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wingsownnhl43

Flippula vs Hudler

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Oh, god. This is really bad, Eva. Modano was in because Babcock wanted him on the first PP unit while Rafalski was out, and Cleary was in because he brings more to the team than just scoring. This was made very clear several times by Ken and Mickey. Hudler was literally the most useless player on the team for some time. Babcock could have simply continued scratching him, but instead he sat other, more valuable players, gambling that he might be able to get Hudler moving on the scoresheet. None of this had anything to do with Babcock disliking Hudler.

Yeesh. Like I said, try harder.

I still don't get the Modano PP thing. He has been terrible on the point (and up until recently ineffective at forward.) At least Sammy and JWill were good point men. Lidstrom, Kronwall, Stuart, and Ericsson or Kindl could have been the PP blueline.

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Guest Crymson   
Guest Crymson

I still don't get the Modano PP thing. He has been terrible on the point (and up until recently ineffective at forward.) At least Sammy and JWill were good point men. Lidstrom, Kronwall, Stuart, and Ericsson or Kindl could have been the PP blueline.

Kronwall and Stuart WERE playing on the PP. Kindl got some time also, but he proved he really wasn't ready. Ericsson was out with injury, as you may have completely forgotten, and Modano had begun scoring again by the time Ericsson returned.

You've just said that Williams was an effective pointman on the power play. I don't think that statement even warrants a response.

Your arguments here are getting weaker and weaker, Eva.

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Kronwall and Stuart WERE playing on the PP. Kindl got some time also, but he proved he really wasn't ready. Ericsson was out with injury, as you may have completely forgotten, and Modano had begun scoring again by the time Ericsson returned.

You've just said that Williams was an effective pointman on the power play. I don't think that statement even warrants a response.

Your arguments here are getting weaker and weaker, Eva.

Williams was decent on the point. He wasn't great, but he was certainly better than a lot of other options.

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Flippula has definitely played better then Hudler. I think if they really want Huds to get going put him on a line with Pav and or z just for a game or two and if that doesn't get him going sit him

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While this thread is doomed to go nowhere fast, I'll have to throw my vote to Filppula. I think Hudler has the ability to make more offensively creative plays, but I think Flip is the better overall player. His speed really helps him offensively, which helps him to catch up with Hudler's hands. When it comes to defensive play, it's no contest.

Filppula has made some Datsyukian defensive plays this season. He's really impressed me with some of his back-checking and his stick work (no homo). To me he looks faster than ever. He just needs to make better decisions with the puck, IMO.

I think if they really want Huds to get going put him on a line with Pav and or z just for a game or two and if that doesn't get him going sit him

He looked decent last night on the 2nd line. I see no reason to mess with the lines given the way they played last night. Yeah, it was Edmonton, but give it a few games to see where he goes from here.

I noticed that Hudler seems to struggle with some of the basic things on the ice. He seems to chip the puck into the wrong places, or make errant passes. He also seems like he's rushing to get rid of the puck a lot of the time. He just needs to calm down and show some of the poise he did before.

Edited by Jesusberg

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I don't get it. Filppula is on pace for more points, he's faster, more defensively responsible, he takes faceoffs, he kills penalties, he can play on the power play, he's VERSATILE (ie. he can play with more than one set of linemates and his performance doesn't necessarily suffer. Unlike Hudler, who as eva can attest, plays poorly when he doesn't have good linemates). I simply can't see how you would ever pick Hudler over Filppula.

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I don't get it. Filppula is on pace for more points, he's faster, more defensively responsible, he takes faceoffs, he kills penalties, he can play on the power play, he's VERSATILE (ie. he can play with more than one set of linemates and his performance doesn't necessarily suffer. Unlike Hudler, who as eva can attest, plays poorly when he doesn't have good linemates). I simply can't see how you would ever pick Hudler over Filppula.

Well said. I don't think Hudler is a bad player but Filppula is the better all-around player. I think he looks better than ever this year. I really like his hustle, it's like Dan Cleary-esque hustle but with more skill. To me, it looks like he watches Datsyuk alot. Fil looks much more capable of consistant 2nd line minutes than he ever has. He looks stronger and more confidant.

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Guest Heaten   
Guest Heaten

Yep. Cleary is one of Babcock's favorites, and Modano is not going to sit unless he wants to. Babs has never been a Huds fan, and the fourth line was playing well. So Hudler was doomed to sit with the line not meshing.

Hudler isn't Babcock's favorite because he can't do anything but score... and he's not even doing that. Of course Cleary should be in the lineup over Hudler. Who do you want out there killing penalties, Hudler or Cleary? Who do you want out there the last 1 minute of play in the 3rd period during a 2-1 game? Cleary or Hudler?

Cleary should be one of Babcock's favorites, the man is a ******* beast in all three zones of the ice and he's the true definition of clutch. What's not to like? What does Hudler bring to the table when he's not an offensive threat? Liability.

Oh, and....

Red Wings' Mike Babcock questions Jiri Hudler's consistency Read more: Red Wings' Mike Babcock questions Jiri Hudler's consistency | freep.com | Detroit Free Press http://www.freep.com...y#ixzz156FugMid
Edited by Heaten

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I thought Hudler looked much more confident with the puck last night. Great patience behind the net.

That said he's still probably one of the absolute worst players in the entire league without the puck. He's lost a step, and has lost nearly every battle for the puck in all three zones. He's lucky he's on a line where Flippula and Franzen can come up with the puck on the fore-check, and keep possession. I've been extremely disappointed with how little Hudler battles, it's one thing if it's just physical limitations, but he's not even in proper position, it seems mental more than anything. Hopefully it's just rust, but it's getting a little late for that excuse to continue.

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IMO Flip is a much better all-around player than Huds. I could see Huds putting up more points than Flip, but I don't think that he is a better hockey player in the total sense. I'm glad that the Wings have both- as long as Huds steps up the rest of the season. Huds certainly has more obvious weaknesses than Flip, but that isn't to say that he doesn't have many strengths.

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Hudler isn't Babcock's favorite because he can't do anything but score... and he's not even doing that. Of course Cleary should be in the lineup over Hudler. Who do you want out there killing penalties, Hudler or Cleary?

Eaves, Miller, Filppula, Helm, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg.

Who do you want out there the last 1 minute of play in the 3rd period during a 2-1 game? Cleary or Hudler?

Who do you want out there in the last minute of a game when you're down a goal, Hudler or Cleary?

Who do you want setting up and running your power play, Hudler or Cleary?

It's a matter of situations. One is better at some and the other is better at others. Wow, shocking.

Cleary should be one of Babcock's favorites, the man is a ******* beast in all three zones of the ice and he's the true definition of clutch. What's not to like? What does Hudler bring to the table when he's not an offensive threat? Liability.

For the first 8-10 games, Cleary wasn't bringing his offense and was playing well below the expected level defensively. So you can't just say "Cleary is a beast in all three zones, so he has to be in" because that has the same validity as if I were to say "Hudler is the second best playmaker on the team, so he has to be in."

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Yep. Cleary is one of Babcock's favorites, and Modano is not going to sit unless he wants to. Babs has never been a Huds fan, and the fourth line was playing well. So Hudler was doomed to sit with the line not meshing.

That's just silly. Cleary plays because he works his ass off every shift and is the most versatile forward on the team. Not to mention, he has six times as many goals as Hudler, seven more points, is a respectable plus two after starting in a huge hole (Hudler is still a minus six) and he kills penalties. If Cleary is one of Babcock's favorites, it's because he earned it - something Hudler has yet to do even remotely this season. I'm not saying that Modano and Cleary don't share some fault for the third line not clicking, but they seem to be doing rather well now with Abdelkader or Bertuzzi as the third member. Hudler looked better against the Oilers, but Babcock is exactly right in that he needs to bring that effort far more consistently than he has to this point.

I like Hudler, am geninuely glad he came back and feel he will be a valuable asset to the Red Wings as the season progesses. I couldn't care less about the Filppula vs. Hudler debate because they are both Red Wings and I don't give a crap about one side of the respective player's fans being able to say they were right all along. We should all want both of them to succeed.

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Guest Crymson   
Guest Crymson

Who do you want out there in the last minute of a game when you're down a goal, Hudler or Cleary?

Cleary. That answer required NO thought whatsoever.

Who do you want setting up and running your power play, Hudler or Cleary?

Cleary can't do that. Neither can Hudler. Your claims about Hudler are becoming more and more absurd.

It's a matter of situations. One is better at some and the other is better at others. Wow, shocking.

Cleary is a great two-way forward capable of 20-25 goals and 40-50 points per season. Hudler capable of offense, but he's a total liability when he doesn't have the puck.

For the first 8-10 games, Cleary wasn't bringing his offense and was playing well below the expected level defensively. So you can't just say "Cleary is a beast in all three zones, so he has to be in" because that has the same validity as if I were to say "Hudler is the second best playmaker on the team, so he has to be in."

Err...

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Who do you want out there in the last minute of a game when you're down a goal, Hudler or Cleary?

Cleary, because this season if it's Huds out there, there's a good chance you'll end up down two goals.

Who do you want setting up and running your power play, Hudler or Cleary?

Neither?

It's a matter of situations. One is better at some and the other is better at others. Wow, shocking.[/font]

For the first 8-10 games, Cleary wasn't bringing his offense and was playing well below the expected level defensively. So you can't just say "Cleary is a beast in all three zones, so he has to be in" because that has the same validity as if I were to say "Hudler is the second best playmaker on the team, so he has to be in."

Cleary was "well below the expected level defensively" because he had two anchors around his neck as he skated.

At the end of games, Babcock has been putting Cleary out there with Zetterberg and Datsyuk. Why do you think that is?

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Guest Stolberg   
Guest Stolberg

cleary wouldn't look so good if it weren't for hudler playing so poorly!

dan should be thanking jiri every day.

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Having played with nearly every forward on the roster somewhere along the way, Bertuzzi isn't fazed from the line switching. As long as he pays attention to details defensively, he believes he'll be fine.

"It has everything to do with having Pav and Z — two players as good as they are offensively probably better defensively," Bertuzzi said. "When you have guys like myself and (the other forwards) and they see how they play and how they do it — if they can do it, you can do it, too."

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20101113/SPORTS0103/11130367/Todd-Bertuzzi-is-driving-Wings’-winning#ixzz158vOuBnF

Yeah, Hudler. :P

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You win at math. Here's a cookie.

Wow, I take it you have no real argument then if that's the only response you could generate to my post?

I could have said Hudler has no goals. Would that have been better stated or is that stat directly due to global warming, Mike Modano, Dan Cleary, Mike Babcock, or some combination of the above?

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Dastyuk is the best all-around player in the league. Ovechikin/Crosby are the most potent offensively. Who would you rather have?

Filppula is the better all around player. Hudler is better offensively. Who would you rather have?

Would you be happy if these players were on your team? Yes.

I rest my case.

Who do you want out there in the last minute of a game when you're down a goal, Hudler or Cleary?

Cleary. Is that even a joke? Cleary scores clutch goals. And I don't even like Cleary and it's obvious.

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Dastyuk is the best all-around player in the league. Ovechikin/Crosby are the most potent offensively. Who would you rather have?

Filppula is the better all around player. Hudler is better offensively. Who would you rather have?

Would you be happy if these players were on your team? Yes.

I rest my case.

Cleary. Is that even a joke? Cleary scores clutch goals. And I don't even like Cleary and it's obvious.

Hudler has scored plenty of clutch goals in his career. Being a favorite whipping boy kind of takes recognition away from that, much like it did for Mikael Samuelsson.

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How anyone in their right mind could think that Hudler is an overall better NHL Player than Flip is beyond me. :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

Edited by rage

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