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uk_redwing

[Retired] Official Lockout Thread

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Meeting done, next meeting tomorrow. Hate that no details are released, but happy at the same time since that is probably a good thing.

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I've also heard that 23/11/2012 is an important date from the standpoint the League and I know why. This kind of a deadline hasn't been staring the League in the face before these negotiations.

First scheduled game on NBC? I don't think the league places quite that much importance on it.

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I just find it amazing that both sides have spent more time negotiating in the last two days than they have in the last 6 months. Where was this sense of urgency in June/July? Just further proof that neither side deserves your financial support when the sport comes back. If both sides gave a crap, they would have been doing this in July instead of pontificating for the press and acting like spoiled brats.

I do hope a deal gets done soon so I can watch the Wings on TV again.

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I just find it amazing that both sides have spent more time negotiating in the last two days than they have in the last 6 months. Where was this sense of urgency in June/July? Just further proof that neither side deserves your financial support when the sport comes back. If both sides gave a crap, they would have been doing this in July instead of pontificating for the press and acting like spoiled brats.

I do hope a deal gets done soon so I can watch the Wings on TV again.

now now you know fehr and the nhlpa were just the victims here of the devil called bettman. give me a break.....Both sides are ridiculous. So sad that we lost the historical winter classic because of all of this. If I didn't love the sport so much and love watching it I would no longer be a fan of the nhl and would probably stop watching hockey all together.
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Well, both sides finally met for longer than 2 hours. It took 4.5 months for them to finally sit down and meet for 6-7 hours and then meet again tonight. I certainly hope real negotiations are happening. We don't know because both sides are tight lipped about what was discussed. Still, I applaud both sides for finally sitting down and getting down to brass tax. I hope it continues for the rest of the week or until a deal is done.

Have you ever been part of a negotiation? I'm sure both sides had no problem sitting down and meeting in June/July, but I can guarantee you that neither side would be willing to offer anything at all in terms of comprimises....why would they in June? Where's the pressure. I'm sorry, it's just the nature of the beast.

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Have you ever been part of a negotiation? I'm sure both sides had no problem sitting down and meeting in June/July, but I can guarantee you that neither side would be willing to offer anything at all in terms of comprimises....why would they in June? Where's the pressure. I'm sorry, it's just the nature of the beast.

I have never been part of a seriously big negotiation like this, but its hard for me to fathom why there has to be pressure in order to make progress. You are right though, its the nature of the beast I suppose. I just don't like the pontificating for the press while they weren't talking. Now, by them being silent for the press, they are getting down to business. Its a shame they couldn't have done this before damage was done.

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I have never been part of a seriously big negotiation like this, but its hard for me to fathom why there has to be pressure in order to make progress. You are right though, its the nature of the beast I suppose. I just don't like the pontificating for the press while they weren't talking. Now, by them being silent for the press, they are getting down to business. Its a shame they couldn't have done this before damage was done.

Yeah, but then we wouldn't have time to watch basketball! :scared:

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I have never been part of a seriously big negotiation like this, but its hard for me to fathom why there has to be pressure in order to make progress. You are right though, its the nature of the beast I suppose. I just don't like the pontificating for the press while they weren't talking. Now, by them being silent for the press, they are getting down to business. Its a shame they couldn't have done this before damage was done.

If there is a deadline by which you need to get something done....most people will withhold any and all potential concessions at least until such deadline as they wait to see if the other side bends. I don't see how it would work any different than that. The lockout is really a negotiation approach as well. There really doesn't have to be a lockout, it should be a last reasort, but with Bettman, he has shown time and time again that it is his first resort, that's how he negotiates (unless you simply give him what he wants up front). That said, if the owner's didn't lock out the players, they really wouldn't have much leverage in negotiations, so it's really hard to argue against it too much.

It looks like they may be planning on having discussions tomorrow as well, so I wouldn't be surprised if today's meeting results in the same thing as the last couple days (long meeting followed by no comments...commitment to meet the next day). I'm fine with that as it shows some progress must be occuring, but I'm getting impatient....is a deal getting done in the next several days or not.....need to know.

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If there is a deadline by which you need to get something done....most people will withhold any and all potential concessions at least until such deadline as they wait to see if the other side bends. I don't see how it would work any different than that. The lockout is really a negotiation approach as well. There really doesn't have to be a lockout, it should be a last reasort, but with Bettman, he has shown time and time again that it is his first resort, that's how he negotiates (unless you simply give him what he wants up front). That said, if the owner's didn't lock out the players, they really wouldn't have much leverage in negotiations, so it's really hard to argue against it too much.

It looks like they may be planning on having discussions tomorrow as well, so I wouldn't be surprised if today's meeting results in the same thing as the last couple days (long meeting followed by no comments...commitment to meet the next day). I'm fine with that as it shows some progress must be occuring, but I'm getting impatient....is a deal getting done in the next several days or not.....need to know.

If the players were going to not concede anything, then the lockout becomes the only option. Heck, it wasn't like Bettman hit the lockout button in late June. No traction was made so he locked them out. So if you understand that both sides hold all their cards until there is real pressure, then you should also understand why we are where we are right now. The players would not have negotiated and played under the existing deal for as long as possible so playing wouldn't have been an option either.

I do get what you are saying though, but as you said, you can't demonize bettman for locking the players out just based on what you know from negotiations and how both sides hold everything and concede nothing until there is real pressure.

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Meetings done for the day, but they're meeting again tomorrow.

Good sign, for sure. 4 straight days of meetings. Hopefully we're that much closer to a deal.

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Darren Dreger's tweeting this morning, providing a healthy dose of caution over the whole process...

Keep hearing about the owners targeting U.S Thanksgiving for start-up. I don't get that sense. If negotiations sour, owners will dig in.
Same resolve remains among players.They believe they've given enough (50-50).Critics of PA proposal (Wed) say its too similar to past offers
I understand negotiations...just don't see how the lockout ends anytime soon given the position of both sides.

And once more unto the breach... Today's meetings are underway.

LeBrun...

NHLPA says meeting with league just began and that there would likely be a couple of meetings today with breaks....

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A memo sent to the players last night by Fehr has made it's way to TSN, and it's available to read online. Sounds like the league is still asking for an immediate jump to 50/50, and has not let up on their contract restrictions (28/8 UFA, 5% year-to-year variation, 5 year max contract, etc).

Worth a read. In short, it highlights how even after 3 straight days there is still much work to be done.

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A memo sent to the players last night by Fehr has made it's way to TSN, and it's available to read online. Sounds like the league is still asking for an immediate jump to 50/50, and has not let up on their contract restrictions (28/8 UFA, 5% year-to-year variation, 5 year max contract, etc).

Worth a read. In short, it highlights how even after 3 straight days there is still much work to be done.

That's depressing.

It's great that they're finally actually meeting for longer sessions and for the first time are not lying when they say they don't negotiate publicly. But the situation sounds very much the same. An immediate 50/50 AND those contract restrictions? It doesn't sound like we're anywhere close to a deal.

It's so stupid. A 3 year step down to 50/50 seems pretty fair to me. It would make it less painful for teams to be under the cap with their existing contracts, and minimize the rollback on players salary. Then modify contract restrictions somewhat, specifically the term length to something like 6 or 7 years. 5% is too restrictive for variation, but some restriction (20%?) does make sense to prevent more cap circumvention. Leave the other ones alone, give or take tweaks.

I'm not even going to speculate on what's a fair "make-whole" provision because it's so convoluted. But the owners should definitely share the burden of paying out existing contracts.

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That's depressing.

It's great that they're finally actually meeting for longer sessions and for the first time are not lying when they say they don't negotiate publicly. But the situation sounds very much the same. An immediate 50/50 AND those contract restrictions? It doesn't sound like we're anywhere close to a deal.

Agreed. The main positive to take from this whole thing, however, is the fact that they're still negotiating. Since both sides seem all to quick to shoot down a proposal (in a matter of minutes, at times), the fact that they're still discussing ideas and working together is a big positive to take away.

It may be the only positive, if both sides are still so far apart...

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i don't like that the memo was leaked. what happened to staying away from all the pr stuff?

Edited by chances14

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i don't like that the memo was leaked. what happened to staying away from all the pr stuff?

That's much easier to accomplish on the NHL's side than the PA's. The League only has to control the 30 owners, plus a few staff who might be "in the know". Which is even easier with the threat of a $250,000 fine for speaking out of place.

The fact that the NHLPA is made up of around 700 players and then their own internal staff, a leak such as this becomes much more likely. It would be all but impossible to tell where the leak came from, if it were sent anonymously.

LeBrun is reporting that the first meeting (of several today) has wrapped up. Talks to resume at 2pmET.

First session is over. NHL and NHLPA will meet again at 2 pm ET

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I highly doubt Fehr would put anything inflammatory or confidential in a memo to players that could easily make it into the public's hands. I didn't read anything that memo that was different than their public stance on the matter, or even what Fehr might have said directly to Bettman or Daly. The NHLPA has made it clear that they are not happy with the limitations on future player contracts, and that an immediate rollback to 50/50 sharing (and drop of the salary cap) is not going to work.

I think the continued talks ARE encouraging. But Fehr is not going to really play ball until the owners make some type of concession on the existing contracts and the phase-in of the new distribution of HRR. We all hate the lockout, but there's this false causation I keep hearing from the fans, as if they're stuck in the 2004 logic and believe that you can fix teams like Phoenix, Dallas, etc. simply by throwing more of the money at all the owners. That didn't work in the '05 CBA, and it won't work now. The problem is in how league revenues are shared AMONGST the owners, and the fact that as soon as the new CBA is passed, the "have" GM's will figure out ways they can spend more than other teams to get an edge. Bettman isn't "learning" from this - Phoenix and the whole Western expansion is an albatross for this league, and he refuses to let the market correct it. You can also bet that he'll try to make up the money lost on this lockout with expansion fees (two new teams up to 32). People who think that the "greedy players" are the reason bad teams can't meet the cap floor without losing money are missing the whole point.

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