Lebda is only a product of the team he plays on, well of course he is, he got drafted by this team, what is he supposed to do? decline to play for a good team? " Hey Kenny can you send me to Atlanta so maybe I can be exposed as a lesser d man and then the posters at LGW can laugh at me". Its the same as the people who say that the only reason Burrows is having such a good season is because he is playing with Sedins, well no s***, should he ask Vigneault to take him off their line because he thinks hes scroing too many goals? cmon !

[superstarsingh 23]

It's also silly to sit here and blow this guys ego up on the word potential, lets be honest in the long run Johnson would be projected to be a better d man than alot of guys that we have now or have in our system but so far he's been a mediocre d man and until he proves otherwise thats all he is. And to the people that say Lebda is only a product of the team he plays on, well of course he is, he got drafted by this team, what is he supposed to do? decline to play for a good team? " Hey Kenny can you send me to Atlanta so maybe I can be exposed as a lesser d man and then the posters at LGW can laugh at me". Its the same as the people who say that the only reason Burrows is having such a good season is because he is playing with Sedins, well no s***, should he ask Vigneault to take him off their line because he thinks hes scroing too many goals? cmon !

Lebda was not "drafted" by the Red Wings or anyone else. He was signed as an undrafted free agent. Regardless, I understand what you mean, its a weak argument because all you are doing is pointing out the obvious. Generally speaking, Lebda is a waste of a roster space. He does not have one strong point in his game. I suppose you can say he skates well but he does not use his skating to his advantage as he should.

[LeftWinger 5,131]

ok, I will take him. What would it take to get him? People comparing him with Lebda. Difference? Lebda career on downswing, Johnson on the up still. He could be a nice fit with a third pairing with Ericsson. Maybe try to aquire him after the season. Not sure the Kings would deal us something that would help us considering the current playoff race going on, but maybe in the off season. Johnson would be awesome on the Wings.

[Datsyerberger 279]

It's also silly to sit here and blow this guys ego up on the word potential

Yea, I'm sure JJ reads LGW all the time looking for ego boosts.

[titanium2 867]

Jack Johnson is overrated. All of his songs sound the same.

[jollymania 162]

he's better than lebda and hits and fights more than lebda

Edited January 23, 2010 by jollymania

[Guest Crymson]

Trading trash for Johnson will not happen. He is a decent defenseman on a very cheap contract. I get enormous laughs out of those of you who talk about how worthless Leino, Lebda and Meech are until talks come of trading them for somebody; at that point, they suddenly become useful players to the potential trade partner.

Haha.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

He is a minus 18. Do not want.