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Guest mjtm77

The NHL reffing affecting the game

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Refereeing has been bad since the lock out, but blaming our bad defense on the refs is a poor excuse. I don't delude myself into believing that the refs will suddenly become good, we should resign our self's to the fact that this is the way games are going to be refereed and hope that when the other team gets a bad call against them that we can capitalize on it.

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Refereeing has been bad since the lock out, but blaming our bad defense on the refs is a poor excuse. I don't delude myself into believing that the refs will suddenly become good, we should resign our self's to the fact that this is the way games are going to be refereed and hope that when the other team gets a bad call against them that we can capitalize on it.

Yeah, like say, oh, the puck going out of play and hitting the netting and going off the back of the goalie and tying the game in the last minute. But damn, why can't stuff like that ever happen to the Wings?!?! They clearly hate the Wings!

T.Low likes this

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Its Hockey, calls get missed and bad calls do happen, end of story.

Remember the LA game when the puck off the netting saved our sorry behinds, I don't remember a anybody starting a thread complaining about the refs affecting the outcome of the game (by missing an obvious puck in the netting). Sure the trip (if you can call it a trip) was a weak call but you have to remember those weak calls and non calls (puck off the netting) work both ways. Don't be thrilled about one of them and then complain about the next, In the end they all even each other out, The two points from the LA game we should have never gotten far out weighs the one point we lost today. Refs can't see everything and do make mistakes, just be glad the NHL doesn't employ the NFL refs.

Sure the refs suck, they do in every sport, but what can you really do about it? There will always be human error.

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I don't think tonight's call was the result of institutional bias. I do think it reflects an increasing problem with inconsistency in the league that has come with old refs struggling with the speed of the game and rule changes, which has lead to a lot of guessing on calls. Guessing increases the impact of personal bias or external pressure, but is no dishonest as such. But the league is determined to officiate the game in a way that is outdated and its leading to an increasing number of mistakes year on year.

Its amazing how a league with transparency and accountability in its supplimentary discipline can be so lacking in it for vast swathes of its on ice officiating, including the particularly random non-reviewable calls.

I know I'm an ignorant brit,but after 20 years of watching the NHL I'm far more confused about what is penalised and what is not than ever before. And for me its starting to impact directly on my ability to enjoy the sport


And guess what...much as my bias enjoyed the LA cock-up as payback for the SJ one a few years back, that kind of situation is embarrassing. It makes the NHL look amateur. but then the limitations on video reviews are archaic and non-sensical. I think what is most frustrating is not the calls like today, but the impression that as the standard of officiating declines as the job becomes fundamentally more difficult, the NHL seems reluctant to give its officials the help they need. Its a similar situation in Soccer, but at least we can be sure that's down to FIFA/UEFA corruption cover-ups....

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Ever since the second ref was added, the overall product of reffing has gone down hill. Go back to one ref, let him be in complete control. Also will open up more ice for the players.

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There's obviously less penalties, however that's irrelevant to me seeing as how the real issue is inconsistency, accuracy, and timing which remains just as bad if not worse. Situational calls are so obvious it's painful. Nice condescension though.

You're right, that was pretty condescending. I apologize to everyone. I get a little frustrated with referee blaming, but that's not an excuse to be a d*ck. My bad.

rick zombo and Echolalia like this

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Lol it's all good, I was pretty pissed after game myself. It's obviously not all refs fault, a 3 goal first is pretty bad itself. But when you're a struggling team the refs become a much bigger factor.

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Aside from the call itself, I did not like how the official making the call was the one positioned down low on the goal line on the other side of the ice while the one positioned on the same side of the ice looking directly at the "infraction" did not have his arm up at all

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It's easy for us to scream about a missed call when we see it from a good angle and on slo-mo replay. The refs are at ice level trying to watch 10 guys at full speed while skating themselves and trying to keep thmselves in the right position to not only see the play, but to stay the hell out of the way of the play. I've officiated a few rec leagues. It's the hardest things I've ever done in sports.

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Yeah, like say, oh, the puck going out of play and hitting the netting and going off the back of the goalie and tying the game in the last minute. But damn, why can't stuff like that ever happen to the Wings?!?! They clearly hate the Wings!

Dude, what the hell are you talking about? You clearly misunderstood what I wrote, you should re-read it. But In case you still don't get it let me spell it out for you clearly. What I meant was that officiating has been bad for a long time and we as fans should just get used to it and not complain about every single call. And since the refs are usually bad for both sides the Wings should try and take advantage when the refs blow a call in their favor.

Now I realize the first couple sentences make me sound like a sarcastic prick but I'm just answering your misplaced sarcasm with some of my own. Sorry.

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Its Hockey, calls get missed and bad calls do happen, end of story.

Remember the LA game when the puck off the netting saved our sorry behinds, I don't remember a anybody starting a thread complaining about the refs affecting the outcome of the game (by missing an obvious puck in the netting). Sure the trip (if you can call it a trip) was a weak call but you have to remember those weak calls and non calls (puck off the netting) work both ways. Don't be thrilled about one of them and then complain about the next, In the end they all even each other out, The two points from the LA game we should have never gotten far out weighs the one point we lost today. Refs can't see everything and do make mistakes, just be glad the NHL doesn't employ the NFL refs.

Sure the refs suck, they do in every sport, but what can you really do about it? There will always be human error.

A lot of us made fun of the ref for that blunder too. But we did it in the GDT. Reffing in the NHL is garbage, but whatcha fooa do? Not like I'm gonna watch any other sport the way I watch hockey. Get pissed in the moment and then let it go and get ready for the next game

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You're right, that was pretty condescending. I apologize to everyone. I get a little frustrated with referee blaming, but that's not an excuse to be a d*ck. My bad.

This is off-topic but I want to point out how awesome this response is. Instead of getting all internet-tough by slinging remarks back and forth, you cordially apologize and move on. The internet needs more classy folks like you.

To contribute to the topic at hand: I don't think refs have a bias (or try to, at least) for or against any team. Sometimes they get the right calls, and sometimes they don't. It usually balances out in the end.

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Sports in general are in the dark ages when it comes to using technology to streamline, verify, and interpret live play. You can easily come up with 5 things the NHL could be using already in a couple minutes.

That said, the NHL does a better job of implementing new technologies than most leagues. Most of the time sports takes the cautious option and does nothing or waits for someone else to do it first. The NHL is already using centralized review (with on ice primary decision taking into account when inconclusive) and most other sports are using TVs in the same stadium on a closed circuit network.

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Rugby League and Rugby Union are probably one of the leaders in video technology, not afraid of it at all, and openly embrace it. They even have the refs mic'd up so you can hear the conversations between the ref and the video judge, and even the ref and the players. They even leave the mic open during play so you can hear them communicating with the players "stay on your feet number 8!", "no hands white!" etc etc.

And since Rugby enforces respect for the refs, you don't get the mic picking up on them swearing when they're saying "yes sir, no sir" to the refs.

Yes, the players in rugby really do call the ref "sir" :)

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I'm a bit on the fence so stick with me here for a moment.

I'm not defending the Refs, nor am I saying bad calls never happen. It is true it happens in all sports, It's bad in Baseball, it's bad in the NFL and they do have video replay which they review during challenges and still at times get it wrong.

I don't know how often I am watching a game and I say to myself after a penalty is called "I need to see the replay, I didn't catch what happened." That's because one pair of human eyes can't watch what all 10 skaters are doing at one time on the ice. I understand it is their job, I get this is what they are paid to do, but until there are 6+ refs on the ice to catch everything, a ton of delays from conferences and discussions, or excessive video replays, i'll take the human error over what it could come down to which is a painstaking process to determine the validity of a minor penalty.

They need to make snap decisions based on what they see at that time. The trip in overtime wasn't a great call, but it wasn't an awful call either. In the moment, the angle the ref is standing, and what the infraction appeared to be, you cannot fault the ref. There is such a fine line of determining right in that minute if the blade of the stick caught the skate or the skate caught the stick. Either way I doubt anyone here watching the game was 100% confident during live action as it happened before the replay was shown with absolute certainty it was or was not a penalty.

This is the reality of sports, and being a sports fan. I don't want video review after every infraction. I don't want computers or technology determining what is and is not a penalty. I don't want to sit in front of the television for 10-15 minutes, have them cut to commercial break just to return to determine if a penalty is a penalty or not. That is a ridiculous concept coming from a hockey fan and a sports fan in general, it would slow the pace of the game, and just cause further drama and annoyance.

It was one call in overtime in 1 of 82 regular season games. The refs aren't out to get the Red Wings, it's our viewpoint as fans to defend every action of our players at all times, more times than not because of our bias we won't agree with calls.

So what can be done about the refs? As far as i'm concerned the system as it sits is fine. You take the good with the bad, sometimes it goes our way, sometimes it doesn't. This is how sports have always been and will continue to be.

kipwinger and Dabura like this

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It's not the number of calls the refs make it's the timing of them. I believe that they do try and control the outcome to a certain extent. Of course they can't make a team win or lose but they can influence it to a certain degree. That's my beef.

esteef likes this

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It's not the number of calls the refs make it's the timing of them. I believe that they do try and control the outcome to a certain extent. Of course they can't make a team win or lose but they can influence it to a certain degree. That's my beef.

If you don't make a call you are influencing the game as well. I think many fans don't consider that. Also, even a mediocre PK has a 70% chance of killing a penalty. So it doesn't necessarily have to be the deciding factor in a game. The Wings made it one by not executing on 3 PP's. It was their bad, not the officials.

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The problem is, and always has been, when the playoffs start those kinds of calls that refs "have to make" go out the window. You think Ovi gets that call in game seven of a playoff series? Of course not, so why call it now?

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If you don't make a call you are influencing the game as well. I think many fans don't consider that. Also, even a mediocre PK has a 70% chance of killing a penalty. So it doesn't necessarily have to be the deciding factor in a game. The Wings made it one by not executing on 3 PP's. It was their bad, not the officials.

The Wings were 2/3 on the PP, the fact they didn't kill their penalties is why they lost. Washington was 3 for 6. That last call was brutal, and I think OT penalties should be limited only to automatic calls like slashing or delay of game, with few exceptions. The way Washington was flopping all over the place is where my issue lies, the refs call what they see and more and more players and diving and flopping to the ice so they get the call. I've also seen some players dive into the boards for the sake of getting the call. It sickens me, and I can't blame the refs, it's the players finding every tiny advantage they can get. If Refs started to catch on, they would be calling more dives and hopefully that fixes the issue.

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The Wings were 2/3 on the PP, the fact they didn't kill their penalties is why they lost. Washington was 3 for 6. That last call was brutal, and I think OT penalties should be limited only to automatic calls like slashing or delay of game, with few exceptions. The way Washington was flopping all over the place is where my issue lies, the refs call what they see and more and more players and diving and flopping to the ice so they get the call. I've also seen some players dive into the boards for the sake of getting the call. It sickens me, and I can't blame the refs, it's the players finding every tiny advantage they can get. If Refs started to catch on, they would be calling more dives and hopefully that fixes the issue.

So you want a different set of rules. Which will benefit the teams that are more likely to throw cheap shots. IMO, that attitude is stupid. The rules are the rules. If something is a call in the first 2 minutes, it should be a call in the last 2 minutes. Either way the ref's decision affects the game. If he makes the call, it benefits the team that should get a PP. If he lets it go, it gives the team that committed the penalty an advantage where the other team was probably called for a similar penalty and had to kill a PP earlier in the game. As a player I want consistency above all. If you're going to call everything. Fine, I'll know that. If you're going to let things go, fine, I'll adjust my game accordingly. But if you're going to let 6 blatant trips go and then call someone for tripping when a guy falls on his own, that's when I get pissed.

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Putting our team out the window and talking about the NHL in general, the reffing is bad and I dunno why. No days we and the players don't know what is a penalty. Sometimes they call it and sometimes they don't. It's getting a little out of hand.

Also the refs do try to influence the game by giving late power plays to teams at home that are trailing. It always happens. (Micky called it two games ago) There is no denying that the reffing is horrible.

Do u guys think the game is too fast? Is it a higher power in control? Do the refs not get in trouble? Why is our officiating so bad. In the IIHF, rugby and I'm sure other sports the reffing is almost perfect

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STRICTLY OPINION:

The NFL is looking to make changes in the way it is officiated, the NBA(even without scandals included) has been out of whack for a while and MLB is straight up crazy with Ref/umpire Bias.

The NHL is no different, in the past 20 years the 4 major sports in America have increased in size, speed, skill, intelligence and equipment (lighter/faster and bigger/safer) the Refs have for the most part remained the same. Think how old the NBA and MLB officials are and how many have been there for 20+ years.

I use the NBA as a great analogy for this, look at the refs, how many are over 6 feet tall, yet how many NBA players are under 6 feet tall. They are outclassed, simply put.

The only people who can keep up to the speed, size and skill of the game, are playing the game, they can not officiate themselves, the game is too fast, too big for the officials.

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If you don't make a call you are influencing the game as well. I think many fans don't consider that. Also, even a mediocre PK has a 70% chance of killing a penalty. So it doesn't necessarily have to be the deciding factor in a game. The Wings made it one by not executing on 3 PP's. It was their bad, not the officials.

I'm not talking about the Wings specifically, but the league as a whole.

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Reffing in today's game was pretty awful. I think it's time for a change.

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