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Richdg

Now some gritty forwards.

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Several things.

1. Gritty doesn't mean fighting. I think far to many of you re equating the 2. Eller for example was the Habs leader hitter at F.

2. True none of these guys are superstars. We can't afford a guy like Lucic or Perry. We could offer Nyquist, tatar, Smith, and our 1st and both teams would laugh and say no. We need to find the guys that have some additional upside that hasn't been fully developed yet. Greening for example has scored 17 in a season before. Could he get to 23-25 playing on a top line? Maybe. I personally believe that Martin could get 20 playing on a top line. Not to mention those guys would keep guys like Datsyuk freer by clearing out the D.

3. cap hits. You have to have some cheaper vets on a team. Guys that are role players. No team can afford to have a top 6 of Lucic, Getzlef, perry, Ovie, Crosby, and Malkin. No matter how good that top 6 would be, everyone else would have to be making the league minimum to even field a full roster. Building a line with Z-Dat-Kassian with Kass making 2.5 is the way to go. 2 expensive stars and a cheaper role player.

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I don't see them targeting players like this personally, as little as Tootoo was used along with how the Wings have drafted, I could MAYBE see them signing one and using him for 20 games or so.

With that said, from your list above, Wingels and Greening are both players I like who have some skill (Wingels more than Greening) but throw around the body. They would be good fill-ins for the bottom two lines.

Unrealistically, Hornqvist is sort of Holmstrom 2.0 and he's someone i'd welcome here. Also Backes (obviously) and Hartnell, both I feel are true "Hockey Players" and have a good balance of every skill needed to be an asset.

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Horn would be good. But Holland seems to like to overpay Nash........... But and this is important, he is also like Hommer in the fact he is limited other than in front of the net. My personnel preferences are Martin and Hanzel.


ill take mitch callahan.

Nice AHL player but he isn't even as good as Glendening. About the same size as well-a little small.

Dominator2005 likes this

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I just can't see NYI letting Martin go...

Gazdic would be nice, had a great fight with Lucic this season. He can skate, hit and fight.

Hanzal is tough to play against. Put him against Bergeron/Malkin... again, can't see Yotes letting him go.

I don't know what could be asking price for Simmonds?

Edited by Dominator2005

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I just can't see NYI letting Martin go...

Gazdic would be nice, had a great fight with Lucic this season. He can skate, hit and fight.

Hanzal is tough to play against. Put him against Bergeron/Malkin... again, can't see Yotes letting him go.

I don't know what could be asking price for Simmonds?

No team will be letting anyone go. Simmons will cost more than either hanzel or martin.

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No real sense in trading for these guys until Callahan has shown what he can do. Like he said, hes very Holmstrom like in front of the net and in style. The thing is, he can also dish out the punishment a bit to other teams instead of just taking it like Holmstrom did mostly. Callahan has the speed to get on the D on the forecheck and throws his weight around well. After this season and whats so far (only 2 games) looking like a good playoff run, he needs a chance. 30 goals in the AHL just about, tough, fast, gritty and good defensively. Hes got a lot of things the wings are missing and since hes home grown he should be given a chance

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I think bottom line gritty players are a little overrated for this team. Helm, Glendening, Miller, Abby, Callahan are all gritty enough. We need gritty top 6 forwards to absorb some of the punishment that Z and Dats take. A guy like Evander Kane or Wayne Simmonds would go a long way in terms of taking the load off of Z and Dats. Also you have to consider that Nyquist and Tatar are small guys that will take punishment too. I'd be okay with an overpayment for Kane or Simmonds because it will pay off big time for our team in the long run because we don't have any top 6 gritty players. Corey Perry is a pretty perfect example of what this team needs but he is nowhere near available.

Nev and Son of a Wing like this

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Horn would be good. But Holland seems to like to overpay Nash........... But and this is important, he is also like Hommer in the fact he is limited other than in front of the net. My personnel preferences are Martin and Hanzel.

Nice AHL player but he isn't even as good as Glendening. About the same size as well-a little small.

hes played like one game so thats impossible to know. sheahan didnt look good his first nhl games and now look at him.

I think bottom line gritty players are a little overrated for this team. Helm, Glendening, Miller, Abby, Callahan are all gritty enough. We need gritty top 6 forwards to absorb some of the punishment that Z and Dats take. A guy like Evander Kane or Wayne Simmonds would go a long way in terms of taking the load off of Z and Dats. Also you have to consider that Nyquist and Tatar are small guys that will take punishment too. I'd be okay with an overpayment for Kane or Simmonds because it will pay off big time for our team in the long run because we don't have any top 6 gritty players. Corey Perry is a pretty perfect example of what this team needs but he is nowhere near available.

id over pay for ryan callahan too. seems like a huge upgrade over abby.

Son of a Wing likes this

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Mitch Callahan. He is essentially Tomas Holmstrom but with extra fightings and yappings.

The loss of Holmstrom in his retirement is one of the most underrated losses on this team by the management staff, and one they've never sought to address. They need to. They can talk about team toughness all they want, but there's no one in the Wings who is a patch on Holmstrom except Callahan.

Just like the "we never replaced Lidstrom" because you can't just go out and replace a player of that caliber, how do you replace the best net-front player since Phil Esposito?

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I think bottom line gritty players are a little overrated for this team. Helm, Glendening, Miller, Abby, Callahan are all gritty enough. We need gritty top 6 forwards to absorb some of the punishment that Z and Dats take. A guy like Evander Kane or Wayne Simmonds would go a long way in terms of taking the load off of Z and Dats. Also you have to consider that Nyquist and Tatar are small guys that will take punishment too. I'd be okay with an overpayment for Kane or Simmonds because it will pay off big time for our team in the long run because we don't have any top 6 gritty players. Corey Perry is a pretty perfect example of what this team needs but he is nowhere near available.

Exactly. We need a guy that can play in the corners and be a puck retrieval guy for Dats and Z.

Abby is good along the boards and holds his own in the corners but just doesn't have that higher level skill to put up points on the top lines.

hes played like one game so thats impossible to know. sheahan didnt look good his first nhl games and now look at him.

id over pay for ryan callahan too. seems like a huge upgrade over abby.

That's what I was thinking. He'd be perfect for that role and with the cap space it wouldn't be too big a risk. Considering it wouldn't cost any assets.

As far as the names listed in this thread...most of the guys are bottom six forwards and that's really our last need. In fact it's a position of strength for us.

We need grit in the top six. Dats, Z, Nyquist and Tatar need some bigger guys who can actually make a play and have that "relentless digger" mentality.

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I like Mitch C, but he isn't big enough-he is smaller than Datsyuk, and only has average AHL speed. Yes he works hard-easy to cheer for guys like that, be he is a 3rd liner at best. Not to mention he is a RFA and could walk this summer. He has to clear waivers to go down and I just don't see where there is room for him baring a trade. He is to deep on the depth chart.

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I dunno.....I don't think anything will happen - it's just how Holland is.

IMHO - if the Wings want some size, and toughness - why not spend more time scouting the WHL/OHL/QMJHL?

Instead of drafting some kid in the 3rd round who's 5'10" 160 lbs soaking wet from the Czech Republic - why not take take the kid from Edmonton, Alberta who's 6'4" 215 lbs with a penchant for gritty play?

GMRwings1983 likes this

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I just wish Holland would one day realize that each year we get knocked out of the playoffs, it's not because some team has more european forwards with good speed and great skill. It's the north american guys over 6'2" that use their size and beat us in the tough areas on the ice.

We need to get some diversity on this team

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Agreed guys. Holland used to talk about needing 1 big forward per line. That was why he brought Bert back the second time. he knew what was needed, and that was while we were still a team in the west. Now in the more rugged east it might be 2 big F's per line. Yes he has started drafting bigger F's the past few years, but most of them have been Euro's: Tvardon, nestrasil, Jurco, etc..... Last year he finally grabbed mantha-more sniper than gritty and nastasiuk who is fairly gritty. But those guys are still down the road a bit.

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F Michael and Bama I sorta disagree with u. I think Holland has tried to draft a new core over the last years... Going after guys like Goose, Tatar, Pulkinen, Almqvist, ironhook, Etc. But once he got those guys he started peppering in size and grit more and more. AKA Bodin, Hudon, Callahan, McKee, Glendening, Mcnulty, Bertuzzi, Wheaton, etc. Sheehan and Jurco are bit gritty and big themselves as well. Holland knows these future Grindy types will compliment his up and coming core.

Of course we will always favor soft euros, it's where our best scouts are, but holland isn't dumb. He's not taking them only and he's taking them less now that he has a lot of them.

Agreed guys. Holland used to talk about needing 1 big forward per line. That was why he brought Bert back the second time. he knew what was needed, and that was while we were still a team in the west. Now in the more rugged east it might be 2 big F's per line. Yes he has started drafting bigger F's the past few years, but most of them have been Euro's: Tvardon, nestrasil, Jurco, etc..... Last year he finally grabbed mantha-more sniper than gritty and nastasiuk who is fairly gritty. But those guys are still down the road a bit.

Ok, completely ignore every large or gritty player He's drafted. He's done a lot more than draft those 5 in the grit and size department

Nev and wingedominance13 like this

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I dunno.....I don't think anything will happen - it's just how Holland is.

IMHO - if the Wings want some size, and toughness - why not spend more time scouting the WHL/OHL/QMJHL?

Instead of drafting some kid in the 3rd round who's 5'10" 160 lbs soaking wet from the Czech Republic - why not take take the kid from Edmonton, Alberta who's 6'4" 215 lbs with a penchant for gritty play?

2013:

ANTHONY MANTHA R CAN 6' 3" 190 QMJHL VAL D'OR

ZACH NASTASIUK R CAN 6' 1" 190 OHL OWEN SOUND

TYLER BERTUZZI L CAN 6' 0" 178 OHL GUELPH

MATTIAS JANMARK C SWE 6' 1" 189 SWEDEN AIK

DAVID POPE L CAN 6' 2" 187 BCHL WEST KELOWNA

MITCH WHEATON D CAN 6' 4" 228 WHL KELOWNA

MARC MCNULTY D CAN 6' 5" 185 WHL PRINCE GEORGE

HAMPUS MELEN R SWE 6' 2" 165 SWE JR TINGSRYD

Show me the undersized "soft euro"

Mitch Wheaton almost fits your demands almost exactly except that he's 13 pounds heavier and he's from Sherwood Park, Alberta.

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk
hooon likes this

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Number 9, you know I will take back what I said with Mantha and a few prospects the previous years. The size of the prospects do seem a little bit bigger than previous years. I guess I just wish we'd see this philosophy go over into his trading/free agency practices.

Trade for the gritty 3rd liner that will not put up but maybe 20 points in the season but will be huge contributors in the playoffs.(Bickell)

I just want more balance and to be more complete of a team. I do love where young guys are at right now as far as Sheahan, Nyquist, Jurco, etc as well as our Griffins. I just feel as though we are a little bit of time and maybe one big trade or FA signing from being cup contenders again.

Can't rely on FA and no cap these days. Have to build through draft which does make me feel good watching our griffins play.

frankgrimes and number9 like this

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Number 9, you know I will take back what I said with Mantha and a few prospects the previous years. The size of the prospects do seem a little bit bigger than previous years. I guess I just wish we'd see this philosophy go over into his trading/free agency practices.

Trade for the gritty 3rd liner that will not put up but maybe 20 points in the season but will be huge contributors in the playoffs.(Bickell)

I just want more balance and to be more complete of a team. I do love where young guys are at right now as far as Sheahan, Nyquist, Jurco, etc as well as our Griffins. I just feel as though we are a little bit of time and maybe one big trade or FA signing from being cup contenders again.

Can't rely on FA and no cap these days. Have to build through draft which does make me feel good watching our griffins play.

That's the thing. Holland has a very conservative FA and Trade philosophy... Which I personally agree with. Draft is the way to go. He's not going to get our next big piece through FA our Trade, unless a Hossa or Rafi express interest. He's going to build through our deep prospect pool Edited by number9

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I'd like if we could acquire Matt Martin. I'm not sure the Isles want to part ways with him, though.

Steve Downie is a free agent. He'd be a good physical presence for the 3rd line. He's a pain to play against and he can chip in offensively.

Ryan Callahan would be another guy I'd like to see us go after.

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I'd like if we could acquire Matt Martin. I'm not sure the Isles want to part ways with him, though.

Steve Downie is a free agent. He'd be a good physical presence for the 3rd line. He's a pain to play against and he can chip in offensively.

Ryan Callahan would be another guy I'd like to see us go after.

I wouldn't count on Callahan or Martin being anywhere near available. Downie might be, though I personally dislike him. Barely made the lineup in Philly and he of all players fits their mold. He'd be the next Tootoo here.

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I'd like if we could acquire Matt Martin. I'm not sure the Isles want to part ways with him, though.

Steve Downie is a free agent. He'd be a good physical presence for the 3rd line. He's a pain to play against and he can chip in offensively.

Ryan Callahan would be another guy I'd like to see us go after.

Callahan is who I want the most of any FA I think.

But sadly I don't think he will be here :(

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