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[Retired] Official Lockout Thread

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Why would Fehr be canned?

The NHLPA has been a mess over the years but this seems the most stable they've been in a while.

And though people like to point to Fehr's strike that cost the MLB playoffs in 95 they overlook the massive collusion he busted the league on and the fact that he negotiated to two CBA's after 95 and that there's been labor peace in baseball since that strike.

Gary Bettman has never negotiated a CBA without a work stoppage. Fehr has. Twice.

Negotiating labor peace in the past does not excuse the gamesmanship that Fehr is demonstrating now. I think it is a no-brainer that Bettman should be fired, but the behavior of the league in these negotiations cannot be excused. Showing up late for meetings, not willing to bargain while last season was ongoing, and so on. The list just keeps going on and on.

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I think it is a no-brainer that Bettman should be fired, but the behavior of the league in these negotiations cannot be excused.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

55fan likes this

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At this point I really don't care anymore, they are meeting fine start the season whenever, but

seriously there needs to be an anti strike/lockout clause for the next CBA because this is turning into a big gongshow. I don' t care about the stupid PR war ge t a deal done or don't and for the NHL trying to pressure Fehr lol what a bunch of clowns. They either present a deal both can liife with fine or not.

I mean even 60 games would mean a real heavy load of games so..

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At this point I really don't care anymore, they are meeting fine start the season whenever, but

seriously there needs to be an anti strike/lockout clause for the next CBA because this is turning into a big gongshow. I don' t care about the stupid PR war ge t a deal done or don't and for the NHL trying to pressure Fehr lol what a bunch of clowns. They either present a deal both can liife with fine or not.

I mean even 60 games would mean a real heavy load of games so..

This will never happen, but the best way to get back at these clowns is if the fans stopped going to games. Let them play in arenas that are half-empty or even a quarter full.

Then, they'll realize that fans are actually important to their revenue. Right now, their feeling is that people will go to games no matter what. Very arrogant attitude. Kind of like oil companies. Except, I don't think hockey is as necessary to people as gasoline.

Bottom line, the fans should boycott. I'm talking about all fans, whether they be hardcore season ticket holders or not.

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Why would Fehr be canned?

The NHLPA has been a mess over the years but this seems the most stable they've been in a while.

And though people like to point to Fehr's strike that cost the MLB playoffs in 95 they overlook the massive collusion he busted the league on and the fact that he negotiated to two CBA's after 95 and that there's been labor peace in baseball since that strike.

Gary Bettman has never negotiated a CBA without a work stoppage. Fehr has. Twice.

fehr didn't end the 95 strike. the courts decided it for him. put an injuction on the owners.

Blame Fehr? You might as well; it'll take the pressure off Canada.

both sides are at fault here. i think that's pretty obvious by now.

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Bottom line, the fans should boycott. I'm talking about all fans, whether they be hardcore season ticket holders or not.

I agree 100%. I have already decided I won't be buying any tickets to any NHL games for a while. I certainly hope other fans do the same thing. With so much being put on gate receipts in the NHL, its important for fans to speak out against the actions of the NHL and NHLPA. The only money the NHL will see from me is what money they get from airing the games on TV and whatever money they get from me going to AHL games. I would rather watch local hockey than support the owners or players of the NHL. I certainly hope other fans follow suit.

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fehr didn't end the 95 strike. the courts decided it for him. put an injuction on the owners.

both sides are at fault here. i think that's pretty obvious by now.

Technically the players voted to end the strike if the courts supported the unfair labor practices complaint.

But if you reread my post you'll see I never claimed Fehr ended the strike. I said he's negotiated two CBA's after that without any work stoppage. There has been labor peace in baseball ever since the 95 strike.

Bettman on the other hand has never negotiated a CBA without locking the players out. Three CBA negotiations. Three lockouts. More lost games than any of the other major sports. He's not the only one at fault, but I think that track record is pretty damning.

I'm not claiming Fehr is innocent, but painting a bigger picture of Fehr's role in CBA negotiations beyond the 95 strike that everyone keeps referring to.

When they do finally agree on a CBA, the most important part will be the date it expires so we know when Bettman will lock players out again and can plan accordingly.

Negotiating labor peace in the past does not excuse the gamesmanship that Fehr is demonstrating now. I think it is a no-brainer that Bettman should be fired, but the behavior of the league in these negotiations cannot be excused. Showing up late for meetings, not willing to bargain while last season was ongoing, and so on. The list just keeps going on and on.

Remember how we talked about there not being any point in discussing this with each other and not replying ?

I think that's still the best choice.

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I wasn't saying that the CBA was the end-all and be-all deal. I was saying that the players had zero incentive to change it because the deal benefited them the most. If the NHL played hockey this year, then the players would have just sat on the deal and not negotiated at all. Why negotiate a deal that benefits the players the most?

What is it about the last CBA that benefited the players the most? I know the owners certainly thought they won big getting that one.

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What is it about the last CBA that benefited the players the most? I know the owners certainly thought they won big getting that one.

The 57% of revenues

The contract loopholes

The list goes on and on, but I firmly believe that the players have made out very well even with all the concessions they had to take in the last lockout. Hell, the owners were shelling out 76% of their revenues last time to player contracts before the lockouts. So the rollback was huge, but it needed to be.

Remember how we talked about there not being any point in discussing this with each other and not replying ?

I think that's still the best choice.

Yea, I agree. I don't think I replied to one of your posts though. If I did, then I apologize.

Just out of curiousity though, if Fehr did indeed delay the meetings until 4pm when they were supposed to start at 10am, does that seem right to you? I certainly do not like many things either side has done here, but this action by Fehr just seems childish.

Edited by Nightfall

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Yea, I agree. I don't think I replied to one of your posts though. If I did, then I apologize.

Just out of curiousity though, if Fehr did indeed delay the meetings until 4pm when they were supposed to start at 10am, does that seem right to you? I certainly do not like many things either side has done here, but this action by Fehr just seems childish.

You very clearly quoted me one page back in this post.

http://www.letsgowin...40#entry2333848

So you agree with me about us not discussing the CBA situation. But then in the same post you ask me a question and want me to discuss it with you?

Are you kidding me?

Please don't answer that. Seriously.

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You very clearly quoted me one page back in this post.

http://www.letsgowin...40#entry2333848

So you agree with me about us not discussing the CBA situation. But then in the same post you ask me a question and want me to discuss it with you?

Are you kidding me?

Please don't answer that. Seriously.

It wasn't a discussion, just a question. I would be taking your answer and moving on.

You don't have to answer if you don't want though.

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It wasn't a discussion, just a question. I would be taking your answer and moving on.

You don't have to answer if you don't want though.

I am on here to discuss the lockout, no disrespect to you or the moderator, but shouldn't this be a private conversation? Also a word to the wise, if the moderator says to stop talking/answering him (repeated times) it is wise to obey.

Anyways it appears this lockout is going to continue to carry on, just when I started to believe they were gaining some traction, holding secret meetings, every day all week. Then the nosey ass media has to track them down, and all of a sudden magically everything goes down the pipes... disgusting :nono:

Edited by Euro_Twins

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Why would Fehr be canned?

The NHLPA has been a mess over the years but this seems the most stable they've been in a while.

And though people like to point to Fehr's strike that cost the MLB playoffs in 95 they overlook the massive collusion he busted the league on and the fact that he negotiated to two CBA's after 95 and that there's been labor peace in baseball since that strike.

Right, Fehr is the reason why they'll probably get the CBA right this time, and there will be no more lockouts. This will take a while, because the last CBA was so screwed up!

If they went with the quick fix a month ago, there would have been a lockout in another 6 years, with the owners trying to get the players down to 45%.

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You very clearly quoted me one page back in this post.

http://www.letsgowin...40#entry2333848

So you agree with me about us not discussing the CBA situation. But then in the same post you ask me a question and want me to discuss it with you?

Are you kidding me?

Please don't answer that. Seriously.

since you seemed to dodge the question, i will ask it. do you think it's right that if the meeting was suppose to start at 10am, that fehr had didn't show up until 4?

now acording to this article, the the only major issue yet to be resolved is the player contracting issues.

After a week of negotiations, the N.H.L. and its players association have drawn close to agreement on several key issues, remaining far apart in only one main area: players’ contract rights.

But the two sides have made far more progress toward ending the lockout than is widely believed, according to a member of the union delegation who has attended the talks.

“We’re basically there” in several areas, according to the union delegate, who was granted anonymity because he was not authorized to comment publicly.

if the league wants a 5% max variance from one year to the next on player contracts (thus preventing cap circumvention, why is the nhl dead set on only limiting contract lengths to 5 years? seems like they should be able to easily give on that issue.

Edited by chances14

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since you seemed to dodge the question, i will ask it. do you think it's right that if the meeting was suppose to start at 10am, that fehr had didn't show up until 4?

I didn't dodge the question. If you've been following this thread at all you'll see why I didn't respond to him.

I honestly don't know about the 4 pm thing and don't really care. If Fehr was sitting there sipping coffee intentionally making the league wait, then obviously yes it was a stupid move. But I don't know what the actual context was, if it was a childish tactic by Fehr, if it's being misrepresented to try and make Fehr look bad. I'm sick of both Bettman and D. Fehr's posturing at this point. If they were paying attention the fans at all they'd sense by now they need to shut up and keep working on a deal if they ever want us to come back. No more finger pointing, no more publicity stunts. Cut the crap and make a deal.

I'm far from thinking Fehr and the union are perfect but any criticism I've had is ignored as some people label me a union slappy anyway.

Why do people care about my opinion on something that may or may not have happened?

now acording to this article, the the only major issue yet to be resolved is the player contracting issues.

if the league wants a 5% max variance from one year to the next on player contracts (thus preventing cap circumvention, why is the nhl dead set on only limiting contract lengths to 5 years? seems like they should be able to easily give on that issue.

On this I completely agree with you.

The owners are still expecting huge concessions from the players and conceding relatively little. As you point out the 5% variance (which I honestly think is a little low) will end the circumvention. So throw the players a bone and give them some job security in terms of contract length, like 8 years.

I'm hoping this isn't true (Larry Brooks is pretty openly for the players as far as I've seen), but he reported this.

For this from an individual in the room for Friday’s negotiating sessions and confirmed word-for-word by Slap Shots by a source across the aisle:

“Near the end of the meeting, Don [Fehr] said to Gary [bettman]: ‘Let me get this straight. Even if the players agree to every single component of the league’s economic plan, we still don’t have a deal unless we also agree to every one of your proposed changes to player contract rights?’ ”

To which, both of our sources reported, “Gary said: ‘Yes.’”

http://www.nypost.co...afgPLGAnT5fPrJN

If that's what's really being said in the room, I don't see how a deal is coming anytime soon.

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http://www.nypost.co...afgPLGAnT5fPrJN

If that's what's really being said in the room, I don't see how a deal is coming anytime soon.

Then on the flip side, you have reports coming out like this.

http://mobile.nytime...le-in-talks.xml

After a week of negotiations, the N.H.L. and its players association have drawn close to agreement on several key issues, remaining far apart in only one main area: players' contract rights.

That area remains thorny and could delay an end to the N.H.L. lockout, which reached its 57th day Sunday and concluded with gloomy news briefings from Bill Daly, the N.H.L. deputy commissioner, and Donald Fehr, the union's executive director. The sides remain divided over when players can become eligible for free agency, among other contract issues.

But the two sides have made far more progress toward ending the lockout than is widely believed, according to a member of the union delegation who has attended the talks.

"We're basically there" in several areas, according to the union delegate, who was granted anonymity because he was not authorized to comment publicly.

So I guess it depends on what you read and who you believe. You have different sources in New York here, both legit news sources, both portraying different types of info. One is totally negative, and the other is positive. I really don't know which one to believe.

Edited by Nightfall

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That article is basically saying the same thing regarding contract rights. Here's the sentences immediately after the portion you quoted.

Fehr and Commissioner Gary Bettman met Sunday afternoon at the N.H.L. office in New York along with their deputies for less than two hours of discussions on contract rights. Afterward, the two delegations broke to leave for Toronto and Monday's Hall of Fame induction ceremony.

Daly told reporters that "contract rights issues are very important to the clubs" and that because of the wide gulf between the two sides on those issues, "I don't know where to go."

Fehr said he did not "see a path to an agreement" on contract rights.

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That article is basically saying the same thing regarding contract rights. Here's the sentences immediately after the portion you quoted.

Ah, you are right. I was more commenting on the overall positivity or negativity of the article though. In one, there seems to be a negative tone, and in the one I linked its more positive.

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So I guess it depends on what you read and who you believe. You have different sources in New York here, both legit news sources, both portraying different types of info. One is totally negative, and the other is positive. I really don't know which one to believe.

that is true. but then you also have fehr saying in the leaked memo that they were far apart on the make whole provision. but then he comes out 24 hrs later and says that they are closer on economics than even the nhl thinks. so who knows whats really going on behind the scenes.

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