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P. Marlowe

Ryan Miller's opinion on Milan Lucic

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Mixed feelings for sure, but here they are:

- Love Miller, but think goaltenders sometimes put themselves in situations where they should be considered a skater at least to some degree.

- This is not one of those situations, Miller cleared the puck, Lucic finished afterwards. A goalie is a goalie, these aren't new rules.

- Great to hear Miller react to the hit in a way other than it being 'unfortunate' or 'reckless', speak your mind. Love candid players.

- Hate Boston, like the way Lucic plays and would love him on the Wings, but he has the propensity for dumb, reckless plays like this.

- Immediately just outright hated the play because of the Boston homers. Seriously, worst in hockey by a wide margin.

- Looking forward to some sort of backlash, either on Lucic, Miller, or both, but there shouldn't be. Tape describing why it was dumb. Done.

The more I look at the hit, the more I don't like it. Now, in light of the injury to Miller, the league definitely needs to crack down and set a precedent quick. I'm guessing 3 games, hoping for 5, just 'cause I want to hear the Boston homers ***** and moan. "b-b-but we're SOOOO tough, its not our fault" :P

Edited by b.shanafan14

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The birth of a rivalry?

Lucic will likely get a few games. Outside of Cody McCormick, Buffalo is pretty soft. Gaustad doesn't fight much anymore. Kaleta is more of an agitator, but he'll fight from time to time.

With Miller's comments, there's no way the following Bruins/Sabres game goes without some kind of incident.

Well now think about the RED WINGS we are in the same situation, not Abi not Big Rig will dear to chalange guatlesluciano

Edited by redwashington2000

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Miller has to be faking the concussion, otherwise he should be kicked out of the league for being a piece of glass impersonating a human.

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Miller has to be faking the concussion, otherwise he should be kicked out of the league for being a piece of glass impersonating a human.

You are aware concussions can be had from the most minor of hits, right?

hooon and Zeowingsfan like this

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You are aware concussions can be had from the most minor of hits, right?

I am also aware that a simple headache can be considered a concussion according to NHL standards.

At any rate millers injury should have no bearing on a suspension, yet that seems to be the case.

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I am also aware that a simple headache can be considered a concussion according to NHL standards.

At any rate millers injury should have no bearing on a suspension, yet that seems to be the case.

It does irritate me that the result gets penalized more often than the actual action, but it is pretty similar to the way things are done in the real world.

I doubt Lucic will be suspended though. Maybe a fine, but not a suspension.

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Mike, tried to PM you (long apology msg :(), and msg you in BC.. I'm on your block list I think. :P

Yeah - just made the change to take you off...I needed to do it a long time ago...Sorry.

EDIT - and btw - it's me that needs to apologise to you...Those comments I made a few years ago regarding your personal life were way outta line, immature, downright nasty, and not cool on my part.

So Steve - I apologise for making them :blush:

Edited by F.Michael

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I'm the biggest supporter of physical, tough hockey, but how can anyone seriously defend that play?

Regardless of what we all think should be in the rules, the bottom line is its against the rules to hit a goalie in hockey. The grow up getting hit with pucks, not learning how to take a hit and their equipment is not designed to take a hit at all. Their helmets fall off from shots, so god knows what a 230 lb physical freak of nature like Lucic could do.

He blatantly hit him, threw his hands up and everything didnt even attempt to move.

I would love Lucic on Detroit but he is a huge meathead and this is a clear example.

100% agree. Goalie equipment isn't supposed to absorb hits. Lucic was probably pissed for not being able to handle an easy pass and took it out on Miller.

Gutless play.

Edited by Jocke
haroldsnepsts likes this

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Really? How would you describe that sort of play? I consider Lucic to be a goon-sized gutless scrub? Does the succession of overused adjectives offend you?

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While I totally agree that lucic is a piece of work I do think this play was handled well penalty wise. Miller came out of his crease to play the puck and I know goalie equipment isnt made for checks but when you leave yourself vulnerable like that you also leave yourself to getting run by people like lucic. On the other hand... I do agree that goalies get pampered too much but this isnt the case I could see if miller was out playing the puck and getting bumbed but lucic steamrolled him. You have to protect the goalie in this case and I think that should be handled by his teammates. Goon it up after something like that. I know they dont have a big enforcer on there team but im sure they got someone in the minors willing to get dirty. Bring him up next time they meet and let him run wild... Thats what I dont get when your gonna play a team like boston that you know is gonna play aggressive you have to prepare your roster for that so you can handled situations like this. Miller went out to play the puck and he got into a close race for the puck and in this case it was with lucic who felt it was close enough he run into miller, bad play, give him the penalty and let buffalo get him back later. Detroit didnt respond right away against the avs when draper got hit but whats the famous quote on march 26 1997... HOCKEY PLAYERS HAVE LONG MEMORIES!!

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Injuries should not have bearing on whether a clean play gets a penalty or a suspension (Kronwall on Havlat). However, in instances like this one, where a play is at the very least stupid and reckless, at its worst cheap and dirty, and considered by all to be a penalty both in the moment and afterwards, the goal of disciplinarians should be to determine the extent to which the player is penalized. More times than not they will decide (correctly) that, while the play was illegal, it was not of an apparent attempt to be 'dirty' or malicious.

In this case, however, the play was unnecessary, borderline cheap on a protected player (a goaltender), and moreover, a player whose talents and position as the franchise goaltender for his team, more than any in the league decide the success or failure of that teams season or beyond. Put it this way: Crosby received his concussion on two plays, one not yet penalized, the final one a seemingly harmless hit. Those were in the bounds of the rules on a skater used to taking hits. People called for suspensions post-injury on even the initial hit. He has been out for the better part of a whole season, and he only plays half to a third of each game.

Miller on the other hand was hit without reason to expect it, outside the bounds of the rules. He plays more than 99.9% of the league's players (even among goaltenders), sixty minutes minutes per game, 65-70 games a year. Concussions (and yes, the NHL's definition of concussions in particular) can happen subtly and linger for months. Lets say at the very least Miller misses 2-3 games with some lingering affects thereafter, that puts 4-6 points in jeopardy for the Sabres plus any diminished performance afterward. How many points separated the 6th best team in each conference from the 10th best team last season?

The Bruins can survive losing Lucic for even 10 games (though 3-5 is probably more appropriate) far better than the Sabres could losing Miller for 3. Set a precedent now, save the league in the long run. Stupid (cheap), unnecessary play ends in injury to a goaltender? Take a seat.

And not to use this as an argument against those who think there should be no suspension, or even those (shockingly enough) who think Miller should shoulder half or more of the blame, but if Howard left the crease, cleared a puck, and then afterwards was bulldozed by a goon like Lucic (completely avoidable), this board would be calling for blood. And Howard is a much sturdier guy the Ryan Miller (210lbs. vs. 175 lbs.).

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My thought is this... are goalies over-protected? Sure. BUT that is the standard & that is the way it is. EVERYONE knows this! So knowing full well that you can not take out a goalie like that, I have to side with Miller & Ruff and say that the Lucic hit was a bad hit. I think the ref's got it right, a 2 minute minor, that's all it should have been, end of story. Was Miller wrong to go off to the reporters about it? No way. It's good to hear someone speak their mind. It was good to see Lucic keep his elbow down, and he did not target the head. If it was a position player, it would have been an excellent open ice hit that made highlights all over the place, praising Lucic.

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My thought is this... are goalies over-protected? Sure. BUT that is the standard & that is the way it is. EVERYONE knows this! So knowing full well that you can not take out a goalie like that, I have to side with Miller & Ruff and say that the Lucic hit was a bad hit. I think the ref's got it right, a 2 minute minor, that's all it should have been, end of story. Was Miller wrong to go off to the reporters about it? No way. It's good to hear someone speak their mind. It was good to see Lucic keep his elbow down, and he did not target the head. If it was a position player, it would have been an excellent open ice hit that made highlights all over the place, praising Lucic.

Yeah, but it wasn't. If this was a skater we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.

P. Marlowe likes this

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Yeah - just made the change to take you off...I needed to do it a long time ago...Sorry.

EDIT - and btw - it's me that needs to apologise to you...Those comments I made a few years ago regarding your personal life were way outta line, immature, downright nasty, and not cool on my part.

So Steve - I apologise for making them :blush:

You still haven't apologized to me for what you said about Lilja.

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You still haven't apologized to me for what you said about Lilja.

About you being chained-up "gimp" style in Lilja's basement :ph34r:

In all seriousness - the comments I made in a general discussion thread towards Shoreline was a major douchebag move on my behalf, and was totally uncalled for.

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Its amazing how many folks in this thread either don't understand or refuse to acknowledge the rules regarding goalies in the NHL.

I can't believe anyone here is defending Lucic.

And claiming that Miller is faking it is one of the dumbest things I've ever read online, congrats.

Edited by hooon
P. Marlowe and Frozen-Man like this

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i love miller, but i'm glad lucic hit him. if you're going to leave the crease and play the puck, then i consider you a skater.

The thing is, the league doesn't.

Rule 69.4

A goalkeeper is not “fair game” just because he is outside the goal crease. The appropriate penalty should be assessed in every case where an attacking player makes unnecessary contact with the goalkeeper. However, incidental contact will be permitted when the goalkeeper is in the act of playing the puck outside his goal crease provided the attacking player has made a reasonable effort to avoid such unnecessary contact.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26480

Lucic made no effort to avoid contact with Miller and pretty clearly threw his body into him.

And if you love Miller, I'm guessing you're not too happy about the concussion he has as a result of the illegal hit. And it's his second one in 8 months, which is even worse news.

Edited by haroldsnepsts

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No Suspension for Lucic

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=601357

TORONTO -- After a thorough review of the play, including a formal disciplinary hearing Monday, Brendan Shanahan, NHL Senior Vice President of Player Safety and Hockey Operations, has decided against any further discipline to Boston forward Milan Lucic for his hit on Buffalo goalie Ryan Miller in Saturday's game at TD Garden.

Shanahan held a hearing with Lucic via conference call because he had specific questions he wanted to ask before making a determination on potential supplemental discipline.

"I had the hearing because I did make an initial assessment of the play as I do with all plays, but I did have some questions for Milan and I wanted to hear directly from him," Shanahan told NHL.com. "They were regarding his intent; at what point did he know there was going to be a collision; and whether or not he felt he had the time to avoid the collision. I was satisfied with his answers."

Shanahan said the minor penalty for charging was the proper call in this case because it follows Rule 42.1, which reads "a goalkeeper is not fair game just because he is outside the goal crease area."

"The minor penalty called on the ice was the correct call," Shanahan said. "And, while it's unfortunate that Miller was hurt I saw nothing egregious about this hit that would elevate it to supplemental discipline."

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Wow. Lack of intent?

Let's see, Lucic made no effort at all to avoid Miller, who was on a pretty straight path and not moving quickly. Then he follows through on his check when contact is made. That's lack of intent?

Maybe the hit wasn't suspension-worthy, but to say it was a lack of intent is a load of crap. You have 1) an intentional hit on a goaltender, who by the rules is not fair game 2) that led to a concussion of that player 3) by a player who has been suspended in the past.

Sorry. This isn't the same level of punishment we saw from Shanny in the preseason and early in the season.

The wheel of justice is starting to spin a little...

Edited by haroldsnepsts
Rick D, hooon, Uncle Danny and 2 others like this

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I don't understand the outrage about the lack of suspension.

I can see where the charging call was made, even though I don't like it, but it was a shoulder hit, not a head shot, not a blind side hit, not any of these nitpicky ticky tack penalty du jour the NHL is confusingly trying to enforce. Lucic simply tried for the puck and braced himself to deliver a check to Miller. I doubt it was accidental, which is why it was a penalty, but it's not so bad nor such an intent to injure that it warrants a suspension just because Miller's helmet flew off and now it turns out he has a concussion. I don't think there's any sense to amplifying a punishment just because of outrage.

Edited by Shoreline
hudler99 and P. Marlowe like this

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I don't understand the outrage about the lack of suspension.

I can see where the charging call was made, even though I don't like it, but it was a shoulder hit, not a head shot, not a blind side hit, not any of these nitpicky ticky tack penalty du jour the NHL is confusingly trying to enforce. Lucic simply tried for the puck and braced himself to deliver a check to Miller. I doubt it was accidental, which is why it was a penalty, but it's not so bad nor such an intent to injure that it warrants a suspension just because Miller's helmet flew off and now it turns out he has a concussion. I don't think there's any sense to amplifying a punishment just because of outrage.

Has there really been a lot of outrage in this thread? To me it reads mostly as confusion.

As I said in my post, I think an argument can be made that it didn't warrant a suspension. But for Shanny to say it's due to lack of intent doesn't make a lot of sense and is a little surprising based on the standard he was using early in the season.

Goalies are not fair game. It's like if Lucic had lined up a player without the puck, didn't go out of his way to avoid contact, and even followed through on the hit like he did with Miller. He may not have intended to injure that player, but when you intentionally hit a guy who's not legally hittable, it's a grey area at best because the intent is pretty clearly to take a shot at someone you shouldn't.

If he wanted to keep in line with how he has been giving out punishment, honestly I think Shanny should've given a fine to Lucic for intentionally running a goalie and concussing Miller.

Edited by haroldsnepsts
Doc Holliday likes this

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