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wings87

stephen weiss

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Hmm...interesting how different people see things from their own perspective. I for one thought that Weiss played his worst game last night but prior to that, he has been solid. Let's remember, it's not like we acquired Stamkos.....Weiss is a hard working second line centre. Maybe the expectations are a bit high?

He's playing a very different style of hockey on a very different hockey team. Its hard to adjust after spending 10 years on a team like Flordia. Until 2 games ago, he was playing with two stone cold pillars in Franzenfloat and Alfie/ Cleary.

To be honest I like the way he plays. He is effective on the back check, works grinder hard, effective along the boards and he hauls azz every shift. The scoring will come as he gets familiar with the system and his team mates. For the cap hit, he's a solid, heart guy with an offensive upside!

Think of it this way, he makes 1.9 million more than Sammeulsson! Anyone else thinks we got an amazing deal for a heck of a player now??? :)

F.Michael and Hockeymom1960 like this

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I think the biggest frustration people had with flip was that he was afraid to SHOOT THE PUCK. Weiss may not look as smooth as out there but if he can get us 20-25 goal seasons as opposed to the ~15 we got with flip, I call it an upgrade.

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You're going on eight games.

Yes by those 8 games he looks no better than Emmerton. Let's hope he gets much much better as I imagined he was.

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As fans of Detroit, we've been blessed with a lot of gifted and above average centermen. Some of us oldsters remember Jimmy Carson playing on the 3rd line for the Wings and another time when Yzerman was centering a helicopter line: no wings, all centers playing out of position.

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Another bad game for him.

Seemed to lose every puck battle and had tons of turnovers.

He actually looks a lot like Cleary out there.

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how was this guy ever compared to Yzerman.. Weisserman they used to call him for what, in what sense .. he plays ABSOLUTELY NOTHING like him. just a brutal signing

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I like hating on the Wings as much as the next LGWer. But, terrible though he's been, Weiss simply needs more time. He missed most of last season due to surgery, and he's making a quantum leap from the Panthers to the Wings. And - the big thing for me - he doesn't look AT ALL like the guy he was in Florida, so I think it's pretty clear that he's uncomfortable.

I think we sort of take for granted how tough an adjustment it can be for a guy coming to the Wings from another NHL club. Most of the guys on this team, they've been playing Red Wings hockey with each other for some time now. Even Alfredsson, aside from being just an absurdly excellent hockey player, has the benefit of being able to lean on MacLean's system a bit, because there are a lot of similarities between his way and Babcock's way.

At least wait until Game 20 before you decide he's the worst player you've ever seen and that Filppula was a God among men for us. (Does no one remember how often Flip was completely invisible?)

Edited by Dabura

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He actually seems to be getting worse... he was a relatively unknown quantity because of recent injuries as it was, and so far he has been invisible at best. He is easily knocked off the puck and his moves aren't fooling anyone. $5M x 5 years... could get brutal indeed....

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i've been disappointed in weiss thus far. what tempers my expectations though is that i often ended up disappointed in flip as well. i just worry we will be saddled with his contract for several years and never able to bring in the extra pieces needed.

i'm optimistic that it is still just an adjustment period. i guess the other thing i think about is i still haven't seen a lot of line combinations that really look like they work. aside from the first line and it being carried by two of the best forwards of their generation, there just hasn't been a lot going on. as much as i hate guys like cleary or franzen for their apparent lack of effort, when it comes down to it, if we can put them in positions to excel, then its fine. unfortunately right now alfredsson is the only guy to join 13 and 40 with more than 5 points. i know 11 games is a small sample size, but its still 13% of the season. just think about how important the last few games were last year. i dont want to get to april and think back to points we missed out on in october because we only had 1 line capable of scoring goals... i should also point out that right now, 13 and 40 are the only plus forwards we have. sure +/- is everyones stat to hate on, but at the root level, it means that none of our other lines are scoring more than they are giving up. thats a scarey thought.

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Coming off a major surgery, and from a team that has never played with structure, I'm willing to give him a bit more time because I harp on him. Got us a W in Carolina early, and now is in a bit of a funk. If he's still struggling by Christmas we may be in trouble, still a bit early.

F.Michael likes this

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i've been disappointed in weiss thus far. what tempers my expectations though is that i often ended up disappointed in flip as well. i just worry we will be saddled with his contract for several years and never able to bring in the extra pieces needed.

i'm optimistic that it is still just an adjustment period. i guess the other thing i think about is i still haven't seen a lot of line combinations that really look like they work. aside from the first line and it being carried by two of the best forwards of their generation, there just hasn't been a lot going on. as much as i hate guys like cleary or franzen for their apparent lack of effort, when it comes down to it, if we can put them in positions to excel, then its fine. unfortunately right now alfredsson is the only guy to join 13 and 40 with more than 5 points. i know 11 games is a small sample size, but its still 13% of the season. just think about how important the last few games were last year. i dont want to get to april and think back to points we missed out on in october because we only had 1 line capable of scoring goals... i should also point out that right now, 13 and 40 are the only plus forwards we have. sure +/- is everyones stat to hate on, but at the root level, it means that none of our other lines are scoring more than they are giving up. thats a scarey thought.

We're essentially a one-line team right now. Good thing we have all that depth up front!

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You can tell that he doesn't have much confidence in himself right now. He is quick to get the puck off his stick to someone else, and that lack of patience is resulting in turn-overs and low percentage opportunities.

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Another thing: he's got a couple of goals. Which is as many as Franzen has. And that's while being considerably less comfortable and confident than Franzen. So there's that.

WingsAlways likes this

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Scoring is an issue, but it probably has something to do with the constant line juggling. I wish Weiss were doing better, but I'll cut him some slack because it's still probably an adjustment period. I don't think we should panic and sell the farm for a new player to create offense. After all, we brought two in and still have the same problem we had last year, only magnified. The problem must be institutional, something Babcock or one of his assistants is doing.

Anyway, Weiss will warm up eventually, and he's still not worse than Flip would have been, so it's not a total loss yet.

I think Babcock really needs to give up on hoping Franzen will explode. He can still chip in goals as a center, and he plays better there. I'm not sure if Weiss would do well as a winger, or if he should be slotted down to third line center, but we always have nice things to say about Franzen at center. Maybe he should become our second-line center and Weiss slot in somewhere else.

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We're essentially a one-line team right now. Good thing we have all that depth up front!

This is what is killing us, and "one-line" is being generous at times. So far it has been Datsyuk and Zetterberg, then everyone else. Its pretty bad when Franzen ends up centering your second line seemingly just so Weiss can move down the roster without splitting up the only two guys that are doing anything. Even Alfredsson has been a disappointment save for his 7-8 assists, most of which were earned by simply being the guy to touch the puck before Pav or Z.

Weiss has been the biggest disappointment, but overall this lineup has far too many past-their-prime hold-overs and misplaced grinders. Abdelkader shouldn't be higher than the 3rd line, and as bad as Mikael "Buy me out and I'll fight it" Samuelsson is, I can't begin to imagine what makes Cleary so much better to keep him in the lineup every game. The whole roster is forced, so its no wonder we can't get a sync'd, balanced attack.

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it's what? one month out of 5 years...? i'm not worried yet.

it's gotta take some time to get used to every aspect of a system like the wings have.

and until he gets used to it, he's probably not concentrating on skill moves as much....

he's a skilled player, he'll come around.

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I think Babcock really needs to give up on hoping Franzen will explode. He can still chip in goals as a center, and he plays better there. I'm not sure if Weiss would do well as a winger, or if he should be slotted down to third line center, but we always have nice things to say about Franzen at center. Maybe he should become our second-line center and Weiss slot in somewhere else.

Franzen does look better at center, but only because it forces him to move more. Maybe that is the recipe for getting effort out of him, but its probably a wash in terms of actual scoring. In fact, at center we'll paradoxically see him become a better player (in terms of effort, visibility, complete game), but score even less (taking the role of a playmaker with no one around him to reciprocate).

I don't know how I feel about this, since he started and developed into the player he was at his peak by playing center (though doing all his scoring at wing), and currently I hate that his playing style is one that I see as an overall detriment to the team only justified by his stat-line at the end of the season. Is it better to look at a player and his stats and say "huh, I thought he was better than that" or "wow, how did that bum manage that?" (current Franzen).

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Damn I remember how rare it was to see Detroit get blown out, especially at home. Babcock has been juggling lines for a very long time now. This team is lacking a powerplay qb who can also hold the blue line without Lidstrom. Gonna be hard for new guys to get acclimated for a while. Even Tatar doesn't seem to be comfortable as well. Season is still young. I do worry about Howard. Watching him has been brutal at times. Weiss has a long way to go before we regret anything more than that 11 year Franzen contract. I think Weiss will turn things around.

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Franzen does look better at center, but only because it forces him to move more. Maybe that is the recipe for getting effort out of him, but its probably a wash in terms of actual scoring. In fact, at center we'll paradoxically see him become a better player (in terms of effort, visibility, complete game), but score even less (taking the role of a playmaker with no one around him to reciprocate).

Well, he did state that he's not a goal scorer..

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As far as Franzen goes, I'd rather have him do everything right but score a few less goals. His goal scoring isn't a huge asset. They come in clumps, and lately not even then. So his goals really only seem to affect a small number of games. I'd rather we get an all-around player who hustles and makes us stronger. So I'd be good with him at center producing fewer goals.

But Weiss...I don't know, maybe playing on the wing will let him open up a bit.

b.shanafan14 likes this

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During last night's telecast, Mickey stated that because Weiss is coming off injuries and because he's coming from a team with relatively no system, he believes Weiss won't begin to hit his stride until about the 20 game mark. Because Mickey has played professional hockey and therefore knows how hard it is to go from team to team, system to system, and bounce back from injury, I'm going to go with his assessment.

That said, Weiss hasn't lived up to expectations. Which is hard for me to say because I lobbied hard for the guy in the offseason and was thrilled when he was signed.

haroldsnepsts and F.Michael like this

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