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DatsyukianDekes

Lightning sign GM Yzerman to contract extension

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Move up to what? Ownership?

Moving up would be, the WIngs creating a President position above the GM and move Holland up. This has been a popular move by many sports franchises to promote long time team GM's and get new breath into an organization.

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Moving up would be, the WIngs creating a President position above the GM and move Holland up. This has been a popular move by many sports franchises to promote long time team GM's and get new breath into an organization.

Devellano essentially did that and already occupies that position. He is around 70 though and I could see Holland eventually take his position.

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Devellano essentially did that and already occupies that position. He is around 70 though and I could see Holland eventually take his position.

Yeah, that would work. I don't want to see Devellano leave, but if he wants to semi-retire he could always become a special adviser like Scotty Bowman.

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Successfully help build your organization to the very pinnacle of your industry and then keep it there for 22 years and you might.

He's only been GM for the last 15 years or so, not the last 22.

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What about the last few years? Don't count or matter?

Personally I think in a few years when Nyquist and Tatar are carrying the team offensively, with a couple of Dekeyser, Smith, Sproul, Ouellet, Marchenko or Backman carrying the defensive load. We'll be looking at these last few years in a much more positive light than we are right now.

Teams like Edmonton are insanely jealous of how we've managed to rebuild on the fly.

He's made some bad signings and a couple of questionable trades, but what GM hasn't? What he'll be evaluated on is how well the organization transitions from the Euro Twins era into whatever the next generation of our team is.

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Stevie Y has won back to back gold medals with Canada didn't shy away from tough decisions even regarding the feelings of a little midget. Rebuilt Tampa Bay and their ahl club and drafted gems like Palat, Hedman and now Drouin.

Yes the Wings are still finding gems but not at the same rate they used to do. In terms of Nyquist a lot of credit has to go again to Hakan Anderson he just finds Swedish jewels amazing.

So to me y has shown enough skills

Edited by frankgrimes

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What about the last few years? Don't count or matter?

What about the last few years for Tampa Bay?

Half this board wants Kenny crucified because we've declined to borderline playoff team. Yzerman started with a team that finished 7th overall (only 1 point less than Detroit that year) and went to the conference finals, dropped to 20th overall and out of the playoffs the next year, 28th overall and fighting for the 1st pick last year, and now rebounded to a similar spot as us and still worse than when he started. Board went ape nuts when we traded a kid who had never played in the NHL, I can't even imagine the hell that would have rained down had Kenny traded Datsyuk for Callahan, much less been rumored to be the reason for Datsyuk demanding a trade.

If what's happened in TB under Stevie had happened here under Kenny, I'm sure someone here would already have a time machine built and Kenny's mom would be in big trouble...

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Stevie Y has won back to back gold medals with Canada didn't shy away from tough decisions even regarding the feelings of a little midget. Rebuilt Tampa Bay and their ahl club and drafted gems like Palat, Hedman and now Drouin. Yes the Wings are still finding gems but not at the same rate they used to do. In terms of Nyquist a lot of credit has to go again to Hakan Anderson he just finds Swedish jewels amazing. So to me y has shown enough skills

You can't have it both ways, if you're going to give Yzerman the credit for his draft choices then you have to give credit to Holland the credit for the Wings. Conversely, If you're going to give all the draft credit to Hakan Andersson then the credit for the Lightnings impressive prospect pool should go to their scouting staff.

As far as Team Canada is concerned, Steve was the executive director, but he was only one of MANY people making the decisions regarding the roster. Included in the group choosing the team was Bob Nicholson, Brad Pascall, Doug Armstrong, Peter Chiarelli, Ken Holland, and Kevin Lowe.

Yzerman has become a very good GM and definitely deserves a ton of respect for what he's done with the Lightning, but Ken Holland is a surefire first ballot Hall of Fame GM, who is the man who taught Yzerman most of what he knows about running a franchise.

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You can't have it both ways, if you're going to give Yzerman the credit for his draft choices then you have to give credit to Holland the credit for the Wings. Conversely, If you're going to give all the draft credit to Hakan Andersson then the credit for the Lightnings impressive prospect pool should go to their scouting staff.

As far as Team Canada is concerned, Steve was the executive director, but he was only one of MANY people making the decisions regarding the roster. Included in the group choosing the team was Bob Nicholson, Brad Pascall, Doug Armstrong, Peter Chiarelli, Ken Holland, and Kevin Lowe.

Yzerman has become a very good GM and definitely deserves a ton of respect for what he's done with the Lightning, but Ken Holland is a surefire first ballot Hall of Fame GM, who is the man who taught Yzerman most of what he knows about running a franchise.

And Scotty Bowman taught Holland how to run a franchise so what ? Wanting Y running the franchise is NOTHING against Holland. I really don't understand why some people are so surprised about a simple fact, wanting The Captain back is just a usual thing. Just ask the Avalanche how happy they are with the job Sakic has been doing.

Yzerman had to revamp the whole organization starting with the AHL, he was the one who fired scouts and hired better ones he was the one who got Vinnik's ok to spent more for better scouts and so on...he had to deal with a lot more troubles than Holland and that's a fact. Yeah team Canada had a huge braintrust but at the end of the day Stevie could have overruled all of them he didn't and the results are speaking for themselves a superb performance and one of the best Canadian teams ever with a stunning result.

Yes, Holland is a surefire HHOF GM and one of the best ever but IF Chiarelli is not available my pick would be Yzerman now with the 4 year contract extension he won't be able to come here so we all better hope Holland gets creative with the CBA again and is making use of an almost blank Ilitch check in order to get this team back to where it needs to be = on TOP of the NHL = players shouldn't have to think twice about coming here, they should WANT to come here and getting paid whatever they deserve in order to ice a team like 2002 again.

Edited by frankgrimes

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And Scotty Bowman taught Holland how to run a franchise so what ? Wanting Y running the franchise is NOTHING against Holland. I really don't understand why some people are so surprised about a simple fact, wanting The Captain back is just a usual thing. Just ask the Avalanche how happy they are with the job Sakic has been doing.

Yzerman had to revamp the whole organization starting with the AHL, he was the one who fired scouts and hired better ones he was the one who got Vinnik's ok to spent more for better scouts and so on...he had to deal with a lot more troubles than Holland and that's a fact. Yeah team Canada had a huge braintrust but at the end of the day Stevie could have overruled all of them he didn't and the results are speaking for themselves a superb performance and one of the best Canadian teams ever with a stunning result.

Yes, Holland is a surefire HHOF GM and one of the best ever but IF Chiarelli is not available my pick would be Yzerman now with the 4 year contract extension he won't be able to come here so we all better hope Holland gets creative with the CBA again and is making use of an almost blank Ilitch check in order to get this team back to where it needs to be = on TOP of the NHL = players shouldn't have to think twice about coming here, they should WANT to come here and getting paid whatever they deserve in order to ice a team like 2002 again.

Scotty Bowman didn't teach Holland or anyone else for that matter a thing about being a GM. He is the greatest coach in the history of the sport but as a GM he was definitely nothing special.

You're also misinformed about how much Yzerman changed in Tampa. Murray their director of Amateur Scouting who runs their entire scouting system and their drafts was already in place before Yzerman ever arrived, as was most of the rest of the scouting team in Tampa, including their European scouts and their QMJHL scout who were responsible for scouting Palat, Gudas, Kucherov, Vasilievski and Drouin.

Hedman was also scouted by their European scout, and was actually drafted before Yzerman got to Tampa.

I completely understand the sentimental reason to want him back...he was my favorite player, but he's not better than the GM we already have. Yzerman has made some great moves in Tampa, hiring Cooper to coach first their AHL team and now the big club was a great one, as was the St. Louis trade and getting Bishop. Still though his team isn't even doing as well as it was when he first took over. He's not going to turn the team into the 2002 Red Wings again, the salary cap has made that impossible. No GM is going to be able to duplicate that kind of team as long as it exists.

Their prospect pool is deep, but so is ours and Holland and company have stocked ours without getting a blue chip player in the top 3 like Drouin.

I do agree on Chiarelli though, if we were to replace Holland he's the only guy I think could come close to filling his shoes.

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Enough crying about the Jarnkrok trade. There's no guarantee that he would have come in and scored points at the rate he was/is doing it in Nashville. Different systems, different situations. On that note, congrats to Yzerman. He needs a few more years to allow his moves and picks to pan out in Tampa and to gain more experience at his position.

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After the Legwand deal Holland needs to be canned, but I guess the dream of Stevie coming to replace him is a pipe dream now.

FYI since joining the Wings

Legwand: .56 ppg

Jarnkrok .75 ppg

Hey,we needed him here in Nashville more than in Detroit. He fits in perfect here ;-) on topic, this really does suck, i was really hoping Stevey Y would be our gm in a few years, maybe even next year :-( I still think he'll be back one day, just not as soon as I'd of liked him to be. Must trust in Kenny for a bit longer I guess

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For a GM that just lost two franchise players in a very short period of time (through no fault of his own), Yzerman is doing pretty great. I know what you're saying, but I think why people here like him so much is that he has the balls to make big moves and shake things up to improve the team. And those moves are working. And the staff responsible for our incredible drafting goes way way deeper than just Ken Holland.

QFT, well said...

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WOW. JUST WOW. Still so many people butt-hurt about the Legwand trade? Y'know what? Holland should have just dressed Jarnkrok as our #1-4 centers and we'd probably be at 110 pts and first place in our division. Getting really sick of hearing all of the crying about Legwand and Holland as a bad GM. Try to take your fingers off the keys for a sec and realize that it needed to be done and, realistically, that we might not be sitting where we are right now if it wasn't for Legwand being brought in.

Just my 2 cents. You can't drink that milk anymore, stop f'in crying over it.

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WOW. JUST WOW. Still so many people butt-hurt about the Legwand trade? Y'know what? Holland should have just dressed Jarnkrok as our #1-4 centers and we'd probably be at 110 pts and first place in our division. Getting really sick of hearing all of the crying about Legwand and Holland as a bad GM. Try to take your fingers off the keys for a sec and realize that it needed to be done and, realistically, that we might not be sitting where we are right now if it wasn't for Legwand being brought in.

Just my 2 cents. You can't drink that milk anymore, stop f'in crying over it.

How about not reading it then if it annoys you so much ?

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Kind of hard when it pops up in every other thread, and in non-related threads.

But touche. Ya got me. I will turn my "monotony" and "kicking a dead horse" filters on so that I can avoid mix-ups like this is the future.

That being said, Yzerman deserves this kind of success after everything he accomplished throughout his career, and I am happy to see that he has a found a home that appreciates him as much as we all did. It is, indeed, sad to see him wearing any colors besides the red and white, but in a way I just feel lucky to have watched him growing into the great captain that he was here in Detroit. We had him in our family for a looong time. At this point, he has earned it!

Edited by Shutemdown

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What about the last few years? Don't count or matter?

Yeah because making the playoffs is horrible.

He's only been GM for the last 15 years or so, not the last 22.

I think that would fall under the "successfully help build your organization to the pinnacle of your industry" part. He was the head of scouting before he was the GM. Given how good our scouting was during his tenure (Fedorov, Lidstrom, Osgood, McCarty, Konstantinov, etc. etc. etc.) I'd say his work qualifies as "helping build the organization".

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And Scotty Bowman taught Holland how to run a franchise so what ? Wanting Y running the franchise is NOTHING against Holland. I really don't understand why some people are so surprised about a simple fact, wanting The Captain back is just a usual thing. Just ask the Avalanche how happy they are with the job Sakic has been doing.

Yzerman had to revamp the whole organization starting with the AHL, he was the one who fired scouts and hired better ones he was the one who got Vinnik's ok to spent more for better scouts and so on...he had to deal with a lot more troubles than Holland and that's a fact. Yeah team Canada had a huge braintrust but at the end of the day Stevie could have overruled all of them he didn't and the results are speaking for themselves a superb performance and one of the best Canadian teams ever with a stunning result.

Yes, Holland is a surefire HHOF GM and one of the best ever but IF Chiarelli is not available my pick would be Yzerman now with the 4 year contract extension he won't be able to come here so we all better hope Holland gets creative with the CBA again and is making use of an almost blank Ilitch check in order to get this team back to where it needs to be = on TOP of the NHL = players shouldn't have to think twice about coming here, they should WANT to come here and getting paid whatever they deserve in order to ice a team like 2002 again.

Dude, you're not going to see 2002 again. Anytime a GM, like Holland, gets "creative" with the CBA, like long contracts, the league puts the kabosh on it. The league wants parity. That's why we have the salary cap. With the most recent CBA, the home team has the advantage in signing their player, and as a result, fewer and fewer players are going to hit the open market. No team can really offer that much more than any other, that's why guys are choosing things like playing near home, etc.

Hate on Holland all you want, but he's been an overwhelming success. Despite very few high draft picks, he's been able to basically rebuild on the fly for a second time. The future looks incredibly bright for the Red Wings. Ask Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Washington, Buffalo, NYI etc, if they'd like to "fail" as much as the Wings have.

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Yeah because making the playoffs is horrible.

I think that would fall under the "successfully help build your organization to the pinnacle of your industry" part. He was the head of scouting before he was the GM. Given how good our scouting was during his tenure (Fedorov, Lidstrom, Osgood, McCarty, Konstantinov, etc. etc. etc.) I'd say his work qualifies as "helping build the organization".

My issue with him isn't his past. My issue is he seems to be very complacent. It happens to the best of them, but, sometimes it's best for both parties to move on.

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My issue with him isn't his past. My issue is he seems to be very complacent. It happens to the best of them, but, sometimes it's best for both parties to move on.

He's not complacent, he does lots of things to improve the team. Your problem with him is that you don't agree with those things. In the past three years he signed Alfredsson, Weiss, Gustavsson, Tootoo, and Samuelsson, and traded for Quincey and Legwand. Conservatively speaking that an acquisition of three top six forwards (Legwand, Alfie, Weiss), two bottom six forwards, and a backup goalie who's currently playing better than our starter. He also locked up Datsyuk for the remainder of his career, and signed Jimmy, Smith, and most of our young guys to cap friendly contracts.

That's a s*** ton. If you don't like it, fine, I'm not here to convince you. But don't mask your objection in this "he's complacent" language because it's demonstrably false.

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