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9-HoweFan

Grade Holland

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F- worst GM offseason ever

So what could he have done better?

1. Overpay Wiz/Ehrhoff and jeopardize the signing of Kronwall, Helm, and Lidstrom's replacement next year?

2. Overpay Cole/UFA and...(see #1)

3. Dump Hudler so we can have more cap space and no one to spend it on?

4. Make a trade and create a hole in our lineup by doing so?

I'd give him a B+. He pretty much kept the team the same, didn't get into any ridiculous contracts, and still has $6M for another move and to ensure that we have cap space to re-sign our FAs/Lids' replacement.

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Guest Crymson

F- worst GM offseason ever

trololol :D

Edited by Crymson

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But don't try to sell his offense because well, he doesn't have any.

Simply not true. Flip has the talent and ability to dominate games, we've seen it this past season and any rational person will tell you so. Flip's problem is motivation and lack of killer instinct. He may not have the shot Hudler has, but he's got everything else and then some.

And I won't say not to derail because if I really meant it I wouldn't post this. :D

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Simply not true. Flip has the talent and ability to dominate games, we've seen it this past season and any rational person will tell you so. Flip's problem is motivation and lack of killer instinct. He may not have the shot Hudler has, but he's got everything else and then some.

And I won't say not to derail because if I really meant it I wouldn't post this. :D

Flip isn't the playmaker Hudler is either. Jiri has a definite advantage in both of those areas. Hudler also goes to the net more readily. That said, Flip is the third best forward on the team, so it's not like he's a bad player. He's a different player; he's a good defensive center with an ok shot and good playmaking skills, who is a good fit on the second line and could potentially fill a first line role at some point in his career.

17 of Hudler's points came from playing with Zetterberg or Datsyuk. (12 Datsyuk). And since you want to bring Filppula in to this, Filppula had 3 points playing with Datsyuk or Zetterberg. I wonder how Filppula would have done if he got the same icetime with Pav or Z.

Hudler outscored Datsyuk during the time they played together. Does that mean that Datsyuk was riding Hudler?

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Flip isn't the playmaker Hudler is either. Jiri has a definite advantage in both of those areas. Hudler also goes to the net more readily. That said, Flip is the third best forward on the team, so it's not like he's a bad player. He's a different player; he's a good defensive center with an ok shot and good playmaking skills, who is a good fit on the second line and could potentially fill a first line role at some point in his career.

Hudler outscored Datsyuk during the time they played together. Does that mean that Datsyuk was riding Hudler?

This past season, Hudler looked so disinterested. He had that decent streak, yes, but in the playoffs he disappeared and when we needed him to put some offense up, he seemed apprehensive to shoot or go to the net. We need guys who will go to the tough areas and battle (and win)... Hudler hasn't proved well enough that he can do that (post KHL).

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This past season, Hudler looked so disinterested. He had that decent streak, yes, but in the playoffs he disappeared and when we needed him to put some offense up, he seemed apprehensive to shoot or go to the net. We need guys who will go to the tough areas and battle (and win)... Hudler hasn't proved well enough that he can do that (post KHL).

Decent streak? 31 points in 43 games is a decent streak? That's more than half the season. Hardly a "streak" of any kind. More like a recovery. Of course, while we're on the subject of streaky play... what about Johan Franzen? Down the stretch he was virtually invisible and in the playoffs he was invisible after being injured; before his injury he looked ok offensively but made some major defensive mistakes that cost the Wings.

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Guest Heaten

Wow, I never would have expected a guy with a giant smiling Ericsson face as his user pic to say this.

lol

What's even funnier is I got a -2 on my post, but nobody can even argue it. Lol!

Typical LGWs. The guy on the first page said it correctly, if Holland doesn't land all-star players and pay them half their realistic value, he did a poor job and should be fired....

To rebut on your {non} argument in regards to Ericsson, Holland gave a 9th rounder for him. He could easily be traded for a 3rd rounder (in todays market) if he doesn't exceed expectations. Holland is paying less than what he thinks Ericsson will become. See Datsuyk ($6 million) and Kronwall ($3.5 million) salaries. They both were overpaid when Holland re-signed them, now they are some of the best contracts in the NHL. (who are not RFA)

Holland and brass think Ericsson has loads of untapped potential (i.e. Datsyuk, Kronwall), while LGWs think he doesn't have anymore potential. Who do you think Vegas would bet on, LGWs analysis or Holland and brass analysis? They'll sway to the best hockey minds in the world and pick Holland and Co.

And... if in the unlikely event Ericsson doesn't meet expectations, Holland could easily flip that 9th rounder for a 3rd rounder (maybe more). So in that scenario, not only would Red Wings get a serviceable dman (who never put any salary restraints against the team since Holland has more cap space than he knows what to do with), but he can also magically turn a 9th round pick into a 3rd round pick.

I would flip 9th round picks for 3rd rounders any day of the week, only LGWs would complain and cry about it...

Keep the brilliant arguments coming folks... or if you don't have any hockey intelligence, just click the - / minus button and ignore the facts in my posts and keep on living in your fantasy and continue on playing your NHL 11.

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(EDIT: Trying to be "nicer" *sigh* Hudler's and Filppula's biggest defenders going at it...AGAIN...where we already know where you all stand)

As for Holland, I'd give a B+.

Like many here, I first raised an eyebrow at the amount Ericsson was re-signed for. But Heaten pretty much sums up my thoughts. Datsyuk and Krownall at the times of their contracts were still pretty unproven with tons of potential and many were miffed at those contracts at the time as well. They both have performed to those contracts now. Now I don't think Ericsson has that same potential amount (which is entirely subjective), but I do think he still has potential and room to improve, and didn't mind if he was re-signed. Again was surprised at the amount, but with so many teams overpaying for free agents, that made it a little easier pill to swallow.

Re-signed Eaves and Miller to cheap contracts, both good contributors given their roles. Definitely good things. I'm hoping this doesn't put Emmerton at risk of being lost at waivers for nothing, but I wanted to see both of them re-signed. I know others have felt differently esp. about Miller in regards which I certainly understand. You can make the argument that Miller is replacable but I like him. Both sides have a legitmate argument.

Signed Ian White to hopefully replace some of the offensive defenseman potential that Rafalski left in retirement. Signed Commodore to hopefully play physical and fill that 5th/6th d-man spot. All things considering, the defensive depth is pretty solid even if some are miffed at the Ericsson re-signing. Janik provides an experienced 7th d-man being a minor/NHL journeyman.

Signed MacDonald who has experience as both a 3rd and backup goaltender, and Conklin once again. Both familiar and comfortable with the Red Wings.

If somehow a goal scorer can still be signed realisitcally, I'd love for such a move but if not, I'm pretty content with the roster as is.

Edited by SouthernWingsFan

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No joke, I'll give Holland an A. With the type of money being thrown around and length of contracts, who seriously would have been a good fit in Detroit? I thought the Ericsson signing was realistic, and I like adding White and Commodore. Conks is a good signing too, and he brought back Eaves and Miller at lower that what I excepted.

The team is set and we still have almost $7 Million in cap room to make a major deal at the deadline. Also as I've been saying for a few weeks, we already have $29 Million cap room available for next season.

Kenny's a man with a plan.

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My first guess is that your post was meant very facetiously.

You might be on to something.

thanks for the really awesome after-school-special advice, but that's my legitimate opinion. i don't want osgood or draper on the team anymore. i'm not the only one.

have to give you +1 for the ridiculous suggestion that posting unpopular viewpoints on a messageboard = dying sad and alone. i like your style.

Christ almighty, can't you read? I already stated that you are entitled to your opinions. Many are agreeing with your opinions. I do agree with you sometimes. It's just that you are expressing your opinions in a prick way, purposedly trying to annoy people.

Edited by P. Marlowe

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What's even funnier is I got a -2 on my post, but nobody can even argue it. Lol!

Typical LGWs. The guy on the first page said it correctly, if Holland doesn't land all-star players and pay them half their realistic value, he did a poor job and should be fired....

To rebut on your {non} argument in regards to Ericsson, Holland gave a 9th rounder for him. He could easily be traded for a 3rd rounder (in todays market) if he doesn't exceed expectations. Holland is paying less than what he thinks Ericsson will become. See Datsuyk ($6 million) and Kronwall ($3.5 million) salaries. They both were overpaid when Holland re-signed them, now they are some of the best contracts in the NHL. (who are not RFA)

Holland and brass think Ericsson has loads of untapped potential (i.e. Datsyuk, Kronwall), while LGWs think he doesn't have anymore potential. Who do you think Vegas would bet on, LGWs analysis or Holland and brass analysis? They'll sway to the best hockey minds in the world and pick Holland and Co.

And... if in the unlikely event Ericsson doesn't meet expectations, Holland could easily flip that 9th rounder for a 3rd rounder (maybe more). So in that scenario, not only would Red Wings get a serviceable dman (who never put any salary restraints against the team since Holland has more cap space than he knows what to do with), but he can also magically turn a 9th round pick into a 3rd round pick.

I would flip 9th round picks for 3rd rounders any day of the week, only LGWs would complain and cry about it...

Keep the brilliant arguments coming folks... or if you don't have any hockey intelligence, just click the - / minus button and ignore the facts in my posts and keep on living in your fantasy and continue on playing your NHL 11.

Jonathan Ericsson is not even a top-four defenseman on the team, and with the addition of Commodore and Kindl having more experience, he is in real danger of losing a regular spot on the roster. Datsyuk was a first liner and established star when he signed his contract, Kronwall was the #3 defenseman on a team that would win the Stanley Cup the following season. Datsyuk was 29, Kronwall was 26. Ericsson is 27. Datsyuk improved a bit over where he was before signing. Kronwall moved into his prime and had more significant improvement. Ericsson is between the two in age range. Ericsson is not likely to improve considerably; small improvements in his game are what we should hope for and expect. He will hopefully develop over the next three years into a defenseman similar to what Lilja was for the Wings, but with better skating and puck skills. I think this is also part of the logic behind the Commodore signing; he will help Ericsson develop in that direction while Salei could not.

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I'll give him a C.

We didn't have many "big" free agents we needed to re-sign, other than Lidstrom, who wasn't going anywhere else and whose decision to return was solely his. Hence, Holland didn't keep any of our stars from leaving. Also, he overpaid Ericsson terribly, so I'm being generous in this paragraph when it comes to our free agent re-signings.

Likewise, he didn't make any significant enough moves with free agents to get a better grade. He merely added some depth.

We still need some more size in our bottom 6 forwards, and less injury plagued older players on our top 6. Those things haven't been addressed.

Edited by GMRwings1983

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Guest Heaten

Jonathan Ericsson is not even a top-four defenseman on the team, and with the addition of Commodore and Kindl having more experience, he is in real danger of losing a regular spot on the roster. Datsyuk was a first liner and established star when he signed his contract, Kronwall was the #3 defenseman on a team that would win the Stanley Cup the following season. Datsyuk was 29, Kronwall was 26. Ericsson is 27. Datsyuk improved a bit over where he was before signing. Kronwall moved into his prime and had more significant improvement. Ericsson is between the two in age range. Ericsson is not likely to improve considerably; small improvements in his game are what we should hope for and expect. He will hopefully develop over the next three years into a defenseman similar to what Lilja was for the Wings, but with better skating and puck skills. I think this is also part of the logic behind the Commodore signing; he will help Ericsson develop in that direction while Salei could not.

Your argument is more of a "hindsight is always 20/20" thing. The point is, people were complaining about both contracts; (Datsyuk and Kronwall) on LGWs. I would argue that Ericsson was the only only player that showed up in the 2009 SCF game #7 as he scored the only goal for Detroit. Ericsson also was the 2nd best in the +/- among defensemen last season. Lastly, $.3.5 million today is like $2 million in 2007 and Kronwall scored a $3 million contract in '08.

My original point is like Datsyuk and Kronwall, Ericsson's contract looks high right now, but it will be looked back as a bargain in the same hindsight is 20/20 that you are using for Datsyuk and Kronwall today... Worse case scenario, in the unlikely event that Ericsson doesn't make the expected leap, Holland can flip him for a 3rd rounder. So what does Holland lose? Nothing. What does Holland gain? 9th rounder traded for a 3rd rounder. That is called an asset and profit. Especially since Ericsson's contract isn't even hampering the team's salary cap.

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My grade for Holland on this off-season so far? C, maybe C-. Based largely on this: He said after the playoffs that the Wings "need to get better". (Sorry, I don't have a source or a direct quote, but I think most of you remember him saying that after losing to San Jose again.) Has this team gotten better? I say NO.

The only change at forward is Conner for Draper. Conner may not make tbe big club, so it could be Mursak or Emmerton instead. You lose a little in intangibles with Draper's expected departure (faceoffs, experience) but you do get younger. Unfortunately Mursak and Emmerton have very little experience in the NHL, but they haven't been able to bump anyone out of a spot in the lineup. Whether or not they're NHL players remains to be seen. I do like Eaves and Miller returning, both contracts are good too. No moves have been made to improve the top 2 lines, but there weren't a lot of players available. Nobody seemed to want what the Wings had to offer in a trade. So for now we're the exact same as last year up front.

Losing Rafalski apparently was a surprise (I had heard a rumor from an insider in April or May that he'd be done) and he was not truly replaced. White is nowhere near similar to Rafalski, but he is a defensive upgrade, so that's good. Re-signing Lidstrom was an absolute no-brainer and required zero effort on Holland's part, so I'm not going to gush over how great of a job he did bringing Nick back. As was already said, the choice was Lidstrom's. I was honestly pissed to see Ericsson re-signed, especially at that price. I don't think he's good at all and I think they'll regret that deal. Maybe I'll be wrong though. Commodore's a nice replacement for Salei. Kindl needs to see more time or his development will stall or regress, and I hope there's a way to get Smith in a dozen or so games with decent icetime in all situations (15-18 minutes?) After losing Rafalski, I was disappointed to see the Wings do nothing while impending free agents' rights were dealt before July 1. Yes, some of the contracts are bloated. So was the salary cap this year with the NBC/VS TV deal and the continued strength of the Canadian dollar. If Ericsson's a "value" at his money, then most of the free agents were equal values at their deals. IMO. Overall, the Wings will lose some offense from the back end, but they'll be better in their own zone, which could pick up 5 or 6 points over the course of the year. Less mistakes, less blown coverages, less turnovers... all would be nice to see.

Goaltending, Conklin's a decent backup and it really was time for Osgood to move on. I'm not sure who was Holland's first choice though... notice it was left up to Osgood to "tell Holland he couldn't guarantee he'd stay healthy" this season. So did Holland tell Ozzie he'd re-sign him if he wanted to come back, or did Holland let it seem like Osgood went out on his own terms? I can honestly see both happening. Either way, we can look at it as a noble move by one of the parties involved.

I was disappointed with the lack of activity in the days leading up to, and the first week or so of free agency. The grade can go up if a trade or moderately significant signing is pulled off... but I stand by my C/C-.

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I'd give a B. Holland obviously knows the Defense needed a lot of help, however he overpaid Ericsson by offering him a contract in the 1st place. But White is a good replacement for Raffy (especially when he was declining). I also liked Commedore so getting him for cheap and as a utility I really think is a good move. Conklin liked it here, the team is familiar with him and last time he was here he played great.

Plus I'm happy to have the cap space. I would however like most like to see him bring in a bruiser, but it's not a huge deal for me. I just didn't like that Datsyuk/Howard were our enforcers, how the f*** you let someone take shots at either of those 2 and not go ape s*** is beyond me.

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B-

He had some good signings, and didn't make any HUGE missteps, but the Ericsson deal was a huge overpayment. And he could have been more aggressive with regards to the backup goalie situation.

And Hudler is still on the team.

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He was conservative.

It would be unfair to judge him considering he's still got 6 million? left of cap room. It all depends on what he does with that so far I'll give him a B, but depending on what else he does it can go to an F quick and A+.

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Its kind of tough to grade him on this off season. He had money to spend, but there wasn't really anything out there and what was out there got overpaid. The Ericsson signing I'm not wild about, nor the Commodore one either, but White and Conklin were solid acquisitions and I think the goal of this off season was to not overpay for mediocre talent with a better UFA class coming up next season. I'd have to give him a B-. The resigning of Ericsson is risky as their betting on him reaching his potential very soon and I'm not thrilled about Commodore. I would much rather have a more proven defenseman for a year like McCabe or Hannan.

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My whole thing is this...I see other GM's stealing players like Burns or Heatley and I know Kenny has the skills to pull one of these off...That's why I am a little frustrated to see those other players going elsewhere instead of here. I know everyone can't come here, but...It's not just UFA's, there are trades that can be made. Let go of a few of those precious draft picks. Gotta think outside the box and go after the players that fit the needs of your team. The other GM's proved it.

Edited by AtomicPunk

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Maybe in your mind, but clearly that is not true. Wiz may be a loudmouth, but you can bet there are a lot of other players feel like he does too, they just aren't out there putting their foot in their mouth making public statements about it.

Fact is, whenther we like to beleive it or not, a lot of players play for the sole reasone of the money, and would not sign with Detroit, because they feel the same as Wiz. And some players just flat out don't like Detroit and wouldn't sign here period. I know, shocking, right?

As far as Kenny, I probably give him a B/B-

I completely agree that a lot of players probably think the same way about Detroit as Wisniewski. But to me it's those types of players who tend to overvalue themselves in terms of both role on the team and money. Personally, I wouldn't really want that type of player on my team if I were a GM. It speaks volumes when figuring out what these players really play for. I'm not saying you cant want money and to win the cup but when players determine their value based on the free agent class and then get overpaid well that's not true market value.

Its kind of tough to grade him on this off season. He had money to spend, but there wasn't really anything out there and what was out there got overpaid. The Ericsson signing I'm not wild about, nor the Commodore one either, but White and Conklin were solid acquisitions and I think the goal of this off season was to not overpay for mediocre talent with a better UFA class coming up next season. I'd have to give him a B-. The resigning of Ericsson is risky as their betting on him reaching his potential very soon and I'm not thrilled about Commodore. I would much rather have a more proven defenseman for a year like McCabe or Hannan.

Assuming McCabe or Hannan would come here for a year.

I think that Holland was pretty shrewd with his money because he knows how much it's going to cost him next summer to re-sign Kronwall and Stuart and find a replacement for Lidstrom (assuming he retires). It's not that he needs to save cash on this year's cap but it's that he has to save next season's cap hit for players he could have signed this summer. Meaning, the chances of any of these players coming here on one year deals are slim. If he signed an Ehroff or Wisniewski that's 4-6M of unavailable money/cap space next summer.

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I like what Holland has done as a whole here. He has kept cap space, has inked key players at key prices (Commy, White, Eaves, Miller, Conklin & I'll even say Ericsson although we all are on the fence a little) then he added a good core of minor guys as well (Joey Mac, Conner, Pyett, Exelby). When I look at the team on paper it looks real good, just jump onto a blueadams thread to see some lines for yourself.

What we need here now imo is a quality scorer. Continuing with the same non-handcuffing approach he has so far I wouldnt be apposed to inking Teemu for a 1 year deal, he's coming off a 31g and 49a season. I've never thought about him every coming here until this morning so who knows, but he can score so thats my starting point.

Edit: I give Holland an A as to the disasters he avoided by being cool hand luke in this years market. Good job Wings brass

Edited by 13dangledangle

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Which big winger with a scoring touch is available? Everyone is either locked up or was signed to a ridiculous contract. See Erik Cole for details on the latter.

Alright. So I guess you'd rather have had him do one of the following:

1) Conjure a magical Rafalski-equivalent from out of this offseason's horrid UFA class.

2) Woefully overpay either Ehrhoff or Wizniewski (note that the latter apparently did not want to play for Detroit).

Sometimes things just aren't possible. Though we've become accustomed to having an excellent team every season, sometimes options don't present themselves.

And sometimes you have to be aggressive or the opportunities present themselves to other teams.

We lost a very good offensive player on the blueline - one of the best in the last ten years - and we didn't replace him with anything but the hopes that the #6 from last year (Ericsson) gets better because he has a bigger contract and Ian White.

So we have the same/slightly worse team as/than last year, plus $6 million in cap room. I don't call that a very good off-season.

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And sometimes you have to be aggressive or the opportunities present themselves to other teams.

We lost a very good offensive player on the blueline - one of the best in the last ten years - and we didn't replace him with anything but the hopes that the #6 from last year (Ericsson) gets better because he has a bigger contract and Ian White.

So we have the same/slightly worse team as/than last year, plus $6 million in cap room. I don't call that a very good off-season.

What realistically would you do then to improve the team, that would be beneficial now, as well as the future of the team?

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