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Konnan511

2013 BlueAdams Where Are You, Line Thread

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Why are you still comparing Hossa and Franzen? Because they were both on the same team at the same time and because they were both free agents at the same time? They are not the same type of player and never have been. It's like comparing Lecavalier and Stamkos. If those two were free agents at the same time, and Tampa kept Stamkos and let Lecavalier walk, nobody would say that they kept Stamkos to be Tampa's new power forward.

Also, Datsyuk and Malkin play the same position, and are both much more dangerous with the puck than without it. They both can't have it at once.

I agree that the Wings need more shooters, but arguing that they should acquire a shooter by losing a power forward creates one hole while replacing another.

Now if you were to say "move Franzen and player X for Backes or Lucic" or someone like that, I would entertain your thoughts, because they are similar style players with varying degrees of success.

But at the end of the day, if you have a line which consists of a shooter-playmaker-shooter, or playmaker-playmaker-power forward, or power forward-playmaker-power forward, then you've got too many people on one line that do the same things.

Power forward-Playmaker-Shooter is the way to go. If you had a line of Datsyuk, Radim Vrbata, and Franzen it would decimate this league and wouldn't require an all star like Hossa or Kovalchuk either.

Franzen is the closest thing we have to a sniper and the closest thing we have to a power forward. We need more of these type of players. I would still give him up with a package to get Lucic or Backes because they are also power forwards, younger and so much more physical.

Of course everybody would have preferred Hossa even Kenny but we couldn't afford him.

Edited by Johnz96

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Franzen is the closest thing we have to a sniper and the closest thing we have to a power forward. We need more of these type of players.

Of course everybody would have preferred Hossa even Kenny but we couldn't afford him.

Again, I don't see why people say Franzen is the closest thing we have to a sniper, most of his goals come from high traffic areas and down around the crease. The closest thing we have to a sniper is Zetterberg, who loves to shoot and typically scores from the perimeter. When Datsyuk and Zetterberg played together, Datsyuk carried the puck, drew the coverage, and set up Zetterberg for the finish. That's why Zetterberg scored way more often back then (and not coincidentally, why Datsyuk had more assists back then). But they still needed a guy to bang in the dirty goals, which is what Holmstrom did.

Obviously Zetterberg can do more than just shoot, but on a team of limited "pure shooters" he's the closest thing we've got to one. Not Franzen.

Now hopefully Brunner will be that, since all that guy does is shoot. And if you watch most of his highlights with Zetterberg you'll notice that Z carries the puck, draws the coverage, finds Brunner in open areas, and Brunner finishes. Just like is should be.

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I'm not sure why labels matter when we all know exactly what type of players our guys are. Labels are used to easily categorize, but we're already acquainted with the play style of a guy like Franzen. Unfortunately, there's Franzen the power forward sniper, which is what he is when he wants to skate and play hard. Then there's Franzen the slow dangler who looks for the perfect shot, who is neither sniper nor power forward when he floats.

LeftWinger, Konnan511, Nev and 1 other like this

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It won't matter soon, this summer Kenny will go balls out for either Corey Perry or Ryan Getzlaf. I'd like to see Perry together with Dats...er, playing to together that is.

I am only coparing Franzine and Hossa because one was chosen over the other and he has under performed. Hossa hasn't torn up Chicago, but he was a better compliment to Datsyuk. Neither here nor there, we have Franzine and unless Kenny deals him for something that fits better, we are stuck with him. It just gives me someone to blame for shortcomings of the team.

I do agree that a perfect top line would be a shooter - PM - power forward. Problem is, if Franzine is the best thing we have to a power forward we are in deep doo-doo. Add to that we don't yet have the shooter and that is why Datsyuk's stats continue to suffer...

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Fil - Pasha - Mule ------ SNP - PLY - PWF ------ Fil looks like he's becoming a more confident shooter

Goose - Hank - Brunner -- PLY - PLY - SNP ------ Need another PWF

Cleary - Helm - Logo ---- TWF - GRN - TWF ------ Good 3rd scoring line

Tuzzi - Abby - Toots ---- PWF - GRN - GRN ------ Physical line with scoring touch

Really liking the bottom 6 out of all of this. I think our bottom 6 could be our game changer this year. I think a lot is riding on how Goose and Brunner perform, obviously, but also Fil. Whether he continues to produce at a high level or not will be big.

Edited by number9

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Flips/Gus, Datsyuk, Franzen

Gus/Flips, Zetts, Brunner (Zetterberg and Brunner have been playing on the same line all season so far)

Bert, Helm, Sammy

Miller/Tootoo, Abby, Mursak/Cleary

Emmerton...we have too many forwards.

Kronwall/White

Big E/Quincey

Kindl/Smith

Howie

Monster

The Defense looks decent. It's up to Babcock to bring out it's potential. The offense, though. You can tell there's a lot of different options you can take. I, myself, would go Flips/Dats/Mule for first line. Gus/Zetts/Brunner for the 2nd. A Bert/Helm/Sammy 3rd line isn't bad either (skill/power/speed. Sammy seems to be a guy who's a jack of all trades).

The 4th line. Again, we have that issue with the 4th line. Miller? Excellent winger. I believe Abby is an excellent winger as well, but a mediocre center. But I think he's better than Emmerton, for now. But if he out plays Abby out of center, Abby is playing winger, for sure. That leaves Miller/Cleary/Mursak to fight it out.

We have too many forwards, and our 4th line is a potential mess.

EDIT: Tootoo? Bring him in when you need him. Although, we may play him simply because of presence. That still leaves too many bodies that can't fill the 4th line.

Edited by Dynheart

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Fil - Pasha - Mule ------ SNP - PLY - PWF ------ Fil looks like he's becoming a more confident shooter

Goose - Hank - Brunner -- PLY - PLY - SNP ------ Need another PWF

Cleary - Helm - Logo ---- TWF - GRN - TWF ------ Good 3rd scoring line

Tuzzi - Abby - Toots ---- PWF - GRN - GRN ------ Physical line with scoring touch

Really liking the bottom 6 out of all of this. I think our bottom 6 could be our game changer this year. I think a lot is riding on how Goose and Brunner perform, obviously, but also Fil. Whether he continues to produce at a high level or not will be big.

Who is Logo and where's Sammy

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Who is Logo and where's Sammy

Had to check your join date.

Sammy (in his last run with the Wings) was known as the Logohunter and Shinguard Assassin due to his tendency to hit the chests and shins of goalies and/or opponents blocking his shots.

He was also clutch and became one of my faves.

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Flips/Gus, Datsyuk, Franzen

Gus/Flips, Zetts, Brunner (Zetterberg and Brunner have been playing on the same line all season so far)

Bert, Helm, Sammy

Miller/Tootoo, Abby, Mursak/Cleary

Emmerton...we have too many forwards.

Kronwall/White

Big E/Quincey

Kindl/Smith

Howie

Monster

The Defense looks decent. It's up to Babcock to bring out it's potential. The offense, though. You can tell there's a lot of different options you can take. I, myself, would go Flips/Dats/Mule for first line. Gus/Zetts/Brunner for the 2nd. A Bert/Helm/Sammy 3rd line isn't bad either (skill/power/speed. Sammy seems to be a guy who's a jack of all trades).

The 4th line. Again, we have that issue with the 4th line. Miller? Excellent winger. I believe Abby is an excellent winger as well, but a mediocre center. But I think he's better than Emmerton, for now. But if he out plays Abby out of center, Abby is playing winger, for sure. That leaves Miller/Cleary/Mursak to fight it out.

We have too many forwards, and our 4th line is a potential mess.

EDIT: Tootoo? Bring him in when you need him. Although, we may play him simply because of presence. That still leaves too many bodies that can't fill the 4th line.

Your 4th line has to be Miller - Abby - Tootoo in your scenario...Eaves is still hurt (?) and Emmy/Mursak just aren't gonna crack this lineup. Best to trade one of them and deal with the other when Eaves returns. Which may not be until next season anyhow. I guess I would keep Mursak over Emmy.

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Your 4th line has to be Miller - Abby - Tootoo in your scenario...Eaves is still hurt (?) and Emmy/Mursak just aren't gonna crack this lineup. Best to trade one of them and deal with the other when Eaves returns. Which may not be until next season anyhow. I guess I would keep Mursak over Emmy.

Yes, no progress. He's still showing symptoms.

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Yes, no progress. He's still showing symptoms.

So he may as well stay away the entire 48 games. That leaves us with MIller/Emmy/Mursak as the rotating crew with another roster player and I think that is still one man too many...but it is a 24 man roster, so maybe that will work out, even moreso if Nyquist stays in GR.

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<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="joesuffP" data-cid="2338742" data-time="1357714791"><p>

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Franzen<br />

Brunner-Flippula-Sammy<br />

Bertuzzi-Helm-Cleary<br />

Tootoo-Abdelkader-Miller<br />

<br />

Looks good to me</p></blockquote>

Not to me. Looks like if they shut our 1st line down, we're screwed.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Brunner

Franzen-Filppula-Selanne

Nyquist-Helm-Samuelsson

Tootoo-Abdelkader-Cleary

That looks quicker and deeper to me.

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they're loading up the top line?

horrible idea.

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<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Flipper51" data-cid="2338781" data-time="1357743035"><p>

top 2 lines are almost identical to those that we had in 2008 when we won the cup. (Other than Brunner for Homer)</p></blockquote>

5 years older isnt good unless they were all 22 in 2008.

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I love throwing Brunner with Zett AND pasha. Are we putting too many eggs in a basket? Possibly. But we do what we always do, rely on our role players. We always have, and will continue to do that. Our bottom 6 looks very nice to me honestly, and I think they will produce going against most other 3rd/4th lines. Zett-Pash-Brun throws a big threat on the ice and allows for Brunner to really showcase his shot. He has two amazing play makers, both that can convert when given the chance always. Brunner showed that he can throw his body infront of the net and make the noise, although I would rather him playing the perimeter for shots. I feel like that will be a workhorse lineup and they'll most likely tire out some lines with their cycles. Fran-Filp-Sammy could work... but it's not the best. I agree that Cleary-Helmer-Bert could do some damage together. All three of them are workhorses, helmer 24/7, bert when he wants to be, and sammy can just continue throw pucks into non-existent shooting lanes. Finish off with a rough bottom 4th line and you can quickly tire out a group.

EDIT: added quote

About Mike Babcock

he likes to joke he makes all his plans on napkins, because that's how much faith he has they'll hold up.
Edited by evilzyme

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Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Brunner --- a chimpanzee on skates could perform with Z and D feeding him

Goose - Filppula - Franzen ------- decent 2nd line

Cleary - Helm - Bertuzzi ------------ like someone said "will feast on other 3rd lines"

Tootoo - Abby - Sammy ------------ grinding with point production

Edited by number9

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<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Flipper51" data-cid="2338781" data-time="1357743035"><p>

top 2 lines are almost identical to those that we had in 2008 when we won the cup. (Other than Brunner for Homer)</p></blockquote>

5 years older isnt good unless they were all 22 in 2008.

Oh I totally agree. I don't mind Babs putting together Pav and Z, but I hate that Sammy is on the second with Fil and the Mule and that Goose isn't given a top 6 opportunity. If I was going to have Pav and Z together I'd go with something like this...

Z-Pav-Goose/Brunner- Pav and Z do there thing and either Brunner or Goose can play with the two.

Mule- Fil- Goose/Brunner- Fil and the Mule have always had chemistry and Goose or Brunner would be a very good compliment to those two.

Cleary-Helm-Sammy- Helm is Helm, hopefully Cleary can play like his former self and Sammy can get pucks on net for those two to create havoc around it.

Bert- Abby- Tootoo- I really feel like this can be the very best fourth line in the league. They will grind you out and can put up some very good numbers for a fourth line.

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