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GDT
11/19 GDT: Predators 2 at Red Wings 0

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Here's a post I read on HF about the situation (specifically how bad Quincey is).

Quote

Originally Posted by Kyleftlx

There's something about the way Detroit is currently constructed, whether it's the system or it's just the level of talent on the ice... Quincey produced everywhere else except in Detroit. Weiss produced just fine in Florida. Tootoo was fantastic in Nashville. Samuelsson produced in Vancouver and Florida. Filppula and Hudler leave Detroit, and both of them have produced with new roles on new teams. What is it about Detroit that is killing production? Are these guys mis-used? Do they have a chance to really succeed here? What's the problem, exactly? Quincey may not be a great player, in fact, he may be as awful or even worse than his stats indicate, but why did Detroit acquire him with such a high draft pick if they weren't planning to play to his strengths? Why would they sign Samuelsson if they weren't planning to actually utilize Samuelsson for the two years he was signed? What was the point in bringing Tootoo here if you can't even use him correctly?

I don't know, I think there could be a problem with the current system if every single guy just about that the team brings in just can't seem to actually help the team. These are all guys who have been able to help someone in the past, most cases even just one year previously... there's just something weird about the situation in Detroit.

It's a good point, but I'm not smart enough to know if it's actually valid.

This post struck fear into me. Dear God....Why does that MAKE SO MUCH SENSE?!!?

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I love Babs. But it really seems like he's losing the locker room, along with his mind. Maybe he's just been here too long. Everyone who's ever played for him and spoken about him has said he's one of those "hard" coaches. Often that kind of style only works for so long.

Him, the team, everything - it feels tired, old, stale. To put it mildly.

That's not to say I'm cool with Holland, mind you. I do think he's absolutely the main problem here. Which is tough because I also believe he is, generally, the best GM in the league.

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That's not to say I'm cool with Holland, mind you. I do think he's absolutely the main problem here. Which is tough because I also believe he is, generally, the best GM in the league.

He used to be one of the best, but now he is one of the worst. I think most of it is strictly due to loyalty and that needs to stop

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According to "The Fourth Period" the Wings have inquired about Dmitry Kulikov. Wonder what our offer was? Probably Tootoo or Eaves straight up, because anything other than our scraps would be an "overpayment" and god forbid.

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I love Babs. But it really seems like he's losing the locker room, along with his mind. Maybe he's just been here too long. Everyone who's ever played for him and spoken about him has said he's one of those "hard" coaches. Often that kind of style only works for so long.

Him, the team, everything - it feels tired, old, stale. To put it mildly.

This is Babcock's 9th year coaching the Wings, and I think his style has absolutely worn out its welcome to the organization. It's not necessarily a good thing to keep the same coach for so long, even if he is a good one. Hell, even Bowman never stuck around longer than 9 years with any one of the 5 teams he coached. But of course he's an exception anyway since he's arguably the best coach of all time in any major sport, but I digress...

A lot of the blame, like many are saying, falls on Holland. He is loyal to a fault and it has blinded him into making bad decisions, too many to list right now.

A lot of people are saying trade the dead weight, but what GM in their right mind would be willing to acquire the likes of Cleary, Sammy, Quincey, etc.? I think we are stuck with pretty much all of them barring injury and yet I still have faint hope they'll figure out a way to get their act together(getting healthy would help), but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if we struggle mightily to make the playoffs this year, and could very well miss out. But that may be what it takes to actually make some positive changes. The next 20 or so games should really tell us if we've got a chance to make some noise this year

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Holland used to be the best GM in hockey. Stan Bowman and Peter Chiarelli are dueling for that spot now. Holland has fallen FAR from where he used to be. He continues to hang onto useless old farts like Cleary and Samuelsson for absolutely no reason. He lied every time he said we we're going to "go with the kids" last season. He has stocked this team with plugs that wouldn't make ANY other NHL roster. Most of our bottom-6 wouldn't even get on the ice most other places. He has failed miserably for several seasons now. Weiss and Alfredsson were solid signings, but those do not excuse his consistent run of utter stupidity for the past several years.

The worst part about all of this? Both he and Babcock are going nowhere because of the same poisonous loyalty that haunts this roster currently. This team is a complete failure in everything they set out to do. They cannot score, make many stupid defensive mistakes, and have shoddy goaltending.

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I do believe complacency is really hurting this organization and has for years. Losing streaks bring out the worst of everyone involved (Holland and Babcock), but I do think this ugly stretch of play exposes a larger issue.

I'm not advocating for one or both to lose their jobs. However, it should push them to reexamine the methods of building and utilizing a roster. It shouldn't have taken this for Holland to see the flaws and critical mistakes he has made in the past two years alone, though.

I just don't know what this team's identity is yet again. Are we retooling on the fly, while still trying to seriously contend? Are we all-in for a championship? Clearly embracing youth only occurs when hands are forced. It's like the Red Wings are boggled down in mediocrity with no clear path out.

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The Red Wings are the only team in the East that are in the top 8 without double digit wins. If that third column never existed in the NHL standings the Wings would be 9-13 right now. That's horrible. It was pretty sad that I knew this game was over once Weber scored. I really don't know what to say right now but I keep telling myself it's early. Dekeyser going down is going to hurt bigtime. Oh well, as fans we can't do s*** but sit and watch and hope for a turn around. Go Wings!

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Holland used to be the best GM in hockey. Stan Bowman and Peter Chiarelli are dueling for that spot now. Holland has fallen FAR from where he used to be. He continues to hang onto useless old farts like Cleary and Samuelsson for absolutely no reason. He lied every time he said we we're going to "go with the kids" last season. He has stocked this team with plugs that wouldn't make ANY other NHL roster. Most of our bottom-6 wouldn't even get on the ice most other places. He has failed miserably for several seasons now. Weiss and Alfredsson were solid signings, but those do not excuse his consistent run of utter stupidity for the past several years.

The worst part about all of this? Both he and Babcock are going nowhere because of the same poisonous loyalty that haunts this roster currently. This team is a complete failure in everything they set out to do. They cannot score, make many stupid defensive mistakes, and have shoddy goaltending.

I agree with all of this.

I think these days I just call him the best GM in the league out of sheer force of habit. And even that - the fact that it's a force of habit - is probably mostly due to me protecting myself from Holland loyalists who will cut you down for even farting in Ken's general direction.

But, actually, the loyalists do seem quieter these days, versus, say, a couple seasons ago.

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well.. i don't know about anyone else, but i thought it was a very boring game.

So boring i nearly fell asleep.

Just seemed like there was no emotion at all in the game by the wings.

And it is so true with what that poster said (i'm even too tired to go back and check)
but he/she said if you are a starting goalie and want to be made to look good, just play at the Joe".
It is so true lol.

Whomever said that i give you 1000 cool points. :):punk:

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Most of our bottom-6 wouldn't even get on the ice most other places.

sad thing is this isn't even hyperbole. Of all the guys we would realistically waive, eaves and tootoo were the two that would most likely have been claimed off waivers.

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I think back to when Fedorov went to Anaheim and Babcock finally called back to Detroit and said "What do I have to do to get this guy to score?"

When he first arrived in Detroit all he basically had to do was to manage the talent, not really coach them.

This team is begging for some actual coaching. And now that we actually have a team that needs coaching, he is distracted by Team Canadas duties.

Edited by T.Low

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I am not even mad that we continue to lose. I am mad that we continue to lose because Ken Holland and Mike Babcock willingly do not ice our best team. It is ridiculous that Cleary is still playing on this team and the best part is, Babcock promoted him to the top line. Then, right away on that line, Cleary takes a retarded penatly. BUT then in the last minute, Babcock has CLEARY on the ice?!?!?!? I am sorry but I am really starting to think that Babcock needs to go, I mean this is just ridiculous.

And Holland is at blame to for re-signing Cleary and willingly playing Nyquist, who was one of our BEST PLAYOFFS performers last year, play in the minors. This team needs goals; secondary scoring. Yes getting Alfie and Weiss (I hope Weiss) back will help, but Nyquist would add so much more to this team then Cleary and Sammy.

It is sickening to watch this I just cannot fathom why Babcock and Holland are not playing their best possible team.

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bunch of robots on the ice zero emotion hate seeing that in a sports team, just going though the motions to get the game over.

zzzz goodnite

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I agree with all of this.

I think these days I just call him the best GM in the league out of sheer force of habit. And even that - the fact that it's a force of habit - is probably mostly due to me protecting myself from Holland loyalists who will cut you down for even farting in Ken's general direction.

But, actually, the loyalists do seem quieter these days, versus, say, a couple seasons ago.

2008-2009 (our last remotely worthwhile season) is becoming longer and longer ago. As a result, the Holland apologists have gotten quieter and quieter. His recent run of utter foolishness has helped that along, as well. He has horribly...and I mean HORRIBLY...mismanaged this team. Last offseason's general positive effort cannot offset the monkeyshines of recent years. Too many mistakes all over the organization right now. No one is doing anything right in any facet of NHL hockey. Playing the game, coaching the game, managing the team, it's all bad. Edited by DatsyukToZetterberg
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Unlikely. I've been watching some clips from the pre-2011 years, and there really is no comparison. These guys just don't stack up. There is no dynamism on this roster.

But I think it's fair to blame Holland for some bad contracts, it's Babcock's line management and game time decisions that are hurting us most now.

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God we're bad right now. Got to get our sh*t together ... terrible hockey to watch.

I'm telling ya ... going to be another must win for the last 8 games just to make it to 8th spot ... then Holland and Babs' recipe for success: will hand the team over to the youngens and see how far they can go. 1 round, 2 if we're lucky.

Ground Hog Day ... Bill Murphy here we go again.

Edited by RedWingsRox

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But, actually, the loyalists do seem quieter these days, versus, say, a couple seasons ago.

We're quieter because it's becoming increasingly hard to defend some of his actions recently.

As I said in another thread recently, not everything he does is totally wrong - his tactic of trading down our 1st rounder has reaped a bounty of quality prospects.

But unquestionably, he has become overly loyal, unwilling to cut ties with players, unwilling to use our big pool of prospects to trade for roster players, but also unwilling to promote those prospects to the big club, coupled with terrible roster management.

Nyquist and Tatar need to be on this team full time - not just because they're good enough, but so that they go from being inexperienced youngsters, to established pros. So that next season they've both got 100+ NHL games under their belt when we have to try and work in Almquist and Ferraro and Sheahan who are out of options, and Jurco and Mantha and Sproul and Oullet are all going to be knocking on the door.

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I am not even mad that we continue to lose. I am mad that we continue to lose because Ken Holland and Mike Babcock willingly do not ice our best team. It is ridiculous that Cleary is still playing on this team and the best part is, Babcock promoted him to the top line. Then, right away on that line, Cleary takes a retarded penatly. BUT then in the last minute, Babcock has CLEARY on the ice?!?!?!? I am sorry but I am really starting to think that Babcock needs to go, I mean this is just ridiculous.

And Holland is at blame to for re-signing Cleary and willingly playing Nyquist, who was one of our BEST PLAYOFFS performers last year, play in the minors. This team needs goals; secondary scoring. Yes getting Alfie and Weiss (I hope Weiss) back will help, but Nyquist would add so much more to this team then Cleary and Sammy.

It is sickening to watch this I just cannot fathom why Babcock and Holland are not playing their best possible team.

I pretty much lost all faith in Babs when he put Cleary on the ice with less than a minute left in the game. I'm recording Thursday's night game but I'm watching the NFL game live instead. Something is "clearly" messed up in management and coaching and I just can't waste my time watching this team anymore as long as Cleary and Sammy get any ice time.

Edited by Vladiator
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