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wingsownnhl43

Flippula vs Hudler

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Do you even remember last year? He played with Z and Bertuzzi for like 20 games to end the season. Before that it was a mix of Leino/Williams/Cleary/Bertuzzi/Miller/Ritola/Abdelkader. He was by far the best player with any combination, and his production showed that.

So you can disregard Hudler's cold streak but not Filppula's? How convenient for you.

I didn't disregard Hudler's cold streak. If you'll reread, I said that it's too early to use stats to judge a player's play for this season. I simply pointed out that Hudler and Flip had the same number of points in the past few games.

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Just looking at the skill set Hudler-Flip-Mule line makes a lot more sense for Hudler than Hudler-Modano-Cleary line. Cleary and Modano are both better finishers than playmakers meaning that Hudler had to take up a lot of play making slack, couple that with his size it makes him an obvious person to overload defensively and take out of the equation. With no one to make a play to either Modano or Cleary and as they both aren't great playmakers the line just couldn't click. So if I had any say (which I don't) I would keep the lines from tonight and see if tonights great play keeps up.

Edited by Shaman464

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I didn't disregard Hudler's cold streak. If you'll reread, I said that it's too early to use stats to judge a player's play for this season. I simply pointed out that Hudler and Flip had the same number of points in the past few games.

let me guess, first you voted for the war, then you voted against it... Piddler is done. He had one promising season (if that) and has fallen off since. He stunk up Russia, he is mediocre at best now. Hell, even Miroslav Frycer had a couple good seasons... The atrocity is that Miller and Eaves have to suffer for it. Piddler should be the one sitting, the second line was great without him, the third line was great (w/Abby) without him and the fourth line with Miller/Helm/Eaves was great without him. Sure he's a nice commodity to have, but as the 13th forward, NOT a top 12 let alone a top 6. IT is my hope that Holland is having Babcock showcase him on a top line to give him more minutes, so we can hopefully get a 5th round pick instead of a 6th round when he trades him. Guarantee, if the Wings make a deal between now and trade deadline, Piddler will be gone...

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So when Hudler was put on the second line, the spark the second line had was all Hudler, yet when Hudler was taken off the third line, it was pure coincidence that that just happened to be when Clears and Modano started to be able to hit the net or pass the puck?

Modano and Cleary were sending wild shots above and wide of the net earlier in the year. I can remember a couple plays that should have been sure goals but they put them over the net or wide of the net. Now Mo and Clears are not missing the net nearly as much. You tell me what happened.

The second line took off tonight when Hudler was swapped for Bert, scoring at even strength and the whole line was out for Mule's goal on the PP.

As for passing the puck, Modano's problem earlier in the year is that he WASN'T passing, not that he couldn't pass. He was trying to do too much on his own rather than using his teammates. Cleary was having serious puck movement issues in general, shot or pass, so he may well have had some minor wrist injury because he's looked better than he has in a long time the past few games.

Regardless, These are the lines I was asking for to start the year and they all played really well. So let's keep this moving and see where it goes.

let me guess, first you voted for the war, then you voted against it... Piddler is done. He had one promising season (if that) and has fallen off since. He stunk up Russia, he is mediocre at best now. Hell, even Miroslav Frycer had a couple good seasons... The atrocity is that Miller and Eaves have to suffer for it. Piddler should be the one sitting, the second line was great without him, the third line was great (w/Abby) without him and the fourth line with Miller/Helm/Eaves was great without him. Sure he's a nice commodity to have, but as the 13th forward, NOT a top 12 let alone a top 6. IT is my hope that Holland is having Babcock showcase him on a top line to give him more minutes, so we can hopefully get a 5th round pick instead of a 6th round when he trades him. Guarantee, if the Wings make a deal between now and trade deadline, Piddler will be gone...

You are wrong. It's not that Hudler's nice to have but not as a top 12/6...it's that LGW is a great forum to post on, just not when you're around.

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let me guess, first you voted for the war, then you voted against it... Piddler is done. He had one promising season (if that) and has fallen off since. He stunk up Russia, he is mediocre at best now. Hell, even Miroslav Frycer had a couple good seasons... The atrocity is that Miller and Eaves have to suffer for it. Piddler should be the one sitting, the second line was great without him, the third line was great (w/Abby) without him and the fourth line with Miller/Helm/Eaves was great without him. Sure he's a nice commodity to have, but as the 13th forward, NOT a top 12 let alone a top 6. IT is my hope that Holland is having Babcock showcase him on a top line to give him more minutes, so we can hopefully get a 5th round pick instead of a 6th round when he trades him. Guarantee, if the Wings make a deal between now and trade deadline, Piddler will be gone...

Damn man... Haha.

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You are wrong. It's not that Hudler's nice to have but not as a top 12/6...it's that LGW is a great forum to post on, just not when you're around.

Well, that another thing you have to thank Jiri for! You haven't noticed yet, but you are in the minority when it comes to Piddler, its not because of me, its because he sucks. If you would just take his wenis out of your mouth long enough you;d realize it...

edit: reality is, Miller and Eaves know and do their jobs better than him and at a fraction of the cost. He isn't as good as he used to be. He made one good play today, the rest of the night he got bounced around. If the Wings were playing anyone else but the Oilers, he wouldn't have been allowed to stand unmolested behind the net long enough to even make that one good play. Sit him, we wont miss him. This team is just as good, if not a little better without him...

Edited by LeftWinger

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Guest Crymson   
Guest Crymson

Yeah he thrives off that. He likes to fancy himself as a martyr for who he thinks is underrated.

I think this is all a function of Eva's pathological unwillingness to back down on an discussion claim, even when that clearly is clearly ridiculous and riddled with holes.

That said, Filppula is capable of producing as much offense as Hudler AND is much better defensively AND is far faster. I don't see where much of an argument in Hudler's favor can be made.

Edited by Crymson

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He's been doing that stuff all season; the problem as far as production he was having is that nobody on the Huds/Modo/Clears line could get the puck in the net while it was together. All three seem to be doing much better since it has been split up, so it may very well have been a chemistry issue.

He has spent a lot of time this season floating, giving up on scrums, getting knocked off the puck easily. Tonight I actually saw him more than once trying to dig the puck off the boards, and when he had the puck he was not looking rushed and it paid off on the first goal and almost paid off on the chance right before that. I have no illusions about changing your mind when it comes to Hudler, but you cannot honestly say that he was not looking like Robert Lang out there earlier in the season. Now that he is playing with more confidence, the goals will come. I agree that Hudler/Filppula/Franzen makes more sense in terms of the traditional roles Babcock likes to have on each line (shooter, playmaker, net presence) but until the last couple of games the BFF combo was arguably our best line and did not need to be tampered with.

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He has spent a lot of time this season floating, giving up on scrums, getting knocked off the puck easily. Tonight I actually saw him more than once trying to dig the puck off the boards, and when he had the puck he was not looking rushed and it paid off on the first goal and almost paid off on the chance right before that. I have no illusions about changing your mind when it comes to Hudler, but you cannot honestly say that he was not looking like Robert Lang out there earlier in the season. Now that he is playing with more confidence, the goals will come. I agree that Hudler/Filppula/Franzen makes more sense in terms of the traditional roles Babcock likes to have on each line (shooter, playmaker, net presence) but until the last couple of games the BFF combo was arguably our best line and did not need to be tampered with.

The BFF combo was the team's best line for the first four games. That's it. Flip's lack of production over the past six games before tonight illustrates that. If it were the team's "best" line he'd have been producing. Bertuzzi and Franzen each had three in six coming in, for seven total between the three. I would say Flip's line has been the third best since Abdelkader came back. Tonight the Franzen/Flip/Huds line might have been the best line out, but the past few games Franzen, Flip, and Bert together have been performing worse than DZH or the Modano line.

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That said, Filppula is capable of producing as much offense as Hudler AND is much better defensively AND is far faster. I don't see where much of an argument in Hudler's favor can be made.

Game. Set. Match.

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Filppula is the type of player a team needs to be competitive year in, year out. He's the ultimate role player that helps make this team elite. I think Filppula is one of, if not the most underrated player on this team.

Well said. :thumbup:

People obsess about Flip's point totals when there's no need to. He'll never be an amazingly consistent offensive point producer, I expect about 50 points to be the norm for him, but it's everything else he brings to the table. He's rock solid defensively, he's good on faceoffs, he can play PP and PK, he's getting stronger every year, and above all else, he is a big time playoff performer.

We're lucky to have this guy.

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This has been debated ad nauseum over the past 5-6 years, and I do realize that it is a relatively pointless debate being that we have both players. But are the die hard Hudler supporters ready to put this one to bed and eat crow?

:D

Apples, and Oranges, man. Apples and Oranges.

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The BFF combo was the team's best line for the first four games. That's it. Flip's lack of production over the past six games before tonight illustrates that. If it were the team's "best" line he'd have been producing. Bertuzzi and Franzen each had three in six coming in, for seven total between the three. I would say Flip's line has been the third best since Abdelkader came back. Tonight the Franzen/Flip/Huds line might have been the best line out, but the past few games Franzen, Flip, and Bert together have been performing worse than DZH or the Modano line.

I wouldn't say Flip's line was ever worse than Modano's. Fewer points in the past few games, but points aren't everything.

The BFF line was our best for the first four games. They were also close the first few games after Mule sat out the one game. The HFF line was arguably our best tonight. That says alot when we have a line featuring Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Also says a lot that before tonight, when he wasn't a healthy scratch, Hudler was a part of worst line pretty much every game.

Hudler hasn't been good this season, no matter how much you want to blame it all on Cleary and Modano, there's a reason Hudler sat out two games. Filppula has been very good, no matter how much you want to give all the credit to Bert and Mule, there's a reason he gets tons of ice time.

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Guest Shoreline   
Guest Shoreline

or Flip behind Hudler

I'm very afraid of where your mind has ventured off to..

Hudler hasn't had much of a good start at all. I haven't figured out why. Maybe he hasn't been put on the right lines? Injured? Playing too much defense instead of offense? Hit a horrible slump? I just hope he gets out of it.

Anyhow, I'm perfectly happy with this team after being only cautiously optimistic before the season started. Wings have a lot of potential this season, especially if the boys can manage to stay healthy. There's really nothing positive that can come from a thread like this pinning Wing vs. Wing, even though there's obviously a few people who feel that their contribution to fandom is bashing the living f*** out of or predicting doom and gloom for the things they supposedly cheer for.

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Tonight the Franzen/Flip/Huds line might have been the best line out, but the past few games Franzen, Flip, and Bert together have been performing worse than DZH or the Modano line.[/font]

The top three lines all produced two goals, so saying that FFH was the best line out there seems a bit subjective. (I don't want to know what specific stat line you're looking at, so don't bother.)

I'm not sold on Huds being top six, however he looked good and seemed to be working hard last night. I hope he "gets it" that he's being given a chance to prove himself and takes it upon himself to do so... and then keeps it up.

Just to keep things in perspective, we're all bitching about our respective "favorite" players having to sit, and in the meantime we keep winning.

What a terrible problem to have!

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Valandhudsonly.jpg

Flip vs Hootie? Not gonna happen. They're on the same team. They're friends. They're on the same side. It's not a competition. It's not a fight. It's a beautiful friendship; a meeting of two individuals from different lands and different cultures, joined together in striving towards a common goal: winning the Stanley Cup.

Competition? Flip is hot and sexy. Hudler can cluck. No contest.

I'm holding out judgment until the playoffs. Both of them seem to come alive then. I'm pleased with how Flip is doing so far this season. I'd like to see Huds do more, but I know that once the outside ice melts, I will be very thankful that we have both on the team.

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there's a reason Hudler sat out two games.

Yep. Cleary is one of Babcock's favorites, and Modano is not going to sit unless he wants to. Babs has never been a Huds fan, and the fourth line was playing well. So Hudler was doomed to sit with the line not meshing.

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Guest Crymson   
Guest Crymson

Yep. Cleary is one of Babcock's favorites, and Modano is not going to sit unless he wants to. Babs has never been a Huds fan, and the fourth line was playing well. So Hudler was doomed to sit with the line not meshing.

Oh, god. This is really bad, Eva. Modano was in because Babcock wanted him on the first PP unit while Rafalski was out, and Cleary was in because he brings more to the team than just scoring. This was made very clear several times by Ken and Mickey. Hudler was simply and very clearly the least useful player on a successful squad for some time. Babcock could have simply continued scratching him, but instead he sat other, more valuable players, gambling that he might be able to get Hudler moving on the scoresheet. Hudler being scratched never had anything to do with any imaginary dislike Babcock may have for him.

Yeesh. Like I said, try harder.

Edited by Crymson

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Yep. Cleary is one of Babcock's favorites, and Modano is not going to sit unless he wants to. Babs has never been a Huds fan, and the fourth line was playing well. So Hudler was doomed to sit with the line not meshing.

No offense Eva, but this sounds like pouting.

I don't think Huds is even doing that. Haven't heard a cluck out of him about this whole playing/not playing/what line am I on/I want to be on line ______.

Last night was great because he went out and played hard.

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