• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
wings87

stephen weiss

Rate this topic

318 posts in this topic

You can go through just about any player's points and there are going to be goals and assists that maybe the player didn't "deserve". Just as there are points that should have been had but were taken away on an outstanding save by the goalie or whatever. I haven't watched all the Tampa games or even most of one, but what I have seen Filppula's stats are indicative of his play. Even if he had zero points and played horribly, it doesn't mean that Weiss hasn't totally underachieved.

Weiss has underachieved.

No, lets talk about how incredibly biased you are and how you completely bulls*** everything you say, such as saying that 2 months is plenty of recovery time and then a week later say that 7 months isn't enough recovery time for comparable injuries.

I don't recall ever having compared their injuries. You're thinking of somebody else.

That said, the statistics I've listed for Filppula, both now and in earlier discussions, have all been correct. They are factual, and are therefore not at all the product of bias or bull****, whatever you actually mean by the latter. Whatever the case, I see you're once again resorting to your previous tack of attempting to undermine my credibility. Focus on the facts instead; this is a discussion forum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't watched all the Tampa games or even most of one, but what I have seen Filppula's stats are indicative of his play.

They are. Go take a look at the TBL forum, they love him.

Even if he had zero points and played horribly, it doesn't mean that Weiss hasn't totally underachieved.

See, for Crymson, it does. Just like, for Crymson, wasting time and nit picking each of Filppula's points means that he didn't just say that 2 months is more than enough recovery time but 7 months isn't enough. Which he totally did say.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't recall ever having compared their injuries. You're thinking of somebody else.

That said, the statistics I've listed for Filppula, both now and in earlier discussions, have all been correct. They are factual, and are therefore not at all the product of bias or bull****, whatever you actually mean by the latter. Whatever the case, I see you're once again resorting to your previous tack of attempting to undermine my credibility. Focus on the facts instead; this is a discussion forum.

Focusing on facts? What could possibly be more subjective than what you said of Filppula points? If that stuff "shouldn't be counted" then no player would score more than 25 points a season. And that is factual (you know, just because I say it is) so I'm not biased. In fact, everything I ever said about Filppula ever is factual, so it's not biased. Boom. Argument over.

As for the injuries, you're wrong again. After I said that Filppula poor season was due, in part, to his pre-season injury, you promptly dismissed that, twice, and said 2 months was plenty of recovery time.

Your other two arguments likewise hold no water. With regards to his injury, Filppula had two months to recover before entering play.

Filppula had two months to recover from what tends to be an injury of 6-8 weeks length.

So according to you, 7 months is a shorter time than 2 months. And you're trying to sling a completely subjective assessment as fact when you say stupid s*** like that. Okay.

Edited by Z and D for the C

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Focusing on facts? What could possibly be more subjective than what you said of Filppula points? And that is factual (you know, just because I say it is) so I'm not biased. In fact, everything I ever said about Filppula ever is factual, so it's not biased. Boom. Argument over.

Mine was a report drawn from video evidence. I did nothing but describe each goal and assist that he has logged thus far. I suggest that you do so as well before we continue discussing this particular point.

If that stuff "shouldn't be counted" then no player would score more than 25 points a season.

That is thoroughly untrue.

As for the injuries, you're wrong again. After I said that Filppula poor season was due, in part, to his pre-season injury, you promptly dismissed that, twice, and said 2 months was plenty of recovery time.

So according to you, 7 months is a shorter time than 2 months. And you're trying to sling a completely subjective assessment as fact when you say stupid s*** like that. Okay.

Had I attributed Weiss's poor play to his injury, then you would have a point. However, I have never once done so---you may check through my content to confirm this---and your accusation is therefore totally without merit.

Edited by Crymson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Defensive liability also means NOT doing the following: taking to puck away from the opposition, taking your mark out of the play, and making a great play with your stick. You all just brought up OFFENSIVE things. Making passes in your defensive zone is still offense when you have the puck FYI

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As if to rub it in, Flip lobbed a harmless backhander towards the goalie tonight that somehow trickled in for his 5th goal of the year. :lol:

Yep, and his assist tonight was another easy pass to a wide-open defenseman at the point; the latter took a shot that was tipped in for the goal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys have made this thread all about whether Weiss is a more skilled player than Filppula, which I think misses the point. The real concern is whether or not Weiss can be a better player, FOR US, than Filppula was. And in spite of his struggles, I'm not sure that he won't be. He's looking better, and so far this season it's not like anybody else on our team has set the world on fire...to include D and Z. Who cares what Filppula's totals are, we've seen what our teams looks like with him (for several years now) and it didn't win. Time to try something new.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We didn't win? I could have swore we won the Cup in 2008 and wasn't it Flip's goal that sealed it? I guess we're not winning with Datsyuk or Zetterberg, so we should get rid of them, too. But I digress. In any case, I have just the opposite feeling. When we're watching games and saying, hey well, Weiss didn't suck tonight, that's not really a good sign. He does not look more skilled to me than Filppula, he doesn't look better defensively than Filppula and he doesn't look to be a better playmaker than Filppula, nor does he bring any more of a physical game than Filppula did. Does Filppula seem to have not played up to his full potential at times? Absolutely. But to act like he was the sole reason we haven't won the Cup in the last 5 years is a bit of a stretch. Do I think he was worth 5/25? Probably not, but I'm cringing at the thought of what Weiss will be like at the end of his 5 years.

Yep, and his assist tonight was another easy pass to a wide-open defenseman at the point; the latter took a shot that was tipped in for the goal.

So why don't you analyze all the assists that Weiss has? Oh wait a minute. If assists are so easy to get, why doesn't Weiss have any? I guess that assist that Zetterberg got was just an easy pass out front to a wide open Bertuzzi.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So why don't you analyze all the assists that Weiss has? Oh wait a minute. If assists are so easy to get, why doesn't Weiss have any? I guess that assist that Zetterberg got was just an easy pass out front to a wide open Bertuzzi.

Zetterberg's pass went through the crease and between the goalie and a defenseman with perfect accuracy. Try again.

We didn't win? I could have swore we won the Cup in 2008 and wasn't it Flip's goal that sealed it?

No. It wasn't. He scored the first goal of that game. Zetterberg had the game-winning goal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Flip never had consistency. Just like its too soon to judge Weiss, it's too soon to give Filppula the Art Ross trophy. He's playing in an easier conference now, too, remember. Hence why his performance is thus far better than previously. Let's see where he is later in the season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Zetterberg's pass went through the crease and between the goalie and a defenseman with perfect accuracy. Try again.

No. It wasn't. He scored the first goal of that game. Zetterberg had the game-winning goal.

If I remember correctly it was rafalski that scored the first then fil made it a 2 goal game. Malkin scored on a power play at the end of the third and then Z made it 3-1 and the pens scored a late one

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In 15 games:

Filppula 5G 6A 11pts

Weiss 2G 0A 2 pts

Ouch. :(

Not just looking at the points it's the softness with which Weiss has played, but the last three he has looked completely different. I think he is getting close to breaking out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not just looking at the points it's the softness with which Weiss has played, but the last three he has looked completely different. I think he is getting close to breaking out.

I missed the game last night. Did Weiss have any good chances or set up any?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I missed the game last night. Did Weiss have any good chances or set up any?

Weiss was out there (and would have gotten secondary assists) for a couple well set up shots by our defense in the third per, pretty sure they were lashoff and smith. As usual, he has been dominant on faceoffs winning ~65%

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Weiss was out there (and would have gotten secondary assists) for a couple well set up shots by our defense in the third per, pretty sure they were lashoff and smith. As usual, he has been dominant on faceoffs winning ~65%

Ya I just seen a little and remembered him making a nice seem pass to I believe cleary or Tatar in the third period on the pp. I really hope Weiss breaks out. If we can get him and mule going along with bring nyquist up then wow this offense could be lethal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The points are going to come. He's great on draws, competes hard every shift, and has great vision. Enough with the Fil debate, he's not here anymore and is never coming back. Water under the bridge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's probably not quite as skilled as Filp, but that's not the point. Filp has mad skills, he just wasn't leading a second line and producing. Weiss has the potential to be more effective than we saw from Fil.

Weiss is going to play somewhat timid in a new system for a while , especially after being off for so long. I think that second line will start clicking after Christmas or All-Star break, when we need them to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's probably not quite as skilled as Filp, but that's not the point. Filp has mad skills, he just wasn't leading a second line and producing. Weiss has the potential to be more effective than we saw from Fil.

Weiss is going to play somewhat timid in a new system for a while , especially after being off for so long. I think that second line will start clicking after Christmas or All-Star break, when we need them to.

Well it all depends who's playing on that second line

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As if to rub it in, Flip lobbed a harmless backhander towards the goalie tonight that somehow trickled in for his 5th goal of the year. :lol:

"Flip sucks because he never takes the puck to the net!!!!!"

*Flip scores a goal taking sending the puck to the net*

"Pft that goal should have never gone in. Flip sucks"

Had I attributed Weiss's poor play to his injury, then you would have a point.

That is literally exactly what you did. After quote Weiss's statements on his poor play you said that it was his first game in 7 months and that recovery takes time. You explicitly implied that he was performing poorly, at least in part due to his injury. What else is that supposed to mean?

Also, trying to use fancy, lawyer-y sounding words and phrases make you neither intelligent nor correct.

It will be impossible to judge Weiss correctly from an offensive standpoint as long as Cleary is on his line.

Don't get your hopes up, that never stopped those judgements for Filppula. But people hate Flip around here for no reason so just maybe.

Edited by Z and D for the C

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, and his assist tonight was another easy pass to a wide-open defenseman at the point; the latter took a shot that was tipped in for the goal.

So why isn't Weiss getting easy points to wide-open defensemen at the point or getting goals that he doesn't deserve from harmless backhanders or goals on bad goaltenders that shouldn't have gone in?

The fact is a good play is a good play. He made a good recovery to keep the puck away from the opposition and in the zone and made a good pass to the point which resulted in a goal. People always cried about Filppula's lack of production and now that he is producing, he still gets no credit. This is like the Fox News of Filppula. Just because fox news is so far to the right doesn't make all other news liberal. Just because everyone here hates Filppula and gives him no credit doesn't make me biased because I give him the credit he deserves.

Edited by Z and D for the C

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is literally exactly what you did. After quote Weiss's statements on his poor play you said that it was his first game in 7 months and that recovery takes time. You explicitly implied that he was performing poorly, at least in part due to his injury. What else is that supposed to mean?

Following is the statement in question:

It's also worth nothing that the season opener was his first game in seven months. Full recovery takes time.

It does not take a stroke of genius to realize that when I preface such a line with "Weiss hasn't played a game in seven months," I don't mean that Weiss is still injured, but rather that returning to full game shape after seven months away takes time. Had I said something along the lines of "Weiss hasn't had enough time to recover," then you might have a point. As things stand, you do not. Again.

Also, trying to use fancy, lawyer-y sounding words and phrases make you neither intelligent nor correct.

I'm neither a lawyer nor a purple proser. The words I use inhabit my vocabulary.

Don't get your hopes up, that never stopped those judgements for Filppula. But people hate Flip around here for no reason so just maybe.

Yikes! Why are you getting so angry and combative over criticism of Filppula?

So why isn't Weiss getting easy points to wide-open defensemen at the point or getting goals that he doesn't deserve from harmless backhanders or goals on bad goaltenders that shouldn't have gone in?

The fact is a good play is a good play. He made a good recovery to keep the puck away from the opposition and in the zone and made a good pass to the point which resulted in a goal. People always cried about Filppula's lack of production and now that he is producing, he still gets no credit. This is like the Fox News of Filppula. Just because fox news is so far to the right doesn't make all other news liberal. Just because everyone here hates Filppula and gives him no credit doesn't make me biased because I give him the credit he deserves.

Filppula is presently playing quite a bit better than Weiss is. However, he is not the point-producing machine you make him out to be---numbers don't always tell the whole story---and Weiss is not the total loss you so ardently try to make him out to be. He's a month into his five-year contract. The same is true of Filppula. Time will tell who was the better choice.

Edited by Crymson
Frozen-Man likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It does not take a stroke of genius to realize that when I preface such a line with "Weiss hasn't played a game in seven months," I don't mean that Weiss is still injured, but rather that returning to full game shape after seven months away takes time. Had I said something along the lines of "Weiss hasn't had enough time to recover," then you might have a point. As things stand, you do not. Again.

I'm neither a lawyer nor a purple proser. The words I use inhabit my vocabulary.

Recovery does not mean "get into game shape". No one has ever used it in that way. Ever. For someone with such a verbose, vociferous vocabulary, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't use the word "recover" in such an incorrect context. Saying that recovery takes time is completely, explicitly and entirely obviously implying that "Weiss hasn't had enough time to recover". Apparently, though, this does take a smart person to understand. You're not understanding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0