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9-HoweFan

Grade Holland

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1- Probably one of the least exciting free agent class I've seen in my life. ( Brad Richards is good but why would we want him when we have Datsyuk and Zetterberg that both provide the same game that Richards does / both can center line 1 and 2 / both are more productive then Richards.

2- White & Commodore additions are a good gritty addition to this team + White will help this defensive corp out better then most of you guys imagine. (Wisnieksi would of been a good addition but never for that amount the he got paid by Colombus. Either then him there's was no one that I really wanted in the FA).

3- Holland addressed the need of backup goalie / defense.

4- Offense is steady / I would of loved to see him grab Eric Cole and get rid of Hudler but I'm still satisfied with the team we have.

5- We didn't overspend + we have 6 million left in the bank for a trade or even next year FA class :D.

6- We got a bit younger.

That's why I give him a B+

Edited by KrazyGangsta
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I still expect him to land another forward. We've got too much money just to sit on. Other contracts end next season so it's not like he has to save all of it.

I bet he'll spend around 5 million and leave the rest for wiggle room at the trade deadline.

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Something I don't quite understand.

Everyone talks about the "horrible season" Jiri Hudler had. I agree, he had a pretty bad stretch. But his season, as a whole, as not horrible.

Let me illustrate.

In his first 30 games, the games that people are really mad about, he scored 6 points. He then proceeded to score 31 points in 43 games.

What happens if Hudler had been half as productive in the first 30 as in the last 43? He scores 42 points. Not a huge difference, but it puts him ahead of Filppula in team scoring.

If he had been just as productive? He finishes with 53 points. That would rank behind only Z, Dats, and Franzen.

Yes, I know his production would have been 15 points had he scored at the same rate the entire season as he did over the first 30.

And I realize that these are hypothetical situations, but his ACTUAL production was 37 points. Statistically, that is a second-line scoring forward. Even with his struggles last season. So whether you consider him second-line or not, saying he had a horrible season simply isn't true.

So please, whether you like him or not... enough with the "horrible season" stuff, because it simply isn't true.

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So what is your grade for Holland and why?

That is what this thread is about

Something I don't quite understand.

Everyone talks about the "horrible season" Jiri Hudler had. I agree, he had a pretty bad stretch. But his season, as a whole, as not horrible.

Let me illustrate.

In his first 30 games, the games that people are really mad about, he scored 6 points. He then proceeded to score 31 points in 43 games.

What happens if Hudler had been half as productive in the first 30 as in the last 43? He scores 42 points. Not a huge difference, but it puts him ahead of Filppula in team scoring.

If he had been just as productive? He finishes with 53 points. That would rank behind only Z, Dats, and Franzen.

Yes, I know his production would have been 15 points had he scored at the same rate the entire season as he did over the first 30.

And I realize that these are hypothetical situations, but his ACTUAL production was 37 points. Statistically, that is a second-line scoring forward. Even with his struggles last season. So whether you consider him second-line or not, saying he had a horrible season simply isn't true.

So please, whether you like him or not... enough with the "horrible season" stuff, because it simply isn't true.

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Something I don't quite understand.

Everyone talks about the "horrible season" Jiri Hudler had. I agree, he had a pretty bad stretch. But his season, as a whole, as not horrible.

Let me illustrate.

In his first 30 games, the games that people are really mad about, he scored 6 points. He then proceeded to score 31 points in 43 games.

What happens if Hudler had been half as productive in the first 30 as in the last 43? He scores 42 points. Not a huge difference, but it puts him ahead of Filppula in team scoring.

If he had been just as productive? He finishes with 53 points. That would rank behind only Z, Dats, and Franzen.

Yes, I know his production would have been 15 points had he scored at the same rate the entire season as he did over the first 30.

And I realize that these are hypothetical situations, but his ACTUAL production was 37 points. Statistically, that is a second-line scoring forward. Even with his struggles last season. So whether you consider him second-line or not, saying he had a horrible season simply isn't true.

So please, whether you like him or not... enough with the "horrible season" stuff, because it simply isn't true.

I've defended Hudler frequently on this board and think he takes WAY too much slack and SOME of your points aren't too bad, but man, do you go overboard defending him... 37 points isn't a horrendous year, but for his caphit and role (second line player) he should have hit at least 50, especially when they were expecting 60+ from him...

Come clean... are you Jiri Hudler's mommy? his brother? one of his hookers who still thinks he'll Pretty Woman her one day? What gives?

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I'll give him an A...considering what he had to work with, he was shrewd in his spending. I'm very glad he signed Drew and Patrick, and if we had to lose Ozzie, at least he brought back a known quantity in Ty Conklin. I'm pretty satisfied with what's been done.

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Besides that I'm not happy because Holland didn't take advantage of the fact that every player in the NHL wants to play for the Red Wings and with less money they'd get elsewhere.

I don't have an opinion on what he should do next. Maybe trade Hudler for a scoring top six forward and buy out Ericsson.

My first guess is that your post was meant very facetiously.

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Personally, I think it's just OK. We all expected a Rafalski replacement, didn't come. I think Kronwall will get bumped up and groomed for taking the mantle when Nick is gone. Maybe White can handle the PP too, who knows? But I think this area still has some question marks. Their overall talent level went down with Rafalski retiring and I don't think the void was completely filled. And for me, filling the void was the MINIMUM...I would have liked to see the level brought above last year's team. Maybe the new defense couch will have an effect.

I felt they needed to go after a finisher, someone to benefit from the sweet setups Dats and Z can give a scoring winger. Did not do that. Kind of stood too pat for me. Personally I think that there are a few too many guys who don't go hard to the net and get the dirty hard scoring chances. Would have loved to see him pick up someone who brought that as well as a little sandpaper in his game. And not Franzen kind of sandpaper, real grit. Not facewashing people and skating away.

You might consider that very, very few players in those categories were available, and that all of them were woefully overpaid.

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I don't think I can really give him a grade. The premise of this off-season seems to be that we're waiting until next off-season, and are trying to hold out until then.

So if Holland does well next off-season: A+. He made small sacrifices short term, and still iced a competitive team so that we could become elite again in the future. And we won't be screwed if the cap does in fact go down.

If Holland fails next off-season: C-. He wasted a year and did nothing.

Obviously that's ridiculously unfair. He can't see into the future, and is acting right now on what he feels will give them the best long-term shot. But hockey is all about unrealistic expectations as we've seen all over these boards, and it's part of his job to figure out these problems.

I am quite nervous about next off-season though. I would have liked to get Lidstrom's replacement (i.e. a true number 1) to plug into Rafalski's spot, so he'd have a year to click, and then sign a #2 to replace Rafalski next off-season. Sadly, the options sucked. The way it stands (assuming Lidstrom retires), we're going to need a couple of big signings next year, because a player like White won't cut it once both Lidstrom and Rafalski are gone. And two such significant moves at once are hard to get right.

God I hope Lidstrom stays one more year after this.

Edited by Zetts

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Not a huge difference, but it puts him ahead of Filppula in team scoring.

17 of Hudler's points came from playing with Zetterberg or Datsyuk. (12 Datsyuk). And since you want to bring Filppula in to this, Filppula had 3 points playing with Datsyuk or Zetterberg. I wonder how Filppula would have done if he got the same icetime with Pav or Z.

Edited by Z and D for the C

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The only knock I have on Holland this offseason is the inability to move Hudler's contract (1 year left) and bring in a more competent top 6 forward to play with Dats or Z. This is something that I feel we don't necessarly need, but would put us over the top in terms of competitive edge. With 6+ million leftover in cap, it may still happen, but I am thinking Holland will bide his time until the trade deadline and bring in someone to help out offensively then.

Consider that perhaps nobody wanted Hudler at his cap hit. And how many top-six forwards actually hit the open market?

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B-

White - certainly not as good as raffi solid but not nearly as good offensively.

Commodore - i will say didnt like the signing at first but gotta be an upgrade from salei

Conklin - 750k great deal solid back up

Ericsson - meh but they still see potential in him so he can only improve. hopefully works out to be the best

Lids - Perfect signing no matter the numbers

Glad to keep most of the AHL guys

More grit, I say better defensively, and hopefully better PK. Time will only tell.

6.5 mil and huds to go what you got holland???

Edited by brett

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Can't give him an A or an F in any way.

I give him a C+. There is a lot of time left to make deals and I think we will be big spenders at the deadline if we go into this season with 6 mil to spend. This may be one of those seasons where we make a big splash in February and get exactly who is needed and are instantly the #1 choice for the Cup.

Having said that, I do NOT think that our offense is well stocked. We are still too top heavy a team and our top two lines are definitely going to have to handle a substantial amount of the offense, which makes the opposition's job easier with shutting down the team's scoring.

Defense was well addressed, but the overpayment of Ericsson is the only glaring error that I believe Holland committed. Even with the Wiz comments, if we had let E go after the theoretical amount of money he could have gotten, we would have easily had enough to sign a second tier defenseman like Wiz for the amount he believes he is worth, rather than sign E for the amount I think we all know he is not worth.

Conklin was a great, cheap pick-up and I remember feeling confident when he was in net in the Wings jersey.

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Grade: Incomplete.

the off-season isn't over yet and there is still the trade deadline to make moves. If the wings bring back the chalice next june I bet every grade that has been given to Kenny gets changed to an A+++++

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I'll give him a solid C.

He didn't do a bad job whatsoever - that said, he didn't make the team any better. And the only way I could justify giving anything higher then a C would have been if we were icing a better team this year.

- Big E deal wasn't great, but definitely not the end of the world.

- We didn't come close to replacing Rafalski.

- I would of liked to added some size to one of the bottom 6, which we didn't.

- Conklin was a good signing - I was sad to see him go in the first place.

- Ian White is OK - for the money we signed him for he is great, but will not come close to replacing Rafalski.

- Commodore was a good signing for the money - adds some grit, and has been around for a while in the league.

So yeah, I wouldn't say Holland did a bad job, I just don't think we are better. Just a year older.

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Given the terrible crop of options this off season. B. Would be an A if somehow we made some sort of trades but I'm glad he's not trading the farm away so I'm pretty happy. I think our back end got a lot harder to play against especially compared to last year. I think everyone's counting on some forwards to make some noise in the scoring department this year and the in future. :D:thumbup:

Edited by St. Michael (the Red Wing)

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B. White, Commodore and Conks for their price tags is a great deal. Re-signing Miller and Ericsson... what can I say. Hopefully he brings in a big winger with a scoring touch because right now that is all we lack. (Could use a big grinder type, but with the re-signed of Mr irrelevant there's no room in the bottom 6)

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3424789489_c3d4f88057.jpg

Brad Stuart isn't anything special either. His last healthy year, he had 20 points, 22 PIM and was -12. If we got somebody like that on July 1, wouldn't consider that a marquee signing.

He's a somewhat servicable second-pairing guy (like White in that way) but we still need someone to replace Rafalski's PP presence and 45-60 points a year - and White will never be that guy.

So, given what we had to replace I'd give Ken a solid C-plus.

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Can't really grade someone when none of us actually know what he really did. We only see the results. It's like trying to judge how a player played based only on the box score.

Based solely on the results I'd give this year a D. Judging on a curve based on my assumption of what the real options were, probably C+.

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he gets an A++ from me, there is nothing he could have done better! All things considered, Ericsson is NOT overpaid. He is an asset. He will need to play to his $3.5 million salary or risk being traded. Ericsson's return is better than a 9th overall (my guess is a 3rd), so that means Holland turned a 9th rounder into a 3rd rounder. How can you HATE that? You can't, that's just brilliant.

White is a bargain, and Commy64 adds more grit. He needs to bring his 'A' game or sit, Kindl is more than capable.

Holland signed one of the best backup goalies in the game in Conks.

Holland signed the BEST defensemen in the world. Lidstrom will have another brilliant year.

On top of all that, Holland still has $6 million to improve the team.,

Oh,and Hudler had a bad year, but he knows he is on the chopping block, he knows he needs to excel because this is a contract year. And while Hudler is a streaky player, I do believe he has a career year...which in turn, will be a bargain. And face it, there are reports that Holland did try moving Hudler for picks, but nobody wanted him. Holland isn't financially desperate to get rid of him, Wings still have $6 million to spend. He doesn't hamper the team.

Bottom line, Red Wings are a better team than last year. Plus Holland still has $6 million to play with!!

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B. White, Commodore and Conks for their price tags is a great deal. Re-signing Miller and Ericsson... what can I say. Hopefully he brings in a big winger with a scoring touch because right now that is all we lack. (Could use a big grinder type, but with the re-signed of Mr irrelevant there's no room in the bottom 6)

Which big winger with a scoring touch is available? Everyone is either locked up or was signed to a ridiculous contract. See Erik Cole for details on the latter.

Brad Stuart isn't anything special either. His last healthy year, he had 20 points, 22 PIM and was -12. If we got somebody like that on July 1, wouldn't consider that a marquee signing.

He's a somewhat servicable second-pairing guy (like White in that way) but we still need someone to replace Rafalski's PP presence and 45-60 points a year - and White will never be that guy.

So, given what we had to replace I'd give Ken a solid C-plus.

Alright. So I guess you'd rather have had him do one of the following:

1) Conjure a magical Rafalski-equivalent from out of this offseason's horrid UFA class.

2) Woefully overpay either Ehrhoff or Wizniewski (note that the latter apparently did not want to play for Detroit).

Sometimes things just aren't possible. Though we've become accustomed to having an excellent team every season, sometimes options don't present themselves.

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Which big winger with a scoring touch is available? Everyone is either locked up or was signed to a ridiculous contract. See Erik Cole for details on the latter.

I didn't want Cole anyways, especially not for the outrageous price Montreal paid. And to be honest, I haven't really checked lately. That's our only glaring need right now, and with the amount of space we have I think Kenny will address it this season. Probably not this summer, but around the middle of the season/deadline time when it's obvious which teams are in the hunt or out of it.

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17 of Hudler's points came from playing with Zetterberg or Datsyuk. (12 Datsyuk). And since you want to bring Filppula in to this, Filppula had 3 points playing with Datsyuk or Zetterberg. I wonder how Filppula would have done if he got the same icetime with Pav or Z.

Not to derail, but:

Considering Flip does not possess the shot nor offensive skills and awareness Hudler has, probably worse. He's an excellent defensive center with great puck control. But don't try to sell his offense because well, he doesn't have any. Or rather, doesn't have the offensive skill all the Flip Slappys lead everyone to believe.

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Which big winger with a scoring touch is available? Everyone is either locked up or was signed to a ridiculous contract. See Erik Cole for details on the latter.

Alright. So I guess you'd rather have had him do one of the following:

1) Conjure a magical Rafalski-equivalent from out of this offseason's horrid UFA class.

2) Woefully overpay either Ehrhoff or Wizniewski (note that the latter apparently did not want to play for Detroit).

Sometimes things just aren't possible. Though we've become accustomed to having an excellent team every season, sometimes options don't present themselves.

QFT

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Ericsson is NOT overpaid.

Wow, I never would have expected a guy with a giant smiling Ericsson face as his user pic to say this.

lol

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