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DangleDangleBeach

Red Wings Sponsor?

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Honestly, I don't think many people would have been nearly upset if it had been Belle tire, or GM, or any other Detroit based business that brings pride. I think what bugs people is they went with a shady pyramid scheme company. Plus, the article posted earlier made a great point. Promoting a pyramid scheme into a severely economically depressed area, it's like throwing a wolf in with some sheep.

:thumbup:

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can't wait to see the logo at center ice this year when it has the "presented by Amway" logo underneath it! :puke:

Edited by LeftWinger

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Don't know if this is the same, might just be presenting the website, but it appears the Wings have had a presenting sponsor before in AT&T... Clarification on whether I've misinterpreted would be nice :)

http://redwings.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=587621 (Across the top where the Red Wings name and logo are).

Think its automatically a terrible idea, for the sole reason that the (seemingly) majority of the fans are in disgust of it, not simply an "it's a shame hockey has to have sponsors" but more in a "they're a dispicable company for such a respectable organisation to be associated with". That in itself should be enough for the Wings organisation to know they've made a mistake they cannot turn back on now.

55fan likes this

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I wonder if they will actually pay attention. The fans are reacting badly in the first week. It's a three year deal, if fans don't like it then, I'm hoping they'll either pull the plug at the end or even earlier. I would truly hope a organization like the Wings would know to listen to its fans.

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There's three things that make my blood boil like none other: Amway, Wal-Mart and Farmville. Seeing one of these things so closely associated with the Wings is profoundly bothersome. I've lost too many friends to their bulls*** and brainwashing. I plan on making a call to the Red Wings business offices to express my disapproval. As a fan, this is the last thing I want to see.

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Honestly, I don't think many people would have been nearly upset if it had been Belle tire, or GM, or any other Detroit based business that brings pride. I think what bugs people is they went with a shady pyramid scheme company. Plus, the article posted earlier made a great point. Promoting a pyramid scheme into a severely economically depressed area, it's like throwing a wolf in with some sheep.

YES!

I can tolerate sponsorship; I wouldn't mind seeing a Detroit company like Belle Tire or GM at all. But Amway?!? Absolutely not. That to me is flat out disgusting. Again, I've seen too many people lose friends and family, not to mention all of their money, over Amway's bulls*** pyramid scheme. And for the less informed, if you ever had people bug you about Quixstar, that's Amway too.

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A good watch about our proud new sponsor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuEfVbnCT2Q&feature=related

A good look at the founder of our proud new sponsor and just a little snap shot of how he has given back to our community

*Note, these numbers are only until 2005! Also, these are simple numbers. There is no media bias interjected in the report unlike the last post

Richard and Helen DeVos Foundation

126 Ottawa Avenue N.W., Suite 500

Grand Rapids, MI 49503

Media Transparency Profile

For years:

1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005

Total contributed: $ 222,782,656

Name Total

Grand Action Foundation 18,500,000

Gospel Communications International 12,754,725

Blodgett Butterworth Health Care Foundation 11,121,050

National Constitution Center 10,099,000

Grand Valley University Foundation 9,435,000

Grand Rapids Christian School Association 9,408,147

Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church 8,900,000

Calvin College 8,614,300

Hope College 7,550,000

Grand Rapids Symphony 6,991,152

Holland Home 6,553,000

Prison Fellowship Ministries 6,025,000

Ada Christian School 5,155,000

Rehoboth Christian School 3,636,000

Bethany Christian Services 3,450,000

Focus on the Family 3,250,000

University of Central Florida Foundation 3,000,000

Lee University 3,000,000

University of Central Florida 2,500,000

Spanish River Church 2,500,000

Grand Rapids Art Museum 2,442,000

Potter's House 2,250,000

Evangelism Explosion International 2,245,000

DeVos Children's Hospital Foundation 2,057,000

Luis Palau Evangelistic Association 2,000,000

Helen DeVos Children's Hospital Foundation 1,708,000

Heritage Foundation, The 1,700,000

Northwood University 1,691,500

Calvin Theological Seminary 1,650,000

Lake Worth Christian School 1,625,450

Partners for Christian Development 1,525,462

Christian Reformed World Relief Committee 1,426,000

Christian Reformed Church N.A. 1,401,000

Gospel Films 1,250,000

Direct Selling Education Foundation 1,250,000

Haggai Institute 1,240,000

YMCA of Boca Raton 1,152,000

Intercollegiate Studies Institute, Inc. 1,125,000

United Network for Organ Sharing 1,125,000

Boy Scouts of America - Gerald R. Ford Council 1,115,000

LaGrave Avenue Christian Reformed Church 1,081,853

Crystal Cathedral Ministries 1,080,000

United Way - Heart of Florida 1,070,000

Van Andel Institute 1,050,000

Mount Vernon Estate and Gardens 1,000,000

American Red Cross of Central Florida 1,000,000

Russian American Christian University 1,000,000

Palm Beach Atlantic University 1,000,000

Children's Scholarship Fund 930,000

Christ Memorial Reformed Church 925,000

Northern Michigan University 920,000

Partners Worldwide 825,000

Western Theological Seminary 810,000

Inner City Christian Federation 800,000

United Way - Heart of West Michigan 800,000

Frederik Meijer Gardens 780,700

Orlando Magic Youth Foundation 775,038

Prelude Worldwide Ministries 750,000

Lee College 750,000

CrossRoads Prison Ministries 730,000

Pine Rest Foundation 659,650

Media Research Center, Inc. 600,000

University of Michigan, Ann Arbor 591,000

Mel Trotter Ministries 560,000

Family of Faith Church 555,000

Health Intervention Services 550,000

Caring House Project Foundation 500,000

Keystone Community Church 500,000

Mount Vernon Ladies Association of the Union 500,000

Mississippi Hurricane Recovery Fund 500,000

Friends of the Americas 480,000

Davenport University 475,000

American Symphony Orchestra League 475,000

Florida Sunshine Pops, Inc. 450,000

Christian Counseling Center 437,500

Ligonier Ministries 425,000

International Society for Ocean Monitoring and Research 410,000

Hope Network 404,720

Michigan Family Forum 385,000

Hope Network Foundation 377,174

Right to Life of Michigan Educational Fund 375,000

Primary Focus 350,000

Fort Lauderdale Christian School 350,000

Raymond F. Kravis Center for the Performing Arts, Inc. 334,975

American Heart Association - Michigan Affiliate, Inc. 325,000

Pregnancy Resource Center 325,000

Baxter Community Center 320,000

Junior Achievement of the Michigan Great Lakes, Inc. 310,500

Florida Philharmonic Orchestra 305,000

Salvation Army, Palm Beach County 300,000

International Aid 300,000

Hope Pregnancy Centers of Broward 300,000

West Michigan Christian Foundation 298,512

National Organization on Disability 275,000

Worldwide Christian Schools 270,000

Kent County Parks Foundation 269,700

YMCA of South Palm Beach County 255,000

Millennium Park Project 250,000

Ukrainian Center for Christian Cooperation 250,000

Rotary Club of Grand Rapids 250,000

Boy Scouts of America - Gulf Stream Council, Inc. 250,000

Public Museum Foundation of Grand Rapids 237,500

Bethesda Hospital Foundation 230,000

Christian Reformed World Missions 230,000

Madison Square Christian Reformed Church 215,300

Indian Trails Camp 215,000

Insight for Living 210,000

St. Petersburg Theological Seminary Foundation 200,000

St. Cecilia Music Society 195,000

Education Freedom Fund 182,500

Federalist Society for Law and Public Policy Studies 180,000

VineBranch, Inc. 178,500

Gift of Life Foundation 175,000

Youth for Christ - Grand Rapids Area 175,000

Vantage Point Forum, Inc. 172,500

American Cancer Society - Great Lakes Division 170,000

Christian Learning Center 170,000

Clebe McClary Evangelistic Association 170,000

Campus Crusade for Christ 163,500

Bible League 162,634

Music Mission Kiev, Inc. 161,000

Wedgwood Christian Youth & Family Services 155,000

Russell Kirk Center for Cultural Renewal, The 150,000

Council for National Policy 150,000

Lumiere Medical Ministries, Inc. 150,000

House of Hope 150,000

Christian Reformed Home Missions 150,000

Saint Mary's Mercy Medical Center 150,000

West Michigan Center for Arts & Technology 150,000

Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame 150,000

Teach Michigan Education Fund 149,990

Grand Rapids Youth Commonwealth, Inc. 145,000

City Vision, Inc. 145,000

Alliance Defense Fund, Inc. 130,000

Grand Valley State University 129,000

Urban Youth Workers Institute 125,000

American Heart Association - Florida Affiliate, Inc. 120,000

Horatio Alger Association 120,000

Broadway Theatre Guild 120,000

Zuni Christian Mission School 120,000

Boys and Girls Club of Greater Holland 118,500

Grandville Avenue Arts and Humanities, Inc. 115,000

U.S. ENGLISH Foundation 113,000

Upledger Foundation 112,600

Young Life Greater Grand Rapids 110,000

Salvation Army 110,000

U.S. Sailing Foundation 110,000

Davenport University Foundation 105,000

Interlochen Center for the Arts 104,500

Affordable Medicines for Africa 102,000

Grand Rapids Baptist Schools 101,000

Ferguson Heartside Community Resource Center 100,000

Acton Institute For The Study of Religion and Liberty 100,000

Young Life - National Office 100,000

Michigan Military Air Land and Sea Museum 100,000

Crossroads Christian Communications 100,000

Life Net 21 100,000

Connect Michigan Alliance 100,000

Florida School Choice Fund, Inc. 100,000

Fuller Theological Seminary 100,000

Partnership for Learning 100,000

Geneva Camp & Retreat Center 100,000

Fringe Communications 100,000

Flannel 100,000

Hope Multinational Christian Fellowship 100,000

Grand Rapids Student Advancement Foundation 90,000

Mackinac Center for Public Policy 90,000

Opera Grand Rapids 81,000

YMCA Grand Rapids Metropolitan 80,000

Operation Smile 80,000

North American Choral Company 80,000

West Michigan Strategic Alliance 77,000

Grand Rapids Griffins Youth Foundation 75,000

Pine Rest Christian Mental Health Services 75,000

Grand Rapids Ballet 75,000

Transplants Recipients International Organization 75,000

Leadership Institute 75,000

Faith, Inc. 70,000

Young Dads, Inc. 70,000

Foundation for Traditional Values 65,000

American Red Cross - Kent County Chapter 65,000

Rutherford Institute 65,000

International Society of Palm Beach, Inc. 65,000

Council of Michigan Foundations 60,000

Equipping Ministries International, Inc. 60,000

National Right to Read Foundation 60,000

CLC Network (Christian Learning Center) 60,000

American Red Cross - Palm Beach County Chapter 60,000

Visions Teen Parent Foundation, Inc. 60,000

Join Our Youth, Inc. 60,000

Lighthouse Family Center 60,000

Words of HOPE 55,000

Worldwide Lab Improvement, Inc. 55,000

Traditional Values Coalition 54,276

Hospice of Michigan in Grand Rapids 53,000

In The Image 52,500

Pathfinder Resources 52,500

People for People, Inc. 51,000

Alliance for Children Everywhere 50,000

American Red Cross 50,000

Of the People Foundation 50,000

Holland Rescue Mission 50,000

Salvation Army-Grand Rapids 50,000

National Right to Life Educational Trust Fund 50,000

His Caring Place 50,000

Community Defense Counsel 50,000

Hispanic Center of Western Michigan 50,000

Nueva Esperanza, Inc. 50,000

En-Gedi Resource Center, Inc. 50,000

Children First America (Bentonville, AR) 50,000

Ave Maria School of Law 50,000

First Presbyterian Church 50,000

Alliance for School Choice, Inc. 50,000

Chaplain Services, Inc. 47,500

Joy of Music 46,000

Grand Rapids Medical Education and Research Center for Health Professions 45,000

Make A Wish Foundation, Grand Rapids 45,000

American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research 40,000

Christian Schools International 40,000

Boys & Girls Club of Holland 40,000

Kids Hope USA 40,000

Aquinas College 40,000

Choices for Children 37,900

American Red Cross - West Central Michigan 35,000

Back to God Hour 35,000

High Frontier 35,000

John Stott Ministries 34,000

Kent County Literacy Council 32,500

Meet Grand Rapids 31,000

Foundation for the Advancement of Cardiac Therapies 30,000

United Way - Palm Beach County 30,000

Grand Rapids Children's Museum 30,000

Guideposts Publications 30,000

United Way - West Palm Beach 30,000

Building Block Inc. 30,000

New Hope Church 30,000

Zuni Christian Reformed Church 30,000

Noorthoek Academy 28,650

American Cancer Society - Palm Beach 27,500

Plan International USA 26,328

Visiting Nurse Association of West Michigan 25,200

Organ Transplant Fund, Inc. 25,000

Michigan's West Coast 25,000

Plymouth Rock Foundation 25,000

James Madison Foundation, The 25,000

Southeastern Legal Foundation, Inc. 25,000

School to Career Progressions 25,000

First Presbyterian Church (Harbor Springs, MI) 25,000

Second Harvest Gleaners Food Bank 25,000

Stephen's Children Foundation 25,000

Free Congress Research and Education Foundation, Inc. 25,000

Orlando Regional Healthcare Foundation 25,000

National Foundation for Transplants, Inc. 25,000

Cape Eleuthera Foundation 25,000

Catholic Social Services 25,000

Evergreen Commons 20,000

National Kidney Foundation of Michigan 20,000

Orlando Museum of Art, Inc. 20,000

Toys for Tots 20,000

International Urban Associates 20,000

Youth for Christ of Palm Beach County 20,000

Leukemia and Lymphoma Society 20,000

University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center 20,000

Home Repair Services of Kent County 20,000

Christian Foundation Center of America 20,000

Shepherds of Independence 20,000

Roosevelt Park Ministries 19,000

Children's Educational Opportunity (CEO) Foundation America 15,000

National Kidney Foundation of Florida, Inc. 15,000

Chamber Choir of Grand Rapids 15,000

Grand Rapids Area Medical Education & Research Center for Health Professions 15,000

Transplantation Society of Michigan 15,000

Restorers, Inc. 15,000

Homecor 14,000

First United Methodist Church (Grand Rapids, MI) 13,600

Christ's Community Christian Church 12,500

Arthritis Foundation, West Michigan Region 12,000

WXEL - Barry Telecommunications, Inc. 11,000

Coalition for the Homeless of Central Florida 10,000

Gerald R. Ford Foundation 10,000

Association for Christian Foundations 10,000

Hospital Chaplaincy Service 10,000

Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, Inc. 10,000

Florida Hospital Foundation 10,000

National Kidney Foundation 10,000

Association of Baptists for World Evangelism, Inc. 10,000

Guiding Light Mission, Inc. 10,000

Florida House Washington DC, Inc. 10,000

Girl Scouts of Michigan Trails 10,000

J.C. & Frankie Watts Foundation, The 10,000

Holland Christian Schools 10,000

Alzheimer's Community Care 10,000

Michigan Community Blood Centers 10,000

University of Michigan Medical Center 10,000

Conservation International Foundation 10,000

Faith Baptist Bible College and Theological Seminary 10,000

Greater Houston Community Foundation 10,000

Billy Graham Evangelistic Association 10,000

Luke Society 8,000

Community Foundation of the Holland/Zeeland Area 7,500

Public Museum of Grand Rapids 7,500

Aspen Music Festival and School 7,500

Michigan Self Help for Hard of Hearing People 7,500

Patrons of the Arts in the Vatican Museums 7,000

Grand Rapids American Guild of Organists 7,000

Center for New Black Leadership 6,000

Cystic Fibrosis Foundation Headquarters 6,000

Degage Ministries 5,500

Northern Michigan Hospital Foundation 5,500

Capital Research Center 5,000

Corporation for Maintaining Editorial Diversity in America 5,000

Holland Christian Education Society 5,000

Ada Historical Society 5,000

Washington Campus, The 5,000

Grand Rapids Community Foundation 5,000

Reformed Bible College 5,000

Matthew 28 18-20 Charitable Trust 5,000

Lamont Christian School 5,000

FreedomWorks Foundation 5,000

Christian Performing Artists' Fellowship 5,000

Reformed Ecumenical Council 5,000

World Affairs Council of Western Michigan 5,000

Jewish National Fund 5,000

Family Life Center 5,000

Juvenile Diabetes Foundation International of Palm Beach 5,000

Latino Leadership Foundation 5,000

American Cancer Society - Great Lakes Division, Inc. 5,000

Martin Luther King Jr National Memorial Project 5,000

Alamo Resource Conservation and Development Area, Inc. 5,000

Bibles for Mexico 5,000

Blanton-Peale Institute 5,000

Cystic Fibrosis Foundation-Orlando Regional Office 5,000

Dwelling Place, The 5,000

Alzheimer's Association 5,000

Youth Orchestra of Palm Beach County, Inc. 5,000

Cornerstone Foundation 5,000

Place of Refuge 4,320

Rotary Foundation of Rotary International 4,000

Sons of Italy Foundation 3,500

Children's Home Society of Florida 2,500

Palm Beach Community College 2,500

Judicial Watch 2,500

Crooked Tree Arts Council, Inc. 2,000

Silent Observer 1,750

Grand Rapids Central High School 1,500

Close Up Foundation 1,300

Barnabas Ministries, Inc. 1,000

American Water Ski Association 1,000

Camp Roger 1,000

Lowell Area School 1,000

Western Michigan Teen Challenge 1,000

Little Traverse Conservancy 1,000

Dave Dravecky's Outreach of Hope 1,000

Tobacco Free Partners 1,000

Best Friends Foundation 1,000

Snowmass-Wildcat Firefighters Association 1,000

Leukemia and Lymphoma Society, Illinois Chapter 1,000

Enduring Freedom KIA Fund 1,000

Dream for Africa 1,000

Oviedo High School Band Booster Association, Inc. 1,000

Points of Light 1,000

Glen Lake Community Reformed Church 1,000

Westminster Academy 1,000

United Mitochondrial Disease Foundation 1,000

Dwelling Place of Grand Rapids 1,000

Kiwanis Foundation of Harbor Springs 1,000

Young America's Foundation-Santa Barbara 1,000

Spectrum Health 500

Forest Hills Central High School 500

Arizona Memorial Museum Association 500

Tri-Unity Christian School 500

Christ Child Society of Northern Michigan 500

Ocean Reef Chapel Foundation, Inc. 500

Mountain Christian Church 500

Ataxia Telanglectasia Children's Project, Inc. 500

Northwest Michigan Human Services Agency, Inc. 400

Women's Resource Center 200

Pacific Legal Foundation 100

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http://old.mediatransparency.org/recipientsoffunder.php?funderID=17

Those HEATHENS!!! Burn them at the stake!!

No seriously - they do a lot. Good for them... Good for them.

Uncle Danny likes this

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THIS is exactly the point.

People aren't upset about corporate sponsorship, as that was inevitable. People are upset because its Amway. Amway is a shady ******* pyramid scheme. They are scumbags that prey on the vulnerable.

And to the guy who keeps saying the Amway helped out their local community. So what? I know its an extreme example, but so did Pablo Escobar. He was considered a saint in his community and helped everyone out, built up neighborhoods, built schools, etc. But in the bigger scheme of things, he was a total monster. Much like Amway.

Right Right - I see what you did there. Pablo Escobar murdered innocent people and smuggled narcotics that leveled communities. Dick Devos started a business that sells cleaning products, nutritional products and cosmetics.

I bet....I bet you cry fowl when people used propoganda to compare Obama to Hitler for his socialistic opinions. But hey - this is all just for fun, right?

That I could tolerate more than those idiots trying to pull a Ponzi scheme.

And I don't care if it doesn't pay the bills by calling it Howe Arena. At least we could hold our heads high doing so. Anything else, and I'd want to hide in shame.

I don't want to be condescending because of your misunderstanding of what a ponzi scheme is. That is because I'm sure that 90% of the people on this forum don't know what a ponzi scheme is and how it compares to a pyramid scheme.

A ponzi scheme is, in recent current events, what Bernie Madoff went to jail for. To put it simply it is this:

You convince a bunch of people to give you $50 billion dollars to invest. You only give millions back shown as investment profits to those people - you keep the rest. Your initial investors believe that their original principal of $50 billion is still safe and secure but really, you've spent them on fancy things like big boats, houses and silk underwear.

You survive because your success keeps bringing in new investors with more and more money because even if an investor wants to take out all of their money out, you can survive the blow because others pay even more into the system.

So you see - it is dead wrong to even accuse Amway of being a ponzi scheme because they are completely unrelated.

I am trying to be nice to you, but please understand that when people do say the things you have said it does upset me because it clearly means that you have no basic understanding of the accusations you have made. You have only followed the lead of another ignorant person who blathers wreckless information into the dark.

I only debate on things that I know I know. All too often people make up their minds on a couple of headlines they have seen in passing with no real interest to look into unbiased reporting. It almost isn't their fault, though, as most people don't even know where to access unbiased reporting!

But I digress. Anyway, if you're also wondering how Amway exists as an accused pyramid scheme (I'm assuming that you already know that a pyramid scheme is illegal) it is because, by definition, they are also not a pyramid scheme. A pyramid scheme would require that people are paid to recruit others soley. (Amway people do recruit hard as hell which is where people draw comparisons to cult like groups) However, you do actually have to SELL PRODUCTS in order to ever make money from Amway. Also, Amway buys back excess inventory from its personal distributors.

So ya, I'm sure some people probably think that I must be a part of Amway or something by now. I will tell you this: I HAVE experienced about 3 or 4 meetings where I was trying to be recruited. I did not enjoy the experience and I have stayed far away ever since. However, I simply cannot deny the fact that, though this particular experience was not to my liking, it is NOT MY PLACE to judge others on the decisions that have apparently worked out for them. The company is obviously successful as I believe they are somewhere in the top 30 largest privately owned businesses according to Forbes. Have people invested in the business and came out as losers? With any venture that comes with risk, I bet there have been! But thats why America is America - it is a personal choice for someone to venture into this opportunity. And lest not forget, Amway does provide an opportunity. There will always be winners and losers. The Winners from Amway were probably losers somewhere else and they had to learn a little more about life before they reached success. The losers - my guess is they probably learned something along the way and will eventually find something that works for them. Either way, both groups of people will probably turn out just fine.

Have a fabulous day and a swell tomorrow!

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The problem is martyr, it's not Red Wings sponsored by the Devos family. It is Amway; a crooked company that has came under scrutiny by our government and has broken peoples lives based on false promises and ripping people off in cult like fashion.

The Devos family does great things for the state of Michigan but the Amway company does not deserve to be our sponsor plain and simple.

gcom007 and 55fan like this

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The problem is martyr, it's not Red Wings sponsored by the Devos family. It is Amway; a crooked company that has came under scrutiny by our government and has broken peoples lives based on false promises and ripping people off in cult like fashion.

The Devos family does great things for the state of Michigan but the Amway company does not deserve to be our sponsor plain and simple.

Well stated.

If they want to support charities with their money, more power to them. Some are ones I don't support; some are ones I do. Some are ones I've never heard of.

Either way, it's their money.

The company, on the other hand, uses high-pressure tactics and breaks its people down to get money from them.

To give you an example of what I'm talking about, let me tell you about a conversation between my former roommate and her mother, who was generally a very normal person.

I had asked her about the "system" she was following. I knew it was making her miserable and costing her money that she didn't have. She got upset (and she's usually calm and level-headed) and said she wasn't allowed to talk about it. Only her father and brother-in-law could.

So her father and mother came over- dad in a suit and tie, mom in a dress, and my roommate changed into a nice blouse and skirt. She had been cleaning all day. I felt underdressed, but I sat through the meeting. I was scared away by the pressure, but said I'd think about it because her dad just wouldn't take no for an answer.

Then her mother took her upstairs and ripped her a new ******* because she had ruined everything by not following the system. Their family would be in financial ruin because of her because she didn't follow the system. Her sister, who was her parents' sponsor would be angry with the parents for not getting me on board, and it was her fault for not following the system.

My roommate was crying and asking what she did wrong. Her mother was upset because she had worn a blouse and skirt, but the program called for a dress. The whole thing was her fault.

Later I tried to tell her that I had figured out why the system wouldn't work mathematically (which is the same reason a pyramid scheme wouldn't) and she told me I was not allowed to talk about anything from the meeting to her or anyone else or it would ruin her system and she would not be successful, nor would her family.

These were normal people, but they had been completely brainwashed.

When I hear Amway, I get a knot in my stomach and I get so angry I could just scream, even though this was almost 20 years ago.

This is why I don't want the Wings associated with them, especially not as a presenting sponsor.

As a regular sponsor, you just have your name on the boards or in the program or something. This is a full-blown commitment. The public statement said that the two have similar values (or goals, or whatever), which ties them together in ways I am not comfortable with.

Obviously I'm not going to renounce my fanship, but I am just not comfortable with this arrangement at all.

sleepwalker likes this

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I get what you're saying, but the premise of which you are labelling the company crooked is wrong.

And the company was started in Ada Michigan by Devos and Van Andel - so they are the two head representatives. Just like Illitch is the head rep for Little Caesars. Two HUGE michigan based companies that are gigantic philanthropists back to the State.

All I'm saying is - considering how much these individuals network circles cross, this sponsorship makes a ton of sense. People just need to relax.

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The problem is martyr, it's not Red Wings sponsored by the Devos family. It is Amway; a crooked company that has came under scrutiny by our government and has broken peoples lives based on false promises and ripping people off in cult like fashion.

The Devos family does great things for the state of Michigan but the Amway company does not deserve to be our sponsor plain and simple.

It's called Samway for a reason. It sucks people have been ripped off by them, but do your research. I had a "friend" that tried to get me to invest in Scamway, but the two or three brain cells I have said don't do it. It's not Scamways fault that people are idiots and lose their money.

As for them being our sponsor, I have no feelings one way or another. The Wings need money to spend money and Scamway is offering a lot of money.

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It's called Samway for a reason. It sucks people have been ripped off by them, but do your research. I had a "friend" that tried to get me to invest in Scamway, but the two or three brain cells I have said don't do it. It's not Scamways fault that people are idiots and lose their money.

As for them being our sponsor, I have no feelings one way or another. The Wings need money to spend money and Scamway is offering a lot of money.

If someone scammed you into killing someone it doesn't make it any less wrong if you didn't have the brain capacity to say no and walk away. Same principle; they are praying on the weak. Does that make it alright? f*** no.

The official vitamin of the DRW? So now we get to see the likes of Datsyuk or Zetta pushing commercials for pills? Hopefully they set up some helpful informational kiosks inside Joe Louis trying to recruit new members to their scheme. Only $20 to hear the first five minutes about how some schmo bought a yacht!

Edited by NvrFrgtRussian5

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Well stated.

If they want to support charities with their money, more power to them. Some are ones I don't support; some are ones I do. Some are ones I've never heard of.

Either way, it's their money.

The company, on the other hand, uses high-pressure tactics and breaks its people down to get money from them.

To give you an example of what I'm talking about, let me tell you about a conversation between my former roommate and her mother, who was generally a very normal person.

I had asked her about the "system" she was following. I knew it was making her miserable and costing her money that she didn't have. She got upset (and she's usually calm and level-headed) and said she wasn't allowed to talk about it. Only her father and brother-in-law could.

So her father and mother came over- dad in a suit and tie, mom in a dress, and my roommate changed into a nice blouse and skirt. She had been cleaning all day. I felt underdressed, but I sat through the meeting. I was scared away by the pressure, but said I'd think about it because her dad just wouldn't take no for an answer.

Then her mother took her upstairs and ripped her a new ******* because she had ruined everything by not following the system. Their family would be in financial ruin because of her because she didn't follow the system. Her sister, who was her parents' sponsor would be angry with the parents for not getting me on board, and it was her fault for not following the system.

My roommate was crying and asking what she did wrong. Her mother was upset because she had worn a blouse and skirt, but the program called for a dress. The whole thing was her fault.

Later I tried to tell her that I had figured out why the system wouldn't work mathematically (which is the same reason a pyramid scheme wouldn't) and she told me I was not allowed to talk about anything from the meeting to her or anyone else or it would ruin her system and she would not be successful, nor would her family.

These were normal people, but they had been completely brainwashed.

When I hear Amway, I get a knot in my stomach and I get so angry I could just scream, even though this was almost 20 years ago.

This is why I don't want the Wings associated with them, especially not as a presenting sponsor.

As a regular sponsor, you just have your name on the boards or in the program or something. This is a full-blown commitment. The public statement said that the two have similar values (or goals, or whatever), which ties them together in ways I am not comfortable with.

Obviously I'm not going to renounce my fanship, but I am just not comfortable with this arrangement at all.

I know multiple people that do Amway. Some have made a ton of money, some havent. I also know people that have gone through info meetings, such as myself.

Lets make one thing clear - your friends and her family are nut jobs. NOT the company. The company didn't yell at her for not wearing a dress. (I know there is no company rule about this, it was probably a personal rule laid out by the crazy family).

I would LOVE to see how you are so uniquely smart that you of all people were able to mathematically solve how this multi-billion dollar company has actually made no money for people. Because apparently, they were able to dupe EVERYONE ELSE in this world to help generate billions and billions of dollars. Have you submitted your mathematical equation to the newspapers? You too could be rich!

As I've said, I've been to the meetings multiple times and I agree - they aren't for me. But to say Amway is crooked because some INDEPENDENT proprietors do their job a little more high pressure than others makes you equally as nutty.

Sales is high pressure. I don't care if you're selling Amway, Cutco knives, cars, electronics or magazine subscriptions. In order to survive, you can't just walk away every time you hear the word no. Sorry if you're too weak to stick to your guns just because someone is persistent. Again, that's just sales. It isn't illegal nor should it be. We all have choices to make.

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Martyr...You seem to honestly beleive in Amway an support it 100%. Your choice, obviously.

BUT, that fact that you are literally the only person on this entire thread that feels that way has to tell you something. Every single person that has posted about this topic here is 100% against Amway sponsoring the Wings, and as pointed out multiple times, it has absolutely nothing to do with the Wings having corporate sponsership, but the fact that they chose Amway.

Amway is a scam pyramid sceme. That is an undisputed FACT. They are predatory scumbags. FACT.

The fact that they are now aligned with the most respected team in the NHL, if not one of the most respected teams in all professional sports, quite literally disgusts most of us to our very core. This is like making a deal with the devil...quite literally.

My Escobar analogy earlier in the thread that you hated and took offense to so much was 100% accurate, regardless of how you personally feel about it.

Its a deal with the devil. And the fact the the Wings are not even close to being in financial trouble makes it all the worse. This is Tom, money hungry scumbag f***, Wilsons baby. Almost all Detroit Red Wings fans absolutely HATE him for making this deal.

Edited by sleepwalker
gcom007 likes this

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My housemate is a die hard Bruins fan, and even she said this deal is an absolute suck job. She knows it's all Tom Wilson, and he deserves to rot in hell. He sold us down the river, and it's just sickening. We're not in need of money, so why did he sell his soul to these devils? I love my guys, but we've been sold down the river.

Can we formally protest this to someone in the higher ups?

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I am genuinely shocked that someone can defend this company and not be a part of it. The only times I have ever encountered it in the past is when one has someone in their life deeply involved in Amway that they can't bring themselves to criticize or when it's a former-Amwayer trying to justify their wasted time and money. Otherwise, it seems next to impossible to defend Amway.

I just do not understand at all how we can somehow justify Amway's sleazy business because the Devos family is charitable and from Michigan. I just don't care, because I know how they made their money!

And I don't care that they're not a pyramid scheme. Pyramid scheme. Multi-level marketing. All the same when it comes to what Amway does to people's lives. They were "bodysnatchers" when they were based on a pyramid scheme and they're "bodysnatchers" now that they're based on multi-level marketing.

I personally do not want to constantly be reminded of the many close friends that have had their lives devastated on so many levels by the disgusting cult of Amway while I watch the team I've loved since I can remember with the little bit of free time I have. Amway is literally one of the only words in this world that just instantly incites anger in me upon hearing the name.

I'm not trying to single anyone out here or be critical, but I don't think anyone who's defending Amway has really seen how ugly it can get.

I don't think they know people who have lost loads of money, countless friends and severed relationships with family.

I really do not believe that they've dealt with people in situations like these that I have unfortunately dealt with numerous times.

I don't think they know people who worked over 80 hours a week to make just enough money to buy their Amway/Quixstar products and books. All the while, bear in mind, these are at real jobs. They're not making any money at Amway. "Yet," they would say at best in acknowledging this simple fact. "I'm making an investment in my future because I want what's best for me and my family. You don't understand. You're ignorant and have no ambition." Heard variations on that too many times.

Worse though, I don't think any Amway defender has dealt with people who no longer will speak to their parents, siblings and friends because their new Amway family says to cut anyone or anything out of their life that questions or speaks negatively about Amway and their business. I've seen this way too many times, and it's just plain sad for all of those affected. It's like losing someone to a cult. No, it is losing someone to a cult.

And all the while usually the family in particular is just trying to help stop the blatantly-obvious financial bleeding that's taking place. They're just doing the simple math; tons of money going out, no money coming in, countless hours spent working. Simple stuff for most people; tougher for people trapped in a cult.

Again, I'm planning on calling and writing to the Red Wings to express my distaste. I would recommend that the many here, seemingly the vast majority, who are upset over this news do the same.

55fan and dobbles like this

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I think about the only thing that would be worse is if the Amway patches would be replaced by ones that said "Dianetics"! :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

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My friend and her family are not nut jobs. I have no idea when or if they got out because I lost contact after college, but I can tell you that 20 years ago, they were quite normal people.

Since you'd love to hear how I figured out that it wouldn't work out mathematically, I'll tell you. You buy from the people above you. They buy from the people above them. And so it goes on.

Do the math. Let's say that each person gets 10 people under them.

The top person has 10 people. Level 1=1 person. Level 2=10. Total=11.

Level 3 has 100 people. Grand total=111

Level 4 has 1000 people. Grand total=1111

Level 5 has 10,000 people. Grand total=11,111

Level 6 has 100,000 people. Grand total=111,111

Level 7 has 1,000,000 people. Grand total=1,111,111

Level 8 has 10,000,000 people. Grand total=11,111,111

Level 9 has 100,000,000 people. Grand total=111,111,111

We are now at the 9th level, and we have over a million people. There are 2 founders, so double that final grand total. We now have over 200 million people. This is approximately the adult population of the US.

The population of the world is roughly 6.9 billion. Most of these people are either children or are too poor to buy any of these products, or are part of a remote population who do not use these products.

Realistically, you might get a level 10 with 1 billion people in it, but they do not have enough people left on the planet to take it to a level 11. There just aren't 10 billion people on the planet.

And this is assuming that everyone contacted agrees to the system. As you have seen here, perhaps only 1 out of 10 (in this thread) would even consider it, and I'm counting Martyrme as the 1, despite the fact that he/she has rejected the offer.

So it ends one of two ways: Either the people on levels 8 and 9 can't make any money because there is no one to sell to, or we don't even get to those levels because the top people are gathering more than 10 people.

So even if everyone agrees to be involved, there are only levels 7 on up making any money at all, and 6 and 7 aren't making very much at all. Which means that out of the entire population, just over 10,000 are making a living at it, while the rest are spending or breaking even.

If you go with the 1 in 10 people in the population agreeing to go along with it, then you bottom out at level 7, so levels 6 and 7 are paying in, 4 and 5 are making a bit of money or breaking even, while levels 1-3 are making money. This is 111 people making money off of the rest, assuming that those people were content to stop at 10 people on their level. If they get more, that's just more people that can't be assimilated on the lower levels, and more money for the uppers.

It's a combination of simple math and human behaviour.

It can only profit the top, who are also profiting from the motivational materials that the underlings must buy if they are following the system. Some people buy into it. They really believe that if they buy more tapes and books that they will be millionaires, and if they haven't recruited large numbers of people that it is their fault and not the fact that there are simply not enough people to make the lower levels rich.

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These two crackpots who started this fiasco think they own the city of Grand Rapids. Their names are on everything in that town. DeVos also tried to run for governor, and got his ass kicked by Jennifer Granholm. He couldn't own everyone, thank God.

I'm with the one who said they would write a letter to protest this. I love my team, and I always will. The love for the Wings goes back almost 50 years (yes, I'm that old), longer than most marriages last. But this is too much.

vladdy16 and Majsheppard like this

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If someone scammed you into killing someone it doesn't make it any less wrong if you didn't have the brain capacity to say no and walk away. Same principle; they are praying on the weak. Does that make it alright? f*** no.

The official vitamin of the DRW? So now we get to see the likes of Datsyuk or Zetta pushing commercials for pills? Hopefully they set up some helpful informational kiosks inside Joe Louis trying to recruit new members to their scheme. Only $20 to hear the first five minutes about how some schmo bought a yacht!

Except, again, you'd have to be a real idiot to be scammed into killing someone. Same principle. It's like the stock market crashing and some investor saying, "Look, I have this great stock that won't fail". It'd take a real idiot to start buying stocks at that moment. I understand that Scamway is a shady organization, but business is business and if want the Wings to stay competitive, Illitch needs the unlimited funds that we all like him to have.

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Yahoo Article

And the jokes begin...

Detroit Red Wings Presented by Amway: Pavel Datsyuk has great hands, reports everyone ever connected with the NHL in any even remotely tangible way. I just wish more people would talk about how great he is. So little respect.
Gold Star Award

I would like to thank the Detroit Red Wings Presented by Amway for being presented by Amway. This will literally be funny forever.

Talk about embarrassing.

Edited by roboturner

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I know multiple people that do Amway. Some have made a ton of money, some havent. I also know people that have gone through info meetings, such as myself.

Lets make one thing clear - your friends and her family are nut jobs. NOT the company. The company didn't yell at her for not wearing a dress. (I know there is no company rule about this, it was probably a personal rule laid out by the crazy family).

I would LOVE to see how you are so uniquely smart that you of all people were able to mathematically solve how this multi-billion dollar company has actually made no money for people. Because apparently, they were able to dupe EVERYONE ELSE in this world to help generate billions and billions of dollars. Have you submitted your mathematical equation to the newspapers? You too could be rich!

As I've said, I've been to the meetings multiple times and I agree - they aren't for me. But to say Amway is crooked because some INDEPENDENT proprietors do their job a little more high pressure than others makes you equally as nutty.

Sales is high pressure. I don't care if you're selling Amway, Cutco knives, cars, electronics or magazine subscriptions. In order to survive, you can't just walk away every time you hear the word no. Sorry if you're too weak to stick to your guns just because someone is persistent. Again, that's just sales. It isn't illegal nor should it be. We all have choices to make.

Thank you, at least one person in this thread understands the concept of personal responsibility. I can't believe people are actually ignorant enough to neg your posts. The good thing about capitalism is that it has lifted countless millions out of poverty, the bad thing about capitalism is that if you make uninformed decisions you lose your money. But don't blame the person who made the uninformed decision, he/she is a victim of the system and doomed to poverty by pure bad luck/scheming by evil rich people :rolleyes:.

On topic, I hate the fact that we have a corporate sponsor, but that has nothing to with it being Amway, I just don't want to see our sweaters start to look like the hood of a NASCAR car.

martyrme19 likes this

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