stephen weiss

[Z and D for the C 712]

Do you Filppula fans really think that he would be doing any better than Weiss had he stayed? This whole struggle is team-wide.

Yes, he would be doing better. Maybe not as good as he is doing in Tampa right now, because as I've said all along, the problem with the second line has never been Filppula, but the wingers. As right now the problem is like not Weiss (though he is performing particularly poorly), it is the wingers. We're a really strong team with center, but have few good wingers.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Yes, he would be doing better. Maybe not as good as he is doing in Tampa right now, because as I've said all along, the problem with the second line has never been Filppula, but the wingers. As right now the problem is like not Weiss (though he is performing particularly poorly), it is the wingers. We're a really strong team with center, but have few good wingers.

Of course he would be doing better....

Do you Filppula fans really think that he would be doing any better than Weiss had he stayed? This whole struggle is team-wide.

This guy gets it.

[Dabura 12,232]

Do you Filppula fans really think that he would be doing any better than Weiss had he stayed? This whole struggle is team-wide.

What this team needs is a leader. A leader like Valtteri Filppula. We'd have the 2013-14 Cup by now if Flip were still with us. But now we'll never win anything because Weiss is with us.

*runs his fingers through his hair, pretending it's Flip's hair*

[redhasek2013 11]

This team sucks. I've seen better Red Wings Teams in the past. Are Coach is lucky the management likes him or he'd have been fired by now. The team isn't playing for him. They need a change soon. or make a couple of Trades. They need to make changes in this new NHL or there 22 straight Playoffs are over this year if they don't do something now to fix this.

[Guest Playmaker]

What this team needs is a leader. A leader like Valtteri Filppula. We'd have the 2013-14 Cup by now if Flip were still with us. But now we'll never win anything because Weiss is with us.

*runs his fingers through his hair, pretending it's Flip's hair*

Clearly, Filppula was the worst player ever to don the Winged Wheel. Never scored a single goal. Never had a single assist. Never played defense. Always floated. He stood there at the blue line and never moved. Every game we lost was his fault. Obviously all we had to do was get rid of him and our troubles would be over. No one with an ounce of hockey intelligence would sign a slacker like him with no offensive, defensive or hockey skills at all.

Thankfully, the Messiah, Stephen Weiss has come to save us. Luckily he's so highly skilled, it should only take him half the season to learn that foreign hockey concept, back checking. Fortunately the Wings don't need scoring, as evidenced by the presence of Weiss, Cleary, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi, etc. The league has decided just to award the Wings points for our heart, grit and character. Warrior points.

[Fonzarelli 73]

My question is what is Babcock's system? This year I haven't seen any semblance of an organized attack, especially on the PP. Babcock has been here for a lot of years and the players still have no clue what to do .

[frankgrimes 1,836]

My question is what is Babcock's system? This year I haven't seen any semblance of an organized attack, especially on the PP. Babcock has been here for a lot of years and the players still have no clue what to do .

used to be puck possession but atm I'am not sure whatever it is ... it doesn't work.

I feel a bit sorry for Weiss but if him and the DetroitRedWings are a missmatch Kenny needs to trade him at the tdl and admit his mistake. I. hope it doesn't come to that point but you need to be prepared.

[Z and D for the C 712]

What this team needs is a leader. A leader like Valtteri Filppula. We'd have the 2013-14 Cup by now if Flip were still with us. But now we'll never win anything because Weiss is with us.

*runs his fingers through his hair, pretending it's Flip's hair*

If you asked me, I'd say that people resorted to idiotic hyperbole when they either don't have an argument, or aren't smart enough to make one.

Which one are you?

[Z and D for the C 712]

Of course he would be doing better....

You must agree that Filppula would be doing better, because you're only argument here is that Weiss is doing so poorly because he's on a new team. But Filppula, if he was in Weiss's spot, isn't new to the Red Wings, so he would be doing better. I'm using your logic here. What little I can scrape together, that is.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Z and D for the C

[number9 3,297]

I'm basing it on his entire career. Also, I believe we won the Stanley Cup with Filppula centering the second line and went to game seven of the finals with Fil centering the second line.

When Fil had his 66 point season it wasn't because he wasn't playing center, it was because he was playing with linemates who aren't lazy and who can make plays. Correlation =/= Causation.

Weiss has had a more successful career than Fil...

[Z and D for the C 712]

Weiss has had a more successful career than Fil...

Really? Wiess has basically been the Panther's #1 guy forever while Filppula, at absolute best, has been #4 in the depth chart, and more like around #5/6/7 for most of his career. And Weiss has only marginally more PPG than Filppula (.59 vs .53). Filppula also has a Stanley Cup and has never missed the playoffs. If I was a hockey player, I would much rather have Filppula's career over Weiss.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Z and D for the C

[number9 3,297]

Really? Wiess has basically been the Panther's #1 guy forever while Filppula, at absolute best, has been #4 in the depth chart, and more like around #5/6/7 for most of his career. And Weiss has only marginally more PPG than Filppula (.59 vs .53). Filppula also has a Stanley Cup and has never missed the playoffs. If I was a hockey player, I would much rather have Filppula's career over Weiss.

Weiss has scored more and much more consistently. Sure he was a number 1 center, but he was also on arguably the worst team in the league all those years, while Fil has been on a championship caliber team his entire career.

Funny how you talk about Fil and his success as a 2nd line center here, and now suddenly he's in a 6th and 7th role

[Z and D for the C 712]

Sure he was a number 1 center, but he was also on arguably the worst team in the league all those years, while Fil has been on a championship caliber team his entire career.

If the only thing that matters for a player's production is whether or not he's on a championship caliber team, then what separates the good teams from the bad teams? The fact is he was on the top of the depth chart, with the most TOI likely of their forwards, and he still didn't produce that much. If your role is reduced, you will produce less. It's simple and it's obvious.

And yes, Filppula has never been nearly as high on the depth chart as Weiss. Just because he is the #2 center doesn't make him #2 on the depth chart. Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Franzen have always been higher up than Filppula. That places him at #4 at best. If he was here this year, he would be 5th behind Alfreddson. When Hudler was here, he was behind Hudler. When Hossa was here, Filppula wasn't even in the top 6 for most of the year. He has never been high on the depth chart, period. Not that I would agree with his placment, but that is where the management has placed him.

If you argue that place on the depth chart has nothing to do with production, you're a fool. Simple as. Weiss has played with much better linemates over his career as well. And again, has only marginally better stats to show for it.

[number9 3,297]

If the only thing that matters for a player's production is whether or not he's on a championship caliber team, then what separates the good teams from the bad teams? The fact is he was on the top of the depth chart, with the most TOI likely of their forwards, and he still didn't produce that much. If your role is reduced, you will produce less. It's simple and it's obvious.

And yes, Filppula has never been nearly as high on the depth chart as Weiss. Just because he is the #2 center doesn't make him #2 on the depth chart. Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Franzen have always been higher up than Filppula. That places him at #4 at best. If he was here this year, he would be 5th behind Alfreddson. When Hudler was here, he was behind Hudler. When Hossa was here, Filppula wasn't even in the top 6 for most of the year. He has never been high on the depth chart, period. Not that I would agree with his placment, but that is where the management has placed him.

If you argue that place on the depth chart has nothing to do with production, you're a fool. Simple as. Weiss has played with much better linemates over his career as well. And again, has only marginally better stats to show for it.

I'm not arguing that. I'm saying Weiss was the #1 center on a terrible team and Filppula was the #2/#3 center on one of the best teams. Weiss is inflated bc of his TOI and deflated because the team around him was awful. Fil is inflated bc the team around him was awesome and deflated bc he played less of role on the team bc of that. In my book it kind of evens out. I give Weiss the edge however. Proven he's capable on a top line. Experienced captain. Scores more. Scores consistently.

Why Weiss is cold now and Fil is hot now we don't know. Could be a million different reasons or just plain luck. Hudler is out scoring most of the league right now and Mike Smith has more goals than Giroux. Saying we should have kept Fil over Weiss this early is wayyyy too soon IMO.

[Richdg 267]

A couple of things...

1. most expected a slower start for Weiss while he adjusts to the new team, system, and line mates.

2. is he 100% recovered from his wrist injury?

3. Weiss is playing with worse linemates here than what he had in Florida. Their top line was/is pretty good were as our second sucks. Versteeg is better than everyone we have on lines 2-4.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

If the only thing that matters for a player's production is whether or not he's on a championship caliber team, then what separates the good teams from the bad teams? The fact is he was on the top of the depth chart, with the most TOI likely of their forwards, and he still didn't produce that much. If your role is reduced, you will produce less. It's simple and it's obvious.

And yes, Filppula has never been nearly as high on the depth chart as Weiss. Just because he is the #2 center doesn't make him #2 on the depth chart. Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Franzen have always been higher up than Filppula. That places him at #4 at best. If he was here this year, he would be 5th behind Alfreddson. When Hudler was here, he was behind Hudler. When Hossa was here, Filppula wasn't even in the top 6 for most of the year. He has never been high on the depth chart, period. Not that I would agree with his placment, but that is where the management has placed him.

If you argue that place on the depth chart has nothing to do with production, you're a fool. Simple as. Weiss has played with much better linemates over his career as well. And again, has only marginally better stats to show for it.

Your role on the team is indicative of your performance. Not the other way around.

He failed to move up the depth chart because he failed to provide offence on a consistent basis.

[Ekmanc 586]

Well I for one am honestly worried about Weiss, I have never been particularly impressed with him and I wonder if he will ever be the 2nd center that we all hope for.

[number9 3,297]

A couple of things...

1. most expected a slower start for Weiss while he adjusts to the new team, system, and line mates.

2. is he 100% recovered from his wrist injury?

3. Weiss is playing with worse linemates here than what he had in Florida. Their top line was/is pretty good were as our second sucks. Versteeg is better than everyone we have on lines 2-4.

1. Then why is Fil off to a hot start? Magically doesn't have to adjust to a new team, system, line mates?

3. Disagree entirely. Franzen and Alfie > Fleischmann Versteeg

[wings87 1,290]

Here's a novel idea change the system, because with this team the puck possession system just doesn't work. The team just doesn't have the players to rely on possessing the puck for long stretches, time to admit that fact and adapt. No more time for denial all denial gets you is run into the ground by subpar injured teams like the rangers.

[T.Low 1,011]

Here's a novel idea change the system, because with this team the puck possession system just doesn't work. The team just doesn't have the players to rely on possessing the puck for long stretches, time to admit that fact and adapt. No more time for denial all denial gets you is run into the ground by subpar injured teams like the rangers.

You mean we still play puck possession? Hmm, didn't recognize it...

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

So 95% of lgwers have already given up on weiss.

[Euro_Twins 4,485]

So 95% of lgwers have already given up on weiss.

Since game 1. I have given up on arguing with them. Filpulla was god NO ONE wanted him gone... Whatever.

[redhasek2013 11]

http://youtu.be/yzOklYx2-EI?t=3m23s

Brett Hull couldn't have said it better about are 2013-2014 (2003) team lol. Useless is a good word to start with.

Edited October 28, 2013 by redhasek2013

[VM1138 1,921]

Only Red Wings fans would bitterly argue Filppula vs. Weiss. And maybe Toronto fans.

Fact is, everyone's offense has disappeared so I wouldn't think Flip would he doing well, wither had he stayed.

Flip was never a bad player. He was never dynamic though, never controlled the pace on the ice, rarely made great things happen, and was terrified of shooting. I'm glad he is succeeding now but I don't fool myself into thinking things would be different had he stayed.

1. Then why is Fil off to a hot start? Magically doesn't have to adjust to a new team, system, line mates?

Maybe not getting re-signed by Holland lit a fire under his butt? Flip has way more to prove than Weiss does. Also, playing on a team with Stamkos and other shooters might motivate him. One things is for sure, except for maybe Zetterberg, the Wings don't have highly effective and consistent shooters. Pavs could be but he focuses on pkaymaking.

[wings87 1,290]

You mean we still play puck possession? Hmm, didn't recognize it...

That's the problem they still think the're a puck possession team.