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Enforcer Poll

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Enforcer Poll   90 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you support a Prust, Konopka, Rupp type enforcer on the Wings?

    • Yes, and I have played competative hockey in NA
      23
    • Yes, and I have NOT played competative hockey in NA
      19
    • No, and I have played competative hockey in NA
      24
    • No, and I have NOT played competative hockey in NA
      8

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87 posts in this topic

...but please just someone that stands up to somebody! The Wings are a bunch of Pu$ies... A player gives your BEST defensman an illegal head shot, breaking his jaw and sidelining him for 6 weeks and.nobody.does.a.thing. Even Abdelkader was right there and didnt do a thing... Sure, I know the Wings can win without this type of player, but it would come alot easier if the opposing jack-assess had something else to worry about out there.

I really, strongly agree with this. I know most people on here don't agree, but my observation is that the Wings the last few years consistently have trouble with the really physical teams. Philly has come in the last couple years and wiped them across the ice. Nashville is a problem, St. Louis is a problem, the Wild also if I recall correctly. I hate watching our guys get run, and before anyone flies off the handle, the quote from Babcock from back when the Wings first picked up May (for an exhibition or tryout? I can't remember the details) shows that the coach feels the same.

I see the argument over and over that "the Wings win without a fighter!". OK, that's true, they are winning regular season games. I'm not disputing that. Until they win it all without at least the toughness of even an end-of-career Drake and McCarty, I'm not convinced. Show me the Cup and I'll admit I was wrong; until then, I think there's room for the debate.

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I see the argument over and over that "the Wings win without a fighter!". OK, that's true, they are winning regular season games. I'm not disputing that. Until they win it all without at least the toughness of even an end-of-career Drake and McCarty, I'm not convinced. Show me the Cup and I'll admit I was wrong; until then, I think there's room for the debate.

This is something that I dont get either, people are always like, well the wings always win so why change anything?

But the fact of the matter is, the times that Detroit has won the cup, they have had some very physical players in their lineup and have not won when they have not. I'm not saying an enforcer, but they have always had guys with a mean streak. It can be argued whether or not this is true, but I think physicality has a larger impact than most people on here would like to acknowledge.

Drake and Mccarty in 08 on forward, Stuart and Kronwall on defense

02 had a Mccarty, Shanny, a younger Chelios, Fischer (broke his stick across a guys face in the finals, god I miss him :( )

and everyone knows how tough the 97 and 98 teams were.

I think being physical in the playoffs is really underrated on these boards, partially because a lot of people haven't played hockey and partially because a lot of fans became fans when they became more euopeanized

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I don't really give a crap whether we have an enforcer or not so long as we win the cup. Teams have won with and they've won without, including the Wings.

As for entertainment value, given how ridiculously staged most of the fights between the 'real' enforcers are these days, I'm pretty ambivalent there, too. It's like WWE on ice. Now, if you want to give me a scrappy guy that chips in other ways (like Prust), then sure, if it's for a reasonable price. But I don't want to see the team break the bank either in salary or assets for one, either.

It's all situational.

Drake and Mccarty in 08 on forward, Stuart and Kronwall on defense

There are people on the roster now that are as physical and fight as much as Drake (in his last year, I mean, not prime Drake). As for D-Mac.. well, he was at the twilight of his career, and that included his enforcing ability.

I'd make a bigger argument for Downey, except that he didn't play during the playoffs at all, and we have players now who can bring what Drake/D-Mac did. On the matter of Downey again... honestly, he brought more as a good teammate and an exuberant lockerroom presence (from what I've heard of his good attitude) than he did as an enforcer (let's be honest, Downey was never a great fighter). I'm glad to have him with the org on the farm with his attitude and work ethic.

Edited by Datsyerberger
dobbles likes this

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As for entertainment value, given how ridiculously staged most of the fights between the 'real' enforcers are these days, I'm pretty ambivalent there, too. It's like WWE on ice... But I don't want to see the team break the bank either in salary or assets for one, either.

Yeah, I meant to put something in my previous post related to this. I think it's really a multifaceted issue, because I also think the Instigator rule should be taken away to allow real enforcing; by which I mean if Cooke throws a cheap shot, the enforcer goes after Cooke directly. I can sort of see the point made by the blog post someone posted a link to earlier which is that since guys don't have to fight, they don't fear the other team's fighter. I don't think it's fair to put up a barrier to the self-policing by the players, then say fighting doesn't help players policing the ice. I don't think it's a bad thing if the off-the-faceoff goon fights are tapered back, though I don't have a problem with them particularly.

Drake and Mccarty in 08 on forward, Stuart and Kronwall on defense

I think it's also worth noting that at least to my memory, Kronwall played a more physical game that year than he has lately.

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Miller, Draper, Eaves, Abs, and Helm, theres 5 people in 3 spots in the bottom 3, and then theres the cap, and that pesky idea that a player that will play 3 minutes a night and sit 5 mines in the box puts more strain on the Wings other lines that just makes this seem like another useless dumb debate about enforcers.

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As I've said numerous times. It'd be more beneficial to have a 5th/6th Enforcer Type Defenseman as they play more than a 4th line grinder and we all would agree that Ericsson and Salei's spots aren't safe.

Who are some physical enforcer type D men you would like to see?

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Enforcers are usually meat heads and take stupid penalties.

The best guys to have who can drop the gloves are McCarty and Lapointe type players, they only fight when they have to, actually play 15-18 minutes a game, and can contribute to the main objective in hockey, outscoring your opponent.

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I don't support enforcers, or skill players, or boneheads, or tough guys, or divers, or agitaters. I support the Red Wings. I don't believe in overly supporting one type of player in the NHL when it's teamwork and an effective system that the team buys into, effectively turns that into wins. It's almost like trying to talk sense into a religion.

I also chose a null vote. I know. I'm a crappy fence sitter.

Edited by Shoreline
Konnan511 likes this

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Fischer

Fischer was everything teams look for in a defenseman. He was big. He was a GREAT skater. He was strong defensively. He had good puck skills. He could hit HARD. He had one of the league's hardest shots, and the offensive side of his game was coming together nicely. Fischer would be a top-10 defenseman in the NHL and Lidstrom would be retired or at least playing in a reduced role if Jiri did not have his heart issue.

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Define competitive hockey.

Are you talking college/minor league level? Or does anyone who played on a hockey team when they were six count?

Since by that poll 2/3's of people here have played competitive hockey, and I find that hard to believe, unless everyone is considering the time they played roller hockey in a parking lot to be "Competitive NA hockey".

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Enforcers are usually meat heads and take stupid penalties.

The best guys to have who can drop the gloves are McCarty and Lapointe type players, they only fight when they have to, actually play 15-18 minutes a game, and can contribute to the main objective in hockey, outscoring your opponent.

Downey and May took less stupid penalties than Bertuzzi and Salei.

I don't see any basis for your post, unless you consider matching fighting majors as stupid penalties.

F.Michael and uk_redwing like this

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As I've said numerous times. It'd be more beneficial to have a 5th/6th Enforcer Type Defenseman as they play more than a 4th line grinder and we all would agree that Ericsson and Salei's spots aren't safe.

Who are some physical enforcer type D men you would like to see?

The conventional wisdom is that a forward is more expendable and can therefore more easily sit in the penalty box; but I see where you're coming from, and would be fine with a D-man.

I watch a lot of Bruins hockey, and they lament wanting a puck-mover defenseman, but from my perspective what they do have is a good corps of physical, punishing defensemen. I like the way Mark Stuart, Dennis Seidenburg, Adam McQuaid and maybe Boychuk play. I'd take any of them in a heartbeat. McQuaid probably fights the most, since Stuart was injured. Otherwise, there's been discussion of Carkner in the Ottawa thread, and I would be happy with that. Shea Weber would be good by me, though I'm honestly not sure how much he could enforce. All I can think of at the moment; I've had a few whiskeys while watching hockey...

Miller, Draper, Eaves, Abs, and Helm, theres 5 people in 3 spots in the bottom 3, and then theres the cap, and that pesky idea that a player that will play 3 minutes a night and sit 5 mines in the box puts more strain on the Wings other lines that just makes this seem like another useless dumb debate about enforcers.

"Useless" is your opinion, and you're making a lot of assumptions without adding a lot of substance.

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The conventional wisdom is that a forward is more expendable and can therefore more easily sit in the penalty box; but I see where you're coming from, and would be fine with a D-man.

I watch a lot of Bruins hockey, and they lament wanting a puck-mover defenseman, but from my perspective what they do have is a good corps of physical, punishing defensemen. I like the way Mark Stuart, Dennis Seidenburg, Adam McQuaid and maybe Boychuk play. I'd take any of them in a heartbeat. McQuaid probably fights the most, since Stuart was injured. Otherwise, there's been discussion of Carkner in the Ottawa thread, and I would be happy with that. Shea Weber would be good by me, though I'm honestly not sure how much he could enforce. All I can think of at the moment; I've had a few whiskeys while watching hockey...

"Useless" is your opinion, and you're making a lot of assumptions without adding a lot of substance.

Useless because we can debate this idea all night and all day its not going to materialize an enforcer on to the wings.

HankthaTank likes this

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I don't really give a crap whether we have an enforcer or not so long as we win the cup. Teams have won with and they've won without, including the Wings.

There are people on the roster now that are as physical and fight as much as Drake (in his last year, I mean, not prime Drake). As for D-Mac.. well, he was at the twilight of his career, and that included his enforcing ability.

The wings have never won a cup without a guy considered an enforcer, just sayin'. I dont think this means you need an enforcer to win, but in playoffs you can't get by on just skill, there needs to be balance. And this team has NO forwards capable of doing what Drake did on that playoff run. Abdelkader in a couple years maybe but Drake was a machine.

As I've said numerous times. It'd be more beneficial to have a 5th/6th Enforcer Type Defenseman as they play more than a 4th line grinder and we all would agree that Ericsson and Salei's spots aren't safe.

Who are some physical enforcer type D men you would like to see?

I think a defenseman like that would be beneficial, but it is better to have a forward as the designated enforcer type because its easier to compensate for him while he is serving 5 minutes.

The ideal guy would be Carkner, I dont know if he would be available but he is cheap, can PK play over 15 minutes a night and is a top 3 tough guy.

Boston has a bunch of guys, Mcquaid would be a good 6th defenseman.

Salei really isn't that great back there that he couldn't be replaced with a guy like that, we could use a bit more bite back there really. Ericcson's physical game would probably step up if he was partnered with a guy like Carkner as well. Sheldon Brookbank would be just as good as Salei too.

Itll be interesting to see who we sign to play the 6th spot after this season

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Useless because we can debate this idea all night and all day its not going to materialize an enforcer on to the wings.

OK. In that sense, nothing said on these forums is "useful". My opinion, the conversations are interesting; but from your point of view, not sure why you bother reading or posting at all unless your name is Ken Holland because it would be "useless". Not going to derail the thread by continuing down this track, though.

To newfy: I forgot about Brookbank. That might be good too.

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OK. In that sense, nothing said on these forums is "useful". My opinion, the conversations are interesting; but from your point of view, not sure why you bother reading or posting at all unless your name is Ken Holland because it would be "useless". Not going to derail the thread by continuing down this track, though.

To newfy: I forgot about Brookbank. That might be good too.

Don't worry I will. It has been shown since the institution of the cap a team must pick its players a lot more carefully than they had to before. A one dimensional enforcer aren't a part of what the Wings Philosophy uses to make a complete team. The wings system is built around two scoring lines that are also defensively sound, a third energy line that can score on occasion and a fourth with young kids/shut down players. I would support a 5th/6th physical defenseman who also can fight because that would fit into the wings system better.

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Our third and fourth lines are perfect. I would not want to mess with them at all. They all have speedy guys who keep the puck in the opponents zone all game long, you just simply do not mess with that.

Our third pairing defense, could use a shake up.

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its ******* entertaining, and why do we watch the wings? cuz its ******* entertaining, and it would be more entertaining if the wings beat the s*** out of some people in the process.

+1 Ahh for s***'s sake, that is just gold! Manage the fight card to keep the time in the box to an acceptable level and grab that can-o-whoopass. I would be very entertained and very happy.

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Our third and fourth lines are perfect. I would not want to mess with them at all. They all have speedy guys who keep the puck in the opponents zone all game long, you just simply do not mess with that.

Our third pairing defense, could use a shake up.

Agreed, Salei was mediocre at best tonight.

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Enforcers are usually meat heads and take stupid penalties.

The best guys to have who can drop the gloves are McCarty and Lapointe type players, they only fight when they have to, actually play 15-18 minutes a game, and can contribute to the main objective in hockey, outscoring your opponent.

pla

I think that's the type of player most people here want. We don't want a dumb meathead who can barely skate, we want players that can play, but are willing to fight to defend their team-mates.

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Our third and fourth lines are perfect. I would not want to mess with them at all. They all have speedy guys who keep the puck in the opponents zone all game long, you just simply do not mess with that.

Our third pairing defense, could use a shake up.

Yep, lately our 3rd and 4th lines are playing a better puck possession game than our top lines are.

I like our current team, and I like our prospects. We could be a LOT worse off.

I think it would be nice to have an Enforcer on the books, someone we could call up from the minors for a few games here and there, or in a particularly chippy playoff series....but I don't think we should replace anyone on the current roster with an enforcer type. Even our rookies are playing our system well, and showing marked improvement.

What I would like is for guys like Applefritter to take a more physical role.

In the playoffs a lot of our guys step up their physical play. If we lose in the playoffs, I firmly believe that it is not the lack of an enforcer that will do it. I'll eat my words if I'm wrong, and we get the crap beat out of us, but until then I happen to like having the highest scoring roster in the entire NHL. Just saying, a pretty big accomplishment considering we're missing half a dozen guys.

Edited by Joey v3.4

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