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uk_redwing

[Retired] Official Lockout Thread

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Leadership on the PA side has already been cleaned. Fehr has only been around for two years. He also played a part in resolving exactly this type of owner-player distrust/dislike in MLB.

Not really. They fired Paul Kelly because they felt he wasn't confrontational enough and they wanted somebody that could get under the owners skin. Fehr has no doubt accomplished that goal. I think some of the owners have developed a personal hate against fehr and I don't see that every going away so long as fehr is head of the pa. Both sides need a reset at the same time

That's rather vague. What could one side do that you would consider concentrating enough on getting a deal done?

examples of both sides not caring about getting a deal done and negotiating in bad faith:

-The owners insulting lowball first offer

-The union dragging its feet on getting negations going and then dragging its feet on putting forth proposals, especially in September and October

-The union not even running the numbers on their own proposals

-The owners take it or leave it approach to negotiating and setting pre conditions on meetings

-Fehr showing up hours late to meetings

-The owners trying to break up the union through pr stunts such as claiming that fehr is misinforming the players about their proposals

And the pr spin and bs by both sides throughout this process has been ridiculous.

I can go on and on with more instances of both sides negotiating in bad faith or simply not caring about getting a deal done.

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Some tweets. Just to get your hopes up...

And hopes shattered...

And Wysh is putting this out there. Once again, proceed cautiously with hopes...

http://sports.yahoo....15098--nhl.html

This would perhaps raise my hopes a few months ago, or even weeks ago, but after what happened last week I simply think it's all just BS. We had the same type of tweets all over the place last week, when they were actually meeting and getting really close to a deal, and somehow they still managed to screw everything up. I won't believe anything until the midget himself stands on a stool behind the podium and says they have reached an agreement.

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http://www.mlive.com...ral_mediat.html

The league and the players did not meet face-to-face Wednesday, as Beckenbaugh moved from room to room.

NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said during his media briefing that there was no progress and that there is no proposal on the table.

Marian Hosanna.

Edited by Dabura

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examples of both sides not caring about getting a deal done and negotiating in bad faith:

You've forgotten the single example of one side caring about getting a deal done and negotiating in good faith:

Mr. Fehr offered to go past the contract deadline, staringt the season on time, while maintaining negotiations and working out a new deal, which I image would have been retroactive to the end of the last agreement. This can be done and can work when both sides are close and feel that an agreement in a timely manner.

Sadly, this offer was summarily rejected by Uncle Gary because it wasn't his idea and it wasn't part of the "script" he had already created and was about to implement...regardless.

As the head of an organization, Uncle Gary has a real tough time admitting that he has made mistakes that should be corrected sooner rather than later.

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You've forgotten the single example of one side caring about getting a deal done and negotiating in good faith:

Mr. Fehr offered to go past the contract deadline, staringt the season on time, while maintaining negotiations and working out a new deal, which I image would have been retroactive to the end of the last agreement. This can be done and can work when both sides are close and feel that an agreement in a timely manner.

Sadly, this offer was summarily rejected by Uncle Gary because it wasn't his idea and it wasn't part of the "script" he had already created and was about to implement...regardless.

As the head of an organization, Uncle Gary has a real tough time admitting that he has made mistakes that should be corrected sooner rather than later.

Mr. Fehr would have been more than willing to play out another 10 years under the current CBA because the Players were making 57% of the revenues. It was, by and far, a more superior deal to the players. Fehr would have then dragged his feet, like he did when he decided to start negotiating in June/July, and never negotiated a new CBA if they started playing under the current CBA. In order for negotiations to occur and both sides to be engaged, the current deal has to be scrapped. Otherwise, the party that is getting the better deal, will not feel a sense of urgency to negotiate.

Not that Fehr knows any kind of urgency when it comes to negotiating. His thumb was planted firmly in his ass until June, and then he sat on it a bit more before giving his first offer to the NHL.

As the heads of the NHL and the NHLPA, both Bettman and Fehr have failed the sport of hockey miserably. They have also failed the fans, NHL employees, and every business owner that relies on the NHL games to make a profit or to survive.

Edited by Nightfall

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From Dreger...

Mediator will speak with PA this morning. If he concludes a deal is close he will recommend meeting. Flip-side...neg (negative conclusion) returns to square 1.
NHL has delivered the message it is pretty much a take it or leave it, however, that doesn't mean the league won't trade on certain things.

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Owners making money, players making money and playing hockey, support staff making money and happy fans spending money.

Yes, that plan had "fail" all over it.

Since everyone discounted the Forbes report and 18 teams losing money, and everyone thinks that each club making $3.5 million for the season was plenty for "billionaire owners", there really isn't much to say. Do I believe that the ownership has a right to make more? Yes I do. I would feel the same way if the players were making 43% and went on strike in order to obtain an equal share.

The system did need fixing, but I will say this much, the system that Bettman is proposing has fail written all over it. Fehr's plan is a bit better.

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Guest RedWingsDad   
Guest RedWingsDad

Since everyone discounted the Forbes report and 18 teams losing money, and everyone thinks that each club making $3.5 million for the season was plenty for "billionaire owners", there really isn't much to say. Do I believe that the ownership has a right to make more? Yes I do. I would feel the same way if the players were making 43% and went on strike in order to obtain an equal share.

The system did need fixing, but I will say this much, the system that Bettman is proposing has fail written all over it. Fehr's plan is a bit better.

Out of curiosity, what do you think is negative about Bettman's plan, and what makes Fehr's plan better?

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Dreger tweets...

League and PA brass met this morning, however no decision has been made on a more formal meeting later today.

...and NUH UUUUUHHHH!!!!

Well, one side says there was a meeting this am and now the other side says there wasn't. Somewhat humorous.

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I saw that too. Quite humorous indeed. Can't even agree that they had a meeting or not.

Whoever called negotiations a Gong Show up thread was spot on. I'm starting to hear the Benny Hill theme music anytime someone reports on progress (or lack thereof).

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Wonder if Saint Fehr will be Knighted like Sir Elton John for eventually saving the NHL and it's players. He is a modern day Mother Teresa.

Saint Fehr has already risen from the dead once. I read about that in Sunday school. After he and Bettman flush what is left of the NHL down the toilet, I hear all of his fans and constituents will praise him for a job well done while Bettman will take the brunt of the blame for the lockout. Mission accomplished!

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Gary, Bill, Don: Get off the message boards and get back to work negotiating. We don't care if you're not accomplishing anything in the meeting rooms. At least the you only annoy us through the media.

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Not really. They fired Paul Kelly because they felt he wasn't confrontational enough and they wanted somebody that could get under the owners skin. Fehr has no doubt accomplished that goal. I think some of the owners have developed a personal hate against fehr and I don't see that every going away so long as fehr is head of the pa. Both sides need a reset at the same time...

Or one might say Kelly was fired because players felt he was too concilliatory; more concerned with avoiding a lockout than representing the players' best interests. They wanted someone who would fight for them.

The players wouldn't be happy with doormat leadership, nor would the owners ever respect the PA if they could walk all over them. To end the labor strife, the two sides have to respect each other. Deservingly or not, I'd think Bettman has permantently lost any chance of gaining the respect of the PA. Three long lockouts is just too much. I don't know if there's any chance the owners will develop any respect for Fehr or the PA, but I think he deserves a shot. Likely no one thought the strife in MLB would have ended, yet Fehr was able to work with Selig of all people, who was responsible for a fair part of the hostility between those two sides.

examples of both sides not caring about getting a deal done and negotiating in bad faith:

...

That wasn't the question I asked.

If the PA had started negotiating in January, making proposals every week, not talking to the media at all, Fehr on time for every meeting, but their offer now was still the same...do you think the owners would accept it? If not, would you be still be satisfied that the PA cared about getting a deal done?

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That wasn't the question I asked.

If the PA had started negotiating in January, making proposals every week, not talking to the media at all, Fehr on time for every meeting, but their offer now was still the same...do you think the owners would accept it? If not, would you be still be satisfied that the PA cared about getting a deal done?

If the pa had done all of those things we wouldn't be in this situation right now in my opinion.

But hypothetically, if they did and their offer was still the same and we ended up in the same situation as we are right now, then I would be satisfied with the pa and I would put all the blame on the owners.

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Per Dreger:

Wild speculation ranging from potential deals to decertification.Both sides still have plenty of fight. As for decert, it would kill the yr.

I don't think the NHLPA should decertify, but I'm back to the point of just saying screw it, lose the season. Fire Bettman. Burn it to the ground and start over.

I'm gonna be too pissed off to watch hockey for a while anyway.

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