Time to start looking for a new coaching staff

[Guest Crymson]

and may I ask how much more time he needs? We havent gone three rounds in 3 years and have gotten worse each year since.

You're discounting this season already, which is a shame. Let's reduce it to the last two seasons How many teams have gone three rounds in the last two seasons? Answer: seven. And the only team to make it both years got crushed both times.

It's a shame that you consider continually being a contender to be completely unacceptable, but I suppose that's the spoilage that occurs when a team is very successful.

No there is no guarantee just like everything else in life, but that doesnt mean it shouldntbe done.

Of course there are reason why it shouldn't be done. The team attains a fair measure of success right now, and neither the players nor the management nor the owners would like to fire a successful coach and hire a new one who may dump it all down the drain. That you're advocating this risk because the team is not reaching the conference finals and beyond is another sign of spoilage. That you say there's no reason why the risk shouldn't be taken is really an ultimate sign.

By your thinking there no reason to trade or draft anyone either because there isnt a guarantee that those people will perform any better than who they replaced.

Drafting is zero-risk, so that makes sense. As for trades, the only moves that should be made--indeed, the only moves that ARE made--are those that have a good chance of success. It is, of course, a calculated risk. It is, too, a far lesser risk than firing a successful coach.

Thats a lose philosophy that I will never get on board with.

"You don't advocate taking this risk because of the possibility that it'll make things worse, so obviously you don't advocate taking any risks at all!" Typical accusations of absolutism. Very typical, trite and worn-out strawman argument.

Accepting the status quo is the road to defeat in life and Ill bet MY life on it. Doesnt just include hockey, thats life in general. Losers just go along with whatever is happening and randomly complain while acheivers find a way to always succeed, regardless of the risks.

Blah blah blah.

I hope you arent anywhere near the decision making of ANYTHING cause its bound to fail by your ethos alone.

Cool down, buster.

[MibJab 4]

Our hockey team best represents our city... Our team has heart. Our city has heart. We're both just a little slow, beaten up and, outdated. That's all.

Zetterberg should take Weber on that MTV show "Bully Beat down."

The NHL is trying to take all the skilled, European players out of the game with North American goons and headshots. Alfreddson, Zetterberg, Sedin's, Hossa.. what is the North American youth heading towards?

Should being able to play NHL hockey be on every UFC fighters resume?

Bary Gettman? Vince McMahon?

[Wing Across The Pond 196]

Fighters are losing their role in the game across the league, it's not just Detroit. Hard to justify a roster spot for a guy who doesn't bring much of anything else to the table especially when the other teams aren't carrying pure fighters either. They just need some guys that are hungry. I'd settle for a hint of chippiness at this point. I really don't give a s*** about fighting one way or the other, I just want guys who are willing to do whatever it takes to win so much so that they sometimes do something stupid.

I'd ******* kill to have Shea Weber on our side smashing some other team's star's head into the glass at the end of a game that's clearly over in your favor. I want a team that gets fined because they want it so bad that they make some stupid mistakes like that. Where's the tenacity on this team? It's absolutely non-existent.

[Wing Across The Pond 196]

Also, the thing about Holland that scares me is that if the league decided to remove the cap for one reason or another, and the Wings had the chance to actually use the money they have, I still don't see Holland moving most of these players. He's 'comfortable'.

However, following on from the Downey picture above, I remember reading an article that said Iginla was pretty much done in Calgary. I would move for him... SO bad. Give him a chance at even getting into the playoffs again, and tell him he can roll on the second line, maybe even with some of the kids as he's a guy to learn from.

[The Secret 304]

I hate to say this but it has become apparent that Mr Babcock has probably just worn out his welcome.

The stats say that other than a select few head coaches, such as Scotty, coaches tenured longer than 4 years dont win cups. Looks as though that may be true with Babs as well.

Came to mind talking with Crimson about the team and became very apparent that our guys just dont hear him the same way anymore. The players have a personal relationship with Babs the same way teenagers have with their parents. Both know that even if they get yelled at they know that the consequences are pretty hollow. The rest of the time they just dont care.

We all know that some organizations tend to replace coaches on a daily basis, we arent the Canadians or the Leafs, but look how effective it was with STL. Hitch came in and it was night and day from word go.

I seriously think that we need leadership more than we need a new team. The talent is there, the coaches are there to coax it from them and Babs & Co. just dont seem to be able to do that.

Right, let's get rid of the best coach in the league because the players on the ice have no heart, don't play full games, take stupid penalties and can't score for stretches (especially on the power play). He needs some fresh players on his bench that WILL hear him. Babs is a proven winner, tweak the roster leave Babs alone. Maybe ***** slap which ever coach is responsible for the power play and threaten his job!

[The Secret 304]

The NHL is trying to take all the skilled, European players out of the game with North American goons and headshots. Alfreddson, Zetterberg, Sedin's, Hossa.. what is the North American youth heading towards?

Should being able to play NHL hockey be on every UFC fighters resume?

Bary Gettman? Vince McMahon?

What crap are you talking here? Are you inventing a conspiracy for Bettman that has him having NA player target skilled european players and taking them out of the game with headshots? Give me a break.

North American play off hockey is a rough tough sport.... if a player can't handle the heat, be he Euro, Chinese or whatever, then he should go play ringette or patty-a-cake or something!

The dirty s*** needs to be penalized, and Shanny is doing just that, but it will never be completely removed because of the speed, intensity and emotion in the game.

[The Secret 304]

Nill is the one I actually saw say it on tv. I wanted to smack him through the screen. Holland proves it year after year by bringing in nothing but small euro puck ticklers.

esteef

I agree with you man. Holland is a master but he's also made some really crappy choices imo. Trading down in the draft to get Landon Feraro and lose a big tough kid in Carter Ashton pissed me right off. Trading a 1st round pick that could have gotten us Downie but instead brought back Quincey? Why? We need to toughen this roster up with good North American boys.

[Draper_Rocks#33 4]

Just wanted to share a story with yous.. I played hockey two weeks ago with paul mcleans nephew tyler.We had a good chat talking about the wings and sens,and he told me that paul had talked to babs the week before and he told paul you know i never really knew how much you did till you wernt there anymore. Babs took on basically rookies which i think most would agree was not the best choice. In my opinion its not babcock that should have his job in question.

[b.shanafan14 733]

As frustrating as the lack of accountability is, getting rid of Babcock would be a huge mistake. The Wings will not find a better/similar coach anywhere. Blame his rookie assistants for being irrelevant and Holland for allowing the team to stagnate for 3 years. Lost two coaches to head coaching jobs, where they've since excelled, and replaced them with nobodies on a team of guys who have forgotten more things about hockey than some college or minor league coach will ever know. Sign some respectable veteran coaches who have the itch to assistant positions.

Either way, this starts at the top. I'm not saying Holland needs to be replaced, but he needs to get off his ass and do something. As others have said, Babcock has made several comments in recent years about the competition getting better and the Wings not doing enough, as well as very thinly veiled comments about the need for grit. He know what it takes to win, its Holland's job to provide him with the personnel to do so.

And don't think for a second that the lack of accountability for Franzen doesn't have to do with Holland signing a player with a small body of work to an astronomical contract and needing to justify it/save face.

[edicius 3,269]

How about the defensive and offensive coordinators that they brought that had no NHL experience?

THIS.

[Wingedwheeler2 7]

N'ville is probably GLAD when we go on the power play. "OH thank god, two minutes where we don't have to worry about them scoring".

If they just keep the two point men open then all we'll do is pass pass pass pass pass pass pass pass pass pass pass pass pass mishandle out of the zone the whole time.

Ummmm.......don't the Wings have 5 Power play goals in this series? I know its at least 4.......and they are being outscored 9-4 5 on 5 in the series.

[The Secret 304]

Ummmm.......don't the Wings have 5 Power play goals in this series? I know its at least 4.......and they are being outscored 9-4 5 on 5 in the series.

This is a tight series that will be decided by special teams play more then anything. 4 ppg's on 80 chances is NOT good enough. I too am sick of the 8 million passes and shot from places that have little chance of getting in. Had our Power Play been better I think we could have won any/all of the games we've lost so far.

[mmamolo 287]

Lidstrom is going to retire. Go ahead and neg me...I'm calling it right now.

I'm not saying you're wrong but it would be an awful shame for him to go out as the Wings fizzle

[Valas19 50]

Can we get John Tortorella just for the HBO 24/7 series? I love me some Johnny Torts, guy personifies entertainment.

[wingslogo19 281]

I think it hurts that our assistant coaches have never had any nhl experience

Edited April 18, 2012 by wingslogo19

[Nev 1,085]

1) The roster has problems, we all know it, but Babs can only work with the hand he's dealt. I think its pretty obvious he's not happy with the roster as is. He always wants more size and toughness. He wanted a big upgrade at the deadline as he (quite rightly) felt this was our best chance since 2009. He's complained about Franzen not moving his feet or using his size.

2) Before the injuries, we were actually playing really well. Datsyuk and Howard were on fire - since they came back they've struggled to find form, fitness and confidence. We're missing Helm and Eaves which exposes our bottom 6 big style

3) Who is there available who is a better coach than Babcock? I want names people. Babcock is for me one of the top-5 coaches in the NHL. Who is available who could do a better job than him. Don't come here with your Hitchcock's and your Trotz's and your Tortorella's, we ain't gettting them.

4) Thats not to say I don't think some players aren't tuning him out - I think some are. But there will be roster turnover this summer, hopefully an infusion of youth and fresh faces will help - as some have made the comparison when we lost Lang, Schneider etc.

[b.shanafan14 733]

1) The roster has problems, we all know it, but Babs can only work with the hand he's dealt. I think its pretty obvious he's not happy with the roster as is. He always wants more size and toughness. He wanted a big upgrade at the deadline as he (quite rightly) felt this was our best chance since 2009. He's complained about Franzen not moving his feet or using his size.

2) Before the injuries, we were actually playing really well. Datsyuk and Howard were on fire - since they came back they've struggled to find form, fitness and confidence. We're missing Helm and Eaves which exposes our bottom 6 big style

3) Who is there available who is a better coach than Babcock? I want names people. Babcock is for me one of the top-5 coaches in the NHL. Who is available who could do a better job than him. Don't come here with your Hitchcock's and your Trotz's and your Tortorella's, we ain't gettting them.

4) Thats not to say I don't think some players aren't tuning him out - I think some are. But there will be roster turnover this summer, hopefully an infusion of youth and fresh faces will help - as some have made the comparison when we lost Lang, Schneider etc.

:thumbup:

Agree on all points. And the players who are tuning Babcock out are the ones who are the problem. Can't swap out a one-of-a-kind coach like Babcock for the poor showings of players who are undersized (Hudler), past their prime (Bertuzzi, Holmstrom, Cleary), uninterested/lazy (Franzen), injured (Helm, Eaves) or inadequate (Emmerton, Abdelkader at center). Who does that leave in the scoring department? Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula, Miller, Nyquist. Sounds about right.

Between the comments about how this team isn't built to compete physically, wishing he had someone in the trenches, and getting pissed about missed free agency/trade opportunities, I think Babcock has lobbied plenty to change tweak the formula to get it back to what it was in 2008-2009.

Babcock "pissed off" thread

[Wingedwheeler2 7]

This is a tight series that will be decided by special teams play more then anything. 4 ppg's on 80 chances is NOT good enough. I too am sick of the 8 million passes and shot from places that have little chance of getting in. Had our Power Play been better I think we could have won any/all of the games we've lost so far.

My point was this......Nashvilles power play has been worse than ours, and so has their penalty kill....yet they lead the series 3-1. They have killed us 5 on 5 and I think that is a damning stat. I must have counted 6-8 soft dumps at the net last night that Rinne just gloved off without so much as a red jersey in sight.....that tells me this team is either not capable of crashing the net, or not willing......either way, its an issue.

I am a lifelong Wings fan.....and I still cheer for them every game....but the time has come to start rebuilding the dam. We are the oldest team in the NHL.....I think we have crossed that line from experienced to just plain old. I'm all for a youth movement.....might have to sacrifice the now for brighter days in the future.

[CrimsonFlame 424]

My point was this......Nashvilles power play has been worse than ours, and so has their penalty kill....yet they lead the series 3-1. They have killed us 5 on 5 and I think that is a damning stat. I must have counted 6-8 soft dumps at the net last night that Rinne just gloved off without so much as a red jersey in sight.....that tells me this team is either not capable of crashing the net, or not willing......either way, its an issue.

I am a lifelong Wings fan.....and I still cheer for them every game....but the time has come to start rebuilding the dam. We are the oldest team in the NHL.....I think we have crossed that line from experienced to just plain old. I'm all for a youth movement.....might have to sacrifice the now for brighter days in the future.

Don't look at the stats. Look at the products. Our PP has been s*** for a while. Why? Because they spend more time looking for a perfect opportunity that never arises than firing on an ok opportunity.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

The assistant coaches, maybe. Not Babcock.

It is the personnel that is the problem. Not the coaching. The ball is in Holland's court, now.

[wings1110 184]

holland keeps building soft teams.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

The assistant coaches, maybe. Not Babcock.

It is the personnel that is the problem. Not the coaching. The ball is in Holland's court, now.

Exactly. And maybe not even the assistants, honestly. Babcock brought in some very green coaches. There's a chance they've learned a ton this season and will be better next year.

But this roster needs a shakeup for sure. If there's any silver lining in guys like Lids and Stuart leaving, it's that it forces Holland to do more than tweak the lineup.

[hattrickz331 4]

I hate to say this but it has become apparent that Mr Babcock has probably just worn out his welcome.

The stats say that other than a select few head coaches, such as Scotty, coaches tenured longer than 4 years dont win cups. Looks as though that may be true with Babs as well.

Came to mind talking with Crimson about the team and became very apparent that our guys just dont hear him the same way anymore. The players have a personal relationship with Babs the same way teenagers have with their parents. Both know that even if they get yelled at they know that the consequences are pretty hollow. The rest of the time they just dont care.

We all know that some organizations tend to replace coaches on a daily basis, we arent the Canadians or the Leafs, but look how effective it was with STL. Hitch came in and it was night and day from word go.

I seriously think that we need leadership more than we need a new team. The talent is there, the coaches are there to coax it from them and Babs & Co. just dont seem to be able to do that.

you say the talent is there, where is this so called talent? are you kidding me!!! except for z and pavel this team is a joke. a bunch of third and fourth liners period. you can kid yourself all day long, this team needs remade NOW. if anybody should go it should be ken holland for sitting on his ass at trade deadline and keeping the same sorry ass team that got bounced the last 2 yrs in the second round.

[Dominator2005 558]

Im done with babs after tonights game. 28 shots ZERO goals in 2 periods and you keep the same lines. obviously s*** isnt working switch it up drastically not just moving one person around.

It's not the quantity it's the quality that matters.

This team is not BUILD for playoff's - END of story.

2nd line is small and weak

3rd line isn't physical at all

4th line - Grand Rapids potential

Flip and Zetterberg can't play together - in order for them to be effective they need to control the puck and there is only 1 puck.

Bab's is the best coach in NHL !!

[HankthaTank 1,100]

Getting rid of Babcock would be a mistake.

I'm sure there's some message fatigue but he's still a great coach. What he needs more than anything are players who compete hard every night. This lineup needs a shakeup before they need a new coach.

Sums it all up right here.