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frankgrimes

If we fail to reload with top UFAs we should?

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Schultz / Canada related stuff I've seen for people who have been asking about it..

Andy Strickland via twitter: Justin Schultz is expected to sign with a Canadian team, the Maple Leafs, Canucks or Oilers. Cory Pronman via twitter: If Schultz sign with the Maple Leafs or Canucks, he’d become their best prospect. He likely wouldn’t be for the Oilers, if they draft Ryan Murray, it would be debatable.

Lance Hornby of the Toronto Sun: The Maple Leafs are expected to be one of the leading teams after Justin Schultz. Brian Burke drafted him. The Ducks may look to trade his rights before June 24th.

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I don't know if you can call someone who gets more ice-time than any of the Wings forwards a third liner

Why? So what if he gets more minutes than any Wings player your point is? He was the third line center on the Penguins before Crosby's concussion problems no? I don't get your point. Hence he was playing second line minutes during the playoffs and while Crosby was out. He's 24 years old and he's a stud defensively plus can he can rack up some points as well.

Best third line center in the game imo. I don't care how many minutes you play ffs. The fact is he's playing center behind Malkin and Crosby and puts up the numbers he does says a lot. Also he always seems to have a knack at usually being big against our team.

I would love to have him in the Winged Wheel jersey.

Edited by St. Michael (the Red Wing)
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Schultz / Canada related stuff I've seen for people who have been asking about it..

Andy Strickland via twitter: Justin Schultz is expected to sign with a Canadian team, the Maple Leafs, Canucks or Oilers. Cory Pronman via twitter: If Schultz sign with the Maple Leafs or Canucks, he’d become their best prospect. He likely wouldn’t be for the Oilers, if they draft Ryan Murray, it would be debatable.

Lance Hornby of the Toronto Sun: The Maple Leafs are expected to be one of the leading teams after Justin Schultz. Brian Burke drafted him. The Ducks may look to trade his rights before June 24th.

I, for the life of me, cannot see why these players want to go places that they are not going to win. Edmonton? Toronto? Canucks about ready to trade their goalie who sees that Vancouver will never win...I can think of 10 other teams outside of Detroit where this kid could go and have a winning career...but whatever. He is gonna go where he wants, but he has really a 5% chance of winning a cup in his career on a Canadian team...sorry Canadian brothers, but the truth is the truth. If these guys don't ever want to win, its on them...

Why? So what if he gets more minutes than any Wings player your point is? He was the third line center on the Penguins before Crosby's concussion problems no? I don't get your point. Hence he was playing second line minutes during the playoffs and while Crosby was out. He's 24 years old and he's a stud defensively plus can he can rack up some points as well.

Best third line center in the game imo. I don't care how many minutes you play ffs. The fact is he's playing center behind Malkin and Crosby and puts up the numbers he does says a lot. Also he always seems to have a knack at usually being big against our team.

I would love to have him in the Winged Wheel jersey.

If you are referring to Jordan Staal, hell ya he would be great to have! He is about the only Pengwhine that I don't hate. I feel sorry for him being stuck on that team...

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Yes I was talking about Jordan Staal. :)

Totally agree, he could come in here and actually become a 2nd line center allowing Pav and Z to get back together. He is definitely out of Pit soon, if Crosby signs the $9M and with Malkin due up in a couple of years there just wont be enough cash in Pit for Mr. Staal...I don't see Holland trading for him, but if he makes UFA after this season, I can imagine he would be high on the list (along with everyone else's list) to get...

Just imagine this....Holland lands both Parise/Suter this year, gets Pav, Val, Helm and Abby re-signed for the rest of there career's and then lands Staal next year, I would say the future would be pretty set in Hockeytown for a long time!

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Totally agree, he could come in here and actually become a 2nd line center allowing Pav and Z to get back together. He is definitely out of Pit soon, if Crosby signs the $9M and with Malkin due up in a couple of years there just wont be enough cash in Pit for Mr. Staal...I don't see Holland trading for him, but if he makes UFA after this season, I can imagine he would be high on the list (along with everyone else's list) to get...

Just imagine this....Holland lands both Parise/Suter this year, gets Pav, Val, Helm and Abby re-signed for the rest of there career's and then lands Staal next year, I would say the future would be pretty set in Hockeytown for a long time!

I agree that Pit won't be able to keep him unless he takes a huge discount pending on how much Crosby signs for. But yeah I don't see Kenny trading for him and actually I don't see us getting him period. One could wish cause he's a fantastic player and still young. He's a player we need imo lol but every other team in the league covets too. I can't wait to see what all unfolds this summer.

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No matter the back up plan, he cannot include Hudler or Quincey. Hudler will garner way too much money and Quincey is worth more letting someone else sign him and getting the draft picks than what he brings to the Wings. I'd rather give Nyquist, Hudler's ice-time and re-tool the D entirely before overpaying Quincey, who at $3.125 he made last year was over-payment on this team. On the market, Hudler may be worth $5M and Quincey $4M, but not here. Let them go...We already are over-paying Ericsson for hopes he grows into his contract...

In order to get those draft picks should someone offer sheet Quincey, we'd have to qualify him at a cost of 3.25 million, I wouldn't be surprised to see him sign that deal rather than risk arbitration.

Given that we lost 2 of our top 4 defenceman, there is no chance at all that Quincey is going to be straight let go. The only way that would happen is if he took the Wings to Arbitration and was awarded a big contract.

Also Ericsson's play in the playoffs was encouraging as far as growing into his contract is concerned, he was the best defenceman on the team, during this years very short run.

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No matter the back up plan, he cannot include Hudler or Quincey. Hudler will garner way too much money and Quincey is worth more letting someone else sign him and getting the draft picks than what he brings to the Wings. I'd rather give Nyquist, Hudler's ice-time and re-tool the D entirely before overpaying Quincey, who at $3.125 he made last year was over-payment on this team. On the market, Hudler may be worth $5M and Quincey $4M, but not here. Let them go...We already are over-paying Ericsson for hopes he grows into his contract...

I'd rather go for Schultz (also would like to see where it is said he will only play for a Canadian team) and another proven player like Wideman or Carle than overpay Quincey...

Kronwall - White

Ericsson - Wideman(Carle)

Smith - Schultz

Kindl(or another #7 if you trade Kindl)

Obviously I'd rather see Suter there, but I do not want to see Quincey there no matter what. You couldn't trade him to a team for a 1st/3rd so why not let him sign somewhere and get them by default? Could be a very high 1st next year!

Which is something the Wings haven't had since the early 90's. If we can get a Ryan Murray/Matt Dumba type dman at next years draft, that would be quite nice.

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Nah, I don't even want to think about it. Parise, Suter, Moen, Harding...welcome to the Red Wings! :thumbup:

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER

My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS

Zach Parise ($8.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m)

Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)

Danny Cleary ($2.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.000m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)

Travis Moen ($2.000m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.500m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)

Drew Miller ($0.838m) / Jan Mursak ($0.550m)

DEFENSEMEN

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ryan Suter ($8.000m)

Ian White ($2.875m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.250m)

Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)

Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)

Josh Harding ($1.500m)

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,208,712; BONUSES: $37,500

CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,091,288

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Which is something the Wings haven't had since the early 90's. If we can get a Ryan Murray/Matt Dumba type dman at next years draft, that would be quite nice.

Ya, either way if Holland lets Quincey go RFA, he will probably sign somewhere for around $3.5M so that means in 2013 Holland will have TWO 1st's and TWO 3rd's...Whether or not Quincey signs with a bottom dweller or a contender, it will be nice to have those picks....could be nice trade material as well! It is because of the compensation Holland would receive is why Quincey was a good pick-up. It would not be worth the 1st round pick he gave up to re-sign him, but to get a 1st AND a 3rd back would be great!

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In order to get those draft picks should someone offer sheet Quincey, we'd have to qualify him at a cost of 3.25 million, I wouldn't be surprised to see him sign that deal rather than risk arbitration.

Given that we lost 2 of our top 4 defenceman, there is no chance at all that Quincey is going to be straight let go. The only way that would happen is if he took the Wings to Arbitration and was awarded a big contract.

Also Ericsson's play in the playoffs was encouraging as far as growing into his contract is concerned, he was the best defenceman on the team, during this years very short run.

Because he made $3.125M last season, Holland only has to qualify him for the same $3.125M. Because he made over $1M. Holland must qualify him for that amount to keep him from becoming a UFA, I agree he could accept that offer, but we all know he is worth more on the open market, so if Holland qualified him he remains a RFA and Quincey could sign an offer sheet of from someone and Holland has 7 days to decide whether to match or recieve the compensation...

After a player has signed an offer sheet and submits the necessary paperwork, his prior club has seven days to exercise its Right to First Refusal and match the terms of the offer sheet. There can be no conditions or contingencies in the offer sheet and a player cannot be traded once an offer sheet has been signed.

If the prior club declines its Right to First Refusal, it will be entitled to draft pick compensation based on the annual annual value of the new deal. This is determined by dividing total compensation by the less of the number of years of the offer sheet, or five (this discourages long-term offer sheets in some cases).

The criteria for RFA draft pick compensation in 2011-12 is as follows:

$1,034,249 annual cap hit or less: No compensation

$1,034,249 — $1,567,043: Third-round pick

$1,567,043 — $3,134,088: Second-round pick

$3,134,088 — $4,701,131: First and third-round pick

$4,701,131 — $6,268,175: First, second and third-round pick

$6,268,175 — $7,835,219: Two first-round picks, a second and third

$7,835,219 and higher: Four first-round picks

Teams submitting offer sheets must have the necessary draft picks outlined above and the picks must be their own (cannot be from other teams). It is possible to have multiple signed offer sheets on the table at once as long as the team has the appropriate draft picks.

http://thehockeywriters.com/2011-12-nhl-rfa-compensation-rules/

Also, it would not benefit either of them to go to arbitration...I would hope Quincey would just be a man and go somewhere else and not hold Ken Holland hostage. I am not disagreeing that he is worth more than $3.125M but since Holland is about to attempt to spend upwards of $16M on Parise/Suter, the two draft picks are more valuable. $4M to Quincey would just be wasting Cap space when he is at best a #4/#5 defender and not part of this reload. IF Quincey gets awarded too much money and it hinders our ability to properly reload, he will immediately become the next whipping boy, especially if he plays like the hot garbage he played like last season...for the money, I'd rather keep Kindl around for $800,000 than re-sign Quincey. I can think of a few Defenders who are a better value to this team than Quincey...who can be had for less...

Edited by LeftWinger

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That's what I'd put my money on too. Suter and Semin. I don't like Semin but It's not about what I like.

I agree. Not huge on Semin's work ethic but if playing on Datsyuk's wing and getting set up all season isn't enough to give him a kick in the ass then I don't know what is.

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Because he made $3.125M last season, Holland only has to qualify him for the same $3.125M. Because he made over $1M. Holland must qualify him for that amount to keep him from becoming a UFA, I agree he could accept that offer, but we all know he is worth more on the open market, so if Holland qualified him he remains a RFA and Quincey could sign an offer sheet of from someone and Holland has 7 days to decide whether to match or recieve the compensation...

http://thehockeywrit...ensation-rules/

Also, it would not benefit either of them to go to arbitration...I would hope Quincey would just be a man and go somewhere else and not hold Ken Holland hostage. I am not disagreeing that he is worth more than $3.125M but since Holland is about to attempt to spend upwards of $16M on Parise/Suter, the two draft picks are more valuable. $4M to Quincey would just be wasting Cap space when he is at best a #4/#5 defender and not part of this reload. IF Quincey gets awarded too much money and it hinders our ability to properly reload, he will immediately become the next whipping boy, especially if he plays like the hot garbage he played like last season...for the money, I'd rather keep Kindl around for $800,000 than re-sign Quincey. I can think of a few Defenders who are a better value to this team than Quincey...who can be had for less...

I used Capgeek's qualifying offer calculator so I guess they didn't follow the NHL rules correctly, but you're right on the value its 100% of last years salary not 105%.

You're using last years numbers on RFA compensation though and chances are Quincey will fall into the 2nd round pick category this year rather than the 1st and 3rd rd Picks.

Either way the odds of someone signing Quincey to an offersheet are very slim. There have only been 6 players signed to one since the salary cap came out and only 1 where the contract wasn't matched.

Quincey's options are likely to be accepting the Wings qualifying offer or take them to arbitration but its almost a certainty he'll be a Wing next year.

Edited by FlashyG

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PLAN B:

Semin, Carle/Wideman. DO NOT re-sign Hudler, leave that option for youth ice-time. 25 Goals easily replaced even by a lazy Semin (Huds doesn't do much else anyways, so who cares). Leave that money for a grinder and/or another defensive signing. I don't trust in Kindl.

Final team would look something like this:

Semin - Datsyuk - Franzen

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Filppula

Abby - Helm - Cleary

Miller - Emmerton - Eaves

Kronwall - Ericsson

Carle - White

Smith - Quincey

Howard, VetBackup

Still a disgusting forward setup that can compete with any in the league as long as the bottom six stay healthy (yes I said bottom six). Defensively not the best, but a real team effort can keep us up with a lot of teams, but Kronner and Ericsson will need to step up their game right away (Kronner attempting to fill a bit of the void left by Lidstrom, and Ericsson doing the same for Stuart's absence) and Smith needs to prove to the NHL why we love him.

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I used Capgeek's qualifying offer calculator so I guess they didn't follow the NHL rules correctly, but you're right on the value its 100% of last years salary not 105%.

You're using last years numbers on RFA compensation though and chances are Quincey will fall into the 2nd round pick category this year rather than the 1st and 3rd rd Picks.

Either way the odds of someone signing Quincey to an offersheet are very slim. There have only been 6 players signed to one since the salary cap came out and only 1 where the contract wasn't matched.

Quincey's options are likely to be accepting the Wings qualifying offer or take them to arbitration but its almost a certainty he'll be a Wing next year.

...and honestly, if Quincey were to accept the $3.125, then I guess it would be ok, but I honestly hope he is NOT a Red Wing this season...Maybe Holland would trade his rights and Kindl at the draft for something...I am hoping for Detroit three defensive signings being Suter/Schultz and then DeKeyser as #7...

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...and honestly, if Quincey were to accept the $3.125, then I guess it would be ok, but I honestly hope he is NOT a Red Wing this season...Maybe Holland would trade his rights and Kindl at the draft for something...I am hoping for Detroit three defensive signings being Suter/Schultz and then DeKeyser as #7...

Even if the Wings signed Suter, Schultz and DeKeyser I doub't they'd pass Quincey, Ericsson or even Smith on the depth chart, they'd likely get a year in Grand Rapids unless they had an unbelievable training camp.

A trade is possible but more likely we'd end up with

Suter-Kronwall

White-Ericsson

Smith-Quincey

Kindl - Since I doubt management would want talented rookies like Schultz or DeKeyser sitting in the press box in Detroit rather than playing big minutes in GR.

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...and honestly, if Quincey were to accept the $3.125, then I guess it would be ok, but I honestly hope he is NOT a Red Wing this season...Maybe Holland would trade his rights and Kindl at the draft for something...I am hoping for Detroit three defensive signings being Suter/Schultz and then DeKeyser as #7...

I seriously doubt we will get/go after Schultz. Our history isn't really littered with signings like that. We went after Brunnstrom, but once the sweepstakes were on we ducked out early. Kids like that get hyped so much and then the risk becomes greater the further they get hyped. I would prefer to go after Suter (obs) and then Wideman as another right-handed shot. That way the D-corps would look like:

Kronwall - Suter

Ericsson - Wideman

Smith - White

Kindl

I don't see us paying over 7mil for Suter (that would go against the Red Wing Way) and that earns the respect of the league, which is partly why we are able to attract big names. That leaves room for 4mil for Wideman. Dropping Quincey is 'quinceyssential' (Ha, get it?) to this plan, so I agree with that notion.

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I seriously doubt we will get/go after Schultz. Our history isn't really littered with signings like that. We went after Brunnstrom, but once the sweepstakes were on we ducked out early. Kids like that get hyped so much and then the risk becomes greater the further they get hyped. I would prefer to go after Suter (obs) and then Wideman as another right-handed shot. That way the D-corps would look like:

Kronwall - Suter

Ericsson - Wideman

Smith - White

Kindl

I don't see us paying over 7mil for Suter (that would go against the Red Wing Way) and that earns the respect of the league, which is partly why we are able to attract big names. That leaves room for 4mil for Wideman. Dropping Quincey is 'quinceyssential' (Ha, get it?) to this plan, so I agree with that notion.

Yes, I would go for that roster too, but man do I really want to get these young studs signed in our organiztion...We always talk about the future and our youngsters and prospects...I just think this team is better off 10 years from now if they let Smith/Schultz/Dekeyser grow along with the leadership of Suter/Kronwall rather than just file holes every off season or two...

EDIT: You have to remember too, if the Cap goes back down around $63M or so, having players like Schultz/Dekeyser under contract wont cause any issues like there would be with Quincey and Wideman around $4M-$5M each...We will have our top 4 defenders in Suter/Kronner/White/Ericsson there should be no issues in having two youngsters round out the top 6 long with a #7...Smith is the real deal and it seems Schultz is a close to the real deal as anyone can be...in 10 years, when Kronner and Suter are approaching a careeer, these two will be running our D...I just hope it happens!

Edited by LeftWinger

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I know everyone is high on Parise and Suter, but lets assume we dont get them...the drop off is huge so wouldnt it be better to start the youth movemen? Next years UFA class is extremely loaded so I would prefer that even if our PO streak would come to an end ! Thoughts?

I think, we should go to the contract cap no matter what, but if we don't hit the salary cap I am okay. I just hope we add more players than we need and let them battle it out for who will be the team going forward. If the top UFA's arent here, then get more fresh blood.

Just never count on someone being UFA next year. Suter and Parise might still not hit the open market, so if they are there you should treat them as the only option if you want to make that sort of splash.

I often think it would be better not to get either of them if X player is available... but that isn't a wise decision as who knows what will be available.

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I think, we should go to the contract cap no matter what, but if we don't hit the salary cap I am okay. I just hope we add more players than we need and let them battle it out for who will be the team going forward. If the top UFA's arent here, then get more fresh blood.

Just never count on someone being UFA next year. Suter and Parise might still not hit the open market, so if they are there you should treat them as the only option if you want to make that sort of splash.

I often think it would be better not to get either of them if X player is available... but that isn't a wise decision as who knows what will be available.

This!

Whether Holland gets Suter/Parise or he doesn't, the needs are still there! The Cap space is still there! The are plenty of plan B players out there that might even help us out more...

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Some thoughts....

IIRC dekeyser is going back for his senior year. So not someone we can sign this year. If the cap goes down-which it may, money will get tight real quick. But we will not know this untill well after Juy 1st. That will be interesting to watch, how many teams push right up to the 70 million mark, with an unknown future cap.

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Because he made $3.125M last season, Holland only has to qualify him for the same $3.125M. Because he made over $1M. Holland must qualify him for that amount to keep him from becoming a UFA, I agree he could accept that offer, but we all know he is worth more on the open market, so if Holland qualified him he remains a RFA and Quincey could sign an offer sheet of from someone and Holland has 7 days to decide whether to match or recieve the compensation...

Also, it would not benefit either of them to go to arbitration...I would hope Quincey would just be a man and go somewhere else and not hold Ken Holland hostage. I am not disagreeing that he is worth more than $3.125M but since Holland is about to attempt to spend upwards of $16M on Parise/Suter, the two draft picks are more valuable. $4M to Quincey would just be wasting Cap space when he is at best a #4/#5 defender and not part of this reload. IF Quincey gets awarded too much money and it hinders our ability to properly reload, he will immediately become the next whipping boy, especially if he plays like the hot garbage he played like last season...for the money, I'd rather keep Kindl around for $800,000 than re-sign Quincey. I can think of a few Defenders who are a better value to this team than Quincey...who can be had for less...

I love how in the first paragraph you've convinced yourself that someone will sign him to an offer sheet that will cost them 2 or 3 draft pciks, and then in the second paragraph you describe him as a #4/#5 defender at best and that he finished the season by playing like "hot garbage". You're so adorable...

I will guarantee you cash money that we will receive no draft pick compensation for Quincey, and that the only way he does not play for Detroit next year is if either Holland does not submit a qualifying offer, or he walks away from the arbitration award.

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Some thoughts....

IIRC dekeyser is going back for his senior year. So not someone we can sign this year. If the cap goes down-which it may, money will get tight real quick. But we will not know this untill well after Juy 1st. That will be interesting to watch, how many teams push right up to the 70 million mark, with an unknown future cap.

Yes, Holland and Iltich persuaded him to go back to school, I am not sure the rules regarding this, I remember the Wings signed Abdelkader while he was at MSU, were they able to do so because they owned his rights? If not, then why couldn't they sign Danny while at WMU for his Senior year?

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Yes, Holland and Iltich persuaded him to go back to school, I am not sure the rules regarding this, I remember the Wings signed Abdelkader while he was at MSU, were they able to do so because they owned his rights? If not, then why couldn't they sign Danny while at WMU for his Senior year?

If he signed a contract or even came to a pro camp he would be ineligible to play in the NCAA

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