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ComradeWasabi

Setoguchi

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Eh, Diven Devin is just like a lot of other hockey players in today's game. Draper embellishes practically everything, I don't blame Devin as much as I do the refs that refuse to call obvious dives and obvious high stick penalties.

Haha, that's true. Draper did a complete 360 on that obstruction he drew.

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“It was a penalty, but don’t dive and lay on the ice and embellish it,” Babcock said of Setoguchi. “You’re from Western Canada. Don’t do that crap.”

- In response to Setoguchi's dive on the Filp high stick.

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I was talking to friends during the second intermission and something came up.

Do you think it would be a good idea to have like a ref like member off the ice that reviews plays and during the intermission just shows them quickly to the refs on ice. I know it can't change calls already made but it can perhaps help refs determine certain things and call shenanigans when needed.

Like if a player dives, perhaps not be so quick to side with him next time something happens that they didn't get a great look at.

They often do have something like this during the playoffs, like a league representative or even director of officials. But as we see with reviews of goals in Toronto, even attempts to centralize and standardize calls doesn't seem to work.

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Ok I'm gonna preface this by saying this alone didn't cost the Wings the game (they can't fall behind 0-3 and go 0-5 on the PP while allowing the Sharks to go 2-6). But I've found a crappy-quality video. Begin around 2:24:

Watch the replay on the Franzen penalty. Franzens face was nicked after he tripped Seto. Seto was falling, his stick was waist high, Franzen caught it on his way down.

You're right on the first but not on the second. This replay pretty well dispels the idea that the highstick was because of the trip. Although Franzen's stick makes contact first, Setoguchi's stick is already coming up well before. Certainly, if Franzen is to be held responsible for the stick to the back of the leg that led to Setoguchi's best Greg Louganis impression, Setoguchi's gotta be responsible for his.

Edited by Third Man In

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The high stick and the trip happened almost simultaneously. A penalty on Franzen was the correct call. The no call on setoguchi was not the correct call. Also he dove like a champ on that "high stick". I yelled out "He fricken dove!" as soon as it happened and the announcer actually said something funny when watching the replay it was along the lines of "Setoguchi got hit in the wrist and lost control of his legs". I was cracking up at this...even if he got hit in the chest/maybe face.

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60.1 High-sticking - A “high stick” is one which is carried above the height of the opponent’s shoulders. Players and goalkeepers must be in control and responsible for their stick. However, a player or goalkeeper is permitted accidental contact on an opponent if the act is committed as a normal windup or follow through of a shooting motion. A wild swing at a bouncing puck would not be considered a normal windup or follow through and any contact to an opponent above the height of the shoulders shall be penalized accordingly.

Unfortunately I don't see a clause stating if player is falling(diving) and doesn't maintain control of his stick no penalty shall be assessed....

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Ok I'm gonna preface this by saying this alone didn't cost the Wings the game (they can't fall behind 0-3 and go 0-5 on the PP while allowing the Sharks to go 2-6). But I've found a crappy-quality video. Begin around 2:24:

You're right on the first but not on the second. This replay pretty well dispels the idea that the highstick was because of the trip. Although Franzen's stick makes contact first, Setoguchi's stick is already coming up well before. Certainly, if Franzen is to be held responsible for the stick to the back of the leg that led to Setoguchi's best Greg Louganis impression, Setoguchi's gotta be responsible for his.

Yep your right, looking at it again it does look like nearly simultaneous contact. Either way the point I was trying to make is, please don't get to the point where games are being decided by Refs. That drives me bat s***. Games are won and lost by players.

You should have seen all the whining going on in the last series, it got to the point where Sharks fans couldn't talk to Avs fans, it was really pathetic.

FYI: On the primary Sharks board, there is a poster named SJeasy, who is part of a group of people that review refs. Their data is highly statistical, and looks at measurables such as quality of skating, inteference with play, trends around calls (interference, rough stuff, diving etc.). I have found their assessment to be spot on. Prior to each game we get an announcement of who will be reffing the game and what to look for. Check it out. SJeasy ref discussion

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How about Setodouchei or Diveoguchi! :lol:

I wanted to punch that guy in that face last night, and the refs for being so ridiculous.

Edited by Pucks

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I think that if someone dives and it is clear it should be a suspension get rid of the crap in the game. And add a couple challange flags or something this refs missing or calling the wrong calls has gone to far.

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Yep your right, looking at it again it does look like nearly simultaneous contact. Either way the point I was trying to make is, please don't get to the point where games are being decided by Refs. That drives me bat s***. Games are won and lost by players.

You should have seen all the whining going on in the last series, it got to the point where Sharks fans couldn't talk to Avs fans, it was really pathetic.

FYI: On the primary Sharks board, there is a poster named SJeasy, who is part of a group of people that review refs. Their data is highly statistical, and looks at measurables such as quality of skating, inteference with play, trends around calls (interference, rough stuff, diving etc.). I have found their assessment to be spot on. Prior to each game we get an announcement of who will be reffing the game and what to look for. Check it out. SJeasy ref discussion

Agreed. The way the Wings PP was going, they probably would have declined any penalty on Setoguchi anyway. :lol: Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

Just be careful--that's twice in this thread that you've compared us to Dive fans. Them's fightin' words around here. :lol:

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Yep your right, looking at it again it does look like nearly simultaneous contact. Either way the point I was trying to make is, please don't get to the point where games are being decided by Refs. That drives me bat s***. Games are won and lost by players.

It really, really helps to have a man advantage on the ice. Having a two-man advantage helps a whole lot as well.

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Sorry, but have you watched the Wings for more than the last couple games? Dominik Hasek put together his reel for Hollywood in your nets.

Like any team in the NHL, players embellish penalties because they are worried the ref will miss them. I'm going to guess there are a dozen embellishments either way in this series, and if stop being such homers you'll see that for what it is. There are also going to be pick plays and interference (a line both teams push very well, with the Wings having the edge) and all kinds of clutching and grabbing. Holmer will be in the blue paint more than once and get away with it as often as not. It's all part of the game.

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How about Setodouchei or Diveoguchi!

Devin Setoguchi Diving Setoguppy sounds self explanatory enough.

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Just be careful--that's twice in this thread that you've compared us to Dive fans. Them's fightin' words around here. :lol:

Okay message received. This series is going to be chaotic, I hate to see people lose sight of the game and the enjoyment it brings us all.

The Refs have been atrocious all year, postseason in particular. At the end of the day if you look beyond it, it just becomes background noise. The winners of these series deserve what they get.

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The Refs have been atrocious all year, postseason in particular. At the end of the day if you look beyond it, it just becomes background noise. The winners of these series deserve what they get.

Exactly. There were some horrible calls against the Red Wings in game 7 against the Coyotes (including a non-goal from a quick whistle), but they still won 6-1. The Wings looked tired, especially at the beginning of the game, which is what I was expecting after a quick turn-around from game 7. It's just one game, and we've seen how they bounced back after every bad game in the previous series.

It is unfortunate that the game winning goal was on a questionable 5-3 power play, but going down 0-3 in the first period played at least as big of a role in the loss. Even if they had made it to overtime, there's no guarantee they would have won.

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Sorry, but have you watched the Wings for more than the last couple games? Dominik Hasek put together his reel for Hollywood in your nets.

Like any team in the NHL, players embellish penalties because they are worried the ref will miss them. I'm going to guess there are a dozen embellishments either way in this series, and if stop being such homers you'll see that for what it is. There are also going to be pick plays and interference (a line both teams push very well, with the Wings having the edge) and all kinds of clutching and grabbing. Holmer will be in the blue paint more than once and get away with it as often as not. It's all part of the game.

I am sick of people saying stuff like this. It is not against the rules to be in the paint, even when the puck goes in the net. It is against the rules to interfere with the goalie. Get over Homer being in the blue.

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cmon who cares? I am sure the wings have taking a dive here and there just like any other team.. <_<

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cmon who cares? I am sure the wings have taking a dive here and there just like any other team.. <_<

I've missed maybe 5 Wings games from the start of the season til now. This team doesn't dive, they have more pride then that and Babcock would chop their nuts off if they did.

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I came here to watch Playoff Hockey, not Olympic Diving tryouts. Everyone seems to be a salesmen, even Draper, but how many years has officiating ruined Playoff Hockey? I was stoked to see Wings and Sharks battle it out, its always good hockey. But here comes the Refs to screw things up for both sides. Yeah, we go the raw end of it, but I hated some of the weak calls we got in our favor. I wanna see teams win as fair and square as possible. The Wings could have won Game 1, but all the arguments in the won't change the fact that Game 2 is a new game. I expect the Wings to come out with better play and win this one despite the possible reffing issues that have yet to occur. But I hope the players will stop being cheap and just play like you mean it.

But as far as the reffing goes, I hate how nowadays it seems Champions are crowned in part by officiating (it is unavoidable, but they have had a bigger stake in it at times). I also dislike the "Let Them Play" attitude because its an excuse for a team to really start getting away with obvious penalties. However, the Gold Medal game. I loved how it was a LTP attitude because both sides really got into it and they let the minor stuff slip, but it seems that was a rarity.

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