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RedWingsRox

Holland losing his moxie? Is Detroit slipping as UFA destination?

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IF we couldn't get passed the first rd with lidstrom,Stuart and hurdler. Babcock insist with the current roster were headed backwards.. How does tootoo , Samuelson, Gustafson make us better? We've went backwards. Low balling these free agents assuming cause they would wear the wing wheel doesn't bring these free agents in anymore. We no longer have yzerman,shanhan,chelios,lidstrom to lure in big fish kids. It will stay that way until holland decides to outbid his opponent in free agency. Something he has never done.

Gap year. We're building from within, not with overpaid FA's. Our prospect wave will be rolling through in the next 3 to 4 years. We won't be able to pay them reasonable contracts then if we overpay for FA's now.

Z Winged Dangler likes this

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While Pav, Hank & Kronner are great, Detroit simply does not have the collection of skilled assets that other players drool over playing with. The cap has made it difficult, but Kenny's philosophy has made it tougher. He has waited three years too long to address his team's needs. Now we are almost the new Calgary Flames.

I hope Jimmy D & Mr. I don't take three years to address the GM issies.

esteef, Dabura and haroldsnepsts like this

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While Pav, Hank & Kronner are great, Detroit simply does not have the collection of skilled assets that other players drool over playing with. The cap has made it difficult, but Kenny's philosophy has made it tougher. He has waited three years too long to address his team's needs. Now we are almost the new Calgary Flames.

Y'know, I think you pretty much nailed it here.

Briere, Hartnell, Simmonds, Giroux, Couturier...if I'm Doan or Ryan, I'm dying to be a Flyer.

pondrocket likes this

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Y'know, I think you pretty much nailed it here.

Briere, Hartnell, Simmonds, Giroux, Couturier...if I'm Doan or Ryan, I'm dying to be a Flyer.

The sheer thought of Jody Shelley on your side is enough to draw most free agents to Philly.

Edited by Bring Back The Bruise Bros
pondrocket and number9 like this

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While Pav, Hank & Kronner are great, Detroit simply does not have the collection of skilled assets that other players drool over playing with. The cap has made it difficult, but Kenny's philosophy has made it tougher. He has waited three years too long to address his team's needs. Now we are almost the new Calgary Flames.

I hope Jimmy D & Mr. I don't take three years to address the GM issies.

At least we aren't stuck with too many boat anchor contracts YET!

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Frank,

What I meant by him overrated is he's not worth the money he is being paid. I should have phrased that post a little better while he is a good player I don't think he's worth the money he is getting. I do think Parise is an excellent player but not worth the $12+ Million a year he is getting paid. No one is worth that much IMO including Crybaby Crosby.

Even if Chicago gets a better Goalie in Luongo IMO they still have a few holes, with Nashville when you have Hal Gill as your #1 D-Man you have a hole or two (Then again we shouldn't be talking.)

I do agree about Weber's concussion issues and I think it will come back to bite Philadelphia in the ***.

Fair enough that is true but let us face it, come UFA day most players are getting overpaid. In terms of Parise and Suter a lot of it has to do with simple math, such guys usually don't make it to UFA ever if they do, you have to overpay to get them or have a nice "hometown bonus".

IllinoisRedWingsFan likes this

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Fair enough that is true but let us face it, come UFA day most players are getting overpaid. In terms of Parise and Suter a lot of it has to do with simple math, such guys usually don't make it to UFA ever if they do, you have to overpay to get them or have a nice "hometown bonus".

Bingo! You hit the nail on the head. IIRC we were the team that made the $100 Million + offer for Suter FWIW.

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I have to disagree there, after rewatching the Predator series, if anything they gave us time with the puck in the offensive zone. They kept us to the outside, and force us to take a bad angle shot, clear the rebound, and take advantage of our defenseman pinching. We gave up 20 more odd man rushes than Nashville in only 5 games. I believe it was more of a system issue, than a personnel issue. Defenseman were way to aggressive and it cost us.

Nashville was aggressive in the offensive zone, but surprisingly passive in the defensive zone, they let us take shot after shot(outshot them by 10). And took advantage when we overextended in the offensive zone.

Sorry, should've been clearer - re: the Preds successfully taking away our time and space, I was talking more about their forecheck than their d-zone work. I think.

Edited by Dabura

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Sorry, should've been clearer - re: the Preds successfully taking away our time and space, I was talking more about their forecheck than their d-zone work. I think.

the offer to Suter was in the 90's, not over 100 mil.

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Very very good read, enjoyed it, just some things to add

drafting is always a big gamble, especially when you are drafting as high as the Wings do. You are pretty much going for high risk/high reward type of picks if 5 of them turn out good + you have done an oustanding job, sadly that is not the reality.

True, Holland needs to prove again why he is the freaking best GM in the game, but what can you do when absolutely no one is outthere? Do you honestly believe the Coyotes would send Yandle to a conference rival? I highly doubt that. Holland should have been prepared better for that scenario yes, but you can't blame our internal lack of nhl caliber defensemen save for Smith, we should have tradered for one. One the other hand which team is going to give up top 2 defensemen easily?

It is a tough situation for sure, but I am very confident that Holland, Nil und Develano will prove again who the best management in the league is. Maybe not this but certainly next year.

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What defenseman traded/free agent the past 3 years would have been a very good top pairing defenseman for the Red Wings moving forward in the future?

If a top tier defenseman gets traded to anyone but the Wings, and the offer isn't something completely ludicrous I'll start blaming Holland, but the only defenseman that fits what the Red Wings need the past few years was Suter, if you want to argue Burns I'll understand it, I just don't think the trade would have for value(Setoguchi,Coyle and a first would be equivalent to Filpulla, Smith/Nyquist and a first , and I'm not sold on Burns fitting in our puck possession game, he takes a lot of risks, something the Red Wings defense probably has enough of.

I'd like to hear(in reasonable hindsight obviously we probably wouldn't have been able to trade for Weber/Chara etc.) on players that have been moved, what you think Holland should have done? I can't see a defenseman that I'd personally feel good about going forward with for the next 5 years other than Suter, and Holland did all he could to get him.

The situation is not dire, there is plenty of time, cap space, and assets for Holland to work with. If he strikes out and the Wings miss the playoffs, Yandle or Enstrom get moved for cheap then there is reasonable examples of Holland not getting the players we need.

Z Winged Dangler likes this

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Holland blew it. Plain and simple. He's got his head up and locked right now. He's taking care of fringe moves that dont help the team and missing out on ones that could. Pondering over Holmstrom's future? Are you kidding me? Bertuzzi? Samuelsson? Tootoo? Quincey? Would any of you on here rather have these 5 guys and their 11 million dollar cap hit instead of Suter (9 mil per), nyquist, tatar, emmerton, and #63 (cant remember name)? "But Holland would have had to offer parise 9 mil too.". Fine! If he wasnt blowing it on has-beens, we'd still have 4-5 mil in cap space even after spending 18 mil per on those 2 guys. Holland is going to need to trade players now. And Franzen isnt going to be what other teams want. Filppula , Smith, and Nyquist are the goods. Losing those guys will hurt us more than people realize. Holland has failed. Goose said it best = no points for 2nd place.

ShanahanMan and centcougar07 like this

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Ian White is our #2 defenseman. That's borderline outrageous. Holland should've been better prepared for Nick's departure. It's really that simple.

Mind answering my question then? If it's that simple, which defenseman are you thinking he should have went after?

Same with The Axe above me. Which defenseman that has been traded/free agent the past few seasons are you guys thinking of? I'd love to know. Bring something to the table.

Edited by Carman
Esquire likes this

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hahahhahaha holland thinks 10 to 20 steps ahead of everyone....u all only think of the here and now, gald he's our GM

Edited by number9
Z Winged Dangler likes this

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Off topic but I lol'd

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=401434

"Now we move forward and see what we can do," he explained. "We like our team - we think it's a good, up-and-coming young team and we will continue to try and add to it and make it better, which is what we tried to do with the offer sheet. We'll move forward.There are still players out there that require a trade," Holmgren added in the conference call. "There's still plenty of time before we can plan and rule out anything right now. As I said earlier, we really like our team, we certainly don't want to make any drastic changes, but we are going to continue to look at ways to get better. The object is to have the best team going into training camp and that's what we're going to do."
Edited by pucktividi
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hahahhahaha holland thinks 10 to 20 steps ahead of everyone....u all only think of the here and now, gald he's our GM

:thumbs-up: agreed. Like Drake Marcus said in a very well constructed post, guys like Flip, Dats and Howard are going to need to be re-signed next summer and Holland unlike most GM's keeps money around to make sure he doesn't lose the core of his team. Good to see not everyone is writing the Wings off 2 1/2 months before the season starts. And we got players like Gus and Brunner that are capable of playing in the top 6 until proven otherwise.

number9 likes this

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I don't know what everyone is getting so worked up about. It's almost as if people believe that the season will start on time and be an entire 82 games or something. Relax people, all the Wings have to do is ride out 50-60 games which will give Holland and company plenty of time to make moves/signings for 2013-14.

Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

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If you look at the top six of some other teams like Philly, Rangers & the Kings they are friggin' loaded. If you look at their D corps I think those three teams are also more well rounded then we currently boast and two out of three of those teams goalies are Quick and Lundqvist.

Holland needs to add at least one scorer to our top six & he needs to add one great D man. What worries me is the attraction of Detroit slipped a couple years ago (at least to the North American player) with no fault of Holland-so how does he counter that, along with now a club that lost the best ever Dman and an has an aging core of "elite" talent. Not easy things to overcome but Im convinced he just needs to rock one solid move to put us back on the radar. At this rate Hollands going to be watched like never before so I hope he rocks it out soooon.

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:thumbs-up: agreed. Like Drake Marcus said in a very well constructed post, guys like Flip, Dats and Howard are going to need to be re-signed next summer and Holland unlike most GM's keeps money around to make sure he doesn't lose the core of his team. Good to see not everyone is writing the Wings off 2 1/2 months before the season starts. And we got players like Gus and Brunner that are capable of playing in the top 6 until proven otherwise.

God the season needs to start the drama is hurting meh head>< I am also on board with believing we need to be patient and plan MORE for the future than the now.Our team isant complete for a bit yet and if it is....it will be for a good reason, think for the future.

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