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The Overreaction Thread


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#1 WingedWheel91

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:18 AM

I thought I would start a thread tonight for those fans who take the time to look at the big picture - rather than broadcast any anger towards one of the best GM's in the NHL just because it didn't go our way today. So before you elect Paul Holmgren as our next GM, consider that since 2007 he has signed 6 contracts to a combined 61 years and $374.5 Millon to players who are NOT currently playing for Philadelphia. (Shea Weber, Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, Danny Briere, Ilya Bryzalov, and Chris Pronger) you can also add James Van Riemsdyk to that list.

Here are 5 overreaction's I have been exposed to since 10 AM this morning.

1. Vincent Lecavalier - I"ll admit I was intrigued by the possibility of him centering our second line next year...but that's about it. He is 33 years old, is already too slow, and now playing with house money for the duration of this ridiculous 5 year contract. My question is: How motivated is this Stanley Cup champ, who hasn't played more than 65 games or scored more than 25 goals since 09-10, and hasn't been a + player since 06-07 going to be for the next 5 years? Sadly enough, at the same age, Johan Franzen has actually put up better all around numbers since then and who on this site hasn't posted in a "trade Franzen" thread.

2. David Clarkson - Thank God. Why does anyone want this guy signed to a long term contract at 6+ Million per season. Those figures are entering Datsyuk range, and are already in Zetterberg range. Congratulatons on your one 30 goal season Dave, but considering that Hakan Loob, Stephane Richer, Jonathon Cheechoo, Wayne Babych and Dino Cicarelli all scored 50 once... No Thanks.

3. Buyouts - There are like 1 or 2 good centres left in this years free agent crop that 29 other teams have interest in, meaning we probably aren't going to get who we want (Stephen Weiss) because someone will overspend when it's the wrong thing to do (Philadelphia). Collatarally, this means that with 10+ million in the bank and very few targets to spend it on right now, why would we burn our last compliance buyout on either Sammy or Bert who both have 1 year remaining on their contracts, when we still have 4 players signed until at least 2019. The point is, we aren't spending 10 Mill this summer on free agents meaning there is no point in getting rid of any assets simply for cap relief.

4. Lack of Team Talent? - We played Chicago harder than anyone they met en route to winning the cup, and had 3 chances to eliminate them. As of right now, the team will be adding Helm, Bertuzzi, Dekeyser, and Tatar to next years full time roster and losing Filpulla and White for sure. Brunner and Cleary remain to be seen, but can someone tell me how next years team isn't better than last years based on injuries alone, and before you take into account the development of all of our rookies?

5. The Time Is Now - Has anyone seen next years free agent class? Before you erase Vincent Lecavalier from your CapGeek thread team, and visit nhltraderumours.com to pencil someone else into our top 6 while maintaining about $14,000 in Cap Space, consider the future.

#2 The Axe

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:52 AM

If we dont get Vanek, Kenny needs to go.

#3 frankgrimes

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:02 AM

How is it overreaction to expect the best franchise in all of hockey to get the players they want?

The top UFA players next year will want to cash in too...! So at some point the Wings have to show their financial power again.

Heck the Flyers don't have enough capspace but yet are finding ways to land UFAs.

Building from within is nice but you have to surround the only two remaining superstars with other pro ven guys and this not willing to overpay mantra will not get the job done.

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#4 GoalieManPat

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:15 AM

4. Lack of Team Talent? - We played Chicago harder than anyone they met en route to winning the cup, and had 3 chances to eliminate them. As of right now, the team will be adding Helm, Bertuzzi, Dekeyser, and Tatar to next years full time roster and losing Filpulla and White for sure. Brunner and Cleary remain to be seen, but can someone tell me how next years team isn't better than last years based on injuries alone, and before you take into account the development of all of our rookies?
 

 

Its not an overreaction to say Holland hasn't been living up to his reputation the last 5 seasons. The guy has without a doubt let the roster get stale and the teams declining results prove that. It started with him hanging on to Draper and Maltby way to long and now hes doing the same with Bert and Cleary. He hasn't made a solid free agent signing since Rafalski and a good trade since Stuart. He seems to try and be doing just enough to stay in the playoff hunt but not enough to be a true contender. 

 

Yes they played Chicago hard but lets be realistic. Chicago played probably there worst 4 games of the postseason at the start of that series. The fact that Chicago was then able to kick it in gear and win three straight elimination games shows how big of a divide there is between the two. 

 

You cant say this team will be better next year just because of the young kids coming up and players getting back from injury. You cant be sure how Tatar, Nyquist, and Anderson fair through a full NHL season. They could be solid but they are just as likely to struggle as rookies. Sure Dekeyser looked real solid before his injury but he struggled quite a bit in the AHL finals once coming back. And theres no guarantee Helm ever gets back to the level he was playing at before all his injuries. Hes barely played in a year and a half and who really knows if this mystery back injury ever will heal right.

 

The teams biggest need is a 2C and a true scoring winger. I dont see Holland doing anything to fix it this season. In fact I wouldnt be surprised to see Brunner leave with a better offer elsewhere and then Holland panics and resigns Cleary for 3 years. I see this being just as likely and him signing any impact player.  



#5 RyanBarnes!

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 02:06 AM

Holland can stay put and he will still be the best GM ever because this team already have all the pieces it needs. Got it! Now delete thread...

Edited by RyanBarnes!, 03 July 2013 - 02:07 AM.

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#6 wingsfan4795

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 02:09 AM

Holland can stay put and he will still be the best GM ever because this team already have all the pieces it needs. Got it!

Pretty much. This exact team will compete for the cup within the next 2-3 years. With the amount of young talent coming up through the ranks, its safe to say we'll get better every year until Datsyuk retires.

I wouldn't mind a 2nd line center though. That's our only hole

Why delete the thread? Can't the Kenny lovers have a place to have constructive discussions that don't get derailed by certain posters who shall not be named?

Edited by wingsfan4795, 03 July 2013 - 02:11 AM.

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#7 frankgrimes

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 02:34 AM

Holland can stay put and he will still be the best GM ever because this team already have all the pieces it needs. Got it!Pretty much. This exact team will compete for the cup within the next 2-3 years. With the amount of young talent coming up through the ranks, its safe to say we'll get better every year until Datsyuk retires.
I wouldn't mind a 2nd line center though. That's our only hole
Why delete the thread? Can't the Kenny lovers have a place to have constructive discussions that don't get derailed by certain posters who shall not be named?

Wow this shortened season run really hasn't done too much good things looking back at it.

The Wings are FAR away from being stanley cup contenders, they would be lucky making the playoffs this year.

Sure there is young blood coming but a lot of them are boom or bust gambles. Nobody knows how Brunner (if he stays), Dekeyser, Smith and Tatar are doing in a full season.

The last time Detroit made a huge UFA signing was 5 years ago! If ehe offers are equal and a player decides he doesn't want to play here fine but always offering less than other teams and expecting players to take a paycut, is not going to get the job done!

Last offseason the Wings tried didn't work out, fine but the season before an it is shaping to be so this season also, standing pat and signing some MEH at best players isn't Wings style.

Pasha Z and Babs deserve better fcrom the so called best gm in hockey
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Edited by frankgrimes, 03 July 2013 - 02:58 AM.

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#8 Jesusberg

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 03:17 AM

I will fully admit that the overreacting on here drives me nuts, at times. I agree with your first two points 100%. After that, we tend to have a different view of the situations.

 

3. Buyouts - There are like 1 or 2 good centres left in this years free agent crop that 29 other teams have interest in, meaning we probably aren't going to get who we want (Stephen Weiss) because someone will overspend when it's the wrong thing to do (Philadelphia). Collatarally, this means that with 10+ million in the bank and very few targets to spend it on right now, why would we burn our last compliance buyout on either Sammy or Bert who both have 1 year remaining on their contracts, when we still have 4 players signed until at least 2019. The point is, we aren't spending 10 Mill this summer on free agents meaning there is no point in getting rid of any assets simply for cap relief.

4. Lack of Team Talent? - We played Chicago harder than anyone they met en route to winning the cup, and had 3 chances to eliminate them. As of right now, the team will be adding Helm, Bertuzzi, Dekeyser, and Tatar to next years full time roster and losing Filpulla and White for sure. Brunner and Cleary remain to be seen, but can someone tell me how next years team isn't better than last years based on injuries alone, and before you take into account the development of all of our rookies?

5. The Time Is Now - Has anyone seen next years free agent class? Before you erase Vincent Lecavalier from your CapGeek thread team, and visit nhltraderumours.com to pencil someone else into our top 6 while maintaining about $14,000 in Cap Space, consider the future.

 

3. This is my primary disagreement. I have seen others on here wanting him bought out to add some fancy new free agent to the team. I couldn't care less about the cap hit coming off the books if a Samuelsson buyout were to occur; it's about making room on the roster for the younger guys. The man can barely stay healthy for more than a handful of games at a time, and if he does... what real good does he do? Do you want him in your top 6, seriously? He's a 3 million dollar third liner. If his presence on the team next season means that one of Tatar or Nyquist does not have a spot, it's absolute garbage. Cap isn't the issue here - it's a useless player taking away from the progress of others.

4. This isn't so much me disagreeing as it is me simply stating: I don't care if we're not good next year, as we were this year. I didn't care how much noise we made this year, either. Part of us doing well may be used as a justification for bringing a guy like Cleary back, at the expense of some younger guys learning from Z and Datsyuk, first hand. I like Cleary, but I feel his time has passed. Success with this team = Holland things he's got a fantastic team = "well, I guess we can still let the kids overripe." I'm not an advocate of bringing in overpriced, lower-tier FA talent - I'm a fan of letting our young guys get the proper experience now with some of the more talented two-way centers in the game.

5. It's fine to look right now and see that FA class, but how many of those guys will actually be there come next summer. Tons of teams lock up their UFA's before they hit the market. Again, I don't want anyone in this year's FA class, but to say that we're saving for next summer has been kind of a cop out for several years now, and was really only a solid idea when Parise and Suter tested the market (Bad outcome, but those are the guys you throw money at.) Don't get me wrong, there are some nice names there (Vanek, Gabs, Kessel, Pominville, etc.)... but how many will actually make it to July 1st?



#9 DeGraa55

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 04:58 AM

Its actually not an overreaction to say Holland has lost his touch. These last few years and this off season PROVE it. I won't saying for 100% this off season yet...but if he resigns cleary for 3m for 3 years and doesn't trade for anyone I will. And Weiss is a downgrade. The way it looks now we will have the same team next year minus fil adding Weiss which makes us worsen overall. And his two years deals last year to Sammy and cola were just complete stupidity.



Remember 4.5m is too much for a proven star but 3m to 3 useless bums is OK!.

#10 amato

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 05:12 AM

If Kenny doesn't pry stammer out of Tampa then what good is he as GM?!

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#11 NAVYWING

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 05:33 AM

Been awhile since I've replied to something here, but I have watched this forum closely for several years.  I am a bit upset with our team this time, and forum bullies/ self-proclaimed experts aside, I feel it's necessary to chime in, or at a minimum, share my opinion (whether you want it or not).  I think this thread is perfect for that!  I don't think it's overreaction for real fans of this team to be upset with the path the Red Wings are headed down.  I feel that star players will cost this team more than others in part due to the sad state of our city, and the fact we don't fill our stands anymore.  The economy alone says that until some major support/ excitement is generated for this team by the people of Detroit, getting some super-star players into the Big D is going to be difficult.  KH needs to pull a shocker deal off just to generate excitement.  Let's face it, if you care enough to post something here, you are a fan, and aren't going anywhere, but that base is starting to dwindle, not grow like in the mid to late 90's and early 2000's...  KH used to really shake things up.  He even proved that this team was capable in the cap era in 2008.  Well, it's several years later, and the team is still hanging on the backs of Dats and Hank.  I believe Holland can't get those superstar players in here, and as good as our farm team is, they can't move up due to Sammy, Bertuzzi and Cleary.  Personally, their run in this playoff, or even that they got there was a fluke.  So here's the big question: What's it going to take?  You need fans and sponsers to make money, you need money to generate excitement and interest.  Hank and Dats are not getting any younger.  Where's it going to come from?  Overreaction, no.  Concerned, very.


QUOTE
"We were one of the teams that had the least amount of fights last year. You don't want your best players fighting. But Brendan was certainly a physical presence. Playing on Pavel Datsyuk's line, he obviously created some space for Pavel. That's something we're going to have to monitor," said Ken Holland.


Ugh.

#12 SaCkaveli20

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 05:47 AM

I know it's still early, but I do think we need scoring help. Especially if there's a chance we lose Brunner, Filppula & Cleary.
That's why I wanted Vinny. He is a perfect fit for this team.
Everyone on this board always wants "big tough guys who can score"
But always "not at that price"
Wake up people, NHL GM's HAVE TO spend now a days. It's just the way it is.


On a side note, I fully expect one of Tatar, NyQuist, or Sheahan to become a star.

Edited by SaCkaveli20, 03 July 2013 - 05:47 AM.


#13 amato

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 06:11 AM

I agree that the wings would benefit from shaking things up.. and I think they're starting to with the young guns. Add a free agent and drop some dead weight and I'd be happy as far this off season goes. But there is one part I disagree with in your post..

and the fact we don't fill our stands anymore. 


maybe for a couple years we had a hard time filling the stands (and the economy could be part of the reason) but the Joe is currently sitting at 101 consecutive sellouts. I know we've had longer streaks in the past but if anything, that's a sign that things are getting better

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#14 NAVYWING

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 06:26 AM

I agree that the wings would benefit from shaking things up.. and I think they're starting to with the young guns. Add a free agent and drop some dead weight and I'd be happy as far this off season goes. But there is one part I disagree with in your post..


maybe for a couple years we had a hard time filling the stands (and the economy could be part of the reason) but the Joe is currently sitting at 101 consecutive sellouts. I know we've had longer streaks in the past but if anything, that's a sign that things are getting better

You're right.  I think things are economically getting a bit better, and it would be a pleasant change to hear the crowd "roar" again.  But, to get that "roar" we need to ice some stars.  I suppose I get frustrated when I see a lack of movement in an already dire situation.  The Wings are becoming one-demensional, and they really needed Vinnie to replace Fil.  Fil never put the "big-boy" shoes on, and Vinnie wore those shoes in Tampa time and time again.  So what do you guys think KH's next move , if any, will be???


QUOTE
"We were one of the teams that had the least amount of fights last year. You don't want your best players fighting. But Brendan was certainly a physical presence. Playing on Pavel Datsyuk's line, he obviously created some space for Pavel. That's something we're going to have to monitor," said Ken Holland.


Ugh.

#15 amato

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 07:01 AM

You're right.  I think things are economically getting a bit better, and it would be a pleasant change to hear the crowd "roar" again.  But, to get that "roar" we need to ice some stars.  I suppose I get frustrated when I see a lack of movement in an already dire situation.  The Wings are becoming one-demensional, and they really needed Vinnie to replace Fil.  Fil never put the "big-boy" shoes on, and Vinnie wore those shoes in Tampa time and time again.  So what do you guys think KH's next move , if any, will be???


though I'd like to hear it more often, the "roar" of the crowd has been there at times this past season. I was at one of the first round home games we won and that was the loudest ive ever heard the Joe and there have been a few games ive watched on tv where Mick says something like, "we'll let the crowd bring this one home for ya" or whatever..

but as far as what I think ken will do?

Resign Cleary, Brunner and our RFAs
sign Weiss
"Kick the tires" on a trade or two
(Hopefully) buyout sammy
"We like our team"

And honestly, that'd be a good off-season imo. Weiss is a capable filp replacement and our young guys are only getting better. Last season was our low point in terms of rebuilding and with all our prospects, the future looks bright.

Datsyukian

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#16 Euro_Twins

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 07:19 AM

Been awhile since I've replied to something here, but I have watched this forum closely for several years.  I am a bit upset with our team this time, and forum bullies/ self-proclaimed experts aside, I feel it's necessary to chime in, or at a minimum, share my opinion (whether you want it or not).  I think this thread is perfect for that!  I don't think it's overreaction for real fans of this team to be upset with the path the Red Wings are headed down.  I feel that star players will cost this team more than others in part due to the sad state of our city, and the fact we don't fill our stands anymore.  The economy alone says that until some major support/ excitement is generated for this team by the people of Detroit, getting some super-star players into the Big D is going to be difficult.  KH needs to pull a shocker deal off just to generate excitement.  Let's face it, if you care enough to post something here, you are a fan, and aren't going anywhere, but that base is starting to dwindle, not grow like in the mid to late 90's and early 2000's...  KH used to really shake things up.  He even proved that this team was capable in the cap era in 2008.  Well, it's several years later, and the team is still hanging on the backs of Dats and Hank.  I believe Holland can't get those superstar players in here, and as good as our farm team is, they can't move up due to Sammy, Bertuzzi and Cleary.  Personally, their run in this playoff, or even that they got there was a fluke.  So here's the big question: What's it going to take?  You need fans and sponsers to make money, you need money to generate excitement and interest.  Hank and Dats are not getting any younger.  Where's it going to come from?  Overreaction, no.  Concerned, very.


We still sell out every game. Everything else you said is spot on

#17 Wings_Dynasty

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 07:41 AM

Cleary being re-signed is the worst thing I can think of to happen to this team right now. After that it's not signing a defenseman to replace Smith when he blows up halfway through the season. 


"I think a tough team, a team that sticks together, is a lot better than leaving the onus on one guy to take care of business." - Brendan Shanahan

 

It still would be nice to have that one guy.


#18 Euro_Twins

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 07:44 AM

Cleary being re-signed is the worst thing I can think of to happen to this team right now. After that it's not signing a defenseman to replace Smith when he blows up halfway through the season. 


What do you mean when he blows up?

#19 Datsyukian-Deke

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 07:46 AM

What do you mean when he blows up?


He is referring to the fact that Smith is likely to spontaneously combust at some point next season.

#20 Wings_Dynasty

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 08:10 AM

What do you mean when he blows up?

 

 

He is referring to the fact that Smith is likely to spontaneously combust at some point next season.

If by "spontaneously combust" you mean become a defensive liability via turnovers and poor decision making with pinches and passes, then yes, he will burst into flames. 


"I think a tough team, a team that sticks together, is a lot better than leaving the onus on one guy to take care of business." - Brendan Shanahan

 

It still would be nice to have that one guy.






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