Howard = Average

[WINGS TILL DEATH 9]

Howard has a top 5ish season out of goalies in the NHL this season. Tied for the lead in shutouts, was amongst the games played leaders (hes a workhorse), very high save percentage, great GAA (team stat but still) and had no help from back ups. Look at the stats of back up goalies of goalies that you think were better and look at Howards help he had. Its not close.

I wouldnt say elite, but well above average number 1. If he has another season like this one youre looking at a guy you can call one of the elite NHL goalies

Not to mention he's doing this with an inexperienced D in front of him. Just wait till this D gets solid.

[Opie 308]

Not to mention he's doing this with an inexperienced D in front of him. Just wait till this D gets solid.

I think what we saw towards the end of the season, is truly what we should expect from Howard and the D corps.

Now not 2 shutouts every 5 games kind of deal, but very solid, smart play.

Everyone seems to have a role and know what it is now that Dekeyser has stepped up.

In the next few years I think you see this D rounding into the Wings D we saw after the last lockout with potential to be as good as the D was recently.

They will never replace Lids, but Dekeyser's style is similar enough that now they can began to reshape the D the way it was a few years back.

They just need to replace the Rafalski/Schnieder blast from the point, maybe that is Quincey, the crappy announcers last night loved his shot!

[Crashnburnluder 385]

Howard gave us a chance to win last night, and all our skaters could do was put in a goal off clearys chest on a 5 on 3... Lol.

People that honestly think Howard is our problem are incredibly confused because he has saved this season and is the reason were in the playoffs and the reason game 1 was even a game, especially after the rediculous amount if turnovers by our D

[vladdy16 2,154]

Will people please cease posting "lock this thread" in the thread? If you don't care to discuss the topic, don't enter the thread. I personally think that we could have the reincarnation of Terry Sawchuk and people would still ***** around here. It's what they do. I don't agree with it, so I don't post in the thread. As a mod I am, unfortunately, required to enter the thread. Goalie wars are inevitable. This thread would be more on track if people who didn't want to participate in the discussion would cease commenting on other's discussing it. I suspect this thread has yet to be closed because our goaltending actually is discussion-worthy and Matt runs a pretty loose ship. If Matt tires of this war, the thread will be locked. Until then, please keep the discussion courteous and on topic. Thanks!

[Guest The Axe]

If Franzen plays like Helm, we win. If he plays like Franzen, we lose. Jimmy is doing well.

[kickazz 5,459]

You said this "

Stats don't matter when you get pulled, scored on 4 times on 19 shots, and put it in your own net 2 times in one game. Stats do matter when you do none of that , which he did exactly last week. Last week he didn't mess up and played like he's a future hall of famer.

ELITE status doesn't comprise putting puck into your own net and getting pulled."

Which could be the equivalent of

"Stats don't matter when you allow 9 goals on 26 shots and quit the team because of it, when you actually (which Howard didn't actually) put the puck in your own net (Statue of Liberty)

ELITE status doesn't comprise putting the puck into your own net and getting pulled multiple times.

ps. A goalie doesn't win a Cup a team does.

There have been many goalies as good as Roy that will never get recognized for it because they didn't have the opportunities he had, playing for the teams he played for.

You said this "

Stats don't matter when you get pulled, scored on 4 times on 19 shots, and put it in your own net 2 times in one game. Stats do matter when you do none of that , which he did exactly last week. Last week he didn't mess up and played like he's a future hall of famer.

ELITE status doesn't comprise putting puck into your own net and getting pulled."

Which could be the equivalent of

"Stats don't matter when you allow 9 goals on 26 shots and quit the team because of it, when you actually (which Howard didn't actually) put the puck in your own net (Statue of Liberty)

ELITE status doesn't comprise putting the puck into your own net and getting pulled multiple times.

ps. A goalie doesn't win a Cup a team does.

There have been many goalies as good as Roy that will never get recognized for it because they didn't have the opportunities he had, playing for the teams he played for.

Doesn't matter Roy still won the Conn smyth 3 times and won the stanely cup 4. He's rated number 1/2 goalie on countless books and magazines, polls and shows. Howard is still young and has a long way to go before you can jump the on his *...

Not quite.

Won the Lester B. Pearson in 1988-89 season.

All rookie team in 1984.

Second in Calder voting.

First 18-year-old to play in the All-Star game.

In 1989, I had an NHL stars poster in my dorm room which included Chelios, Savard, Gretz, Lemieux, and Yzerman, among others.

All this was long before Yzerman scored that winner against St. Louis.

EDIT: Fixed a typo

Still didn't make his career until the mid 90s when he led them through 2 stanely cups along with countless clutch plays including the OT winner. Yzerman became a world known captain in the mid to late 90s, I know this because I spent some time overseas during that period and he was a media frenzy then. Point being, Yzerman wouldn't have made hall of fame without a good track record as he had. Jimmy Howard has yet to create his own legacy.

[IndianaRedWing 15]

Howard isn't an elite goaltender. He's a good one.

The rest of the roster isn't good, it's mediocre.

That's the problem. Howard can outduel Hiller and still lose. He's got a harder job facing an Anaheim team that had one of the best powerplays in the NHL during the RS, and that ranked 8th in overall scoring . . . than Hiller does facing a Wings team that ranked 20th in scoring and 15th on the power play.

On the one hand, it's true to say that the Wings aren't going anywhere this postseason unless Howard stands on his head, and he hasn't done that. But that's an incredibly misleading way to look at it. You could also say that nobody short of Ken Dryden is taking this squad to the finals, and even that would be less than 50-50.

Absolutely, Jimmy needs to create his own legacy. If that's going to be in Detroit, though, he's going to need some help.

[Guest The Axe]

The team needs to play well or Howard is cooked. This squad isn't good enough to win ugly. When we're ugly, we are UGLY!!!

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Howard is what he is, I have been saying that all year he is a good goalie not elite but good. Even Henrik Lundquist wouldn't help right now, the Wings need to be better on the defensive part of the game and score more goals otherwhise good fight good night.

[Manny>Ozzie(by a long shot) 55]

Bump...nuf said

[redwings15 47]

HOWIEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Manny>Ozzie(by a long shot) 55]

Game 7 extraordinaire!!!!!

[puckbags 863]

My theory is that you don't have to be great..you just have to be better then the other guy and he outplayed Hiller by a ton. Ask Grant Fuhr about this theory.

[Guest Crymson]

Clutch.

[Rhah 195]

Curious what Howards GAA is if you take away bullcrap goals we gave away to them, like off own players... almost want to take away the giveaway from Flippers that was an easy stuff for Etem.

[Euro_Twins 4,485]

My theory is that you don't have to be great..you just have to be better then the other guy and he outplayed Hiller by a ton. Ask Grant Fuhr about this theory.

Now he has to outplay crawford

[wingsfan4795 552]

Now he has to outplay crawford

when you put it that way, I feel a lot better about playing the hawks

[Guest The Axe]

Howard's rebounds are nerve racking, but I like having him as our goalie now.

[kickazz 5,459]

Now he has to outplay crawford

Crawford sucks

Edited May 13, 2013 by kickazz

[Nev 1,085]

Now he has to outplay crawford

This is the Chicago series in a nutshell. He's better than Crawford, but he has to be much better.

[Manny>Ozzie(by a long shot) 55]

Seemed appropriate to bump this.

I'll say this, I cannot remember the last time a Detroit goalie faced 39 shots in regulation in the playoffs and only allowed one goal. If Howard is average, every wings goalie in recent memory is just terrible.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Manny>Ozzie(by a long shot)

[kickazz 5,459]

Howard is the MVP this playoffs. I'm proud of him. And let me point out that I was critical of him for not having great playoff performances his first few seasons. He's started to become a good veteran goaltender. Good for you Jimmy.

[Guest The Axe]

Howard is the MVP this playoffs. I'm proud of him. And let me point out that I was critical of him for not having great playoff performances his first few seasons. He's started to become a good veteran goaltender. Good for you Jimmy.

Agreed. He's solid.

[chances14 229]

At the beginning of the playoffs in games 1-3 of the ducks series, he looked like the same Howard of the past playoff years, but he really stepped his game up starting in game 4 of that series and hasn't looked back since.

[Euro_Twins 4,485]

At the beginning of the playoffs in games 1-3 of the ducks series, he looked like the same Howard of the past playoff years, but he really stepped his game up starting in game 4 of that series and hasn't looked back since.

he didn't have much help either though