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#21 newfy

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 03:07 PM

Am I the only one that thinks the Simmonds incident isnt really compareable?

Calling someone a ****** does have sexual overtones but isnt really exclusively used to put down gays. If I had to guess I would say Barch called him a n*****. A word that was used while blacks were enslaved, raped, killed etc. That hasnt happened to gays, and therefore in my eyes isn't nearly as bad.

If he did call him the n word though, I expect a decent suspension. It is funny that guys often throw dirty hits all the time, dont get suspended but someone calls someone a mean name and theyre going to get the book thrown at them

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#22 LeftWinger

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 03:30 PM

It's actually all stupid. Someone said earlier, sticks and stones etc... He does not need a suspension, since he used a racial slur and got caught, he will now and forever be labeled as a racist. For the players that are just like him, they wont care, but for the player (and teammates) that aren't, they will disassociate themselves from him and will alienate him from certain things they do together because they will not not want people to think that they accept him. He pretty much punished himself, he will always be remembered for this....and that is the sad part. It's gonna affect his current position with Florida and it's gonna affect his ability to sign contracts elsewhere. He dug his own grave.

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#23 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 03:36 PM

I think the most the league can do is a fine- Barch did already sit for the majority of a game. This is a serious issue, but I don't know if the league can do any more considering the treatment of the Simmonds issue in the pre-season. I wouldn't be surprised if the Panthers sit Barch for a few games.

It's a disappointing situation, but I honestly do not know what the league can do when it comes it setting guidelines for trash-talk. This was certainly over the line, but I'm not sure how/if the league could establish a benchmark when it comes to proper/improper trash talk.

#24 GMRwings1983

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 04:31 PM

So is the referee's word on this golden?

Meaning, the league doesn't need audio to have proof?

I've never heard of someone being suspended because the referee thinks they should be.

Edited by GMRwings1983, 01 January 2012 - 04:32 PM.

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#25 barabbas16

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 04:57 PM

Am I the only one that thinks the Simmonds incident isnt really compareable?

Calling someone a ****** does have sexual overtones but isnt really exclusively used to put down gays. If I had to guess I would say Barch called him a n*****. A word that was used while blacks were enslaved, raped, killed etc. That hasnt happened to gays, and therefore in my eyes isn't nearly as bad.

If he did call him the n word though, I expect a decent suspension. It is funny that guys often throw dirty hits all the time, dont get suspended but someone calls someone a mean name and theyre going to get the book thrown at them


Not sure if you're the only one or not, but I don't agree with you. It is comparable in my opinion. I could argue that you could listen to almost any rap or hip hop song and hear the 'N' word used in a non-derogatory manner, but that's not really the point.

We all know exactly what Simmonds and Barch meant when they said whatever words or phrases. They both said something derogatory to someone else because of something personal about them that has nothing to do with hockey. Personally, I don't care whether there are suspensions for this or how severe the possible suspensions are... as long as everyone is treated the same.

It's an issue of preferential treatment, in my eyes. Is the league going to give preferential treatment to one player over another? Or one 'group of people' that were isnulted over another?

That said, if that happens... life will go on, and I will still watch hockey.... while thinking less of those who dish out the punishments for these sorts of things.

#26 Casey

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 05:10 PM

That hasnt happened to gays, and therefore in my eyes isn't nearly as bad


Wrong. Iran has executed 4000 people since 1979 for being homosexual, there is routine imprisonment for such in Saudi Arabia. Homosexuality is punishable by death in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Mauritania, Sudan, Yemen, Nigeria, Gambia and Somalia. Over 5000 died strictly for that "crime" in Nazi Germany.

It's a word, sure, but handwaving and saying it doesn't mean anything is patently wrong.
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#27 LeagueIntegrity

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 06:07 PM

Probably good because calling someone *** who isn't makes you sound like a grade-schooler.



I knew people like you would show up. I agree, regardless of your stance on homosexuality, it's annoying when people use it as a derogatory term. That's beside the point though; I'm sure it upsets some players too, and isn't that the point of all the trash talk on the ice? I'm sure all the players that call opposing players *** aren't homophobes, but know that it'll get under the skin of players like yourselves who seem to be overly sensitive.

#28 BlakKy

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 06:15 PM

I knew people like you would show up. I agree, regardless of your stance on homosexuality, it's annoying when people use it as a derogatory term. That's beside the point though; I'm sure it upsets some players too, and isn't that the point of all the trash talk on the ice? I'm sure all the players that call opposing players *** aren't homophobes, but know that it'll get under the skin of players like yourselves who seem to be overly sensitive.


I get where you are going. If some player is dumb enough to use *** as an insult and really mean it I guess a peer could receive it and really take it to heart. ie. successful trash talk.

#29 BigWillieStyle

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 07:43 PM

raped, killed etc. That hasnt happened to gays, and therefore in my eyes isn't nearly as bad.



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I would assume that between The NHL and The Florida Panthers, that like most other corporations, one or both of them, have a code of conduct for all of their employees to follow that includes a non-harassment clause based on race, religion, color, creed, or sexual orientation. I am sure this will be brought forward while deciding what kind of punishment to hand out. By not doing anything about the Simmonds-Avery incident, they leave themselves plenty of room to shoot themselves in the foot with this one.

Edited by BigWillieStyle, 01 January 2012 - 09:51 PM.


#30 stevkrause

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 08:01 PM

Matthew Shepard says, Hi.

http://en.wikipedia....Matthew_Shepard





I would assume that between The NHL and The Florida Panthers, that like most other corporations, one or both of them, have a code of conduct for all of their employees to follow that includes a non-harassment clause based on race, religion, color, creed, or sexual orientation. I am sure this will be brought forward while deciding what kind of punishment to hand out. By not doing nothing anything about the Simmonds-Avery incident, they leave themselves plenty of room to shoot themselves in the foot with this one.

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Edited by stevkrause, 01 January 2012 - 08:03 PM.

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#31 BigWillieStyle

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 08:06 PM

A. Fixed that for you :)


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#32 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 12:16 AM

Regulating trash talk? Dealing out suspensions based on what a ref thought he heard, with no evidence at all? Yikes.

Good to see Subban like "Whatever". If Barch is suspended, this opens up doors for minority players to make false accusations of racist remarks, and for the league to jump to conclusions, without any evidence. I'm not supporting racial remarks, I am merely saying everything needs to be settled on the ice. We don't need players going to the league tattling.
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#33 newfy

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 12:37 AM

Wrong. Iran has executed 4000 people since 1979 for being homosexual, there is routine imprisonment for such in Saudi Arabia. Homosexuality is punishable by death in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Mauritania, Sudan, Yemen, Nigeria, Gambia and Somalia. Over 5000 died strictly for that "crime" in Nazi Germany.

It's a word, sure, but handwaving and saying it doesn't mean anything is patently wrong.

Sorry but I just dont see it as bad personally. There is not a single person in the NHL that is from any of those countries and the countries that actually have the NHL teams in them have never came as close to anything like that. Its still also not nearly as bad as what black people had happen to them.

I never said it doesnt mean anything, but its a USA/Canada thing pretty much exclusively that finds the term ****** as derogatory.

I'm not saying it should be thrown around but it really racks my brain that anyone would think those terms are even in the same ball park as far as offensiveness goes

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#34 uk_redwing

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 08:08 AM

Calling someone a ****** does have sexual overtones but isnt really exclusively used to put down gays. If I had to guess I would say Barch called him a n*****. A word that was used while blacks were enslaved, raped, killed etc. That hasnt happened to gays, and therefore in my eyes isn't nearly as bad.


Gays were persecuted heavily by the Nazi's in WWII. If you were *** and in the Axis empire, your fate was the same as the Jewish and Gypsy fate. There's a hell of a lot of countries out there that will burn/stone you for homosexuality, as well. I wouldn't say they haven't had similar sufferings.

From medieval times up until about a century ago in nearly every country open homosexuality would earn you a trip to the gallows/prison.

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#35 RedFX

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:44 AM

If I remember correctly, Denis Hamel used the same slur on Ray Emery several years ago and was not suspended. Strangely enough, it was actually Emery who was suspended 3 games for his retaliation
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#36 Ally

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 04:18 PM

Sorry but I just dont see it as bad personally. There is not a single person in the NHL that is from any of those countries and the countries that actually have the NHL teams in them have never came as close to anything like that. Its still also not nearly as bad as what black people had happen to them.

I never said it doesnt mean anything, but its a USA/Canada thing pretty much exclusively that finds the term ****** as derogatory.

I'm not saying it should be thrown around but it really racks my brain that anyone would think those terms are even in the same ball park as far as offensiveness goes


There are also no NHL players who were, at one time, personally enslaved but many players probably have family that were treated badly based on race OR because of homosexuality. I see where you are coming from but racial slurs and homophobic slurs both carry a lot of weight and are, imo, out of line. That being said, I don't think the league can regulate trash talk but this sort of thing would be better handled by the team, it would make sense to me for them to sit him a few games or something just to show that they don't condone the behavior.

 
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#37 Konnan511

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 04:29 PM

It's a douchey thing to do, fairly childish, but not the worst thing in the world and happens in all leagues across the world.
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#38 achildr1

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 06:23 PM

Sorry but I just dont see it as bad personally. There is not a single person in the NHL that is from any of those countries and the countries that actually have the NHL teams in them have never came as close to anything like that. Its still also not nearly as bad as what black people had happen to them.

I never said it doesnt mean anything, but its a USA/Canada thing pretty much exclusively that finds the term ****** as derogatory.

I'm not saying it should be thrown around but it really racks my brain that anyone would think those terms are even in the same ball park as far as offensiveness goes


Marcel Goc, Thomas Greiss, Christian Erhoff, Jochen Hecht, Marco Sturm, Dennis Seidenburg, and Alexander Sulzer are from Germany. I get your point but there are some from Germany at least.

Edited by achildr1, 02 January 2012 - 06:28 PM.


#39 puckbags

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:14 PM

I'm confused, black people call each other n***ers and its ok but if a white guy calls a black guy a n***er he should get the book thrown at him? Read Fleury's book, nothing is off limits on the ice and Fleury knew it back then and it still got to him although things back then weren't as racially motivated because it was all white dudes in the league.

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#40 Din758

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 01:20 PM

the day that people are truly proud of who they are and where they and their ancestors come from, there will be no more hatespeak in the world.

somebody calls me a cracker, white trash, or whatever, i laugh. im comfortable with who i am.

somebody calls a black man their respective slurs. they should be proud, not that they were slaves, but that their people with help of others overcame those obstacles and are now equal to the rest of us.

if somebody calls a *** person their respective slurs, they should be proud that they were strong enough to come out of the closet to declare themselves ***, which is not the norm. (I dont mean its not normal to be ***, but its not the majority)

so on and so forth.

once people stop letting it get under their skin, the hatespeak will stop.

its like what we tell our kids when they get bullied. quit reacting to whats said and take it with a smile, eventually they will figure out it doesnt hurt you and will stop.
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