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unsaddleddonald

Red Wings lack offensive creativity

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For this team's style of play, we need to be better on the back end. When we had Lidstrom, Schneider, Rafalski, Stuart sitting on the opposing teams' blueline, blasting the puck back into the zone, we had no problem scoring goals. This team lives and dies by its defensemen.

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For this team's style of play, we need to be better on the back end. When we had Lidstrom, Schneider, Rafalski, Stuart sitting on the opposing teams' blueline, blasting the puck back into the zone, we had no problem scoring goals. This team lives and dies by its defensemen.

True. But Defensemen like Quincey, Ericsson and also Colaiacovo are just useless at the blue line. I do not unterstand why Babs let them play instead of excellent puck movers like Lash, Smith or White. Makes no sense...

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Hmmm.. The Wings need a top 4 puck moving defenseman, and a couple top 6 forwards who can actually score a goal. Hmmm... if only there was someway to obtain such players. Hmmm... if only you could somehow exchange players, picks or prospects with other teams to make your own team better. Hmmm.... it would be so perfect. Hmmm... if only we could of gotten rid of some of the 3 extra defenseman we don't have ice time for. If only we could of gotten rid of some of the 4 extra forwards who take up a bunch of cap space? And if only we could get rid of some of our goalie prospects wasting there lives in Grand Rapids because we already have a #1 for the distant future, and a very skilled #3 in the waiting. Hmmm.... if only every other team in contention hadn't magically become better!

Hmmm... If only Anaheim would take a trade like McCollum, White (pending UFA), & Miller (pending UFA) for a Bobby Ryan. Hmmm... If only Calgary would have taken Pearce (leaving hockey to go back to med school), Sammy (injured & has a NTC), & Emmerton for Bouwmeester. Hmmm... If only every trade Kenny tried to make for a top 6 forward or #1/2 d-man wouldn't start with teams wanting Smith, Nyquist, and/or Mrazek in return & instead they would take a combination of the Wings' bottom 6 forwards & #6/7 d-men for high caliber players . Hmmm...If only Kenny didn't care about rebuilding the talent pool in the farm system that was dreadful after spending the 90's & early 00's trading his best picks & prospects away and he would just continue to flip them for more bottom 6 forwards or bottom pairing d-men.

Hopefully that offensive creativity is on the way in the next few years i.e. Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, Frk, Almquist, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, Sproul, etc. as long as Kenny doesn't go nuts & trade them all off.

Edited by ogreslayer

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First of all is it possible for our roster to look like this? Secondly I think we lack creativity because our talent pool on the ice, we have it in our system just not on the ice. No way Miller or Abby (I do like what he brings though and think this time with dats has been good, but lets finish it now) should be in the top six. If we used these lines I think we would see some magic, they also need a time to gel as a line and create chemestry too. This folks with the addition of Helm could be awesome.

Nyquist Datsyuk Franzen

Tatar Zetterberg Brunner

Filppula Andersson Eaves

Cleary Abdelkader Tootoo/Miller

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This is all because Babs is switching the lines so bad.

If we wanna make the playoffs it's the time to put some goal scorers into the bottom six. Bring in some quality instead of size und put together what belongs together. Plus we are in need of skillful defensemen. Makes no sense to let play some lazy guys like Ericsson or Quincey. Especially on the PP:

Tatar, Datsjuk, Franzen

Nyquist, Zetterberg, Brunner

Cleary, Filppula, Abdelkader

Miller, Emmerton, Eaves

Kronwall, Lashoff

Smith, Kindl

DeKeyser, White

- Kronwall and Lash already played together very successfully. Lash is a very good defender and would allow Kronwall to create some offense. Plus he moves the puck a lot better than simply sweepers like Colaiacovo, Ericsson or Quincey.

- Zetterberg and Brunner are not scoring on 5vs5 since they were separated by Babs. Think Nyquist could be a good addition because he worked well with Brunner in 1,2 games.

- Tatar is a young guy but has the quickest hands (after Datsjuk and Brunner) of the whole roster. He's a natural born goalscorer and should get a call up very immediately. Wanna see him paired with Datsjuk and Franzen. Franzen can take Abby's job and drive hard to the net. He has the body and he's useless if he's just standin arround.

- Filppula is not scoring altough he's playing in the bottom six all the time. Can't accept that anymore. Maybe he would feel confident as 3rd line center along with some hard working guys who can create a lot of space for him.

So I'm pretty sure that reunite what worked and put together what belongs together would be the key...

I agree with the whole thing except I wish we had a better option than White. God he sucks bad.

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http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2013/04/red_wings_continue_having_trou.html#incart_river

Said Babcock: “We don't score that good so we got to keep grinding. The bottom line is I thought we put a good effort in. We got another game tomorrow (at Chicago), so let's get on the flight and get something in us and get ready to go.''

The Red Wings continue to struggle to score. It doesn't look like that will change.

“The league tightens up,'' Babcock said. “Some guys score and some guys don't, and we got a lot that don't.''

"Some guys score goals and some guys don't, and we got a lot that don't" -Mike Babcock

"No sh*t" -Planet Earth

Edited by kipwinger
esteef and AtomicPunk like this

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I love how it takes over a month of poor/ inconsistent play for Babcock to FINALLY put pavs and hank together on the same line. He does it, then they literally win us the game against the Avs. Then the Wings have a bad period, as seen yesterday, and Babcock already splits them up. I love the job Babs has been doing with the young guys, but the job that he has done with the top 2 lines this season has been poor. We need goals, that is a fact. In response to that, we have Brunner playing on the 3rd line so that CLEARY can now play on the 2nd line AGAIN?! If babs does not want to play Pavs and Hank together, then I think Fil should play with Pavs so that we can get Fil going.

Filpulla- Datsyuk- Abs

Franzen- Hank- Brunner

That is what I would go with as of now.

esteef likes this

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Hmmm... If only Anaheim would take a trade like McCollum, White (pending UFA), & Miller (pending UFA) for a Bobby Ryan. Hmmm... If only Calgary would have taken Pearce (leaving hockey to go back to med school), Sammy (injured & has a NTC), & Emmerton for Bouwmeester. Hmmm... If only every trade Kenny tried to make for a top 6 forward or #1/2 d-man wouldn't start with teams wanting Smith, Nyquist, and/or Mrazek in return & instead they would take a combination of the Wings' bottom 6 forwards & #6/7 d-men for high caliber players . Hmmm...If only Kenny didn't care about rebuilding the talent pool in the farm system that was dreadful after spending the 90's & early 00's trading his best picks & prospects away and he would just continue to flip them for more bottom 6 forwards or bottom pairing d-men.

Hopefully that offensive creativity is on the way in the next few years i.e. Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, Frk, Almquist, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, Sproul, etc. as long as Kenny doesn't go nuts & trade them all off.

I agree, no one wants our garbage, but last year Stuart said he wants to go to Cali and there were rumors of Anaheim looking to trade Bobby Ryan. You could've packaged Stuart, a 1st, and mid-round pick or mid-range prospect for Bobby Ryan at that time (and I even suggested it in a thread last year so this isn't a case of hindsight being 20/20) instead of letting Stuart walk and wasting that 1st on Quincey. At this deadline, you could've gotten at least a 5th for White and an overpayment for Filppula who are both likely walking at the end of the season. My issue is if Kenny is rebuilding, why were the wings trying to be bargain shoppers at the deadline? He could have just as easily gotten some picks and prospects for those 2 UFAs, scratched guys like Cleary and seen what the next wave of prospects has to offer. Maybe Tatar provides some offense. I mean, he can't be worse than Flip or Brunner have been.

Dallas, Phoenix, and San Jose are 3 sellers who have really turned it on after the deadline, so it's possible to be a seller and still make the playoffs, too!

esteef likes this

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Need to have effort to be creative. This team gives an embarrassing effort every night. They ought to be ashamed of themselves...honestly. Columbus deserves our spot so much more than us it sickens me.

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walker.jpg

O god don't let Holland see. That's a two year and a ntc waiting to happen.

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- Tatar is a young guy but has the quickest hands (after Datsjuk and Brunner) of the whole roster. He's a natural born goalscorer and should get a call up very immediately. Wanna see him paired with Datsjuk and Franzen. Franzen can could take Abby's job and drive hard to the net. He has the body and but he's useless if and he's just standin always just floating arround.

Fixed.

I've never been more high on trading this guy as I have been since just before the trade deadline. We constantly toss around things like: Value. Worth. Contract Impossibilities. Giving up our only big bodied scorer. OH NOEZ!! I don't care. Trade the guy. Make it happen.

I promise I won't turn into LeftWinger with the Franzen bashing but, for chrissakes... Franzen is just getting worse and worse and there is no punishment for his sorry and lazy style of play. Never benched. Always in the top six.

I know this team was once built on team/player loyalty for a number of years, but it's not working anymore. Work hard and you will be rewarded. Now it just seems like we're rewarding guys because, "hey, this guy has done it before... he can do it again."

Well, WHEN? If not NOW! WHEN?

If you're not working hard when your team needs you the most... GTFO.

Edited by e_prime
esteef, poel and unsaddleddonald like this

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Fixed.

I've never been more high on trading this guy as I have been since just before the trade deadline. We constantly toss around things like: Value. Worth. Contract Impossibilities. Giving up our only big bodied scorer. OH NOEZ!! I don't care. Trade the guy. Make it happen.

I promise I won't turn into LeftWinger with the Franzen bashing but, for chrissakes... Franzen is just getting worse and worse and there is no punishment for his sorry and lazy style of play. Never benched. Always in the top six.

I know this team was once built on team/player loyalty for a number of years, but it's not working anymore. Work hard and you will be rewarded. Now it just seems like we're rewarding guys because, "hey, this guy has done it before... he can do it again."

Well, WHEN? If not NOW! WHEN?

If you're not working hard when your team needs you the most... GTFO.

You're right. Same problem with Fil. Maybe some fresh air would help this team to step up. Mule and Fil are skilled players but actually it seems that they're not willing to make an effort every single day.

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To think about the days where every one wanted to keep Franzen over Hossa ... Pathetic ...

dont look at me on that one....twas not my call...

hossa brings it everynight....franzen brings it every holiday.

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dont look at me on that one....twas not my call...

hossa brings it everynight....franzen brings it every holiday.

Wow what an exaggeration there is like nine holidays. That's more than double the amount of times he brings it.

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Remember how in years past we all complained about the Wings offensive strategy - Cleary or Zetterberg entering the zone next to the boards and doing the 180 degree spin to look for a player heading down the middle or a trailer for the pass. You could set your watch to that kind of play.

Now all we see is a Wings defensemen meet the red line or a forward meet the blue line and shoot the puck in for someone to chase.

I was actually pleasantly surprised to see Flip in the overtime period do the 180 degree spin and guess what - there was actually someone to pass to who was heading to the net!

Also, I remember seeing on George Malik's blog last Fall a mention of a story from the Windsor Star that had a discussion with Jim Nill about the state of the Wings and Nill supposedly saying that transitioning away from being a puck possession team was one of the items the Wings top brass was considering given the change (decrease) in talent on the team.

And to all the hate for Holland - he did say before the season started that he was unsure the team would make the playoffs. That is because THIS season was always about NEXT season; the vets were brought in as a band-aid to get to the land of magic, the UFA and salary dump market in July 2013.

Edited by Behind Enemy Lines in CO

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You're right. Same problem with Fil. Maybe some fresh air would help this team to step up. Mule and Fil are skilled players but actually it seems that they're not willing to make an effort every single day.

The thing that kills me is that if we trade Franzen and don't re-sign Fil... they'll probably both go on point and scoring streaks and we'd all be moaning and groaning about how Holland traded them away. "Fresh air" works both ways. This team just needs some new pieces. Not a NYR or Philly styled blow up, but some key replacement cogs and grease for the Big Red Machine.

poel likes this

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Remember how in years past we all complained about the Wings offensive strategy - Cleary or Zetterberg entering the zone next to the boards and doing the 180 degree spin to look for a player heading down the middle or a trailer for the pass. You could set your watch to that kind of play.

Now all we see is a Wings defensemen meet the red line or a forward meet the blue line and shoot the puck in for someone to chase.

I was actually pleasantly surprised to see Flip in the overtime period do the 180 degree spin and guess what - there was actually someone to pass to who was heading to the net!

Also, I remember seeing on George Malik's blog last Fall a mention of a story from the Windsor Star that had a discussion with Jim Nill about the state of the Wings and Nill supposedly saying that transitioning away from being a puck possession team was one of the items the Wings top brass was considering given the change (decrease) in talent on the team.

And to all the hate for Holland - he did say before the season started that he was unsure the team would make the playoffs. That is because THIS season was always about NEXT season; the vets were brought in as a band-aid to get to the land of magic, the UFA and salary dump market in July 2013.

Playoffs will be harder to make next season, playing in an 8 team division.

Not to mention, what makes you think Holland will do anything significant in the offseason? Certainly not recent history.

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So Holland admitting we suck at the start of the season absolves him of responsibility for it? Or is that just Holland-speak for "I sucked this offseason".

esteef

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I thought this was an interesting quote from Babcock:

“Everyone says to me about scoring,'' coach Mike Babcock said. “To me, the league's real simple. You look at the Guide and Record Book and look at what a guy does, and every once in a while he has a big year. But, really, he does the same thing year after year after year.

“We score like we should, that's what we got. We understand that. So, if you know you're challenged to score, what do you do? You don't try to outscore your mistakes, you don't make as many mistakes. You be good defensively, you be hard on the other team.''

This team isn't so much underachieving offensively as they are not scoring much due to lack of offensive talent.

Then Babs calls out Flip a bit.

Valtteri Filppula has one goal and two points in his past 13 games.

“He's one guy the Guide and Record Book doesn't speak right about, right?'' Babcock said. “We could use some offense. When you're not scoring and you think you're a scorer, get on the inside, one of the D-men will shoot it off your foot and you'll get scoring.''

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2013/04/red_wings_in_ninth_place_in_we.html

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then why did we sound down tatar? He hardly played and yet was creating great offensive plays with andy, then we wait for players like filppula n others to get hot eventually, when eventually could be too late. Go to the net!!! he was.
Edited by Superman54

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This is all because Babs is switching the lines so bad.

If we wanna make the playoffs it's the time to put some goal scorers into the bottom six. Bring in some quality instead of size und put together what belongs together. Plus we are in need of skillful defensemen. Makes no sense to let play some lazy guys like Ericsson or Quincey. Especially on the PP:

Tatar, Datsjuk, Franzen

Nyquist, Zetterberg, Brunner

Cleary, Filppula, Abdelkader

Miller, Emmerton, Eaves

Kronwall, Lashoff

Smith, Kindl

DeKeyser, White

- Kronwall and Lash already played together very successfully. Lash is a very good defender and would allow Kronwall to create some offense. Plus he moves the puck a lot better than simply sweepers like Colaiacovo, Ericsson or Quincey.

- Zetterberg and Brunner are not scoring on 5vs5 since they were separated by Babs. Think Nyquist could be a good addition because he worked well with Brunner in 1,2 games.

- Tatar is a young guy but has the quickest hands (after Datsjuk and Brunner) of the whole roster. He's a natural born goalscorer and should get a call up very immediately. Wanna see him paired with Datsjuk and Franzen. Franzen can take Abby's job and drive hard to the net. He has the body and he's useless if he's just standin arround.

- Filppula is not scoring altough he's playing in the bottom six all the time. Can't accept that anymore. Maybe he would feel confident as 3rd line center along with some hard working guys who can create a lot of space for him.

So I'm pretty sure that reunite what worked and put together what belongs together would be the key...

Looks like I'm right and Mr. Babcock has threwn away multipe games with just very very bad coaching. When Brunner and Cleary plus Zetterberg and Franzen switched spots yesterday, Wings played so much better than before. Datsjuk and Franzen match perfectly together ans so do Zetterberg and Brunner. It just makes no sense to put the best playmakers together in a line along with a tough guy like Abdelkader who's not able to profit from their ideas. When you put these two together you really need to add a natural born goalscorer otherwise this system can't work.

Maybe the loss against Calgary was a little bit unlucky. But it was for sure Mr. Babcock's fault that Redwings lost. You can't throw away a period against a strong team like the Flames are at the moment. But Mr. Babcock has threwn away not only that single game. Redwings were a strong team team as long as Tatar was in the roster and Brunner played with Z and Fil. But then, Tatar had to go down and Brunner was demoted by Babcock. He gave up two of his best goal scorers voluntarly. Just ridiculous.

If Babcock wanna make the playoffs he'd better save the lineup of the last two periods against the Flames. Just including one change. Call up for Tatar and reassign Andersson to Grand Rapids.

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I think Babcock is trying to turn them into a defense first team, so he doesn't care about not scoring. A lot of his questionable moves make sense in a big picture, 2-3 year kind of way. Frustrating to watch. I also hope they're not trying to turn the team nto Minnesota or New Jersey. If we don't have the talent right now to be pick possessors, don't give up, go get the damn talent.

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