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wings87

stephen weiss

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Surprised no one is calling dropping Hudler dumb considering his production right now (unless I missed it)

We all kno both Huds and Fil will slow down, and guys like Weiss will probably speed up, everyone needs to chill

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Tell that to Tampa who has Filppula with 9 points in 10 games centering his own line.

Dude for the last time you can't base a player on 10 games. Mike Smith has more goals than Claude Giroux right now. Is Smith a better goal scorer than Giroux? Heck no. All of you are jumping the gun by a lot right now.

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Let me clarify, filppula being able to play a two way game was what Tampa wanted, they didn't want him to change his style. Detroit expects Weiss to back check and it just run and gun, I'm sorry if you think I'm "retarded" by seeing the obvious difference here. Who knows if Weiss will pan out but calling someone retarded for mentioning a simple fact is beyond ridiculous and is completely unnecessary

Florida didn't play a run and gun style and neither did Weiss. Part of his appeal was supposed to be that he was responsible defensively, had "leadership skills", and could provide an offensive spark as a solid second line center that Filppula supposedly couldn't. Weiss has not been expected to change his game at all. Instead of making excuses, why not just say he's struggling, and leave it at that?

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Let me clarify, filppula being able to play a two way game was what Tampa wanted, they didn't want him to change his style. Detroit expects Weiss to back check and it just run and gun, I'm sorry if you think I'm "retarded" by seeing the obvious difference here. Who knows if Weiss will pan out but calling someone retarded for mentioning a simple fact is beyond ridiculous and is completely unnecessary

Weiss was never expected to back check in Florida? They just said, "hey man, don't worry about that defense stuff we just want you to focus on offense." I just don't understand these imaginary points you try to make. Why are you even trying still? Also, what are you even trying to say? Now that he is in Detroit he is lost temporarily because he is now expected to play two way hockey? Even if that was true, which it is not...... You would be simply telling me that Filppula is the better hockey player.

Oh and your right about Filppula, Tampa Bay just changes to Detroit's systems when Filppula is on the ice. Hey Fil, just do what Babcock told you to do in the neutral zone, defensive zone, and offensive zone.. Oh and can you teach your line mates that stuff too? Thanks Fil we just want you to be extra comfortable here in Tampa unlike Weiss being forced to play two way hockey back in Detroit.

Whats Tampa even doing now that they don't run the 1-3-1, haven't watched them play this year.

.

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Dude for the last time you can't base a player on 10 games.

I'm basing it on his entire career. Also, I believe we won the Stanley Cup with Filppula centering the second line and went to game seven of the finals with Fil centering the second line.

When Fil had his 66 point season it wasn't because he wasn't playing center, it was because he was playing with linemates who aren't lazy and who can make plays. Correlation =/= Causation.

Edited by Z and D for the C

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Do you Filppula fans really think that he would be doing any better than Weiss had he stayed? This whole struggle is team-wide.

Yes, he would be doing better. Maybe not as good as he is doing in Tampa right now, because as I've said all along, the problem with the second line has never been Filppula, but the wingers. As right now the problem is like not Weiss (though he is performing particularly poorly), it is the wingers. We're a really strong team with center, but have few good wingers.

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Yes, he would be doing better. Maybe not as good as he is doing in Tampa right now, because as I've said all along, the problem with the second line has never been Filppula, but the wingers. As right now the problem is like not Weiss (though he is performing particularly poorly), it is the wingers. We're a really strong team with center, but have few good wingers.

Of course he would be doing better.... :rolleyes:

Do you Filppula fans really think that he would be doing any better than Weiss had he stayed? This whole struggle is team-wide.

This guy gets it.

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Do you Filppula fans really think that he would be doing any better than Weiss had he stayed? This whole struggle is team-wide.

What this team needs is a leader. A leader like Valtteri Filppula. We'd have the 2013-14 Cup by now if Flip were still with us. But now we'll never win anything because Weiss is with us.

*runs his fingers through his hair, pretending it's Flip's hair* :wub:

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This team sucks. I've seen better Red Wings Teams in the past. Are Coach is lucky the management likes him or he'd have been fired by now. The team isn't playing for him. They need a change soon. or make a couple of Trades. They need to make changes in this new NHL or there 22 straight Playoffs are over this year if they don't do something now to fix this.

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What this team needs is a leader. A leader like Valtteri Filppula. We'd have the 2013-14 Cup by now if Flip were still with us. But now we'll never win anything because Weiss is with us.

*runs his fingers through his hair, pretending it's Flip's hair* :wub:

Clearly, Filppula was the worst player ever to don the Winged Wheel. Never scored a single goal. Never had a single assist. Never played defense. Always floated. He stood there at the blue line and never moved. Every game we lost was his fault. Obviously all we had to do was get rid of him and our troubles would be over. No one with an ounce of hockey intelligence would sign a slacker like him with no offensive, defensive or hockey skills at all.

Thankfully, the Messiah, Stephen Weiss has come to save us. Luckily he's so highly skilled, it should only take him half the season to learn that foreign hockey concept, back checking. Fortunately the Wings don't need scoring, as evidenced by the presence of Weiss, Cleary, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi, etc. The league has decided just to award the Wings points for our heart, grit and character. Warrior points.

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My question is what is Babcock's system? This year I haven't seen any semblance of an organized attack, especially on the PP. Babcock has been here for a lot of years and the players still have no clue what to do .
used to be puck possession but atm I'am not sure whatever it is ... it doesn't work.

I feel a bit sorry for Weiss but if him and the DetroitRedWings are a missmatch Kenny needs to trade him at the tdl and admit his mistake. I. hope it doesn't come to that point but you need to be prepared.

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What this team needs is a leader. A leader like Valtteri Filppula. We'd have the 2013-14 Cup by now if Flip were still with us. But now we'll never win anything because Weiss is with us.

*runs his fingers through his hair, pretending it's Flip's hair* :wub:

If you asked me, I'd say that people resorted to idiotic hyperbole when they either don't have an argument, or aren't smart enough to make one.

Which one are you?

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Of course he would be doing better.... :rolleyes:

You must agree that Filppula would be doing better, because you're only argument here is that Weiss is doing so poorly because he's on a new team. But Filppula, if he was in Weiss's spot, isn't new to the Red Wings, so he would be doing better. I'm using your logic here. What little I can scrape together, that is.

Edited by Z and D for the C

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I'm basing it on his entire career. Also, I believe we won the Stanley Cup with Filppula centering the second line and went to game seven of the finals with Fil centering the second line.

When Fil had his 66 point season it wasn't because he wasn't playing center, it was because he was playing with linemates who aren't lazy and who can make plays. Correlation =/= Causation.

Weiss has had a more successful career than Fil...

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Weiss has had a more successful career than Fil...

Really? Wiess has basically been the Panther's #1 guy forever while Filppula, at absolute best, has been #4 in the depth chart, and more like around #5/6/7 for most of his career. And Weiss has only marginally more PPG than Filppula (.59 vs .53). Filppula also has a Stanley Cup and has never missed the playoffs. If I was a hockey player, I would much rather have Filppula's career over Weiss.

Edited by Z and D for the C

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Really? Wiess has basically been the Panther's #1 guy forever while Filppula, at absolute best, has been #4 in the depth chart, and more like around #5/6/7 for most of his career. And Weiss has only marginally more PPG than Filppula (.59 vs .53). Filppula also has a Stanley Cup and has never missed the playoffs. If I was a hockey player, I would much rather have Filppula's career over Weiss.

Weiss has scored more and much more consistently. Sure he was a number 1 center, but he was also on arguably the worst team in the league all those years, while Fil has been on a championship caliber team his entire career.

Funny how you talk about Fil and his success as a 2nd line center here, and now suddenly he's in a 6th and 7th role

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Sure he was a number 1 center, but he was also on arguably the worst team in the league all those years, while Fil has been on a championship caliber team his entire career.

If the only thing that matters for a player's production is whether or not he's on a championship caliber team, then what separates the good teams from the bad teams? The fact is he was on the top of the depth chart, with the most TOI likely of their forwards, and he still didn't produce that much. If your role is reduced, you will produce less. It's simple and it's obvious.

And yes, Filppula has never been nearly as high on the depth chart as Weiss. Just because he is the #2 center doesn't make him #2 on the depth chart. Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Franzen have always been higher up than Filppula. That places him at #4 at best. If he was here this year, he would be 5th behind Alfreddson. When Hudler was here, he was behind Hudler. When Hossa was here, Filppula wasn't even in the top 6 for most of the year. He has never been high on the depth chart, period. Not that I would agree with his placment, but that is where the management has placed him.

If you argue that place on the depth chart has nothing to do with production, you're a fool. Simple as. Weiss has played with much better linemates over his career as well. And again, has only marginally better stats to show for it.

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If the only thing that matters for a player's production is whether or not he's on a championship caliber team, then what separates the good teams from the bad teams? The fact is he was on the top of the depth chart, with the most TOI likely of their forwards, and he still didn't produce that much. If your role is reduced, you will produce less. It's simple and it's obvious.

And yes, Filppula has never been nearly as high on the depth chart as Weiss. Just because he is the #2 center doesn't make him #2 on the depth chart. Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Franzen have always been higher up than Filppula. That places him at #4 at best. If he was here this year, he would be 5th behind Alfreddson. When Hudler was here, he was behind Hudler. When Hossa was here, Filppula wasn't even in the top 6 for most of the year. He has never been high on the depth chart, period. Not that I would agree with his placment, but that is where the management has placed him.

If you argue that place on the depth chart has nothing to do with production, you're a fool. Simple as. Weiss has played with much better linemates over his career as well. And again, has only marginally better stats to show for it.

I'm not arguing that. I'm saying Weiss was the #1 center on a terrible team and Filppula was the #2/#3 center on one of the best teams. Weiss is inflated bc of his TOI and deflated because the team around him was awful. Fil is inflated bc the team around him was awesome and deflated bc he played less of role on the team bc of that. In my book it kind of evens out. I give Weiss the edge however. Proven he's capable on a top line. Experienced captain. Scores more. Scores consistently.

Why Weiss is cold now and Fil is hot now we don't know. Could be a million different reasons or just plain luck. Hudler is out scoring most of the league right now and Mike Smith has more goals than Giroux. Saying we should have kept Fil over Weiss this early is wayyyy too soon IMO.

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A couple of things...

1. most expected a slower start for Weiss while he adjusts to the new team, system, and line mates.

2. is he 100% recovered from his wrist injury?

3. Weiss is playing with worse linemates here than what he had in Florida. Their top line was/is pretty good were as our second sucks. Versteeg is better than everyone we have on lines 2-4.

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If the only thing that matters for a player's production is whether or not he's on a championship caliber team, then what separates the good teams from the bad teams? The fact is he was on the top of the depth chart, with the most TOI likely of their forwards, and he still didn't produce that much. If your role is reduced, you will produce less. It's simple and it's obvious.

And yes, Filppula has never been nearly as high on the depth chart as Weiss. Just because he is the #2 center doesn't make him #2 on the depth chart. Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Franzen have always been higher up than Filppula. That places him at #4 at best. If he was here this year, he would be 5th behind Alfreddson. When Hudler was here, he was behind Hudler. When Hossa was here, Filppula wasn't even in the top 6 for most of the year. He has never been high on the depth chart, period. Not that I would agree with his placment, but that is where the management has placed him.

If you argue that place on the depth chart has nothing to do with production, you're a fool. Simple as. Weiss has played with much better linemates over his career as well. And again, has only marginally better stats to show for it.

Your role on the team is indicative of your performance. Not the other way around.

He failed to move up the depth chart because he failed to provide offence on a consistent basis.

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A couple of things...

1. most expected a slower start for Weiss while he adjusts to the new team, system, and line mates.

2. is he 100% recovered from his wrist injury?

3. Weiss is playing with worse linemates here than what he had in Florida. Their top line was/is pretty good were as our second sucks. Versteeg is better than everyone we have on lines 2-4.

1. Then why is Fil off to a hot start? Magically doesn't have to adjust to a new team, system, line mates?

3. Disagree entirely. Franzen and Alfie > Fleischmann Versteeg

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Here's a novel idea change the system, because with this team the puck possession system just doesn't work. The team just doesn't have the players to rely on possessing the puck for long stretches, time to admit that fact and adapt. No more time for denial all denial gets you is run into the ground by subpar injured teams like the rangers.

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