• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
Red Wings Addict

Should Kronwall have to answer the bell for his hits?

Rate this topic

Should Kronwall have to answer the bell for his hits?  

100 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Kronwall have to answer the bell for his hits?

    • Yes
      10
    • No
      85


Recommended Posts

I understand where you're coming from but I disagree. I love seeing the other team squirm and lose their focus and try to get retribution when they should be focusing on the game itself. Vladdy said it best: "I don't need to score the goal. I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."

On the other hand, when Zetterberg gets his face slammed into the boards (or any other illegal and dangerous attack), then I expect the team to strike down with great fury. The acquisition of Tootoo should help in that regard.

Our powerplay is no longer an enforcer. It flat out sucks.

And nobody is rattled by our team like they were say in 2002.

Absolutely not, hitting is a part of the game. Fighting isn't. Can't wait until fighting is gone and I don't have to waste my time seeing idiots punch each other.

In the meantime, go watch the NBA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In the meantime, go watch the NBA.

Not enough physical contact for me, I like football.

You don't need to be an idiot and take shots to the head and become suicidal to be physical in today's game. Fighting is a cave man skill, now that we understand the human brain more and more, it's surprising to me people like you still want to see young men dead every off season. It truly boggles my mind that we are so backwards in this sport, and I can't wait until we catch up with the rest of the world, I'm tired of seeing players shave years along with quality of their life to appease a part of a sports fan base.

In the meantime, you can watch UFC.

Edited by Carman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not enough physical contact for me, I like football.

You don't need to be an idiot and take shots to the head and become suicidal to be physical in today's game. Fighting is a cave man skill, now that we understand the human brain more and more, it's surprising to me people like you still want to see young men dead every off season. It truly boggles my mind that we are so backwards in this sport, and I can't wait until we catch up with the rest of the world, I'm tired of seeing players shave years along with quality of their life to appease a part of a sports fan base.

In the meantime, you can watch UFC.

FIghting has been a part of North American hockey for a long time. I don't want that tradition to change. I shouldn't have to watch the UFC to see a sport I've been watching since I was a kid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest The Axe   
Guest The Axe

Needing to fight after legal hits isn't too far from needing to fight after legal goals.

Tim Hunter.

Good point, crysmon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FIghting has been a part of North American hockey for a long time. I don't want that tradition to change. I shouldn't have to watch the UFC to see a sport I've been watching since I was a kid.

That's fine, why should we change something that seriously harms someone? I'm sorry, I just don't understand how fighting is more important than a person's well being, I'll defend hitting in hockey, but I draw the line at punches directly to the head. I just refuse to believe the entertainment trade off for a player's health is there for me personally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's fine, why should we change something that seriously harms someone? I'm sorry, I just don't understand how fighting is more important than a person's well being, I'll defend hitting in hockey, but I draw the line at punches directly to the head. I just refuse to believe the entertainment trade off for a player's health is there for me personally.

You make it sound like every ex enforcer has died. There have been lots of tragic deaths due to concussion symptoms, but most concussions still come from hits, especially for non-fighters.

In many years, you may start seeing skilled players whose careers ended because of concussions committing suicide and turning to drugs. Will you want to eliminate hitting then?

Hockey is a physical sport, and hits to the head will occur, whether it be due to legal hits, which are allowed, or fighting, which is also allowed.

Honestly, the best way to prevent concussions is to take hitting and fighting out of the game. I know you just want fighting out, but that's still asking for a lot. That's all we need is more Ruutu's and Cooke's running around cheap shotting people, knowing nobody will ever fight them. There has to be some accountability in a league where accountability seems to be waning. I think they should get rid of the instigator rule first, and see if that deters cheap shots.

Edited by GMRwings1983

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's fine, why should we change something that seriously harms someone? I'm sorry, I just don't understand how fighting is more important than a person's well being, I'll defend hitting in hockey, but I draw the line at punches directly to the head. I just refuse to believe the entertainment trade off for a player's health is there for me personally.

If you're worried about player health, you should be for eliminating hitting. What percentage of serious injuries have resulted from fighting? The percentage is low, and the amount of injuries is less than the amount of injuries from 'dirty' hits.

For the topic, he shouldn't have to respond for a clean hit. However, I do think the other team should challenge him. Except for blatantly dirty hits, I think fights should be agreed on by both players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our powerplay is no longer an enforcer. It flat out sucks.

And nobody is rattled by our team like they were say in 2002.

This is true, but considering the alternative that we're discussing is making the other team answer the bell, I'd say that our enforcers aren't very enforcer-like either (aside from Tootoo, as mentioned above), and I don't think anybody would be rattled by the physicality of our team like they were say in 2002, or 98, or 95 etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're worried about player health, you should be for eliminating hitting. What percentage of serious injuries have resulted from fighting? The percentage is low, and the amount of injuries is less than the amount of injuries from 'dirty' hits.

For the topic, he shouldn't have to respond for a clean hit. However, I do think the other team should challenge him. Except for blatantly dirty hits, I think fights should be agreed on by both players.

Sorry, I'm just not sold on the deaths of Boogaard, Belak, Rypien, and to an extent Probert being due to hits more-so than the fights. If it was Kayira-type players dying in the off-season then I'd side with hitting being worse than repeated punches to the skull, but that's not the case.

I played Juniors, I played semi-pro, I saw first hand the dread that enforcers had of their next fight, and knowing damn well the only way they can get that next paycheck is to go out and fight.

“The guys that have played the role have never denied how it makes them feel and what it does to them emotionally,” said Brantt Myhres, a former N.H.L. enforcer who made five trips to league-mandated rehabilitation because of alcohol and drug addictions, and now works as a substance-abuse counselor. “It’s one of the hardest jobs in sports. All people see is 20,000 people standing and cheering you on. They don’t see the dark times. They don’t see you curled up in a ball in a hotel room, scared to death for the next fight.”

“They scare me,” said the former enforcer Ryan Vandenbussche, 38, who last played in the N.H.L. five years ago and acknowledges bouts of memory loss. “They scare me because we don’t know why this is happening.”

A lot of them, including the long-feared enforcer Georges Laraque, now retired, said that sleep was rare the night before an expected fight with another enforcer.

"I did it because it was my job but I hated it," said Georges Laraque, one of the most successful hockey heavyweights in his 12-year NHL career. "I hated to fight. I hated the pressure. I hated to be called a goon, and an animal. I hated promoting violence."

"It's the night before, the day of the game, before it starts," he said. "It's the shivers that it gives you, the worry in the head and the brain. It's when you go to a movie and you can't watch it because you're thinking the next game about having to fight Derek Boogaard or someone like that. Or you don't feel well, but something happens and you have to go out there. ... It's that pressure that's nonstop that you live with."

I just don't see the need for it to continue, it's a hazardous unhealthy job, I understand enforcers always have a choice, they don't have to pursue NHL fighting, but once you reach that point in juniors, that's your job if you ever want to play in the NHL. I think the NHL needs to outlaw it and save these player's from themselves, I don't see a reason the NHL should keep promoting fighting. I understand hitting would be next, I wouldn't like it, but if it will end up saving lives then I might change my mind, but I can't recall an NHLer that died prematurely due to hits, that didn't have a premature heart condition, or a situation like Masterson's. It took Ludek Cajka's death for no touch icing to be introduced for example.

Terrence Tootoo, Trevor Ettinger, Don Sanderson(hit head on ice after fight), Boogard, Rypien all died do to suicide/drugs, all were heavily involved with fighting. Only two other cases of drug/suicide the past ten years that weren't enforcers, Roman Lyashenko, Tom Cavangah(was hospitalized several for schizophrenia).

Edited by Carman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I played Juniors, I played semi-pro, I saw first hand the dread that enforcers had of their next fight, and knowing damn well the only way they can get that next paycheck is to go out and fight.

When my family had WHL players billet with us we had two guys that were considered "enforcer" type players and neither of them ever dreaded their fights with the exception of one time maybe. Most of the fights were either planned ahead of time, started by two guys to get their teams going when neither team was doing much, or a fight for retribution from a dirty hit and when it came to those they said they didn't mind fighting someone to show their team that they had their back.

I know fighting is a touchy subject with some people but I really do think it has a place in hockey and a lot of people would stop watching if it was taken out. It has less to to with our barbaric love of violence and a lot more to do with preserving tradition in a sport that seems hellbent on becoming soccer.

Edited by Ally

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Should Kronwall have to answer the bell for his hits?

  1. Yes (5 votes [10.00%])
  2. No (45 votes [90.00%])

Wow, an overwhelming majority voted no. I shouldn't be too surprised since this is LGW but I didn't think the majority would be that big. Where's the staunch pro-enforcer crowd at eh? :boxing:

It's still interesting to see that 9 out of every 10 fans don't think Kronwall should have to fight after his hits. Some good points by everyone though. I wonder how different the results would be if I had a "Sometimes" option. Oh well, too late for that now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, an overwhelming majority voted no. I shouldn't be too surprised since this is LGW but I didn't think the majority would be that big. Where's the staunch pro-enforcer crowd at eh? :boxing:

It's still interesting to see that 9 out of every 10 fans don't think Kronwall should have to fight after his hits. Some good points by everyone though. I wonder how different the results would be if I had a "Sometimes" option. Oh well, too late for that now.

I would have voted sometimes. Otherwise, I abstained from voting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i understand enforcers sticking up for their star players when they get hit, even if the hit is clean. wings had players like that in the past. go ahead and try to fight kronwall, tootoo burt or ab will step in goon style now that kronwall is one of our stars

Wow, an overwhelming majority voted no. I shouldn't be too surprised since this is LGW but I didn't think the majority would be that big. Where's the staunch pro-enforcer crowd at eh? :boxing:

It's still interesting to see that 9 out of every 10 fans don't think Kronwall should have to fight after his hits. Some good points by everyone though. I wonder how different the results would be if I had a "Sometimes" option. Oh well, too late for that now.

some players fight, some players dont. just because he is a big hitter doesnt mean he has to fight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest The Axe   
Guest The Axe

i understand enforcers sticking up for their star players when they get hit, even if the hit is clean. wings had players like that in the past. go ahead and try to fight kronwall, tootoo burt or ab will step in goon style now that kronwall is one of our stars

some players fight, some players dont. just because he is a big hitter doesnt mean he has to fight.

Kronwall shouldnt skate away

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I voted no and here's why. The game is changing folks. Whether for good or bad...

10 years ago or longer I probably would have said yes, Kronwall should answer the call. But he doesn't have to now. IMO I see the enforcer part of the game slowly disappearing as part of the reason for this. Either way it's a good debate for this thread. My family is die-hard Sharks fans and they think Kronwall is legit even if he doesn't have to fight. My pops thinks Kronners is one of the best complete D-Man in the league coming from a Sharkies fan that's a big lol

Edited by St. Michael (the Red Wing)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I voted yes, but only for dirty hits.

I don't like fights for clean hits. I seriously hate it when there's a clean hit and the opposing team mills around and both teams are pushing and shoving and facewashing each other whilst the injured player lies on the ground at their feet within inches of their blades. That Havsplat was a thing of beauty, but I can't watch the aftermath. I was so scared he was going to get stepped on.

I'm an admitted Kronwall fan and enforcer slappie, and I think that if he throws a dirty hit that he should have to answer for it, but I hope it never happens. Not just because he's our #1 d-man, but because I have a bad feeling he'd have his rump handed to him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldnt mind seeing him step up and get in even one fight this season just to see what he has. After a big momentum changing hit, Kronwall turtling like he did after his hit on Hemsky must deflate A LOT of that momentum. And its not like it would kill the team that much if he got in a couple fights a year, he would get an instigator call aganist the other team all the time which would lead to a powerplay.

I think it would be nice to see him do it to get the respect of the players around the league. I remember watching a video about Lapperriere where he said he had to start fighting more because alot of the vets on his team didnt want to start getting ran because of what he does on the ice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Diry hit? Absolutely

Clean hit? Hell no

As it stands right now he is our top pairing defenseman with White (I know that is bad), but losing him after a fight would probably kill our playoff chances. That said I think we should take a good look at Jay Rosehill, he is UFA, cheap and one of the better fighters in the game plus a decent skater.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Selected stories do not prove causality. More injuries do occur in the NHL from hitting than from fighting.

You're arguing a mental aspect of enforcers, not the physical. Are enforcers more likely to abuse drugs, or are drug abusers more likely to be enforcers? These issues are generally long-standing, and began before the player had their first NHL fight. Pronger, Savard, Sauer, Crosby, etc have all missed major time, or will not play again, due to head injuries. The physical effects are the same, but the mental aspect may be different.

NFL players have had similar issues, but they do not fight. Unfortunately, these situations occur with contact sports.

you're right I am arguing the mental aspect of the position enforcers are in causes more mental harm. I'm not discussing the injuries hitting verse fighting causes, I'm discussing deaths.

How many of these hits have caused suicides? I understand that it's not clear cut scientific data, but just from my personal experience and viewpoint it make sense to me that the enforcing position in hockey is very unhealthy much more-so than hitting, as evidenced by the death's of Terrence Tootoo, Trevor Ettinger, Don Sanderson, Boogard, Rypien, and Belak.

Who has died from a hit on the ice? I guess we can use heart illness that triggers from hits, if we do that we have one Markus Wächter, that died due to complications stemming from a bodycheck, but was later announced he had a heart illness. So over the same period of time it's a 6 to 1 ratio on deaths of fighters to non fighters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd just like to point out that there is a big difference between leaving your feet to jump into a player, and leaving your feet slightly AFTER impact due to the momentum.

This is a big point. If it's a clean hit, no way he ahould have to fight. If it's a dirty hit, then yes. Too many players seem to be getting rankled over clean hits. Keep your head up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this