Should Valtteri Filppula be traded?

[Konnan511 1,736]

toews 3 assists in the finals were pretty cool

the hawks managed to prevail in spite of him though

Agreed. Glad you see things my way. It's big of you to admit you were wrong

[titanium2 867]

His game against Dallas was quite a good one. He was all over the ice. The way he maintains the puck (or doesn't) after he steals it isn't ideal but man, it's games like those that make you not want to trade him.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

He was a beast defensively tonight, and he chipped in with an assist on a great feed to Lids, great game Fil!

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

His game against Dallas was quite a good one. He was all over the ice. The way he maintains the puck (or doesn't) after he steals it isn't ideal but man, it's games like those that make you not want to trade him.

I agree. He had a strong game defensively, breaking up passes and checking hard. And then helped start the Wings' rally setting up Nick's goal.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Don't look now, but Filppula has 6 points in his last 7, and only 30 centers in the NHL have more goals than him, and only 38 with more points. That is almost like above average second line center area.

[Shaman 713]

Don't look now, but Filppula has 6 points in his last 7, and only 30 centers in the NHL have more goals than him, and only 38 with more points. That is almost like above average second line center area.

And in a couple weeks he will have 1 or 2 points in 8 games and he will drop again. There is a pattern here you are really trying hard to not see.

[Z and D for the C 712]

And in a couple weeks he will have 1 or 2 points in 8 games and he will drop again. There is a pattern here you are really trying hard to not see.

Time will tell.

[Guest Shoreline]

And in a couple weeks he will have 1 or 2 points in 8 games and he will drop again. There is a pattern here you are really trying hard to not see.

Pattern: Even very good players have cold streaks. Whew, that was a tough one.

[Datsyerberger 279]

And in a couple weeks he will have 1 or 2 points in 8 games and he will drop again. There is a pattern here you are really trying hard to not see.

Well, so far the pattern is that he's tied for 48th in PPG among centers, 56th in GPG among centers, and his +/- (lol) is also amongst the top 60 for centers. Or how about an overlooked stat: his takeaways are 22nd among centers. He's 43rd in faceoffs taken (right below Datsyuk) with a success rate above 50%. 67th for shots among centers but 32nd in shooting %. 90th among centers, but first among Detroit centers for shots blocked. Tied 6th for game winning goals among centers. 41st in TOI for centers. Also notable that despite his offensive numbers, he's only 69th in PPTOI/G--in other words, he eats up a ton of even strength minutes, allowing our high end talent and specialists to play more special teams minutes (he's 40th in ESTOI/G among centers). He produces with that time; in fact, he's tied 32nd for ES points for centers.

Summary:

His production is on par with 2nd line centers

His time on ice is on par with 2nd line centers, with a preference towards even strength

His even strength production is above average for 2nd line centers

His defensive play is above average for 2nd line centers

He's played like a 2nd line center, he plays like a 2nd line center, and he's paid like a 2nd line center

...So basically, what point are you trying to make? That he's not a 2nd line center? And if so, from where are you drawing those conclusions? Some warped reality inside your head wherein players aren't 2nd line players based solely upon your judgement instead of those made by NHL professionals such as Ken Holland and Mike Babcock?

Edited January 1, 2011 by Datsyerberger

[Shaman 713]

Pattern: Even very good players have cold streaks. Whew, that was a tough one.

Flip is a very very streaky player, why do people act as if this is some massive revelation?

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Flip is a very very streaky player, why do people act as if this is some massive revelation?

Uh oh. Better trade him quick, then.

[Guest mjtm77]

This thread seems stupid.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Yeah, Filppula is streaky. You know who else has been streaky lately? Ovechkin and Malkin.

Many of the best players are streaky, and for Flip being a 2nd/3rd line guy, that's cool.

[Shaman 713]

Uh oh. Better trade him quick, then.

I am not saying trade him for a bag of pucks, but I am saying there are better options for a second line center.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

I am not saying trade him for a bag of pucks, but I am saying there are better options for a second line center.

Such as?

[titanium2 867]

Such as?

Apparently:

Just off the top of my head...

Malkin, Crosby, Getzlaf, Ward, M. Richards, (small sample size) Leino, Kane, Pronger... I am sure there are more, but these are the players I think of when I think of 'really step it up come playoff time'.

I have yet to hear anyone offer up a plausible option that is better than what Fil provides. A better 2nd line center who isn't Malkin and bla bla bla.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Such as?

Crosby, Wayne Gretzky, Gordie Howe, Mario Lemieux, Steve Yzerman, Mark Messier, etc

[thedisappearer 291]

Crosby, Wayne Gretzky, Gordie Howe, Mario Lemieux, Steve Yzerman, Mark Messier, etc

Those guys? They'd better include a draft pick.

[Datsyerberger 279]

Okay, for Shaman, here's a list of 2nd line centers that are UFA at the end of this year:

Handzus

Arnott

And possibly available for trade:

S. Koivu (NTC, price tag: $2.5m for 1 yr) -- At this point, Flip is superior, and Koivu may not waive NTC

Langkow ($4.5m for 1 yr) -- No comment

Jokinen ($3m for 1 yr) -- Why would we do this?

Horcoff (way too much for way too long) -- why?

Stoll (3.6m for 1 yr)

Gomez -- lol

Drury -- extra lol

McDonald -- 4.7 for 2

So... who do we get instead of Flip.. and why?

[gcom007 1,465]

I still think we're better off splitting up Dats and Z and bringing in a Winger with more of a scoring touch for Flip. I'm less inclined to see the need for the move this year as we're getting more scoring out of guys like Eaves and Cleary this season, but last year when goals were tough to come by, it didn't make sense to me to have another center behind Dats and Z who's strength was defense and not offense especially with a $3 million cap hit. He's never scored like a second line center and I don't think he ever will. So again, my idea was split up Dats and Z and bring in a scoring winger.

I think Flip has been less impressive this year when compared to last year now halfway in though, but again, the urgency to make a move for more scoring isn't as strong. The only benefit now would be to clear up cap space which we may need to keep Howard, Osgood, Eaves, Miller and Ericson. Howard will be getting a hefty raise, Eaves will definitely get a descent raise while Miller and Ericsson will definitely command a bit more money than they're making now. Lidstrom will likely make about the same and Osgood will play for a bit less. Draper likely will come off the books.

The way some of our younger, cheap guys are playing these days, I really wonder if we need Flip or Hudler (given his incredible knack for inconsistency). Dumping both of their salaries would allow us to bring in more scoring and defensive depth. I don't think we need a big name but a couple mid-level guys that address our needs better could help. With another winger who can bury the puck a bit more consistently, it makes it a lot easier to split Dats and Z and it makes Flip all the more unnecessary on this team. He's a 2nd line center on a lot of teams in this league, especially those who struggle on D and want to bring in a strong 2-way presence, but he just isn't a 2nd line center on the Wings by a longshot.

[dragonballgtz 273]

Okay, for Shaman, here's a list of 2nd line centers that are UFA at the end of this year:

Handzus

Arnott

And possibly available for trade:

S. Koivu (NTC, price tag: $2.5m for 1 yr) -- At this point, Flip is superior, and Koivu may not waive NTC

Langkow ($4.5m for 1 yr) -- No comment

Jokinen ($3m for 1 yr) -- Why would we do this?

Horcoff (way too much for way too long) -- why?

Stoll (3.6m for 1 yr)

Gomez -- lol

Drury -- extra lol

McDonald -- 4.7 for 2

So... who do we get instead of Flip.. and why?

Is Boyle the Rangers 2nd liner?

[nate94gt 134]

I think Flip has been less impressive this year when compared to last year now halfway in though, but again, the urgency to make a move for more scoring isn't as strong. The only benefit now would be to clear up cap space which we may need to keep Howard, Osgood, Eaves, Miller and Ericson. Howard will be getting a hefty raise, Eaves will definitely get a descent raise while Miller and Ericsson will definitely command a bit more money than they're making now. Lidstrom will likely make about the same and Osgood will play for a bit less. Draper likely will come off the books.

last year flip got injured in late october. not even a full month into the season. to say he's been less impressive this season at this point than last season is

[Datsyerberger 279]

Is Boyle the Rangers 2nd liner?

He's an RFA... the Rangers will lock him up for sure. No way Holland goes chasing Sather's RFAs.

[Shaman 713]

Apparently:

I have yet to hear anyone offer up a plausible option that is better than what Fil provides. A better 2nd line center who isn't Malkin and bla bla bla.

Well as its been stated Flip isn't even the second best center on the team, I would have to agree with Gcom and say the Wings trade him for a scoring winger, since Zetterberg is better in every facet of the game the Wings upgrade at center, and balance the scoring better on both lines. I really don't understand why it such an sin to you that Flip just isn't that great offensively. Oh and if you give me that line 'well hes one of the best 2nd line centers... bla bla bla' hes 44th in faceoff %, 42 in scoring among centers, 43rd in power play points behind even HUDLER (Z and D I am positive you were the one saying last year that him not getting PP time was why his point totals weren't as good as they could be). If the Wings were a middle of the pack team that finished in the middle of the pack and that was acceptable then these stats would be just fine for a second line player but, there are only 16 teams that make the playoffs 32 centers on play of teams, the other 28 centers shouldn't even be in this conversation.

[Buppy 1,720]

I still think we're better off splitting up Dats and Z and bringing in a Winger with more of a scoring touch for Flip. I'm less inclined to see the need for the move this year as we're getting more scoring out of guys like Eaves and Cleary this season, but last year when goals were tough to come by, it didn't make sense to me to have another center behind Dats and Z who's strength was defense and not offense especially with a $3 million cap hit. He's never scored like a second line center and I don't think he ever will. So again, my idea was split up Dats and Z and bring in a scoring winger.

I think Flip has been less impressive this year when compared to last year now halfway in though, but again, the urgency to make a move for more scoring isn't as strong. The only benefit now would be to clear up cap space which we may need to keep Howard, Osgood, Eaves, Miller and Ericson. Howard will be getting a hefty raise, Eaves will definitely get a descent raise while Miller and Ericsson will definitely command a bit more money than they're making now. Lidstrom will likely make about the same and Osgood will play for a bit less. Draper likely will come off the books.

The way some of our younger, cheap guys are playing these days, I really wonder if we need Flip or Hudler (given his incredible knack for inconsistency). Dumping both of their salaries would allow us to bring in more scoring and defensive depth. I don't think we need a big name but a couple mid-level guys that address our needs better could help. With another winger who can bury the puck a bit more consistently, it makes it a lot easier to split Dats and Z and it makes Flip all the more unnecessary on this team. He's a 2nd line center on a lot of teams in this league, especially those who struggle on D and want to bring in a strong 2-way presence, but he just isn't a 2nd line center on the Wings by a longshot.

I agree with your conclusion that the Wings could be better served by a more prolific goal scorer, however, he has in fact scored like a 2nd liner, even though his ice time, PP time, and linemates haven't always been 2nd line quality.

We just have a distorted idea of what a 2nd liner is supposed to be. We're spoiled by years of Yzerman, Fedorov, Datsyuk, Zetterberg and pre-cap depth.