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ogreslayer

2012 Lockout Watch

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NHL/NHLPA/AHL strike special waiver period for players on two-way contracts:

Sbnation

Pardon my ignorance with current contracts, but who all will this apply to? Is Brunner screwed because he chose to go back to Switzerland until the AHL season started?

Brunner's waiver exempt this season so it's a non-issue.

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So with 3 days left to negotiate, the NHL makes its final offer and gives an ultimatum.

If Bettman ever wonders why he always gets booed, he's got his answer.

Link? Source?

I am trying to find a legit source that says it was an "ultimatum". So far, all I can find are unreliable twitter feeds from people who weren't there.

EDIT: This is the closest I have found. http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/49008443/ns/sports-nhl/

Not really an ultimatum. Hell, at the end of every CBA, all deals go out the window anyway.

Edited by Nightfall

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Pardon my ignorance with current contracts, but who all will this apply to? Is Brunner screwed because he chose to go back to Switzerland until the AHL season started?

From what I've seen, Brunner will go back to Switzerland for a few weeks, and then to GR for the duration of the lockout. I haven't heard anyone mentioning that this agreement would change that plan.

Link? Source?

I am trying to find a legit source that says it was an "ultimatum". So far, all I can find are unreliable twitter feeds from people who weren't there.

Aaron Ward was directly quoting Bettman's response during the League's presser in the NHL offices after the meeting completed.

https://twitter.com/...958367116414977

Bettman,'if union doesn't accept NHL proposal by 15th it is off the table'

As well, Tom Gulitti, a beat reporter for the North Jersey Record, was at the presser, and he's confirmed the league's "ultimatum" as well.

https://twitter.com/TGfireandice/status/245962955454283778

Bettman said league's latest proposal will come off the table if deal isn't reached before Saturday midnight.

https://twitter.com/TGfireandice/status/245963464928018433

Bettman said offer would come off table because damage is already being done to NHL business and there would be more if there is a lockout.

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Aaron Ward was directly quoting Bettman's response during the League's presser in the NHL offices after the meeting completed.

https://twitter.com/...958367116414977

After any CBA expiration, all deals are typically off the table. I thought that Bettman said "Sign this, or else we will ask for a 60-40 split in revenues" or something along those lines.

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After any CBA expiration, all deals are typically off the table. I thought that Bettman said "Sign this, or else we will ask for a 60-40 split in revenues" or something along those lines.

There's no legal precedent that says the league HAS to pull the offer once the CBA expires and the players are locked out. This is simply Bettman and the BoG trying to pressure the league into singing now.

At it's core, Bettman is playing the part of a car salesman. "My manager might not give you this good a deal if you don't agree to buy it today"

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They'll keep them locked out for years of thats what it takes to "win". They are all billionaires and have other sources of income in the mean time.

This is why the lockout usually works. It boils down to who can do without the money the longest, which is usually the owners. Sure players can go to other leagues and get paid, but most won't make what they made in the NHL. All the while the clock on their prime playing years keeps ticking away. They have the most to lose and the owners know it.

esteef

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Guest Johnz96   
Guest Johnz96

I agree Bettman is the worst thing SO far, if the fans stop watching then that becomes the worst thing to happen to the sport.

We aren't facing a lockout because the fans put money in their pockets, we're facing a lockout because everyone wants the bigger piece of the pie. If we stop putting money into the league then yea, sure, the pie gets smaller but it's not going to change the fact that people want the bigger cut. This lockout would be looming if revenue had been down for the past 7 years too.

The NHL would never have had a lockout without Bettman and we are now going on the 3rd one with him.

Link? Source?

I am trying to find a legit source that says it was an "ultimatum". So far, all I can find are unreliable twitter feeds from people who weren't there.

EDIT: This is the closest I have found. http://nbcsports.msn.../ns/sports-nhl/

Not really an ultimatum. Hell, at the end of every CBA, all deals go out the window anyway.

http://watch.tsn.ca/nhl/clip759512#clip759512

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It certainly would be nice to hear about the details of these proposals.

From the way it sounds.....both sides are proposing "my way or the highway" with no concessions. Not really a way to bargain.

Edited by Nightfall

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Apparently talk of a lockout has made Emmerton lose his mind..

@DetroitRedWings: READ: @Cemmer48 talks changing his number (and Twitter hanlde) from 48 to 25. http://t.co/4ucJgjoS http://t.co/9Z3ieMMn

@cemmer48: Btw @D_Mac25 I was thinking of starting a band called Grinder, wanna be the lead singer?

@D_Mac25: @cemmer48 here's the deal u can have my jersey # just stay away from my 19 yr old daughter & I'll sing for the band if you play the keyboard

Maybe I'm overly sensitive with general hockey related rage thanks to the impending lockout, but I don't like this one bit! 25 belongs to Mac, baby!

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Link? Source?

I am trying to find a legit source that says it was an "ultimatum". So far, all I can find are unreliable twitter feeds from people who weren't there.

EDIT: This is the closest I have found. http://nbcsports.msn.../ns/sports-nhl/

Not really an ultimatum. Hell, at the end of every CBA, all deals go out the window anyway.

No they don't. The current CBA of course officially expires, but there is nothing that says any proposal being made by either side also goes out the window.

When you make a counter proposal and say the union has until the 15th to accept or the deal will be removed, that is an ultimatum.

Listening to Bettman talk in the press conference, in between all his cheap shots at the union, he does sound like there may be the possibility of further negotiation before the deadline. But it's hard to know if that's sincere since his main purpose seemed to be spinning things that the union hadn't conceded anything, the league had "meaningful movement" and tried to make it sound as if the union is the hold up in further negotiations. All that after Bettman said "negotiating publicly doesn't help the process."

The difference in professionalism and tone of the press conferences held by Bettman and Fehr is amazing.

After any CBA expiration, all deals are typically off the table. I thought that Bettman said "Sign this, or else we will ask for a 60-40 split in revenues" or something along those lines.

Again, that is false. The CBA expires, but that has no effect on proposals unless Bettman and the owners link the two, which they've done.

And the implication of pulling any offer off the table is obviously that later offers will be even less favorable. By giving an expiration date on a deadline, there is the implicit threat that things will get worse later.

It certainly would be nice to hear about the details of these proposals.

From the way it sounds.....both sides are proposing "my way or the highway" with no concessions. Not really a way to bargain.

It's beyond me that someone could watch Bettman's press conference and think this is equally both sides fault.

He takes several shots at the union, then later lectures about "not negotiating publicly." And even goes back to blame the players for the lost season in 2004.

When asked directly if it was a final offer, Bettman refused to answer and once again fell back on his "not negotiating publicly" dodge. He also said repeatedly revenue sharing is not the issue.

http://watch.tsn.ca/...9512#clip759512

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The difference in professionalism and tone of the press conferences held by Bettman and Fehr is amazing.

Lol, it really is. Its like watching how a normal person interacts with people versus how the slimiest of all venomous vile-filled scumbag snakes tries to deal with people. The difference is staggering. I wonder if Gary Bettman is even human... lol

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Lol, it really is. Its like watching how a normal person interacts with people versus how the slimiest of all venomous vile-filled scumbag snakes tries to deal with people. The difference is staggering. I wonder if Gary Bettman is even human... lol

This is part of what infuriates me--is he *trying* to come across as such an insufferable douchebag? If so, to what end? If I were an owner, I would want to be represented by someone who could communicate effectively and be perceived by the players and public as competent and in charge--not a smarmy, weasely bully with a Napolean complex. I just don't get how he still has a job.

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I don't understand why everyone is blaming Bettman alone? Why this guy Don Fehr and his little brother are not to blame too? Is this because Bettman salary is two times greater than Fehr's.

NHL has been ready for negotiation long before New Year 2012, it's been said too many times. Fehr responded once saying talks will start sometime after All-Star break. Well he was right, talks started well after All-Star break.

My understanding, this guy deliberatly waited until late August to start negotiation. He understand that NHL has everything to loose while he has already stopped drawing his salary on July 1st. He wanted to push NHL to the limit, use sense of urgency to negitiate in hes and (maybe) players favour.

Ferh and his little brother earned to be blamed at least as much as Bettman.

Edited by ami

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Apparently talk of a lockout has made Emmerton lose his mind..

@DetroitRedWings: READ: @Cemmer48 talks changing his number (and Twitter hanlde) from 48 to 25. http://t.co/4ucJgjoS http://t.co/9Z3ieMMn

@cemmer48: Btw @D_Mac25 I was thinking of starting a band called Grinder, wanna be the lead singer?

@D_Mac25: @cemmer48 here's the deal u can have my jersey # just stay away from my 19 yr old daughter & I'll sing for the band if you play the keyboard

Maybe I'm overly sensitive with general hockey related rage thanks to the impending lockout, but I don't like this one bit! 25 belongs to Mac, baby!

Hell no. Emmerton can wear #25 on a different team when we trade him away. 25 will ALWAYS be Darren McCarty.

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It's beyond me that someone could watch Bettman's press conference and think this is equally both sides fault.

He takes several shots at the union, then later lectures about "not negotiating publicly." And even goes back to blame the players for the lost season in 2004.

Its beyond me that someone would watch either of those press conferences and think that one side is doing everything in its power to make sure a season starts while the other is totally at fault in these negotiations. I suppose you have to have your lips firmly planted on the ass of the NHLPA to really come to that conclusion.

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I don't understand why everyone is blaming Bettman alone? Why this guy Don Fehr and his little brother are not to blame too? Is this because Bettman salary is two times greater than Fehr's.

NHL has been ready for negotiation long before New Year 2012, it's been said too many times. Fehr responded once saying talks will start sometime after All-Star break. Well he was right, talks started well after All-Star break.

My understanding, this guy deliberatly waited until late August to start negotiation. He understand that NHL has everything to loose while he has already stopped drawing his salary on July 1st. He wanted to push NHL to the limit, use sense of urgency to negitiate in hes and (maybe) players favour.

Ferh and his little brother earned to be blamed at least as much as Bettman.

What does it matter when they were "Ready for negotiation?" There's been plenty of time to negotiate this past week and they haven't been doing it.

We're three days from the lockout and they're still not even talking about the same core issue. It's not about the timeline.

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Guest Johnz96   
Guest Johnz96

Bettman is the worst thing to ever happen to the game of hockey

Edited by Johnz96

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Its beyond me that someone would watch either of those press conferences and think that one side is doing everything in its power to make sure a season starts while the other is totally at fault in these negotiations. I suppose you have to have your lips firmly planted on the ass of the NHLPA to really come to that conclusion.

Are you incapable of responding to people who disagree with you without changing their words and insulting them?

Though you seem unable to grasp the concept, there are more positions than:

1) agreeing with your "it's everybody's fault equally stance"

and

2) the union is absolutely perfect! This is completely 100% the leagues fault.

I never said that one side was doing everything in its power to make sure the season started. I never said one side is totally at fault.

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I don't understand why everyone is blaming Bettman alone? Why this guy Don Fehr and his little brother are not to blame too? Is this because Bettman salary is two times greater than Fehr's.

NHL has been ready for negotiation long before New Year 2012, it's been said too many times. Fehr responded once saying talks will start sometime after All-Star break. Well he was right, talks started well after All-Star break.

My understanding, this guy deliberatly waited until late August to start negotiation. He understand that NHL has everything to loose while he has already stopped drawing his salary on July 1st. He wanted to push NHL to the limit, use sense of urgency to negitiate in hes and (maybe) players favour.

Ferh and his little brother earned to be blamed at least as much as Bettman.

I would be careful when talking about anything that isn't "pro NHLPA" around here. You see, the common theme is that the NHLPA has done everything within its power to prevent a work stoppage. Their proposal was like King Arthur pulling Excalibur from the stone, it was destined to be the solution. Oh, and any fault of the NHLPA is not really a fault at all. Remember, there is no spoon.

At least that is the current mentality from many in this thread.

In reality, both sides are at fault, with the NHL being more at fault for being pricks than the NHLPA. In the end, neither are willing to budge from their positions. The NHLPA is going to come forward to profess their solidarity, and the owners are going to lock them out. The PR battle has already been won by the players, and the NHL will get a brunt of the insults. Nevermind the facts that you pointed out. The NHLPA has done no wrong to these people, and that is almost as disgusting to me as the initial NHL proposal to the players which was downright insulting and disgusting in its own right.

In short, screw the NHL and NHLPA. They don't deserve your loyalty.

Are you incapable of responding to people who disagree with you without changing their words and insulting them?

Though you seem unable to grasp the concept, there are more positions than:

1) agreeing with your "it's everybody's fault equally stance"

and

2) the union is absolutely perfect! This is completely 100% the leagues fault.

Then speak your mind on both sides instead of just chirping the typical "ownership's fault" that you are so adept at mentioning. You seem to be speaking option #2 quite adeptly.

EDIT: For the record, I believe its 60-40 at fault with the NHL being moreso than the league.

Edited by Nightfall

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Guest Johnz96   
Guest Johnz96

I don't understand why everyone is blaming Bettman alone? Why this guy Don Fehr and his little brother are not to blame too? Is this because Bettman salary is two times greater than Fehr's.

NHL has been ready for negotiation long before New Year 2012, it's been said too many times. Fehr responded once saying talks will start sometime after All-Star break. Well he was right, talks started well after All-Star break.

My understanding, this guy deliberatly waited until late August to start negotiation. He understand that NHL has everything to loose while he has already stopped drawing his salary on July 1st. He wanted to push NHL to the limit, use sense of urgency to negitiate in hes and (maybe) players favour.

Ferh and his little brother earned to be blamed at least as much as Bettman.

Bettman is more influential than any one of the owners. He got the job by selling the owners on his ideas for growing the league and the necessity of parity (parody?) to make it work.The lockouts are all part of his mastermind plan. I think he actually thinks he is doing it for the good of hockey but is really doing it because of ambition and his love of power (a by-product of having been born so short and lacking any charisma).

Of more than 600 players only 15 make as much as Bettman.

The Suter and Parise UFA signing is a perfect example of why there is a threat of a lockout this season. The owners had a bidding war for them, they offered them the contracts they got. Of course they will take the most money offered, most people would. The owners give out these offers and then punish the players and fans by reneging on their offers by demanding they take a pay cut or lock them (and us) out for their stupidity.

Puck Daddy article with Datsyuk quote

"I wouldn't say that defensive hockey rules, but it is true that it's getting more difficult to score goals now. I think we have to go back to the goalie equipment size, the way it was before Bettman became commisiioner. I think that will make hockey more interesting. Goaltenders are already quitee big and tall, over 6 feet. Add to that oversized equipment and they become so big that it becomes extremely difficult to score."

Bettman has changed the way the game is played to make it easier for weaker teams to win games for the sake of parity. He rendered the game almost unwatchable for a decade with all the obstruction allowed so the less skilled teams have a better chance Major offensive records will never be broken and the game is a lot more fun to play and watch when it isn't so defensive.

This is going to be the 3rd lockout under his command. A lot of people say he has done good for the league, if that is true why do we need another lockout?

Edited by Johnz96

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I would be careful when talking about anything that isn't "pro NHLPA" around here. You see, the common theme is that the NHLPA has done everything within its power to prevent a work stoppage. Their proposal was like King Arthur pulling Excalibur from the stone, it was destined to be the solution. Oh, and any fault of the NHLPA is not really a fault at all. Remember, there is no spoon.

At least that is the current mentality from many in this thread.

In reality, both sides are at fault, with the NHL being more at fault for being pricks than the NHLPA. In the end, neither are willing to budge from their positions. The NHLPA is going to come forward to profess their solidarity, and the owners are going to lock them out. The PR battle has already been won by the players, and the NHL will get a brunt of the insults. Nevermind the facts that you pointed out. The NHLPA has done no wrong to these people, and that is almost as disgusting to me as the initial NHL proposal to the players which was downright insulting and disgusting in its own right.

In short, screw the NHL and NHLPA. They don't deserve your loyalty.

Then speak your mind on both sides instead of just chirping the typical "ownership's fault" that you are so adept at mentioning. You seem to be speaking option #2 quite adeptly.

I have been speaking my mind.

You repeatedly misinterpret and misconstrue what I and others have said in this thread.

Based on your responses, you apparently can only understand that it is a completely 50/50 split or it is 100% the other sides fault. Anything in between gets lost on you.

I've highlighted your most recent overdramatizations.

Right now the ownership is the most glaring problem in the negotiations. I've already touched on some issues the union needs to move on. But those are more detailed points that the negotiations haven't even reached yet.

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I still watch that together we can video over and cover again.... I know it's going to be a lockout but

I hope the players don't settle... Guys like Datsyuk shouldn't have to settle when they could make more money in their home town.... Time for the owners to pony up. There will be a lock out, the players have the upperhand, they are organized and determined an I don't blame them.. They took their pay cut for the good of the league in 05... Now it's the owners time...

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What does it matter when they were "Ready for negotiation?" There's been plenty of time to negotiate this past week and they haven't been doing it.

We're three days from the lockout and they're still not even talking about the same core issue. It's not about the timeline.

Of course it is about timeline.

I can reasonably assume, NHL offer would be the same in January, can't I?

Then, instead of having 4-5 weeks to ping-pong offers, they would have 30+ weeks.

However, PA decided to play blitz.

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Then speak your mind on both sides instead of just chirping the typical "ownership's fault" that you are so adept at mentioning. You seem to be speaking option #2 quite adeptly.

EDIT: For the record, I believe its 60-40 at fault with the NHL being moreso than the league.

Perhaps you should also do the same as you suggest. From all your comments here I would never in a million years have guessed you think the league is 60% to blame. From all of your comments, I would have guess you thought it was about 80-90% the players fault.

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