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uk_redwing

[Retired] Official Lockout Thread

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Agreed.

Plus leagues like the NBA have much greater revenue sharing and a luxury tax system. Given the revenue situation and cap structure are so different, it's not really apples to apples comparison. It's not just about 50%, it's about the total package.

Agreed, which is why the 57% is also irrelevant to the big picture of HRR, and so are the 52%-48% numbers I was envisioning. In the end, the rest of the deal and the HRR are going to be just as big as the percentages that each side get.

Which is also why I agree with Dreger. It shouldn't be this hard. Both sides are making it harder than it should be. We should be watching hockey tonight.

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Important dates to circle on your calendar: Toronto Star.

Great, the next round of cancellations will be on my birthday :scared: it's my birthday and I'll cry if I want to.

Check out this link, according to tsn the union is working on a proposal after the nhl "urged" the pa to submit a new proposal.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=407119

Neither side has given an offer in three weeks, but NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly stated that the NHLPA is in the midst of putting together a new offer.

"We're encouraging them to make a proposal," said Daly. "We've suggested to them to make the proposal because any movement is better than no movement at all."

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a nice article on a breakdown on where the players are heading overseas too. the artilcle also makes a good point in that the teams like the red wings who have a ton of guys playing overseas will have an advantage over the teams who don't have a lot of guys playing overseas if a season is played

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/nhlers-finding-temporary-homes-all-over-europe/article4605133/

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Check out this link, according to tsn the union is working on a proposal after the nhl "urged" the pa to submit a new proposal.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=407119

I didn't get that out of the article. It's just all the same quotes from Daly saying they want them to, but I didn't see the article say they were working on one. On that note though, I did see something earlier this week that suggested the PA was working on a new proposal.

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I didn't get that out of the article. It's just all the same quotes from Daly saying they want them to, but I didn't see the article say they were working on one. On that note though, I did see something earlier this week that suggested the PA was working on a new proposal.

I don't know if you skipped over it or what, but I did directly quote the article in my post;

NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly stated that the NHLPA is in the midst of putting together a new offer.

Read the fourth paragragh, and you will see where daly says that quote exactly. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=407119

Edited by Euro_Twins

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The 50-50 split in other leagues is irrelevant because of the way revenues are defined. Why do you think the definition of HRR is a core issue right now?

For the record, the NBA and NFL both take the players share from sport related revenue. Same thing as the NHL, with maybe some minor differences in the details.

The major difference with the NBA is that the players can go over their share. It's a sliding scale from 49-51%, and it's possible for players to go 6% over that without any changes to revenue forecasts, cap, tax limit, etc. They can even go higher than that, but then they start changing things. From what I've read, it seems unlikely the players would go over by more than a small amount. They hold 10% in escrow, so team payrolls would have to be a larger amount than that over the cap.

The other major difference is the NBA has half as many players. I think the NHL players would be fine with a lower share if their average salary more than doubled.

The NFL has traditionally had a fairly weak union. The owners seem to roll over them pretty easily. Given the number of players, the massive revenues and the profit margins, you'd think the players would push harder for a better deal. The main difference is the amount of revenue. Like $9 billion in the NFL. I'm sure the NHL players would be thrilled with half of that.

I have no problem with the NHL asking for a ~50% split, I just think they need to rely on revenue growth to get there instead of expecting it this year and rolling back salaries. From Fehr's comments, it doesn't seem like the players mind that idea either, provided revenues grow fast enough.

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Per Dreger...

Yes I know there has not yet been a proposal, I was merely quoting Tsn's article about how the PA was currently in the process of drafting a new proposal, when it will be submitted is yet to be determined, for now they have not finished drafting it yet.

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I don't know if you skipped over it or what, but I did directly quote the article in my post;

Read the fourth paragragh, and you will see where daly says that quote exactly. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=407119

You're right. I missed that part. I guess my eyes wander when I read the same quotes in every article about the lockout.

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Yes I know there has not yet been a proposal, I was merely quoting Tsn's article about how the PA was currently in the process of drafting a new proposal, when it will be submitted is yet to be determined, for now they have not finished drafting it yet.

I was actually just posting Dreger's tweet as a "news update", not anything as a "gotcha" to what you had said.

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i take it as a good sign that a new proposal is being drafted, but at the same time all of these meetings (via phone) and them basically not getting anywhere and only talking about players health insurance is really starting to concern me....tonight is opening night for God's sake.

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i take it as a good sign that a new proposal is being drafted, but at the same time all of these meetings (via phone) and them basically not getting anywhere and only talking about players health insurance is really starting to concern me....tonight is opening night for God's sake.

If I was not on my iPhone I would put one of those fancy lines through IS.... Tonight was opening night LOL

Wake me up next october if the puck drops....

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i take it as a good sign that a new proposal is being drafted, but at the same time all of these meetings (via phone) and them basically not getting anywhere and only talking about players health insurance is really starting to concern me....tonight is opening night for God's sake.

That is not all they talk about, I heard when Bettman and Fehr have their private meetings they talk about new ways to screw everyone over while smoking expensive cigars and drinking 50 year old scotch

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Guest RedWingsDad   
Guest RedWingsDad

That is not all they talk about, I heard when Bettman and Fehr have their private meetings they talk about new ways to screw everyone over while smoking expensive cigars and drinking 50 year old scotch

If they were really smoking fine cigars while sipping scotch they would both go up +10 awesome points in my book...

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Nice spin attempt by Daly.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/8491955/nhl-lockout-league-union-talk-free-agency-drug-testing-not-money

The union suggested meeting again Friday, but the league declined because of scheduling conflicts. There are no future meetings planned at this point.

"Until we're tackling the major issues, I'm not sure what the urgency is to meet on a 24/7 basis," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said

From the same article:

"In retrospect, I look back at it and, while we were all hopeful that there was plenty of time to get a deal done, maybe the fault lies in the fact that we didn't start negotiations until June 29. Again, that goes back to the level of urgency with the players' association and not being prepared to have those discussions."

So there's no point in meeting because they're not talking economic issues even after what should have been the first day of the hockey season. But if they had started earlier then they would've gotten a deal done? Makes perfect sense. :blink:

Enough with the passive aggressive comments from both sides. No one wants to hear your whining. Go figure out a deal.

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i take it as a good sign that a new proposal is being drafted, but at the same time all of these meetings (via phone) and them basically not getting anywhere and only talking about players health insurance is really starting to concern me....tonight is opening night for God's sake.

I was thinking the same thing. And when we're waiting to hear about progress on the main issue of how to split up 3.3 billion dollars, we, the fans, could not care less about player safety and all that jargen if they aren't even playing. Or is that just me?

It's kinda cool that I currently play in the same rink during the day as the Jets, but walking by the rink they're on when i'm going to play hockey is a little depressing at the same time cause they should have been on a road trip to start the season as far as i know.

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All issues should be considered "major" in a contract negotiation; not having a dollar sign attached to it doesn't means it is meaningless and trivial.

No, not all issues are major issues by any stretch of the imagination. They are not locking out the players beczuse the players refuse to take drug tests after the trade deadline, they are locking them out because of money. All of these secondary issues can be sorted out during the season once they sign a deal, these are not deal breaking issues they are discussing, and I believe they are only discussing it to give the illusion to fans that they are making progress, as if the fans are stupid enough to fall for their parlour tricks :nono:

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Every point in a collective bargaining agreement has to deemed as "major". Now is the time to sort all issues, no matter how large or small the fan considers them, not "at a later date", as the League loves to do. The players expect and deserve a deal which changes or tightens up articles in the agreement that need to be addressed now.

This lockout is all about Uncle Gary, plain and simple.

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This lockout is all about Uncle Gary, plain and simple.

no it's not

both sides are at fault right now as neither side seems to eager to start discussing economic issues.

owners want the pa to come up with a new proposal. the pa wants the owners to take out salary rollbacks. both sides are dragging their feet on this issue right now

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no it's not

both sides are at fault right now as neither side seems to eager to start discussing economic issues.

owners want the pa to come up with a new proposal. the pa wants the owners to take out salary rollbacks. both sides are dragging their feet on this issue right now

Finally the true colors of each side are coming out and people are starting to see what the NHL and NHLPA are all about. Those people taking sides one way or the other are really in for a dose of harsh reality.

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=407263

The first is that Bettman and the owners want too much too quickly, a significant and immediate reduction in the players' share of Hockey Related Revenue that would result in a first-year pay cut of no less than 12 per cent, and perhaps more than that. Many (outside of the NHLPA anyway) don't dispute the notion that the NHL and NHLPA are destined, eventually, to go from the old 43-57 share arrangement to around 50-50, but the NHL seems hell-bent on getting there immediately with no consideration of transitioning to soften the blow to the players. For me, the ultimate issue is not going to 50-50 as much as it is how you get there. It took seven years for the old CBA to swing in the players' favor, why does it have to ruthlessly and awkwardly snap back the owners' way in one fell swoop?

The second roadblock is Fehr and the NHLPA clinging steadfastly to the notion that -- upon expiry of a CBA that has been very good to them and faced with the old lockout-gun-to-the-head approach -- they're going to escape this conflict without any tangible reduction in the dollars they earn. As righteous as they believe their cause to be, and as empathetic as many have been to that cause, I still find it beyond incredulous that the lockout is on, the players are losing salary as we speak and there has yet to be any acknowledgement in the form of an NHLPA proposal that contemplates the players taking an actual dollar less than they've been getting. I know why Fehr doesn't think they should have to; I also know there'll be no meaningful negotiations until the players move into that universe.

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