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Some possible NEEDED changes in the Offseason

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This place is f**ked which is part of the reason I love it here but we have lost 2 games in a row, played like s*** and now it's going to be 2343 offseason threads...have some faith. I like how the OP put in the disclaimer at the start of his post ...

"Ok folks, I'm not one to panic and say the sky is falling, nor am I one to be negative when things get bumpy."

That is exactly what you are doing !

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This place is f**ked which is part of the reason I love it here but we have lost 2 games in a row, played like s*** and now it's going to be 2343 offseason threads...have some faith. I like how the OP put in the disclaimer at the start of his post ...

"Ok folks, I'm not one to panic and say the sky is falling, nor am I one to be negative when things get bumpy."

That is exactly what you are doing !

Relax. It's just speculation. Nothing else to talk about...

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Good post. I like the idea of getting Laich, but I can't imagine the Caps letting him go. He's their true leader. I like the trades you have, but no way would the Blues give us Stewart and Bogosian isn't going anywhere. Lose Hudler, Kindl, and Bertuzzi? Yes. Lose Kronwall? No. I've been saying since last year that we need to start looking to rebuild the defense and not really because of performance either, but simply because they're not going to be around forever. Lidstrom has maybe another year left and Rafalski will be gone after next year. I think Kronwall is good enough to be on the top pair, but not Stuart and our 5th and 6th defenseman are barely good enough to hold those spots. The strength of this team needs to be the defensemen and I feel like Holland has been paying maybe too much attention to the forwards situation and needs to put the focus back on what drives this team the most.

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To the OP and others concerned with the future of our blue line...rest assured.

Shea Weber is a RFA this off-season. So, I'm guessing that he'll probably be an UFA next off-season...when Rafalski's 6m/yr contract comes off the books.

Drew Doughty is a RFA next off-season. So I'm guessing that he'll probably be an UFA the next off-season...when Lidstrom's 6m-ish/yr contract will probably come off the books. (Suter and Burns will also be a UFA that year).

Both played for Babs and Holland on Team Canada...both are young...both are very, very, very good.

:)

Edited by blueadams

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To the OP and others concerned with the future of our blue line...rest assured.

Shea Weber is a RFA this off-season. So, I'm guessing that he'll probably be an UFA next off-season...when Rafalski's 6m/yr contract comes off the books.

Drew Doughty is a RFA next off-season. So I'm guessing that he'll probably be an UFA the next off-season...when Lidstrom's 6m-ish/yr contract will probably come off the books.

Both played for Babs and Holland on Team Canada...both are young...both are very, very, very good.

:)

both will sign deals longer than 1 year with their current teams.

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both will sign deals longer than 1 year with their current teams.

Maybe we should establish ourselves as the Miami Heat of the NHL and inform both that we'll be signing them if they become UFA's.

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Maybe we should establish ourselves as the Miami Heat of the NHL and inform both that we'll be signing them if they become UFA's.

I'm sure the fines and sanctions would be glorious.

Also, Teemu isn't leaving Anaheim. Not a chance.

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I'm sure the fines and sanctions would be glorious.

Also, Teemu isn't leaving Anaheim. Not a chance.

1) There are ways to get messages across the wire.

2) Maybe - it might be his last season, he'll want to make it count.

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The first priorities in the offseason are:

Keep Lidstrom, and sign another defenseman, preferably Joni Pitkanen or Christian Ehrhoff. Yes, Shea Weber would be great... but I don't see the Wings giving up the picks. And even if they were willing to, I would expect Nashville to match anyway. If he could be had via trade, it would definitely involve Kronwall and a 1st (maybe more picks than that), plus probably a forward (most likely Filppula or Hudler) and possibly a good prospect or two. If Lidstrom retires, sign another defenseman to fill his spot. Holland likely plans on keeping Ericsson, so the new defenseman would be taking Salei's roster spot.

Secure backup goaltending. Osgood intends to come back, so if he is healthy and able expect that. Likely Holland will also sign a veteran who is capable of playing in the NHL and will sign at or close to minimum. If Osgood can't come back, Holland will sign someone else for a similar salary level. No, it won't be Larsson, and no, it won't be Conklin.

Fill out forward corps. Modano, Draper, Eaves, and Miller are UFAs. Emmerton and Mursak are signed and cannot go to Grand Rapids next year without being waived; neither would pass. Modano will almost certainly be gone, given that he's been relegated to 14th forward and has realized that he didn't really have the desire to play another season. Draper is likely to retire. Eaves and Miller are both good PK guys, but ultimately only one needs to return. Helm/Dats/Z/Abby/Flip/Cleary all play PK... if Huds keeps improving defensively and physically he might see time there also.

This leaves one roster spot and probably around $4m-$5m in cap space. This could tack on a solid second line forward or a good defenseman. Perhaps instead of Lidstrom/Pitkanen/Ericsson the Wings can go Lidstrom/Pitkanen/Ehrhoff with that kind of cap space change? Lidstrom/Ehrhoff/Kronwall/Pitkanen/Rafalski/Stuart is a downright scary top-six. Kindl stays on as the seventh guy.

Then you keep a versatile guy like Meech at minimum wage for the 23rd spot, or just run with 22.

Huds/Dats/Cleary

Franzen/Z/Holmstrom

Bertuzzi/Filppula/Eaves

Abdelkader/Helm/Mursak

Emmerton

Lidstrom/Rafalski

Kronwall/Stuart

Ehrhoff/Pitkanen

Kindl

Howard

Osgood

After next year, Kronner, Raffi, and Stuart all go UFA. Lidstrom also, if he stays after this season. Rafalski will probably retire, and likely Lidstrom if he is still around at that point. Kronwall will probably be retained, and Stuart is questionable depending on what other defensemen are on the team, what's going on with Ericsson/Kindl/Smith/etc. So over the next two to three seasons we're seeing a complete turnover defensively.

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The first priorities in the offseason are:

Keep Lidstrom, and sign another defenseman, preferably Joni Pitkanen or Christian Ehrhoff. Yes, Shea Weber would be great... but I don't see the Wings giving up the picks. And even if they were willing to, I would expect Nashville to match anyway. If he could be had via trade, it would definitely involve Kronwall and a 1st (maybe more picks than that), plus probably a forward (most likely Filppula or Hudler) and possibly a good prospect or two. If Lidstrom retires, sign another defenseman to fill his spot. Holland likely plans on keeping Ericsson, so the new defenseman would be taking Salei's roster spot.

Secure backup goaltending. Osgood intends to come back, so if he is healthy and able expect that. Likely Holland will also sign a veteran who is capable of playing in the NHL and will sign at or close to minimum. If Osgood can't come back, Holland will sign someone else for a similar salary level. No, it won't be Larsson, and no, it won't be Conklin.

Fill out forward corps. Modano, Draper, Eaves, and Miller are UFAs. Emmerton and Mursak are signed and cannot go to Grand Rapids next year without being waived; neither would pass. Modano will almost certainly be gone, given that he's been relegated to 14th forward and has realized that he didn't really have the desire to play another season. Draper is likely to retire. Eaves and Miller are both good PK guys, but ultimately only one needs to return. Helm/Dats/Z/Abby/Flip/Cleary all play PK... if Huds keeps improving defensively and physically he might see time there also.

This leaves one roster spot and probably around $4m-$5m in cap space. This could tack on a solid second line forward or a good defenseman. Perhaps instead of Lidstrom/Pitkanen/Ericsson the Wings can go Lidstrom/Pitkanen/Ehrhoff with that kind of cap space change? Lidstrom/Ehrhoff/Kronwall/Pitkanen/Rafalski/Stuart is a downright scary top-six. Kindl stays on as the seventh guy.

Then you keep a versatile guy like Meech at minimum wage for the 23rd spot, or just run with 22.

Huds/Dats/Cleary

Franzen/Z/Holmstrom

Bertuzzi/Filppula/Eaves

Abdelkader/Helm/Mursak

Emmerton

Lidstrom/Rafalski

Kronwall/Stuart

Ehrhoff/Pitkanen

Kindl

Howard

Osgood

After next year, Kronner, Raffi, and Stuart all go UFA. Lidstrom also, if he stays after this season. Rafalski will probably retire, and likely Lidstrom if he is still around at that point. Kronwall will probably be retained, and Stuart is questionable depending on what other defensemen are on the team, what's going on with Ericsson/Kindl/Smith/etc. So over the next two to three seasons we're seeing a complete turnover defensively.

1-Emmerton's contract is two-way.

2-Smith will be on the roster next season.

3-Ozzie's so done.

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This leaves one roster spot and probably around $4m-$5m in cap space. This could tack on a solid second line forward or a good defenseman. Perhaps instead of Lidstrom/Pitkanen/Ericsson the Wings can go Lidstrom/Pitkanen/Ehrhoff with that kind of cap space change? Lidstrom/Ehrhoff/Kronwall/Pitkanen/Rafalski/Stuart is a downright scary top-six. Kindl stays on as the seventh guy.

Then you keep a versatile guy like Meech at minimum wage for the 23rd spot, or just run with 22.

Huds/Dats/Cleary

Franzen/Z/Holmstrom

Bertuzzi/Filppula/Eaves

Abdelkader/Helm/Mursak

Emmerton

Lidstrom/Rafalski

Kronwall/Stuart

Ehrhoff/Pitkanen

Kindl

Howard

Osgood

Uh.....ya, but who is gonna clear the front of the net?

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Good post. I like the idea of getting Laich, but I can't imagine the Caps letting him go. He's their true leader. I like the trades you have, but no way would the Blues give us Stewart and Bogosian isn't going anywhere. Lose Hudler, Kindl, and Bertuzzi? Yes. Lose Kronwall? No. I've been saying since last year that we need to start looking to rebuild the defense and not really because of performance either, but simply because they're not going to be around forever. Lidstrom has maybe another year left and Rafalski will be gone after next year. I think Kronwall is good enough to be on the top pair, but not Stuart and our 5th and 6th defenseman are barely good enough to hold those spots. The strength of this team needs to be the defensemen and I feel like Holland has been paying maybe too much attention to the forwards situation and needs to put the focus back on what drives this team the most.

Yes i agree with what you said. My only point about having to trade one of the core for younger players, and or picks is that most of our core like rafs, lids, homer wont and or cant be traded or have no trade value. If we were to swing a deal for part of the older core(i think kronner is a bargain and a very good defensemen and i would gladly trade others out of the core if i could) is because he does have value, and could be replaced via free agency, or close there too. All the other older core have ntc or nmc or no value. Its something you don't want to do, but you cant watch all our top core players walk into the sunset and get nothing out of them. That was all.

Yes the blues wouldn't likely let Stewart go but my point is a player like him (some size and skill-size we need) is important to us.

I thought Zack Bogosian was on the block during the season, as the were multiple articles mentioning this. Detroit was rumored, and the package rumored was Huds Kindl and a first. I said "Hudler + Kindl + ~2nd(2011)=Bogosian (might have to add a pick or prospect to make it work)". Now my idea is less then what the middle season rumor was but both hudler and kindl raised their values towards the end of the season imo. I also said "might have to add a pick or prospect to make it work" as its hard to guage players true values, all folks like us can do is knowledgeably speculate, and it could take more then i thought to get it done. I don't think Bogo is a #1 defensemen in the making, and as a former top pick he is overated by some because of his draft position, but he does have potential and he was in my post penciled in as our bottom pairing guy till more spots open in the 2012-2013 season and when he has improved after another year. Young guys need time to develop look at JVR even last year was rumored to be on the block and was a bit of a disappointment and the asking price then wont be even close to what it would be now as he blossomed into a good player. I don't see him being worse then our bottom pairing guys this season. I acknowledge he has a ways to go as a player. Yes I agree the strength of our team needs to be the defensemen like you said, and having what I mentioned as Bogo and Smid on the bottom pairing is an improvement on what we had this season in that spot. Those two have size and the ability to clear the crease and be physical, more so then Salei and Erricson. Thanks for a well thought out post.

Edited by Probie

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Wow. This team isn't done yet. They have to make a fundamental change, though. When Rafalski and Ericsson are on the ice, the team has to have Datsyuk or Zetterberg on the ice.

Double shift Datsyuk and Zetterberg and make sure that Ericsson (Pylon) and Rafalski (*****) have some support from a top notch defensive forward. Then they should be able to climb back into this.

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@OP: Hahahahaha. Did you learn your GM skills by playing NHL 11? Or perhaps Eastside Hockey Manager?

Also, I'd like to see how much your tone changes if the Wings win this series.

Hey Crymson why don't you try reading what people say before being a dick.

Also, I'd like to see how much your tone changes if the Wings win this series.Also,

This is what I wrote dude [in bold]:

"Ok folks, I'm not one to panic and say the sky is falling, nor am I one to be negative when things get bumpy. So don't flame me. I have some honest suggestions on ways to improve the team after watching them win 3 years ago and see what they need three years later. I have been watching them for about 21 years."

Notice how it doesnt focus on the first two games against the sharks. Even if we end up beating the sharks, our weaknesses that I identified in my post, have already been exposed not only in this series but in others as well. We have a weakness in size and the ability to win puck battles and i merely said we should address it. Even if you win, a team should always try to get better, and that starts with the things that is the biggest glaring weakness. My tone will remain the same.

@OP: Hahahahaha. Did you learn your GM skills by playing NHL 11? Or perhaps Eastside Hockey Manager?

I don't have time for video games bro and I don't even know what eastside Hockey manager is man. Lets READ what I said about Trades:

Of course a prospect or two and a few picks could be included in these trades mentioned below to make their values accurate, as its hard for me to judge accurate trade value, people are always ready to pounce and start flaming so hold off.

and I also wrote…

I mentioned those trades would most likely need tweaking for them to work. These are not the only players that would help our club in the areas I mentioned we needed help in. There are lots of other options.

These two things should have been read first…..

Lets look at what i wrote about the trades and what is written in the brackets:

"Hudler + Kindl + ~2nd(2011)=Bogosian (might have to add a pick or prospect to make it work)

Notice how it says "might have to add prospect or pick to make it work”? Notice how it says "~" which means "approximate". This means potentially more, maybe a second AND a third for example.

*Nyquist + flip + pick(if needed)=Chris Stewart (perhaps minor tweaking to make the trade work). yes i like Nyquist too but you have to give to get.

A pick means "a" pick, and can involve what ever pick that it needs to be to make the trade work. "IF"that were a 1st with flip and Nyquist who is a very good prospect, COULD it be good enough? Perhaps. Plus it says "(perhaps minor tweaking to make the trade work)". Enough said.

*prospect + ~2nd(2012)=L. Smid (guessing it gets done with minor tweaking) Again "a" prospect (which can very in quality to make the trade workable), plus "approximately" a 2nd(maybe a third on top of that) for Smid is not some rip off. Again lots of room for value in my wording.

*Prospect or pick= Chimera(or a Chimera like player, fast and strong, good in the corners, doesn't have to score lots, good on the pk)

Look at what Chimera has been traded for in the past, again this is not far fetched.

Edited by Probie

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Wow. This team isn't done yet. They have to make a fundamental change, though. When Rafalski and Ericsson are on the ice, the team has to have Datsyuk or Zetterberg on the ice.

Double shift Datsyuk and Zetterberg and make sure that Ericsson (Pylon) and Rafalski (*****) have some support from a top notch defensive forward. Then they should be able to climb back into this.

Oh yeah I'm not saying they are, I'm just pointing out obvious weaknesses(that have been apparent for a while) and ways to fix them in the offseason.

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I just like the fact that one of the main gripes the OP had was that the Wings are injury prone and then it goes on the suggest that Holland tries to sign Simon Gagne. Wow

I said we have more injuries then we should because we are unable to protect our players in which a tough guy would lesson. Yes Gagne is injury prone, he is on my radar, but if you look at my roster/lines i didn't add him. I would only be interested if he took (and will likely have to take) a lesser salary due to his injuries that makes it worth while. I'M WELL AWARE If HIS INJURY HISTORY. Thanks ;)

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I don't understand the want for Kronwall to go. He was one of our best players in the first round and logged more mins than Nick and has great offensive instinct and good first pass. To the OP, your point about it being bad that management entices players if they give them ntc, longer stay, etc. I think that strategy has actually worked. Anytime you can get a guy to sign for less it shows that he truly wants to play there and your management did a good job. See Hossa, Rafalski(he was integral in the 08 season), etc. It's been pretty well documented that players come to Detroit and sign for less to not only have a shot of winning a cup, but to allow more money to be spent on other players. I don't see how being a prime destination for free agents is a bad thing. Would you rather we be like Edmonton, where no on wants to sign? They have no ntc or long term deals for older players, that's really working out for them hu?

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Good god step off the ledge.... It's been 2 games! Pitkinan really Edmonton didn't want him.

What is it with people wanting a player just for fighting. Silliness with that stuff, Bogosian has potential but thats all. You want to get rid of Kronwall too. That makes perfect sense... Lets just get rid of the future number 1 who's already proven he can take Nicks spot. Good god the only one I can agree on is Laich. I wouldn't mind having Brooks Laich at all good physical forward would improve the penalty kill. I'm not saying your look at the team is stupid, at least you want to make some helpful changes. But this is extremely farfetched and too soon for this type post.

Just because Edmonton didn't want Pitkinan doesn't mean that much, there is a reason Edmonton has been picking near the top of the draft for a few years now, and improper management decisions has everything to do with it.

What is it with people wanting a player just for fighting.I don't want a boogard, i even said two names of guys that can play a semi regular shift without hurting the team too much, and they don't have to play 80 games either.

You want to get rid of Kronwall too.

No I dont want to get rid of Kronwall. read what I wrote to another poster:

"My only point about having to trade one of the core for younger players, and or picks is that most of our core like rafs, lids, homer wont and or cant be traded or have no trade value. If we were to swing a deal for part of the older core(i think kronner is a bargain and a very good defensemen and i would gladly trade others out of the core if i could) is because he does have value, and could be replaced via free agency, or close there too. All the other older core have ntc or nmc or no value. Its something you don't want to do, but you cant watch all our top core players walk into the sunset and get nothing out of them. That was all."

Lets just get rid of the future number 1 who's already proven he can take Nicks spot.I like Kronwall, but hes not a number one defenseman, maybe a number two, and he hasn't proven he can take nicks spot or he would have as Nick has slipped a bit. How many times has Kronwall won a Norris or been nominated for one? I disagree with you. Again, I like the guy hes good, and has a unique skillset.

Good god the only one I can agree on is Laich. Your sure? Cole is a good UFA pickup, as is Upshall. Cole is superior to a Miller or Homer, or Draper. Cole is coming off what many people consider his best season, and his stats this year place him 5th in scoring on our team, and hes bigger then average and skates fast and is physical. Something we need, and getting him for free through ufa makes sense. Upshall is both stronger, more physical and more talented then a guy like mIller or a guy like draper(now). Again getting him for free is not a bad thing.

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I don't understand the want for Kronwall to go. He was one of our best players in the first round and logged more mins than Nick and has great offensive instinct and good first pass. To the OP, your point about it being bad that management entices players if they give them ntc, longer stay, etc. I think that strategy has actually worked. Anytime you can get a guy to sign for less it shows that he truly wants to play there and your management did a good job. See Hossa, Rafalski(he was integral in the 08 season), etc. It's been pretty well documented that players come to Detroit and sign for less to not only have a shot of winning a cup, but to allow more money to be spent on other players. I don't see how being a prime destination for free agents is a bad thing. Would you rather we be like Edmonton, where no on wants to sign? They have no ntc or long term deals for older players, that's really working out for them hu?

As I already said I don't want Kronwall to go, please reread why i said what in the posts above.
To the OP, your point about it being bad that management entices players if they give them ntc, longer stay, etc. I think that strategy has actually worked. Anytime you can get a guy to sign for less it shows that he truly wants to play there and your management did a good job. See Hossa, Rafalski(he was integral in the 08 season), etc. It's been pretty well documented that players come to Detroit and sign for less to not only have a shot of winning a cup, but to allow more money to be spent on other players.

yes I agree to an extent however, how much has free agency really helped us as we are not that active in it. Hossa was one year, and rafs helped us for a bit no doubt. However all the NTC's do hurt our ability to keep guys motivated as they know they are not going anywhere. It also hurts our ability to move guys when they should be moved. Detroit could still be able to lure players in by the knowing that they treat their guys good, and you are right having deals makes more depth, but they should also xeercise to an extent that people that underperform do not have secure jobs all the time. there has to be the need for some change from time to time when problems are evident. Their has to be some understanding of this and more motivation. No one here can say motivation during the regular season was not on display as being a problem for this team. Its hard to make changes when you cant, and icing the same team year after year creates stagnation. That's my only point. Sure some of these deals were good a few years ago, but we are now locked into contracts like drapers, homers and rafs that could be hurting the team. You cant use a 6 million defensemen to kill penalties of even use him as a 2nd defensemen guy (as of last year) this year and next year? How does that help the team? Sure those contracts helped a bit at first, but not now. In all is it really a plus overall when you factor in how much it helped at first to what it hurts us now? What about when you factor in the fact that it does hurt motivation? Its a tough call. I'm just saying we could still offer deals for security but not absolutely, I think if we exercised the threat of change once in a while, but still kept the same mentality i don't think we would hurt ourselves too much when it comes to players playing for less and could help motivation up. Btw, were ARE NOT the only team to have players sign for less to make a team stronger because they like playing there. That goes on all the time.

Edited by Probie

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I said we have more injuries then we should because we are unable to protect our players in which a tough guy would lesson. Yes Gagne is injury prone, he is on my radar, but if you look at my roster/lines i didn't add him. I would only be interested if he took (and will likely have to take) a lesser salary due to his injuries that makes it worth while. I'M WELL AWARE If HIS INJURY HISTORY. Thanks ;)

When you complain about injuries on the current roster adding a guy with the significant injury problems that Gagne has had, no matter what kind of salary you could get him at, it would be a massive risk. Even if you got him for $1M and that affords you the ability to get other players if you are getting him you're getting him for a reason - he's supposed to fill a need. When he gets injured your need is exposed. If you feel the current roster already gets injured too often it just doesnt make sense to add another often injured player.

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The only thing I would change is the over ripen thing for prospects. You needs guys to have speed, passion, and something to prove now a days. Having a guy like Bert at this point in his career being the teams second liner is just wrong. Those type of players are past their prime, lost the fire to compete, and are just a shadow of what they use to be. Sure they are cheap for the salary cap but they lost that edge to win a cup.

Taking a chance on a rookie and give him NHL experience while we still have a strong core should start happening more often. Mursak should be getting some valuable NHL playoff experience right now and helping out. But he is watching while behind the depth charts of Miller, Mo, and Draper (Draper should be playing, he is still very competitive).

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It's gotten out of control because it's being treated like Fantasy hockey. That's what happens when ya post something like a major changes thread, your ideas get picked apart and challenged. Especially when you try to change the whole outlook of the team. People will question your crazy ideas like trading Kronwall or signing couple of guys that no one can see playing here.

If the thread would have started with we want to get younger without losing the core, many would have said lets grab Bogo and leave it at that. Then see how we can get younger but somehow magically acquiring Stewart, Cole, Pitkenan, Upshall, Bogasian, o ya and Carkner is extremely dilusional

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