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uk_redwing

[Retired] Official Lockout Thread

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If the league was ready to negotiate in January, why haven't they started yet.

I don't think either side has been negotiating in good faith. Which is why fans should be pissed off at the players and the league for screwing up such a simple negotiation and losing at least 1/2 a season.

If he didn't mean it, Uncle Gary shouldn't have said it. Then again, he knew he was going to "turn the key" on 15/09/2012.

Sorry, but I don't believe the owners had any plan to lock the players out in September when this was discussed in January. I bet the owners thought a deal could be made. They just didn't expect Fehr to come to the table in late June and then delay until the end of July before handing over his first proposal.

i think this "we were wronged" attitude is partly to blame in all of this

Sorry, but the players are not going to get any sympathy from me. The players were making over 70% of the revenues before the 04-05 lockout. Over 70%. Does that seem right to anyone because it certainly doesn't to me.

So they went down from 70% to 57%. Fehr calls it huge concessions. To which I respond that it was going to happen. The goose that laid that golden egg died off.

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this legal analyst from sportsnet doesn't believe for a second that the players will win this in courts

http://www.sportsnet..._antitrust_law/

Thank you for posting this article. It was very easy to understand and very insightfull.

Seems the players are playing a very dangerous game with this 'disclaimer of interest'-voting!

It either force the owners back to the table and come to a deal in the middle or...

The owners don't bite and will await judge decision (which is a good chance it will favors the owners) and then they can really stick it to the players.

It will then shift from the owners driving the car with the players in the passenger seat to the owners driving the car with the players tied up in the trunk.

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11b849ac481f879c416529bc7de3.jpg

TSN's Legal Look: The NHL'S Lawsuit and What's Next.

From Toronto Star's NHL lockout: What you need to know:

INTERESTING FUTURE DATE

Under their new 10-year contract, NBC’s slate of weekend games is scheduled to begin Jan. 20.

It's a good thing the League got their money back early. Wonder why that happened?

Isn't the average length of a player's career shorter than the average length of an owner's career running a team?

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I don't think either side has been negotiating in good faith. Which is why fans should be pissed off at the players and the league for screwing up such a simple negotiation and losing at least 1/2 a season.

Sorry, but I don't believe the owners had any plan to lock the players out in September when this was discussed in January. I bet the owners thought a deal could be made. They just didn't expect Fehr to come to the table in late June and then delay until the end of July before handing over his first proposal.

Sorry, but the players are not going to get any sympathy from me. The players were making over 70% of the revenues before the 04-05 lockout. Over 70%. Does that seem right to anyone because it certainly doesn't to me.

So they went down from 70% to 57%. Fehr calls it huge concessions. To which I respond that it was going to happen. The goose that laid that golden egg died off.

To me, negations should have began last summer (2011) so there is plenty of time to discuss issues without threats of lockout, strike, or most of the shenanigens both sides have done.

Has the league released their financials this go-a-round? I am of the belief that the NHL plays a bigger shell game with it's revenue than other leagues. I could see something along the lines of the Wings making crap profit, but Olympia Entertainment having a record year as an example.

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It will then shift from the owners driving the car with the players in the passenger seat to the owners driving the car with the players tied up in the trunk.

The purpose of this lockout is to establish that very dynamic. The owners are saying, Hey. We own you. You don't get to play ball with us, not this time, not ever again. You're going to give us what we want, and we're not going to give you anything. Don't like it? Walk.

Unless the players win in court, The Trunk Era is already upon us.

Edited by Dabura

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This purpose of this lockout is to establish that very dynamic. The owners are saying, Hey. We own you. You don't get to play ball with us, not this time, not ever again. You're going to give us what we want, and we're not going to give you anything. Don't like it? Walk.

Unless the players win in court, The Trunk Era is already upon us.

I wouldn't say they are taking everything away from the players. I think the owners are seeing other sports where the players are getting paid way over what any human being playing a sport should be paid. They are trying to put a cap on it right now before it does get out of hand and there is no turning back. It's really the owners protecting themselves from themselves. Owners should be making more than players...it's just that simple and that's pretty much in any business. No owners...no owners money being put up....no risk being taken by the owners on players....no league...no place to play in the US and or Canada.

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How bad is the NHL Lockout being viewed in terms of PR and public perception? Think BP Oil Spill bad...

A disastrous map would be the one Level5 (A PR Consulting Company) created following the BP PLC oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico in 2010. It was the worst the company had seen...

...until it got around to the NHL this month.

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I understand that this issue can skate perilously close to the line that divides hockey and politics, but please remember that LGW is an established "Politics Free Zone". Please keep your discussion in line with hockey and the CBA, and leave the issues of Capitalism, Stalin, et al for another discussion board.

As Harold has pointed out previously, we're resorting to deleting entire posts rather than selective editing. So keep your posts on topic, or watch them be deleted entirely.

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Woe to whichever side loses this court battle. They're playing a game of chicken, and whoever comes out on top is going to absolutely neuter the other bunch. Especially for the players. If a judge should rule against them in all of this, then the deal they'll be forced to accept will be MUCH more lopsided then the one they turned down a couple weeks ago.

Hope your lawyers are good ones boys. I'm sure both sides' legal teams are telling them it's in the bag, but only one is telling the true. The other side, no matter who it is, will wish they'd be a little more reasonable two weeks ago.

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Woe to whichever side loses this court battle. They're playing a game of chicken, and whoever comes out on top is going to absolutely neuter the other bunch. Especially for the players. If a judge should rule against them in all of this, then the deal they'll be forced to accept will be MUCH more lopsided then the one they turned down a couple weeks ago.

Hope your lawyers are good ones boys. I'm sure both sides' legal teams are telling them it's in the bag, but only one is telling the true. The other side, no matter who it is, will wish they'd be a little more reasonable two weeks ago.

I'm afraid you are absolutely right. It was fairly clear to any bystander that he players were likely to lose in a showdown ith the owners, if only because of the vast disparity in resources. But being pro athletes, the players HATE to lose. In anything. And they all believe that they lost in the last lockout. So I fear this is no longer about the money on the players part. This is about victory. At this point, even if the owners accept the players proposal today, the players will never recoupe the lost salaries. The rational reasons for the players stubborness are exausted. But this is not about the money. Probably never was.

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Thank goodness for the Sony Playstation Network! It helped restore a bit of my sanity during this lockout.

I just downloaded and watched the December 2, 1995 Detroit-Montreal game, where we chased Roy outta the net and outta Montreal in a 12-1 blowout. :yahoo:

Rick D, 55fan and F.Michael like this

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Not sure if this was posted. But was reading local website here in Toronto and seen this article with Mike Babcock.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/12/18/red-wings-coach-mike-babcock-nhl-could-end-up-like-bowling

He's absolutely right. It took them soo long just to build it to what it was, now they are dropping back 5 steps to where they were before.

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I've thought about this for a while, but would this might be another victim of Uncle Gary's "plan"? from Toronto Star:

This might have gotten lost in the endless blather about the

NHL player lockout

, but there’s a chance the participation of NHL players at the 2014 Olympic men’s hockey tournament also could be a casualty of the current idiocy.

It would take him out of a rather "sticky situation", based on his well-documented views on the topic.

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Not sure if this was posted. But was reading local website here in Toronto and seen this article with Mike Babcock.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/12/18/red-wings-coach-mike-babcock-nhl-could-end-up-like-bowling

He's absolutely right. It took them soo long just to build it to what it was, now they are dropping back 5 steps to where they were before.

According to the article, ratings of NHL games after the last lockout were less than the WNBA.... Mother of god, that's bad. Less than 1/3 of the viewers than the year before the lockout.

I bet after this one, it's even lower than before.. Social media plays a big role in that.

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This is what stands out to me. The league will not be stable unless they address the problem at hand...and that's not player salaries.

It’s not a coincidence that the most successful North American sports league also has the most rational approach to revenue sharing. Some 60% of the NFL’s $11 billion revenue pie is shared, which is why tiny Green Bay, Wisconsin can compete with big bad New York or Chicago. The other two Big Three leagues aren’t quite as egalitarian but have improved their models in recent years: MLB teams share nearly a third of local TV revenue, while NBA teams reportedly approach a 50% total revenue share (give or take a few complex calculations).

The NHL, meanwhile, has been sharing 4.5% of its $3.3 billion revenue (with not much more on the table in current talks.)

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This is what stands out to me. The league will not be stable unless they address the problem at hand...and that's not player salaries.

Any company that turns a 3.3 billion dollar profit is "stable" and the NHL is no different. It looks less stable because it shares less money which, as the article you linked points out, is what keeps small market teams in the other leagues competitive. The only thing that restricts the NHL's growth potential compared to the NBA, NFL, or MLB is that it really can't be played by kids growing up down south. And without a lifelong commitment to a game, it's hard to build fans. Other than that, it's no less "stable" than any of the other major leagues.

Edited by kipwinger

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The funny part about this:

We're only hearing about the problems and how bad they are, when the CBA is up other than that the league is always thriving and bringing in record numbers. Go figure something is obviosuly wrong here.

But if both sides are really that stupid and blow the second season in 7 years away screw them all.

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Any company that turns a 3.3 billion dollar profit is "stable" and the NHL is no different.

After 120 pages of discussion there really should be no confusion between profit and revenue. 3.3 billion is NHL's revenue (according to whatever was the definition of hockey-related revenue in old CBA). Profit is more or less what is left from these 3.3 billion after all expenses including players salary are paid. I think the league if profitable as a whole, but few teams (like Toronto) generate most of that profit (and revenues for that matter).

Having said that I do agree with the premise of the article. Before complaining about hardship owners only need collectively to look in the mirror for the cause. Players did not exactly went on strike fighting for more money. They just took what GMs offered.

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After 120 pages of discussion there really should be no confusion between profit and revenue. 3.3 billion is NHL's revenue (according to whatever was the definition of hockey-related revenue in old CBA). Profit is more or less what is left from these 3.3 billion after all expenses including players salary are paid. I think the league if profitable as a whole, but few teams (like Toronto) generate most of that profit (and revenues for that matter).

Having said that I do agree with the premise of the article. Before complaining about hardship owners only need collectively to look in the mirror for the cause. Players did not exactly went on strike fighting for more money. They just took what GMs offered.

Point taken, however if you look at most professional sports leagues (or maybe all of them) there is some sort of revenue sharing agreement. The fact that some teams lose money does not mean the league as a whole is unstable. One could easily say the same thing about the MLB where the league is doing just fine, but A LOT of teams lose money.

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Point taken, however if you look at most professional sports leagues (or maybe all of them) there is some sort of revenue sharing agreement. The fact that some teams lose money does not mean the league as a whole is unstable. One could easily say the same thing about the MLB where the league is doing just fine, but A LOT of teams lose money.

I do not disagree on revenue sharing. Rich teams do need opponents to generate their large revenues so they might as well share the proceeds. And fans probably do want to see their team beat up on poor southern cousins once in a while.

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From TSN:

National Hockey League deputy commissioner Bill Daly believes there's still hope for an NHL season.

Daly appeared on HNIC Radio on Wednesday and was direct in his answer when pressed on his outlook for a 2012-13 NHL season.

When asked: "Yes or no, do we have a season?", his answer was clear.

"Yes," said Daly.

Daly expanded on his comments on TSN Radio 1290 Winnipeg's Hustler and Lawless show later in the day.

"I tend to be more optimistic than some of the people I work with," Daly said. "The bottom line is – [and] my view on this has been the same from the start – there's no reason we shouldn't be playing hockey."

"I'd like to think that at the end of the day that reason will prevail," he added, "and if reason prevails, we'll play a hockey season this year."

This is an excellent example of "lip service".

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