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unsaddleddonald

So....did Cleary just take Tatar's spot?

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Nyquist played every game of the Wings' two rounds last year. In terms of actual NHL resume, him and Tatar were roughly even last year, except:

(a) Tatar is 15 months younger;

(b) Nyquist showed more value as a two-way player;

© It's pretty well known already that Tatar is sort of a cocky guy, which is fine if you're good, but also leads to an extended "humbling" process in this organization.

I can't imagine Nyquist starting in Grand Rapids. I could imagine it with Tatar, but, reportedly, he cannot.

This is what I kept saying in 2012 when they signed all those guys - it's not that any ONE of the Sammy, Tootoo, Bertuzzi, Miller, and Abdelkader deals are that bad, but combined, that's about $10 million + of guys that could more or less be replaced by faster, skilled youngsters on rookie contracts. Of course, as the past two offseasons have shown, just because you have a spare 10-15 million in cap space laying around doesn't mean you're landing the next Weber or Suter in free agency (though I like Weiss and one year of Alfie).

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I don't disagree with you, but that is the dumbestf****** thing I can possibly read.

That is the point we are at with Babcock and Holland.

I ready said it in the signing thread, this team has turned into their personal social club.

Not much when it's common knowledge you have to trim your roster.

Exactly, everyone in the NHL knows our plight. Kenny has put himself in a very weak position for future negotiations.

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Looking at this objectively, getting past my initial shock and annoyance, it's not the end of the world of Tatar was moved. The team has a lot of young talent. (Gus, Jurco, Mantha, Pulu, Frk, etc.) who are going to be contributors in the future. Winning the tournament in TC showed that. But... what does this say to future prospects? Sure, the Red Wings are loyal to their vets, but what about their prospects who put in all that work at the junior and pro levels?

What motivation are some of these kids going to have when being drafted by Detroit... "Well, I won't even sniff their roster for 5-6 years, so I can take it easily initially." I understand that'd be a poor attitude to have, but I feel like management needs to come down off their pedestal for a second. For a guy who says that the way to maintain success in this league is through the draft, he sure has a funny way of showing it. You've got TWO of the best players in the AHL, and they're fringe guys on your club, not because of talent, but because of some misguided sense of loyalty.

In my eyes, Dan Cleary is not the issue... it's Ken Holland (or perhaps Illitch to an extent?). Cleary is a perfect 3rd line guy. He could even fit in on a 4th line of Miller-Helm/Andy-Cleary... but when you're showing younger talent that you don't have much faith in them. I don't even know.

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I still don't see the situation as being that complicated.

Helm - Will start on IR and probably be on there till the new year.

Emmerton - Waived if not traded. (Dats, Zetts, Weiss, Andy, Franz, Abby can all play center so don't give me that we need to keep him because Helm is injured)

Sammy, Eaves, Tootoo - battle out the last couple spots. Trade/Demote who doesn't cut it.

Leaves us with a 23 man roster and over 1 million in cap space.

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Chicago has that Saad kid who is really impressing me and sticking with the stars and quietly developing. Why can't we function like this? Tatar should be up in the top six learning with the best along with Nyquist as well. Its better to do this NOW while Z and Dats are producing so that we don't have to rely on the kids to be THE guys right away.

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Both Tatar and Nyqiust were loyal for playing in the minors for years on ELC instead of choosing petrol $$$ from KHL at first.They led the underdog Grand Rapids team to the Calder Cup so any thoughts about some washed up veteran taking their spot makes me puke.

Nothing against veterans in general,but those two kids should be a priority.

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What more can he do to prove he's NHL ready? He won the playoff MVP. He's watched players leap frog him on the depth chart. He had more points than Nyquist when he got sent back down.

Seriously, if I got s*** on repeatedly like that I'd leave too. There's 29 teams that would sign him in a second.

I lurk here once and holy s*** I can't believe how bad it's gotten. I just had to reply. Maybe you'd throw a fit too because you never matured out of the stage where you only see 2 inches past your nose. It's the only way you could convince yourself Detroit has some sort of history of s***ting on young and/or loyal players. Someone will say they do but what they really mean is they're mad their exciting new toy spent one season in the AHL more than they'd like. Fact is they don't s*** on them, and if Tatar could show some patience it'd pay off greatly. If he has to be traded then whatever, buck the f*** up and make yourself look better with a better attitude. Even if you don't like it, you're essentially a business and you have to sell yourself.

I don't like Cleary as a player much and I'm pretty sure I was noticing this long before anyone else. I routinely got told I was nuts or stupid or whatever so this is a little funny to see now. I don't mind Cleary in a third line role away from the PP. On the top 6 he destroys offensive zone rushes/possession. He drop passes to no one, coughs up pucks every time he touches them, etc. But he does grind it out hard and play a role and more importantly he plays a huge role in the locker room. That's more important than I think most people here will or even can realize. They're not trading cards and this isn't f***in NHL on Xbox. We're not stacking a HUT team. Leadership and guys like Cleary are valuable outside of their shift to shift duties on the ice.

Tatar doesn't have to go anywhere if this is settled by getting rid of Emmerton, Sammy somehow, maybe Gus, someone else. There are options. Before you light your goddamn hair on fire just relax. And I can't believe people are talking about a bad return for Sammy, like what the s*** do you think we'll get for a 34 year old tweener who isn't too bad but isn't great? After a year of injuries? f*** a return, just move him. 3 mil is the return. This league isn't 30 paranoid GMs looking to screw each other every chance they get-favors are done and Sammy isn't some 15 point useless bum. Someone like NJ who needs forwards and has cash could get him for a wink and a handshake. All it takes is someone on the cap floor, or someone who needs a forward like him and has the cash to pay him for one measly season (which we do not in our circumstance).

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Good god, by the talk around here you'd think Babcock or Holland already came out and said Tatar will certainly be gone. Why is it that everyone thinks this will adversely affect Tatar and not Eaves, Tootoo, Miller, Bertuzzi, or Samuelsson?

Oh I know, because as the last 10+ years of free agency and trade deadlines have shown us, the Detroit Red Wings constantly throw away quality prospects right?

Kinda jumping the gun aren't we guys?

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Tatar will not be waived. He wouldn't clear them if they tried. He cannot play overseas without the team oking it. Unless Helm is on LTIR for the entire season they have to move Bertuzzi, Cleary, or Samuelsson in order to get under cap anyway, so Tatar would be losing his spot to keep Emmerton or Eaves. Anyone dumb enough to think that will happen? Eaves is gone. One of the bubble vets is gone. Emmerton is gone as soon as Helm is back.

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Good god, by the talk around here you'd think Babcock or Holland already came out and said Tatar will certainly be gone. Why is it that everyone thinks this will adversely affect Tatar and not Eaves, Tootoo, Miller, Bertuzzi, or Samuelsson?

Oh I know, because as the last 10+ years of free agency and trade deadlines have shown us, the Detroit Red Wings constantly throw away quality prospects right?

Kinda jumping the gun aren't we guys?

Welcome to LGW

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Tatar will not be waived. He wouldn't clear them if they tried. He cannot play overseas without the team oking it. Unless Helm is on LTIR for the entire season they have to move Bertuzzi, Cleary, or Samuelsson in order to get under cap anyway, so Tatar would be losing his spot to keep Emmerton or Eaves. Anyone dumb enough to think that will happen? Eaves is gone. One of the bubble vets is gone. Emmerton is gone as soon as Helm is back.

I don't see this Cleary move not affecting Tatar and other young players. It's just handcuffing your own team by adding one more forward you don't need.

I'd rather see us pay half that money for a goon, who can at least be a healthy scratch that plays on occasional nights. You know Babcock is going to have Cleary in the lineup every game, unless he's hurt.

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Holland should be hired as the new GM for Mexico's soccer team. He's not needed in Detroit anymore.

To answer the OP's question, someone is getting screwed for Cleary. Either Nyquist is sent to GR, or Tatar will be traded / goes to Europe.

Explain to me why it has to be one of those two options and not an Eaves trade, or a Tootoo trade, or some package of trades? We're 2.3 million over the cap. Trade Tootoo (1.9 million) and Lashoff (725,000) and we're cap compliant. Trade Eaves and put Helm on LTIR and we're cap compliant. Trade Eaves, put Helm on LTIR, and waive Sammy and Tootoo and we're cap AND roster compliant.

There are a bunch of different scenarios to be played out, so why is it you're so sure that this will effect Nyquist or Tatar and nobody else?

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Explain to me why it has to be one of those two options and not an Eaves trade, or a Tootoo trade, or some package of trades? We're 2.3 million over the cap. Trade Tootoo (1.9 million) and Lashoff (725,000) and we're cap compliant. Trade Eaves and put Helm on LTIR and we're cap compliant. Trade Eaves, put Helm on LTIR, and waive Sammy and Tootoo and we're cap AND roster compliant.

There are a bunch of different scenarios to be played out, so why is it you're so sure that this will effect Nyquist or Tatar and nobody else?

Because panic is therapeutic. For GMR, doomspeak is therapy. Think about it like that and suddenly almost every single post he's ever made makes sense.

Edited by shoobiedoobin

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Explain to me why it has to be one of those two options and not an Eaves trade, or a Tootoo trade, or some package of trades? We're 2.3 million over the cap. Trade Tootoo (1.9 million) and Lashoff (725,000) and we're cap compliant. Trade Eaves and put Helm on LTIR and we're cap compliant. Trade Eaves, put Helm on LTIR, and waive Sammy and Tootoo and we're cap AND roster compliant.

There are a bunch of different scenarios to be played out, so why is it you're so sure that this will effect Nyquist or Tatar and nobody else?

Why would anyone want to trade for those players? Those types of guys are available in every team's farm system, or in free agency. Not saying it might not happen, but it seems pointless for anyone to trade for an Eaves. Also, if waiving Sammy was easy, why didn't they already do it?

If they're signing Cleary just to have depth and make him a healthy scratch all season, it's a different story, but with Babcock's man love for Cleary, I have a hard time seeing that.

Whether we're cap compliant isn't what I'm worried about. It's the idea that once again an old fogey is taking attention and icetime away from younger players who may or may not be the future of this team. We know Cleary isn't.

Because panic is therapeutic. For GMR, doomspeak is therapy. Think about it like that and suddenly almost every single post he's ever made makes sense.

a-strangelove_0.jpg

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Good god, by the talk around here you'd think Babcock or Holland already came out and said Tatar will certainly be gone. Why is it that everyone thinks this will adversely affect Tatar and not Eaves, Tootoo, Miller, Bertuzzi, or Samuelsson?

Oh I know, because as the last 10+ years of free agency and trade deadlines have shown us, the Detroit Red Wings constantly throw away quality prospects right?

Kinda jumping the gun aren't we guys?

Good god, by the talk around here you'd think Babcock or Holland already came out and said Tatar will certainly be gone. Why is it that everyone thinks this will adversely affect Tatar and not Eaves, Tootoo, Miller, Bertuzzi, or Samuelsson?

Oh I know, because as the last 10+ years of free agency and trade deadlines have shown us, the Detroit Red Wings constantly throw away quality prospects right?

Kinda jumping the gun aren't we guys?

Not when you take into account Babcock's track record of favoring veterans over kids.

St. James tweeted that an initial plan was to have Cleary on the top line with Pav and Hank.

...REALLY?!? A guy who no one wanted is going to be a 1st liner for us?!?! K....

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I know some one said you already forgot Tootoo, but as well you forgot eaves and emmerton... all are still currently on our roster hahaha what a mess...

Speculation is that all three will be gone

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better not

guy had 16 goals in the playoffs and 4 goals in 14 games with the wings. cleary had 9 in 48 games

would be one of the best 3rd lines in the league IMO nyquist andy/helm tatar. speeeeeeed and skill

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Why would anyone want to trade for those players? Those types of guys are available in every team's farm system, or in free agency. Not saying it might not happen, but it seems pointless for anyone to trade for an Eaves. Also, if waiving Sammy was easy, why didn't they already do it?

If they're signing Cleary just to have depth and make him a healthy scratch all season, it's a different story, but with Babcock's man love for Cleary, I have a hard time seeing that.

Whether we're cap compliant isn't what I'm worried about. It's the idea that once again an old fogey is taking attention and icetime away from younger players who may or may not be the future of this team. We know Cleary isn't.

a-strangelove_0.jpg

Exactly why I am not happy with this deal.

Yeah, this deal made me so annoyed I got my old account and hopped on back.

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I love Dano, and I'm happy he's back for the sheer fact we share a similar bloodline, but Tatar needs to play this season. The guy was the friggin AHL playoff MVP at 22 years old. See, I know I'm no NHL GM or anything, but that screams "NHL READY" to me. Nyquist and Tatar should be playing with Zetterberg and Datsyuk to learn how to be good pros, and maybe even stars. The same way Zetterberg and Datsyuk learned from Hull, Shanahan and Yzerman. It's a transition phase, we're gonna see even more of it when Jurco, Pulkkinen and Frk are ready... Oh ya and f*** you Sammy for still being on the team!!!

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