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[Retired] Official Lockout Thread

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Oh GOD I'm trying so hard not to get my hopes up, but I will freely admit to getting butterflies in my belly when I saw all those tweets flying around. GREAT move in the right direction, don't think this will be the end of negotiations but it's a huge step forward.

Maybe the focus groups opened the league's eyes to how much they were despised by the majority of the fans and made them realize they needed to be the ones to initiate the concessions.

Oh PLEASE let something good happen, I was SO not looking forward to using my WC tix as toilet paper...

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McKenzie's twitter:

It seems like the broad strokes are there. Now they can hopefully start pulling some marathon negotiating sessions over the next several days to get this done.

Honestly if I were the players I'd think about wanting an 78-80 game season instead of trying to cram in the full 82. The season is too long as it is. I can't see the owners giving that up though.

Do you think the start of the playoffs will be pushed back to compensate, or will we see a compressed schedule?

They could just drop the All-star crap, in that case.

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Do you think the start of the playoffs will be pushed back to compensate, or will we see a compressed schedule?

They could just drop the All-star crap, in that case.

Bettman said compressed schedule, by each team playing an extra game every 5 weeks. Though, as some have already pointed out, that might not add up mathematically. Math hard!!

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Do you think the start of the playoffs will be pushed back to compensate, or will we see a compressed schedule?

They could just drop the All-star crap, in that case.

I wish they would just drop the all-star break. It's as worthless as teats on a boar hog.

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I wish they would just drop the all-star break. It's as worthless as teats on a boar hog.

LOL around here (aka in our house) we say as useless as t*ts on a shovel. Which, I agree, is what the all star break is if we can salvage a complete season without it.

Edited by BottleOfSmoke
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I don't think this really solves anything, other than Bettman/Phoenix and the 7 owners trying to look good to the media and fans. 1/3 of the teams are still almost bankrupt and without proper revenue sharing we'll have another lockout in 6 years.

The system needs to be properly fixed.

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I maybe one of the few that see it this way but...

I feel that it is quite ironic that shortly after the NHL hires some help from the GOP to help save face, they then offer a proposal that on the surface says we caved and this is completely fair, but in the details the league still gets all of there other demands yes ironed down a bit but all still mainly in tact. I believe firmly the NHLPA will respond with a counter offer instead of accepting which in turns makes fans turn against them. Which is exactly what the NHL wants and hired the GOP to help them do. To me this is just a face saving act.

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I don't think this really solves anything, other than Bettman/Phoenix and the 7 owners trying to look good to the media and fans. 1/3 of the teams are still almost bankrupt and without proper revenue sharing we'll have another lockout in 6 years.

The system needs to be properly fixed.

To me revenue sharing is a joke. If a team can't make it in a certain market...time to move on. What I have seen are teams like Nashville prime example the whole time they have been in the league have been one of the main teams to take advantage of revenue sharing by being cheap ass not giving guys what they are worth,never keeping players and so on but all of a sudden they have enough money to sign Weber to some astronomical deal??

"Come on Man!!"

I maybe one of the few that see it this way but...

I feel that it is quite ironic that shortly after the NHL hires some help from the GOP to help save face, they then offer a proposal that on the surface says we caved and this is completely fair, but in the details the league still gets all of there other demands yes ironed down a bit but all still mainly in tact. I believe firmly the NHLPA will respond with a counter offer instead of accepting which in turns makes fans turn against them. Which is exactly what the NHL wants and hired the GOP to help them do. To me this is just a face saving act.

would you rather not have a deal done at all? no matter what you feel this is a good deal for the player. they need to take it.

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To me revenue sharing is a joke. If a team can't make it in a certain market...time to move on. What I have seen are teams like Nashville prime example the whole time they have been in the league have been one of the main teams to take advantage of revenue sharing by being cheap ass not giving guys what they are worth,never keeping players and so on but all of a sudden they have enough money to sign Weber to some astronomical deal??

"Come on Man!!"

would you rather not have a deal done at all? no matter what you feel this is a good deal for the player. they need to take it.

I'm not saying I want them to decline it and counter, I just have a feeling this is the way it will go. Of course I want the season to start and this was a big stepping stone and maybe from here they can work out all the details. I think that they could reach an agreement very soon I just dont think it will be this exact offer.

Edited by Crashnburnluder

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I maybe one of the few that see it this way but...

I feel that it is quite ironic that shortly after the NHL hires some help from the GOP to help save face, they then offer a proposal that on the surface says we caved and this is completely fair, but in the details the league still gets all of there other demands yes ironed down a bit but all still mainly in tact. I believe firmly the NHLPA will respond with a counter offer instead of accepting which in turns makes fans turn against them. Which is exactly what the NHL wants and hired the GOP to help them do. To me this is just a face saving act.

There is some truth to this, but any rational person should understand that it would be unreasonable to simply expect the NHLPA to come back and say, yes, we like the deal, where do we sign. The good news I take from it is that the league moved a little, the league doesn't expect an outright acceptance, but they will expect it to move negotiations forward and there should be a counter off I would think...then some back and forth, hopefully a deal in the next week or so. I don't care about PR, I just want to see a deal.

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There is some truth to this, but any rational person should understand that it would be unreasonable to simply expect the NHLPA to come back and say, yes, we like the deal, where do we sign. The good news I take from it is that the league moved a little, the league doesn't expect an outright acceptance, but they will expect it to move negotiations forward and there should be a counter off I would think...then some back and forth, hopefully a deal in the next week or so. I don't care about PR, I just want to see a deal.

The NHL just got a serious boost to their PR. Reading the twitter and facebook posts have been quite an eye opener. Everyone is saying this is the best proposal yet. The NHLPA, which had the ball in their court after the NHL made a proposal last time, now still has the ball in their court and it looks like they are going to volley it back. The big question is, will it be a friendly volley or an aggressive "game point" volley. I think it is going to be a friendly return, but the NHLPA will ask for 52% or something along those lines.

Edited by Nightfall

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Mods please move/merge topic if needed...

Seems like a step in the right direction for both sides; similar to what we've seen in the NFL/NBA.

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“We made a proposal . . . that is our best shot at preserving an 82-game regular season and playoffs,” said Bettman. “We believe that this was a fair offer for a long-term deal, and it’s one that we hope gets a positive reaction so that we can drop the puck on Nov. 2 — which, backing up, entails at least a one-week training camp. So we have about nine or 10 days to get this all put to bed, signed, sealed and delivered, in order for this offer to be effective and for us to move forward.”

This was, in all honesty, his only shot to save the season. Until now, the rest has been ego.

“It’s not short and there are some explanatory documents we have to wade through. We have to make sure we read it completely and thoroughly, that we understand it,” said Fehr. “I would like to believe that after we’re done with this (review) that it will be an excellent starting point to see if there’s a deal to be made.”

I love Mr. Fehr.

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This was, in all honesty, his only shot to save the season. Until now, the rest has been ego.

I love Mr. Fehr.

I love how Bettman always says "I don't negotiate publicly" but then goes on to talk about the deal and spin things the owners way. The spin is understandable but no need to keep lying about it first. It's like when someone says "I'm not racist but..." You know what's coming next.

That aside, this is a very smart move by the NHL. They finally made a reasonable offer to negotiate from and included a timetable that would preserve an 82 game season. That way if a deal doesn't happen it's going to look more like the union's fault for costing games.

It's what I was getting at when I said long ago that the league is always bargaining from a position of greater power. It's ultimately their league. The players union could never have done something like this because they can't control the schedules and games like ownership. The league has positioned themselves to look like heroes for saving the season they were taking away.

A little more info about the deal from McKenzie's and Dreger's twitter:

Not only is NHL proposing 5 year limit on player contract length, it's proposing the yearly salary variance can't be more than 5 per cent.

In other words, a multi-year deal with an AAV of $10M would on a year by year basis not go up or down by more than $500K.

That 5 year term limit and the 5 per cent variance restriction are aimed at eliminating back-diving contracts, a primary NHL concern.

NHL's other big systemic concern is curtailing big-money 2nd contracts coming out of entry level. Proposal has 3 mechanisms aimed at that.

1. Entry level would go from 3 to 2 yrs. 2. Salary arb eligibility would go from 4th to 5th yr. 3. UFA goes 7/27 (service/age) to 8/28.

If player comes out of entry level 1 yr earlier, is 1 yr further away from salary arb and UFA, less pressure on teams to give big contract.

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Why did it take Uncle Gary and Uncle Bill-shut so long to do what they did today?

Uncle Gary is the greatest; just ask him.

On the other side of the coin....

Why didn't Uncle Fehr make the first major concession? I guess Uncle Gary cared a little bit more than Fehr. Especially after Fehr was given the last proposal and he chose not to negotiate by saying it wasn't a game of "ping-pong".

With one major move, the league has the attention of the fans, and most importantly, the players.

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Yay a start point and a good one at that. I am sure Fehr will offer an untouched UFA; ELC, status and a higher contract cap 5 years is just ridiculous.

Like I always said both sides need to move a little, lets say if the PA is giving back 5 % or more the league has to be flexible in terms of contracts, if both things are happening I am certain we will see hockey in 2013. There is no way they are going to play all 82 games by now.

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Why, in general, are players on Twitter saying this deal isn't good enough? What are they specifically unhappy about?

-------

Also, I am not a Gary Bettman fan whatsoever, but he deserves credit if/when a deal gets done. The NHL side has made serious concessions, it's the NHLPA's turn to do it within that 24-48 hour frame so we can get a deal done and hockey going. I know it's not popular, and Bettman probably won't get any credit, but his side surprised me today. I was not expecting a deal like this to at least start what is hopefully the deal to be done.

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Why, in general, are players on Twitter saying this deal isn't good enough? What are they specifically unhappy about?

-------

Also, I am not a Gary Bettman fan whatsoever, but he deserves credit if/when a deal gets done. The NHL side has made serious concessions, it's the NHLPA's turn to do it within that 24-48 hour frame so we can get a deal done and hockey going. I know it's not popular, and Bettman probably won't get any credit, but his side surprised me today. I was not expecting a deal like this to at least start what is hopefully the deal to be done.

People are making an incredible mistake here:

50/50 = - 7 % for the players

PLUS

ELC up from 3 to 4 years

UFA up from 7 to 8 years

contract lenght capped at 5 years

salary cap down by 10 million

Point 1 - 4 are things the NHL will have to change and it would be utterly stupid for the NHLPA to accept anything, without getting a hold of it first.

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I thought I read that the ELC remains at 3 years. But if that's truly all they need to tweak I'm extremely optimistic there will be a new CBA within the time frame to have an 82 game schedule

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People are making an incredible mistake here:

50/50 = - 7 % for the players

PLUS

ELC up from 3 to 4 years

UFA up from 7 to 8 years

contract lenght capped at 5 years

salary cap down by 10 million

Point 1 - 4 are things the NHL will have to change and it would be utterly stupid for the NHLPA to accept anything, without getting a hold of it first.

So let me get this right. You are the only one that doesn't think this is a good step in the right direction? I don't understand what you think the owners should have to give up. should it be more like a 70-30 split for the players or something and then you might be happy? I mean really.

50-50 is fine and fair seeing how bad they both want more than the other

ELC up from 3 to 4 years...why not? works for the nfl just fine.

UFA up from 7 to 8 years..no comment really

contract lenght capped at 5 years..my fav no more awful contract that we all have been complaining about that even our own players on the wings have.

salary cap down by 10 million...why not? keep it from getting out of hand like every other sport in the world.

my other fav is the 5 year contracts can only vary by 500k per year if i read that right. no more bottoms dropping out at the end of contracts

Edited by hillbillywingsfan
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So let me get this right. You are the only one that doesn't think this is a good step in the right direction? I don't understand what you think the owners should have to give up. should it be more like a 70-30 split for the players or something and then you might be happy? I mean really.

50-50 is fine and fair seeing how bad they both want more than the other

ELC up from 3 to 4 years...why not? works for the nfl just fine.

UFA up from 7 to 8 years..no comment really

contract lenght capped at 5 years..my fav no more awful contract that we all have been complaining about that even our own players on the wings have.

salary cap down by 10 million...why not? keep it from getting out of hand like every other sport in the world.

my other fav is the 5 year contracts can only vary by 500k per year if i read that right. no more bottoms dropping out at the end of contracts

First off, re-read my posting.

Second it is like Fehr said an excellent *starting point* but some tweaks need to be made.

I always thought even 7 years till UFA is too high, so no way the players should agree to 8.

Also I for gods sake don't care what other leagues are doing. If you have to ask why such a low salary cap is bad I don't know what to tell you...

I want to see superteams so the higher the better

Sent from my BlackBerry

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