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Guest blueadams

What's REALLY going to happen this off-season?

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"My message today is, I still think we've got the nucleus of a very good team," Holland said. "I think we've got a nucleus that can compete with the other teams in the league, but it's tough. It's parity. It's going to be hard to make the playoffs. We're going to try to make some change, but to think that we're going to kind of change the entire makeup and we're going to get tougher and we're going to get grittier, whatever things you think that we lack -- I don't know if that's possible over one summer. That's a drafting plan, that's a free-agent plan, that's a trading plan, that's a development plan."

http://www.freep.com/article/20120424/SPORTS05/120424056/Wings-clean-out-lockers-Lidstrom-Stuart-Holmstrom-unsure-futures

Holland is already backpedaling about making the changes he needed to begin making two years ago.

Holland will try, won't get anything done get replaced next summer. The Wings will bring Yzerman to rebuild as they open the new arena. No I am not spoiled, if he tried to address what was obvious a couple years ago and failed I could live with that. Not doing anything especially at the trade deadline. He is all about excuses.

I am not only on the band wagon, I am driving the truck. Fire Holland.

Dale Tallon turned over 2/3 of his roster in a year. Look at how much better the Panthers are now.

Paul Holmgren traded away his two cornerstones, Mike Richards and Jeff Carter, not long after signing them to long-term contracts. The Flyers didn't miss a beat.

If Holland thinks it's too hard to make changes and can't do that much in a summer, A, he's wrong, and B, maybe he needs to find a new line of work.

I'm the guy sitting next to you in the truck, holding the map.

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I Guarantee we are not getting either parise or sutter.

Forgive me if I consider you unable to render such a guarantee.

Shaman and MabusIncarnate like this

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"My message today is, I still think we've got the nucleus of a very good team," Holland said. "I think we've got a nucleus that can compete with the other teams in the league, but it's tough. It's parity. It's going to be hard to make the playoffs. We're going to try to make some change, but to think that we're going to kind of change the entire makeup and we're going to get tougher and we're going to get grittier, whatever things you think that we lack -- I don't know if that's possible over one summer. That's a drafting plan, that's a free-agent plan, that's a trading plan, that's a development plan."

I love how he thinks we're all idiots.

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Parise would be a good addition, but that lineup the OP posted would be lucky to get out of the second round.

Sadly, I think that's the best lineup we can hope for next season.

centcougar07 likes this

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All these threads are ******* me up....seriously now, what does everyone think will happen?

Nick returns. Stuart walks. Quincey re-ups. Hudler walks, Nyquist takes his spot in the top 6. We don't sign Ryan Suter. Instead, we get Dennis Wideman, pair him with Kronwall. He's Stuart's replacement. We do sign Zach Parise. He plays on a line with Datsyuk and Nyquist. Flip and Franzen flank Zetterberg on the second (or first, whatever) scoring line. Helm centers Bertuzzi and Cleary on the third line. Holmer retires. {Miller - Abdelkader - Eaves} is our fourth unit.

Sounds sort of realistic, right? Unfortunately, I think even this much is the moon for Ken Holland. But I can't bring myself to describe a lineup with a retained Jiri Hudler.

Edited by Dabura

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Forgive me if I consider you unable to render such a guarantee.

I just find it hard to believe i really hope we can get parise I think that would be huge.. I just can't see Kenny outbidding other interested teams. But I really hope I eat crow on this one.

MabusIncarnate likes this

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Feel I need to be clear here. The OP is about what I think Holland is going to do. If you want to know what I think he should do...

#1) Players to let go:

-A) Brad Stuart. Sounds like we don't have a choice.

-B) Kyle Quincey. Stupid/sucks that we gave up a 1st rd. pick for him. Not good enough to be worth 3 and a half mil a season.

-C) Jiri Hudler. Not talented enough for the top six. Too expensive for the third line.

-D) Tomas Holmstrom. If I could fit him in I would have.

-E) Justin Abdelkader. Similar situation to Eaves. Would like to have him back, but couldn't squeeze him in.

#2) Players to send down:

-A) Riley Sheahan. Not ready.

#3) Players to trade (for picks, prospects, nothing, whatever...place on waivers and send to GR if necessary):

-A) Dan Cleary. He has no offensive skill, never has, never will. He's a third/fourth line winger. He's not physical. He's losing speed with age and injuries. 2.8 mil is way too much to pay him when a guy like Jan Mursak can give you essentially the same thing for 0.6 mil. Great guy, but this is a business.

-B) Todd Bertuzzi. Not talented enough offensively for our top six. Not talented enough defensively for our bottom six. He doesn't fit in, at any price. Resigning him was a mistake. No need to live with it.

-C) Patrick Eaves. Like him. Good player. Good price. Just didn't fit into my plan. Sorry.

-D) Jakub Kindl. Simply not an NHL-level player.

#4) Players to call up:

-A) Brendan Smith. Ready.

-B) Tomas Tatar. Hopefully ready, need a third scoring line.

-C) Jan Mursak. Fine as a 4th liner.

#5) Players to sign:

-A) Zach Parise. 7.0 mil. No explanation needed.

-B) Ryan Suter. 6.0 mil. No explanation needed.

-C) Nick Lidstrom. 6.0 mil. Hope he takes less, not expecting him to.

-D) Alexander Semin. 5.0 mil. I don't care that he's a *****, our whole team is *******, that's not our style. I don't care if he slacks in the regular season. I just need him to play hard in the playoffs. This team needs guys that can put the puck in the net, period. Semin is one of the top 5 most talented players in the game. I'll take the risk, gladly.

-E) Darren Helm. 1.4 mil. Gave him a 0.5 mil raise.

-F) Chris Conner. 0.5 mil. 13th forward.

-G) Doug Janik. 0.5 mil. 7th defenseman.

It works cap-wise:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER

My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS

Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Zach Parise ($7.000m)

Alexander Semin ($5.000m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)

Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Darren Helm ($1.400m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m)

Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Drew Miller ($0.838m)

Chris Conner ($0.500m) /

DEFENSEMEN

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan Suter ($6.000m)

Nicklas Lidstrom ($5.900m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)

Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Ian White ($2.875m)

Doug Janik ($0.500m) /

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)

Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,223,712; BONUSES: $247,500

CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $76,288

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Dale Tallon turned over 2/3 of his roster in a year. Look at how much better the Panthers are now.

Paul Holmgren traded away his two cornerstones, Mike Richards and Jeff Carter, not long after signing them to long-term contracts. The Flyers didn't miss a beat.

If Holland thinks it's too hard to make changes and can't do that much in a summer, A, he's wrong, and B, maybe he needs to find a new line of work.

I'm the guy sitting next to you in the truck, holding the map.

Hollands problem is, he likes this team. He refuses to ditch certain players who haven't shown up that last few playoffs. He rewards veterans with contract just because they were/are loyal to him. He let's Nick Lidstrom tell HIM what he wants to make. He is still waiting for "playoff Franzen" to show up and he still believes that UFA's will flock to Detroit, just because of their history PLUS they will more than welcome accepting 1/3 less salary for that same reason...

..all this talk and all these threads about what will/should happen, realistic or not, I just don't think Holland is capable of rebuilding this team. I have a strange feeling that Scotty was the one to woo Hossa here in 08-09, plus he probably was the one to orchestrate the Hasek deal in 01-02. I have yet to see Holland make a huge impact signing or trade on his own. If he gets one or both of Suter and Parise, I will start singing his praises, but I just have a feeling that he will low-ball both of them and try telling them, "Hey, we're Hockeytown, it's your honor to be contacted by me and to be here..." (exaggerating of course, but I realistically won't be surprised if noone of any impact comes here via UFA or trade...and that is sad, because he is ruining my love for the best sport and team in the world...)

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I just find it hard to believe i really hope we can get parise I think that would be huge.. I just can't see Kenny outbidding other interested teams. But I really hope I eat crow on this one.

That is just it, he has some weird fixation on not offending his "loyal" players...he will tell Zach that noone can make more than Zetterberg (or Datsyuk, whichever one is making the most) and then Parise will go elsewhere because someone else will offer him $8M plus. I think Holland should offer Parise one of those 10 year contracts worth between $7M and $8M per. But he will worry too much about what Lidstrom will want to do and give him whatever he wants, then he will worry too much about what Datsyuk wants when his contract is up...Datsyuk ain't signing anywhere else but here, I fricking hope Holland shows his balls this summer and lives up to his "Best GM in the NHL" moniker...

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#1) Players to let go:

-A) Brad Stuart. Sounds like we don't have a choice.

-B) Kyle Quincey. Stupid/sucks that we gave up a 1st rd. pick for him. Not good enough to be worth 3 and a half mil a season.

-C) Jiri Hudler. Not talented enough for the top six. Too expensive for the third line.

-D) Tomas Holmstrom. If I could fit him in I would have.

-E) Justin Abdelkader. Similar situation to Eaves. Would like to have him back, but couldn't squeeze him in.

...only let Quincey walk if Lidstrom re-signs, if he retires, you gotta sign Quincey , but ya not worth $3.5M, give him 5yrs @ $3M.

I am re-signing Abby at a small raise. The rest I agree with you.

#2) Players to send down:

-A) Riley Sheahan. Not ready.

No issues here, just use him as an injury call up along with Tatar.

#3) Players to trade (for picks, prospects, nothing, whatever...place on waivers and send to GR if necessary):

-A) Dan Cleary. He has no offensive skill, never has, never will. He's a third/fourth line winger. He's not physical. He's losing speed with age and injuries. 2.8 mil is way too much to pay him when a guy like Jan Mursak can give you essentially the same thing for 0.6 mil. Great guy, but this is a business.

-B) Todd Bertuzzi. Not talented enough offensively for our top six. Not talented enough defensively for our bottom six. He doesn't fit in, at any price. Resigning him was a mistake. No need to live with it.

-C) Patrick Eaves. Like him. Good player. Good price. Just didn't fit into my plan. Sorry.

-D) Jakub Kindl. Simply not an NHL-level player.

I can live without Cleary and Kindl, but I am trading Franzen as well. Plus I think Bertuzzi is going to excel on the 3rd line. Eaves is fine with me as well for the 3rd or 4th. I am also trading Mursak, he'll need to pass waivers to be sent up and down and we have two or three others that can fill his role on the team that don't have to pass waivers when sent back down.

#4) Players to call up:

-A) Brendan Smith. Ready.

-B) Tomas Tatar. Hopefully ready, need a third scoring line.

-C) Jan Mursak. Fine as a 4th liner.

Agree, except for Mursak as explained above...

#5) Players to sign:

-A) Zach Parise. 7.0 mil. No explanation needed.

-B) Ryan Suter. 6.0 mil. No explanation needed.

-C) Nick Lidstrom. 6.0 mil. Hope he takes less, not expecting him to.

-D) Alexander Semin. 5.0 mil. I don't care that he's a *****, our whole team is *******, that's not our style. I don't care if he slacks in the regular season. I just need him to play hard in the playoffs. This team needs guys that can put the puck in the net, period. Semin is one of the top 5 most talented players in the game. I'll take the risk, gladly.

-E) Darren Helm. 1.4 mil. Gave him a 0.5 mil raise.

-F) Chris Conner. 0.5 mil. 13th forward.

-G) Doug Janik. 0.5 mil. 7th defenseman.

I agree with these signing's except I think Lidstrom should retire or tell Kenny he will sign for whatever it takes to ice a winner...I think Helm is around $1.2M though and he needs to be signed for at least 5 years, same goes for Suter and Parise, they should be 10 year deals. Semin should be 1 or 2 to see how he works out, but I think he will do great with Datsyuk.

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Well since this is the realist thread, I'll be realer than real and say that hypothetically we don't make any moves for anyone. If so our team could look like this...

Bert-Pav-Franzen

Flip-Z-Nyquist

Cleary-Helm-Eaves/Miller

Mursak-Abby-Eaves/Miller

Lids-White

Kronwall-Quincey

Ericsson-Kindl/Smith

Kindl/Smith

While I don't know if it would win the cup or not I think it looks better than the team we fielded during the playoffs this year. Any thoughts?

55fan and centcougar07 like this

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Hollands problem is, he likes this team. He refuses to ditch certain players who haven't shown up that last few playoffs. He rewards veterans with contract just because they were/are loyal to him. He let's Nick Lidstrom tell HIM what he wants to make. He is still waiting for "playoff Franzen" to show up and he still believes that UFA's will flock to Detroit, just because of their history PLUS they will more than welcome accepting 1/3 less salary for that same reason...

Couldn't agree more. And after hearing Lidstrom's comments from the other day regarding the team, I think his decision whether or not to return will depend on how much change takes place this summer... and I think it's the less, the better for Lidstrom. I don't think he wants to play with a bunch of new guys, he'd rather have as much of this team back as possible. And I think that's what he's going to get. Holland seems to not want to lose Lidstrom (can't say I blame him, but...) and will do whatever it takes to retain him, including putting the band back together.

-Stuart out, Smith in full-time.

-Nyquist may replace one of Hudler, Emmerton, or Mursak.

-Conklin out, MacDonald in if healthy, otherwise enter a veteran backup.

Meet your new Wings, same as the old Wings...

And, "We like our team" is the new "Our power play is our enforcer." PUUUUUKE.

Edited by joshy207
Detroit # 1 Fan likes this

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Couldn't agree more. And after hearing Lidstrom's comments from the other day regarding the team, I think his decision whether or not to return will depend on how much change takes place this summer... and I think it's the less, the better for Lidstrom. I don't think he wants to play with a bunch of new guys, he'd rather have as much of this team back as possible. And I think that's what he's going to get. Holland seems to not want to lose Lidstrom (can't say I blame him, but...) and will do whatever it takes to retain him, including putting the band back together.

-Stuart out, Smith in full-time.

-Nyquist may replace one of Hudler, Emmerton, or Mursak.

-Conklin out, MacDonald in if healthy, otherwise enter a veteran backup.

Meet your new Wings, same as the old Wings...

And, "We like our team" is the new "Our power play is our enforcer." PUUUUUKE.

ah yes, but unlike the song, we WILL get fooled again.

All the "inside talk" about Wings having the track on Parise and making him and Suter their number 1 priorities...we will get overexcited only to be let down yet again...

Change it had to come,

We knew it all along,

We were liberated from the Wings fall that's all,

But the Team looks just the same

And history ain't changed

And Ken Holland Likes His Team The way it is!

Just like yesterday

And I'll get on my knees and pray

We've ALL been fooled again!

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So I'm just aggregating from all the different posts here, but it looks like you guys are suggesting this team gets rid of Abby, Eaves, Emmerton, Hudler, Holmstrom, Bertuzzi, Lidstrom, Quincey, White, Kindl, Franzen,Cleary, Mursak, Conklin, McDonald and Stuart in various combinations. Leaving Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Howard, Miller, Helm, Filppula, Kronwall and Ericsson. Well that's not MUCH of a turnover.

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ah yes, but unlike the song, we WILL get fooled again.

All the "inside talk" about Wings having the track on Parise and making him and Suter their number 1 priorities...we will get overexcited only to be let down yet again...

Change it had to come,

We knew it all along,

We were liberated from the Wings fall that's all,

But the Team looks just the same

And history ain't changed

And Ken Holland Likes His Team The way it is!

Just like yesterday

And I'll get on my knees and pray

We've ALL been fooled again!

Come on man, I see another The Who song...

Out here in Kenny's fields

He makes phone calls and gets a feel

He doesn't need to be forgiven

He knows signing Parise is right

He has Suter in his sights

This is how Kenny makes his livin'

Free Agent Wasteland....

Living in a Free Agent Wasteland

Free Agent Wasteland...

THEY'RE ALL WASTED!

Edited by Hatethedrake!

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One of the things that's, you know, really easy to forget is how competitive the league has become, I mean in terms of teams and contending. Now, is it parity? Is it, you know, is it that the talent is just that much better? I don't claim to know, and I'd say anyone who does, it's probably not true. There's no crystal ball with this kind of thing. I'll be honest, sometimes, in certain situations, it can seem like a crap shoot. So, you know, as a GM, you have to be prepared to maybe, where you would have, you know, signed that key piece ten years ago, I think as a GM in today's NHL, there are more considerations that have to be made. Speaking for me personally and this specific organization, we have a great tradition, obviously. But, you know, does that mean we go out and spend all the money we've saved for x, y, and z player? Well, my question would be, you know, first, are these guys we like, and if not, could we perhaps grow to like them? Because, let's face it, just because they're perfect, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a good fit. I can tell you from experience, things do not always go as planned. In fact, I'd go so far as to say they rarely do. But then, I guess that's life. I think we're at a place now in our developmental process where we can kind of take a step back and take it all in, you know? Just take a good hard look at our prospect pool and maybe, you know, for all we know we already have a Zach Parise hiding right under our noses. We like our team.

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No Suter =( But would Garrison be a good addition? Would he sign for that little?

<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER

My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS

Zach Parise ($8.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)

Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Justin Abdelkader ($0.950m) / Danny Cleary ($2.800m)

Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Darren Helm ($1.250m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)

Riley Sheahan ($0.900m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) /

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom ($5.500m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)

Ian White ($2.875m) / Jason Garrison ($1.450m)

Kyle Quincey ($3.250m) / Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / Brendan Smith ($0.875m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)

Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $65,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,792,295; BONUSES: $222,500

CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $218,715

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Couldn't agree more. And after hearing Lidstrom's comments from the other day regarding the team, I think his decision whether or not to return will depend on how much change takes place this summer

Incorrect. He will make his decision before July 1st.

Rick D likes this

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Incorrect. He will make his decision before July 1st.

I know. I'm saying, if Holland says he's keeping most of the team and making only minor changes, then I think Lidstrom will be more inclined to return. But if Holland says he's going to trade 3 or 4 guys away and not re-sign Hudler and Holmstrom, I think he'll be more inclined to walk away.

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Reading between the lines I think Odin (as some of you are calling him), has put the pressure on Kenny too. This offseason will be huge if we get the missing pieces and he believes we can compete for this cup, 5 will be b ack if not we saw his last game without effort from 80 % of our players, sad but thats what I think will happen.

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