91 replies to this topic

[blueadams]

This thread isn't meant to be about what we think should happen; it's about what we think Ken Holland thinks should happen...aka, what IS going to happen.





*****





There's going to be about 20.8 mil available in cap space going into the off-season.

1) First, I think all three RFA's will be brought back. I don't think Quincey should be, but I don't think Holland's going to let him walk after giving up a 1st round pick to get him. I don't really know much about how RFA raises work. I'm just going to project that all three get about 0.5 mil raises. 20.8 - 1.4 (Helm) - 1.3 (Abdelkader) - 3.6 (Quincey) = 14.5.

2) Second, let's just go ahead and get this out of the way. Lidstrom is probably going to come back for at least one more year. He's probably not going to take much of a pay-cut either (for whatever reason?). If he had any interest in taking a pay-cut, he probably would have the last two off-seasons. I'm not sure that anything has happened to change that. If it has, excellent, it will be very helpful. But I sort of doubt it. I'll go ahead and guess that he returns at about 6.0 mil. 14.5 - 6.0 = 8.5.

3) Third, Zach Parise. There's nothing we need more than a superstar forward to help out Pav. There's 8.5 mil available in cap space. It's going to cost about 7.0 mil to get Parise. I think we should do it. I think we will do it. Done. 8.5 - 7.0 = 1.5.

*I'm going to cut in and address the "Ryan Suter" issue right here. A) If Lidstrom retires, or takes a monster pay-cut, then we might have the cap space to begin talking about adding Suter. But like I said, I don't think either of those events are likely to occur. And even though many of us would love to see it happen, I don't see Holland moving a big contract (Franzen, Filppula, Cleary, Bertuzzi, etc.) this off-season. In all likelihood, we're going to have about 8.5 mil in cap space after resigning our RFA's and Lidstrom. It's going to cost us about 7.0 mil to sign either Suter or Parise. Recall Babcock's post-game/series comments. He seemed more or less pleased with our defensive performance (aside from occassional "breakdowns"). What he was adamant about was our lack of depth up front; of Pav not having enough help. If that money's there, it's going up front. B) Even if we somehow had the cap space, why would Suter come here. Why, if the money was even close, would he leave the team he's spent his entire professional career being a huge part of building from a joke into perhaps the favorite to come out of the West this post-season? And to come to a team that they just proved themselves to be light years ahead of a week ago? Sorry, but I just really don't see it happening.

4) Fourth, some general/small house-cleaning issues.
-A) I think that Brendan Smith will be added to the roster (most likely stepping into Stuart's role). 1.5 - 0.9 = 0.6.
-B) I think that Jan Mursak will replace Riley Sheahan on the roster (he actually makes less too). 0.6 + 0.3 = 0.9.
-C) I think that Joey MacDonald will be replaced by a veteran with more of an NHL track record. For whatever reason, Holland, Babcock and co. have never been comfortable going into a season with Mac as the #2. He had a great season last year, and still, we paid more to bring back Ty. He had a mediocre, injury-plagued season this year, so I see us going out and getting someone else again. Probably someone that makes about 1 mil a season (Joey Mac makes 0.4 mil less). 0.9 - 0.4 = 0.5.
-D) I think that Jakub Kindl will be replaced by a veteran as well. Hopefully somone that fights. Hopefully someone that costs about the same (so no cap change). Kind of what we hoped Commie might be this year. I think that Holland, Babcock and co. really went out of their way to give Kindl an extended NHL audition this season, especially down the stretch; and he just didn't really do anything to prove that he deserves a spot in our organization. His trade value is probably as high now as it's ever going to be.

So, in all likelihood, this is our team next season (with only, roughly, 0.5 mil in cap space available...no room to even begin talking about Hudler, Holmstrom or Stuart - who appears to have no intentions of returning anyways):

Franzen-Datsyuk-Parise
Nyquist-Zetterberg-Filppula
Cleary-Helm-Bertuzzi
Miller-Abdelkader-Eaves
Emmerton
Mursak

Lidstrom-Ericsson
Kronwall-Smith
Quincey-White
*???(1 mil)

Howard
*???(1 mil)





*****





Unless there's a really surprising trade (Franzen, Filppula, Cleary, Bertuzzi, etc.), unless Holland really surprisingly lets Quincey walk after just giving up a first round pick to get him, or unless Lidstrom does something really surprising like retire, or take a huge pay cut, THAT is more or less the team that we're going to put out there next season.

I really don't think that's all that debatable, in terms of what we should be expecting.

The question is, "is it good enough to win a Stanley Cup?" Is Zach Parise going to be enough of an addition to the top line (replacing Bertuzzi, essentially) to really make THE difference? Is Brendan Smith going to be able to aptly replace Stuart in the back-end? Is Nyquist really going to shine, and be an upgrade over Hudler on the second line? Is Bertuzzi entering the bottom six (replacing Holmstrom, essentially) going to have a positive effect on our depth? Are we going to stay healthy? Are our veterans going to be able to fight off father time for another year. Are our younger players, in general, going to be able to take a step forward? Are guys that have been slacking (like Mule) going to regain their desire?

I don't know. A lot of things need to go right. Our defensive group, IMO, really let us down against Nashville. There were too many breakdowns to be called occasional lapses. And we're bringing back essentially the same group, only with an added element of question (Smith in for Stuart). Whatever coaching problems we had against Nashville MUST be fixed in order for us to be contenders. Brendan Smith needs to have a really great rookie year. Quincey REALLY needs to get it together and start earning his pay. Ericsson needs to keep improving. Kronwall needs to handle the #1 defenseman minutes, and well. Lidstrom needs to be able to fight off age for one more year.

And up front, Parise really needs to be our savior. He really needs to pick this entire team's play up by being a great linemate for Pav. Nyquist needs to have a really great first year. Mule needs to get his crap together and start playing. Val needs to be ready to finally get it done in the post-season. Bertuzzi and Cleary REALLY, REALLY, REALLY need to start picking up the energy, start playing more physically, and start doing what third liners need to do.

Lot of big question marks. Lot of things I don't really like about the team. Lot of things I'd do differently than Holland. But this is most likely what we will be seeing next season.

Edited by blueadams, 24 April 2012 - 12:31 PM.

[rrasco]

Hopefully less line threads

[rick zombo]

Hudler resigns? He's not in your lineup.

[blueadams]

Hudler resigns? He's not in your lineup.

read the whole thing if you're going to comment.

[LeftWinger]

We love ya Blue, but not another "REALIST" thread. We already have someone telling us how our scenarios are junk and we don't do homework. He was so passionate about how much of a realist he is that he started his own thread. It seems that changes to this team are just all junk to him. He will come in here, pick apart your ideas, call it fantasy, explain why the Wings in it current status is great, Franzenlina is still the best sniper in the league and that nobody can take his place. All the while ignoring the fact that everyone is mentioning Parise, then bringing up Parise like he was the only "realist" to suggest Zach become a Red Wing....


Also, you mention Hudler will be re-signed, but at $3M+ it wold better to let him walk. It would be a mistake if he did re-sign here. Also, if you watched the same Lidstrom we all watched, then you should agree that he needs to retire. If he cannot heal correctly and it affects his game that much, then he is done. No offense to him, not being negative, but we don't need a Lidstrom that isn't even playing like he is a human, let alone super-human...

I also think Cleary and Mursak (if not Emmerton too) should be shopped around. But that is just my opinion and there are some good arguments for trading them and keeping them. Also, you say Mursak and Emmerton will start in GR, they'd have to pass through waivers to do so, may as well try to get a couple of draft picks for them...BTW Olie would be bad here...

Edited by LeftWinger, 24 April 2012 - 11:03 AM.

[Hatethedrake!]

Hudler re-signs for 5 years, 25 mil. Samuelsson and Kopecky are signed as UFAs. Quincey is re-signed as well. Holmstrom signs for 2 more years. Lidstrom retires. Stuart is gone. Kenny says he loves our depth and that the UFA prices were just way too high. Says he had interest in 4 or 5 players but they were too rich for his blood. Kenny says the Wings are not that far away from winning the Cup as they lost to the Cup champion Nashville Preds. Says he will wait until the trade deadline with all the Cap space available. Deadline will come and Kenny will trade for Ville Leino saying he is the missing piece and they never should have traded him in the first place. Wings lose in the first round to Nashville again. Rinse and repeat.

Ok so this is the nagging voice in my head which I keep trying to block out. I will not mention it anymore!

Here is what Kenny will do...Sign Parise and Suter. Nick comes back. Homer retires and gets a job as Haakan Andersson's assistant as swedish scout. Quincey is traded to the Oilers for a 2nd round pick. Nyquist and Smith make the team. Stuart leaves for Cali. Emmerton is waived and is picked up by Stevie in Tampa. Moen is signed to play with Eaves and Abby on the 4th line.

Parise-Datsyuk-Nyquist
Filppula-Zetterberg-Franzen
Cleary-Helm-Bertuzzi
Moen-Abdelkader-Eaves
Miller, Mursak

Lidstrom-Suter
Kronwall-White
Ericsson-Smith
Kindl

Howard-MacDonald

[blueadams]

We love ya Blue, but not another "REALIST" thread. We already have someone telling us how our scenarios are junk and we don't do homework. He was so passionate about how much of a realist he is that he started his own thread. It seems that changes to this team are just all junk to him. He will come in here, pick apart your ideas, call it fantasy, explain why the Wings in it current status is great, Franzenlina is still the best sniper in the league and that nobody can take his place. All the while ignoring the fact that everyone is mentioning Parise, then bringing up Parise like he was the only "realist" to suggest Zach become a Red Wing....


anyhow, I don't think Jokinen will be here, Holland had a chance to get him for nothing last July, I don't know why he would trade for him now. Also, you mention Hudler will be re-signed, but at $3M+ it wold better to let him walk. It would be a mistake if he did re-sign here. Also, if you watched the same Lidstrom we all watched, then you should agree that he needs to retire. If he cannot heal correctly and it affects his game that much, then he is done. No offense to him, not being negative, but we don't need a Lidstrom that isn't even playing like he is a human, let alone super-human...

I also think Cleary and Mursak (if not Emmerton too) should be shopped around. But that is just my opinion and there are some good arguments for trading them and keeping them. Just curious, who are you trading to Carolina for Jokinen? Also, you say Mursak and Emmerton will start in GR, they'd have to pass through waivers to do so, may as well try to get a couple of draft picks for them...

1) Olli Jokinen is an UFA.

2) I agree with a lot of what you say. But it's not about what I think. This thread is about what Red Wings management thinks/will do.

3) wrt Hudler. Same thing. Read the whole thread. I'll rewrite it here now so it's less confusing. But I penciled him as being resigned...then showed that it wasn't possible...then removed him and his cap hit. Apologies for the confusion.

[Hockey13Playa]

Hopefully less line threads

Agreed. He/she made about 3 in what last 24 hours, give or take? Hot damn. All basically saying a variation of the same type of thing.

[LeftWinger]

1) Olli Jokinen is an UFA.

2) I agree with a lot of what you say. But it's not about what I think. This thread is about what Red Wings management thinks/will do.

3) wrt Hudler. Same thing. Read the whole thread. I'll rewrite it here now so it's less confusing. But I penciled him as being resigned...then showed that it wasn't possible...then removed him and his cap hit. Apologies for the confusion.

Ya,I went back through your original post, sorry for my confusion. I still think it will be a mistake to sign Hudler, and then I added that I think Olli wouldn't be good here. He floats more than Franzen...

Hudler re-signs for 5 years, 25 mil. Samuelsson and Kopecky are signed as UFAs. Quincey is re-signed as well. Holmstrom signs for 2 more years. Lidstrom retires. Stuart is gone. Kenny says he loves our depth and that the UFA prices were just way too high. Says he had interest in 4 or 5 players but they were too rich for his blood. Kenny says the Wings are not that far away from winning the Cup as they lost to the Cup champion Nashville Preds. Says he will wait until the trade deadline with all the Cap space available. Deadline will come and Kenny will trade for Ville Leino saying he is the missing piece and they never should have traded him in the first place. Wings lose in the first round to Nashville again. Rinse and repeat.

Ok so this is the nagging voice in my head which I keep trying to block out. I will not mention it anymore!

Here is what Kenny will do...Sign Parise and Suter. Nick comes back. Homer retires and gets a job as Haakan Andersson's assistant as swedish scout. Quincey is traded to the Oilers for a 2nd round pick. Nyquist and Smith make the team. Stuart leaves for Cali. Emmerton is waived and is picked up by Stevie in Tampa. Moen is signed to play with Eaves and Abby on the 4th line.

Parise-Datsyuk-Nyquist
Filppula-Zetterberg-Franzen
Cleary-Helm-Bertuzzi
Moen-Abdelkader-Eaves
Miller, Mursak

Lidstrom-Suter
Kronwall-White
Ericsson-Smith
Kindl

Howard-MacDonald

Funny thing is, you know when you say to yourself "I have a weird feeling about this" and then all of a sudden it happens? That may be that voice in your head...God I hope you are wrong!!!

On the other hand, I do like your lineup, especially without Hudler, but I don't like this team with Franzen anymore...but if noone will take him, I guess he stays. Worried about Lids though, it may be over...

[mmamolo]

I woudl like, and think it's a distinct possibility (especially considering it was rumored the Wings were interested at the trade deadline), that the Wings go after David Jones of the Avs. 27 y.o, 6'2, 210 lbs, and shoots Right. He made $2.5M last year and his numbers were slightly down from the previous year. It may not take a ton more to get him. He would be an ideal replacement for Hudler.

I could also see them being interested in PA Parenteau. Even though he definitely isn't a goal scorer and he's not big he seems like the type of player the Wings like. That being said he's really only produced for two seasons and he's 29. The strange thing about him is if you look back at his career numbers he was consistenly putting up PPG stats (after his first couple years) in the AHL but he never got a shake in the NHL until these last two years.

[Frozen-Man]

Most likely move, trade Eaves.

I could be wrong but I don't think they will trade or move Eaves, he started the season well and Babs said several times during the Nashville series that he was the Wing's best penalty killer before he was injured.

[mmamolo]

Ya,I went back through your original post, sorry for my confusion. I still think it will be a mistake to sign Hudler, and then I added that I think Olli wouldn't be good here. He floats more than Franzen...


Funny thing is, you know when you say to yourself "I have a weird feeling about this" and then all of a sudden it happens? That may be that voice in your head...God I hope you are wrong!!!

On the other hand, I do like your lineup, especially without Hudler, but I don't like this team with Franzen anymore...but if noone will take him, I guess he stays. Worried about Lids though, it may be over...

I would be willing to bet a lot that Franzen is still a Wing come next October.

That being said, I think he and the wings are much better served with him in a third line role. I think he needs players like Helm and Bertuzzi playing a grinding style where the way you score is by driving the net and working pucks down low. I dont think Franzen works that well with Datsyuk because Datsyuk has the puck so much and Franzen as to act only as a shooter. I think Franzen is more effective when he has the puck on his stick and drives hard down low.

[blueadams]

Hudler re-signs for 5 years, 25 mil. Samuelsson and Kopecky are signed as UFAs. Quincey is re-signed as well. Holmstrom signs for 2 more years. Lidstrom retires. Stuart is gone. Kenny says he loves our depth and that the UFA prices were just way too high. Says he had interest in 4 or 5 players but they were too rich for his blood. Kenny says the Wings are not that far away from winning the Cup as they lost to the Cup champion Nashville Preds. Says he will wait until the trade deadline with all the Cap space available. Deadline will come and Kenny will trade for Ville Leino saying he is the missing piece and they never should have traded him in the first place. Wings lose in the first round to Nashville again. Rinse and repeat.

Ok so this is the nagging voice in my head which I keep trying to block out. I will not mention it anymore!

Here is what Kenny will do...Sign Parise and Suter. Nick comes back. Homer retires and gets a job as Haakan Andersson's assistant as swedish scout. Quincey is traded to the Oilers for a 2nd round pick. Nyquist and Smith make the team. Stuart leaves for Cali. Emmerton is waived and is picked up by Stevie in Tampa. Moen is signed to play with Eaves and Abby on the 4th line.

Parise-Datsyuk-Nyquist
Filppula-Zetterberg-Franzen
Cleary-Helm-Bertuzzi
Moen-Abdelkader-Eaves
Miller, Mursak

Lidstrom-Suter
Kronwall-White
Ericsson-Smith
Kindl

Howard-MacDonald

letting Quincey go doesn't create enough cap space to sign Suter, unfortunately. Not unless Nick takes a huge pay cut. And I'm not sure Suter would want to leave a better team for a worse team anyways.

[Hatethedrake!]

letting Quincey go doesn't create enough cap space to sign Suter, unfortunately. Not unless Nick takes a huge pay cut. And I'm not sure Suter would want to leave a better team for a worse team anyways.

It depends on what the Cap is. If it stays at 64 mil then there is no room. If it goes up to 68 then there is. If Suter wanted to stay in Nashville, he would have signed a long term extension a long time ago. The fact that he hasn't shows that the writing is on the wall. Nick is not taking a huge pay cut. He has done too much for this team to be disrespected like that.

[paulwoodsfan]

I would be willing to bet a lot that Franzen is still a Wing come next October.

That being said, I think he and the wings are much better served with him in a third line role. I think he needs players like Helm and Bertuzzi playing a grinding style where the way you score is by driving the net and working pucks down low. I dont think Franzen works that well with Datsyuk because Datsyuk has the puck so much and Franzen as to act only as a shooter. I think Franzen is more effective when he has the puck on his stick and drives hard down low.

This. The guy was very effective as a third-liner before he burst into a scorer. We need to get some value for him for the next five seasons and it seems hard to believe it will be in a first-line role, so putting him on the third line (and returning him to the PK rotation) seems like a good plan to me. He could still score 20-25 goals as a third-liner with the right linemates.

[mmamolo]

It depends on what the Cap is. If it stays at 64 mil then there is no room. If it goes up to 68 then there is. If Suter wanted to stay in Nashville, he would have signed a long term extension a long time ago. The fact that he hasn't shows that the writing is on the wall. Nick is not taking a huge pay cut. He has done too much for this team to be disrespected like that.

Man, don't even tease with a $68M cap. If that were the case this is what I would want:

FORWARDS
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Zach Parise ($6.500m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / David Jones ($2.750m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Darren Helm ($1.200m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.000m) / Danny Cleary ($2.800m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.000m) / Ryan Suter ($6.500m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.450m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $68,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,033,712; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $266,288

This. The guy was very effective as a third-liner before he burst into a scorer. We need to get some value for him for the next five seasons and it seems hard to believe it will be in a first-line role, so putting him on the third line (and returning him to the PK rotation) seems like a good plan to me. He could still score 20-25 goals as a third-liner with the right linemates.

Honestly, I dont even think we'd see a dip in his goal scoring. He may not have the huge games here and there but I think a 3rd line role with Helm and Bertuzzi could bring more consistency to his game. I think Franzen needs to be the top guy on his line. Plus, he is a legit threat to score (even though he disappears for games) and teams would have a harder time matching up with the Wings if Datsyuk anchored line 1, Zetterberg line 2 and Franzen line 3. Even more so if some one like Parise could be added.

[cusimano_brothers]

The line is still busy.

[PROBIE4PREZ]

2012-2013 Roster.

Boom done.

* Sheahan and Nyquist to AHL

Edited by PROBIE4PREZ, 24 April 2012 - 02:55 PM.

[Hatethedrake!]

I will post my team for a 65 mil Cap and Nick retiring...

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Darren Helm ($1.500m) / Danny Cleary ($2.800m)
Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.500m) / Drew Miller ($0.838m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($7.000m) / Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.250m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $65,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,292,045; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $707,955

Edited by Hatethedrake!, 24 April 2012 - 03:04 PM.

[LeftWinger]

IMO, I think Holland does go after Parise and Suter. He re-signs Hudler, Abby, Helm, Quincey and gives Lidstrom all the time and money he wants. He is fine with Howard and MacDonald in net and loses Stuart to UFA. Holmstrom retires. Smith and Nyquist are brought up permanently. If for some reason Holland loses one or both Parise and Suter then this team is in hot s*** and he should be ready for everyone calling for his head... It may work out if he lands both Parise and Suter, but what the odds? ANd if the Wings go into next season with only Smith and Nyquist as newcomers? Oh boy...

I will post my team for a 65 mil Cap and Nick retiring...

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)
Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Darren Helm ($1.500m) / Danny Cleary ($2.800m)
Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.500m) / Drew Miller ($0.838m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m)
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($7.000m) / Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.250m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $65,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,292,045; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $707,955

This would be a nice roster...I would be happy with this and give Kenny his credit due. I don't NEED Franzenlina traded, he may prove useful 2nd or 3rd line, I would just LIKE to see him gone. +10 for not having Hudler on your team!