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Guest The Axe

The Next Move

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I would still like to see Mueller signed here...24 years old, loads of potential, and with his health could be had for pretty cheap. That is a win/win situation all around...also Daniel Winnik is a solid winger that is a stay at home player that would add some dimension to this club... I like both of these guys more than Mursak or Emmerton...they'd cost more though...but these are just two examples proving that there are plan c's out there that would help our team...

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That statement is consummately arbitrary and without any logical basis.

Well lets have a look at Flip's production prior to his "breakout" seaon he just had shall we?

2010/2011 39 pts

2009/2010 35 pts

2008/2009 40 pts

2007/2008 36 pts

You're right...He's not a 40 to 45 pts guy...More like a 35 to 40 pts guy.

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We got the cap room. Something will get done.

On a random note though.... I totally just met the Justin Chancellor the bass player from Tool.

I was riding my bike in Kincaid park. Ran into him at a rest area. He said they just finished the new Album and are mixing it right now to CD. I also ran into a huge Moose.

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I know that the overwhelming consensus would be completely against this. But, does anyone think that maybe blowing up the team would be the best move? I'm not even sold on the idea my own self...but it's just something to discuss while we wait and see if anything happens to improve our team.

Maybe doing what Philly did could help us, especially in the long run. Trading Zetterberg and/or Datsyuk for very high end younger players with superstar potential before they both decline to the point of having no value..... We could maybe fetch players like Oliver Ekman-Larson (who I believe will be the best defenseman in the league for a long time), Brayden Schenn, Evander Kane, Erik Gudbranson, Alex Burmistrov, Patrik Berglund, Bobby Ryan...ect...

Trust me, my heart would shatter trading away either of them, regardless of the return. But, sometimes things like that can end up being a huge blessing is disguise....Any thoughts? Please don't kill me for bringing up the idea of it :tomato:

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I know that the overwhelming consensus would be completely against this. But, does anyone think that maybe blowing up the team would be the best move? I'm not even sold on the idea my own self...but it's just something to discuss while we wait and see if anything happens to improve our team.

Maybe doing what Philly did could help us, especially in the long run. Trading Zetterberg and/or Datsyuk for very high end younger players with superstar potential before they both decline to the point of having no value..... We could maybe fetch players like Oliver Ekman-Larson (who I believe will be the best defenseman in the league for a long time), Brayden Schenn, Evander Kane, Erik Gudbranson, Alex Burmistrov, Patrik Berglund, Bobby Ryan...ect...

Trust me, my heart would shatter trading away either of them, regardless of the return. But, sometimes things like that can end up being a huge blessing is disguise....Any thoughts? Please don't kill me for bringing up the idea of it :tomato:

The same thing would happen to us that happened to Philly, whoever got Dats and Z would win the cup :) Seriously though, we rag on Detroit for being unnecessarily loyal, (and that maybe so) but with Dats and Z the loyalty is important.

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I know that the overwhelming consensus would be completely against this. But, does anyone think that maybe blowing up the team would be the best move? I'm not even sold on the idea my own self...but it's just something to discuss while we wait and see if anything happens to improve our team.

Maybe doing what Philly did could help us, especially in the long run. Trading Zetterberg and/or Datsyuk for very high end younger players with superstar potential before they both decline to the point of having no value..... We could maybe fetch players like Oliver Ekman-Larson (who I believe will be the best defenseman in the league for a long time), Brayden Schenn, Evander Kane, Erik Gudbranson, Alex Burmistrov, Patrik Berglund, Bobby Ryan...ect...

Trust me, my heart would shatter trading away either of them, regardless of the return. But, sometimes things like that can end up being a huge blessing is disguise....Any thoughts? Please don't kill me for bringing up the idea of it :tomato:

I wouldn't trade Z or Pav but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if they shopped Mule and Fil to see what the offers might be.

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Guest Crymson   
Guest Crymson

Fil would bring you Ryan...plain and simple...

Filppula, Mursak, Tatar, 2nd rounder gets us Bobby Ryan....MAKE THE FLIPPIN TRADE!

How do you know this? Have you spoken with Bob Murray? If so, what else did he say?

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Fil would bring you Ryan...plain and simple...

Filppula, Mursak, Tatar, 2nd rounder gets us Bobby Ryan....MAKE THE FLIPPIN TRADE!

Agreed.

As I mentioned earlier - the chances of Filppula having another 60 plus pts a season is rather slim...IMHO it would be wise for Holland to use this time to his advantage while Filppula's value is at an all-time high.

If riding shotgun to Datsyuk rewards Ryan with 40 plus goals - nobody here will complain about what it took to acquire him.

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Guest Crymson   
Guest Crymson

Well lets have a look at Flip's production prior to his "breakout" seaon he just had shall we?

2010/2011 39 pts

2009/2010 35 pts

2008/2009 40 pts

2007/2008 36 pts

You're right...He's not a 40 to 45 pts guy...More like a 35 to 40 pts guy.

I do not see the reasoning behind your claim that a young, developing player who has finally hit his stride should suddenly regress to past numbers. By your logic, no young player who ever had a few seasons with the same numbers would ever improve.

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Losing Flip and gaining Ryan is a wash. That would be dumb.

If Filppula were a 60 plus pts player year after year then I would tend to agree...This past season was a nice accomplishment for him, but as his previous seasons suggest he's not likely to be as productive as he was this past season.

Filppula's 28 years old - not some 22 year old kid...Look at other players around the league such as Erik Cole, and Michael Ryder; both had a productive 2011/2012 season, but previous seasons were not quite so.

I'm not saying it's impossible for Filppula to have another 60 plus pts a season - just that it's unlikely...If we can land a 25 year old legit top line winger who's capable of scoring 30 to 40 goals a year - then why not look into it?

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Guest The Axe   
Guest The Axe

Flip produces on a point per game level when given 1st and 2nd line minutes. .5 per game when filling his normal 3rd line duties. What more can he do?

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Saying Val Filppula is a wash with Bobby Ryan, you are on crack....Hey, maybe they'll trade us Ryan and a 1st rounder for Flip?

Here's the problem, sure Flip and Ryan are the main cogs, but Holland will have to sweetin the deal in order to secure him. Throwing in two NHL ready prospects and a pick should more than entice Murray enough to trade Ryan to us...not unless Columbus offers them Rick Nash...

Everything I have said is all speculation, of course, I do not know Mr. Murray, but he had said he wants a 2nd line center and some young talent...Could there be other teams with 2nd line centers they are willing to trade? Of course! I maintain that Holland has the trump in Filppula though, because of Selanne wanting to play with Flip in the NHL. He was asked last trade deadline if he would like to play with Flip and he said that when they play together on team Finland, they have great chemistry and he would enjoy playing in the NHL with him. Selanne has said he'd like to come back for another year and of course he only wants to play in Anaheim. Couple all that together and it's almost like a marriage made in Heaven. Murray gets Flip AND Selanne...PLUS he gets two NHL ready prospects AND a pick...We get Bobby Ryan, 24 year old phenom who is signed for three more years at a great rate and who will help usher in the next 20 years of dominance! We get younger, get a player at a position WE NEED, they get a player at a position THEY NEED and all are happy...

Both sides would be crazy not to do this deal....Now, not unless Holland wants Nash more than Ryan, then we are talking a whole new ballgame!

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Flip produces on a point per game level when given 1st and 2nd line minutes. .5 per game when filling his normal 3rd line duties. What more can he do?

He can get us Bobby Ryan...He is not a 2nd line center here...let's call this the Adam Oates, Jimmy Carson factor, great players with great careers, yet were always playing behind someone...especially Carson, he was behind Yzerman and Fedorov...Filppula will flourish in Anaheim, especially with Selanne...Once Getzlaf leaves next year, Flip will be the #1 center out there, he will never be that here... He will command and get $5M+ next July and for the money, Ryan is more valuable at $5.1M for the next three years HERE than Val will be as the #3 center or on the wing.

Maybe this won't happen and we will still have Val..that's fine too, but if Holland really wants that top 6 sniper, he must sacrifice a little depth in order to get it...whether it be Nash or Ryan, he has to do what gets the job done...Mursak and Tatar are ready to be in the NHL, but it won't be here, at least not for awhile...they'll get instant ice in Anaheim....here Tatar is stuck in GR and Mursak will probably get traded or waived anyhow...and who knows, Flip may walk after this year to somewhere he can be a #1 or #2 center...all risks with no reward, trade them now and be rewarded for the next 13 years!

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Bolded: players who are capable of playing in the top-6

Filppula-Datsyuk-Bertuzzi

Franzen-Zetterberg-Brunner

Cleary-Helm-Samuelsson

Miller-Abdelkader-Tootoo

Eaves, Emmerton, Mursak, Andersson, Nyquist

That's 9 different players who are capable of and could potentially play in the top-6 next year. We won't be trading for another top-6 forward, i.e. Nash and Ryan are not going to be Red Wings. It would be a waste of assets to trade, especially with Semin and Doan still on the market.

The next move is obvious: sign Semin or Doan and then trade away 3-4 bottom-6 forwards, or don't sign them and still trade away about 3 bottom-6 forwards. Either or the bottom 6 dump is coming. Hopefully the trade will net another D-man.

Edit: Can't understand why everyone is discussing trading for Nash or Ryan while we have more than enough in the forward department and a GAPING hole in our defense still. Bizarre-O world?

Edited by number9

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Semin - Datsyuk - Doan

Even better!

I admit the Ryan trade is a remote, VERY remote possibility, and odds are Holland stops at Doan or Doan and Semin. Which would be fine and dandy with me! But until we DON'T have Bobby Ryan, a fan can wish....

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Guest Hatethedrake!   
Guest Hatethedrake!

Doan will most likely sign a 1 year deal with Phoenix and Semin will go to the KHL. Wings will likely sign Kubina as Kenny was rumoured to have interest in him at the trade deadline. Quincey and Abs will be re-signed. That will be it. Kenny will say how much he likes his team and that he will save his cap space for the trade deadline and will explore improving his roster. But really, nothing will be done. Kenny is all about adding and not subtracting. No impact trades will be made. Just depth ones. Realistically I think most Wings fans can agree that this team is good enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to go very far. This season and next season are stopgap seasons until our influx of young talent become the next decade's Red Wings. We are basically buying time for Jankrok, Jurco, Pulkkinen, Mrazek, Callahan, Nyquist, Tatar, Smith, etc.

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Doan will most likely sign a 1 year deal with Phoenix and Semin will go to the KHL. Wings will likely sign Kubina as Kenny was rumoured to have interest in him at the trade deadline. Quincey and Abs will be re-signed. That will be it. Kenny will say how much he likes his team and that he will save his cap space for the trade deadline and will explore improving his roster. But really, nothing will be done. Kenny is all about adding and not subtracting. No impact trades will be made. Just depth ones. Realistically I think most Wings fans can agree that this team is good enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to go very far. This season and next season are stopgap seasons until our influx of young talent become the next decade's Red Wings. We are basically buying time for Jankrok, Jurco, Pulkkinen, Mrazek, Callahan, Nyquist, Tatar, Smith, etc.

you gotta keep in mind the age of our core players. Hank is almost 32 and Dats will be turning 34 in 10 days!! It's usually around this age that production takes a huge hit, so people who are expecting Dats and Hank of 08 are due in for a reality check.

Not to mention, Franzen 32, Sammy turning 36, Bertuzzi 37, Cleary 33.....this core won't remain our core for much longer and last time I checked, we had no prospects in line even close to potential Hank/Dats level, which causes tremendous worry.

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Which is why Holland should make a deal for Ryan...he would start the next generation. He may influence the likes of Getzlaf and/or Perry next July...Same could be said about Nash too, he would have some influence throughout the league as well...one would think..

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