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Regner: Next year could be Babcock's last


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#41 paulwoodsfan

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 06:26 AM

As good a job as Blashill has done with the Griffins, there is no evidence he will be a good NHL head coach. Look at Dallas Eakins -- everyone's darling a year ago coming out of the AHL, then had a lousy season were the Oilers appeared to regress. The assumption some have that Blashill is just gonna walk into Babcock's job a year from now and be as good a coach and we all live happily ever after strikes me as folly in the extreme. We have the best coach in hockey, by far IMO, and we should be trying to re-up him for several more years. The idea that his shelf life is coming to an end might have some validity, but all the roster turnover we have had and that is still coming would seem to mitigate that.



#42 kipwinger

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 08:08 AM

As good a job as Blashill has done with the Griffins, there is no evidence he will be a good NHL head coach. Look at Dallas Eakins -- everyone's darling a year ago coming out of the AHL, then had a lousy season were the Oilers appeared to regress. The assumption some have that Blashill is just gonna walk into Babcock's job a year from now and be as good a coach and we all live happily ever after strikes me as folly in the extreme. We have the best coach in hockey, by far IMO, and we should be trying to re-up him for several more years. The idea that his shelf life is coming to an end might have some validity, but all the roster turnover we have had and that is still coming would seem to mitigate that.

 

You don't think Blash has the requisite level of astuteness to ride Nyquist into the playoffs, then change up all the lines and render his offense without teeth, and then lose in five games? 

 

I hope you're right.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#43 Echolalia

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 09:09 AM

As good a job as Blashill has done with the Griffins, there is no evidence he will be a good NHL head coach. Look at Dallas Eakins -- everyone's darling a year ago coming out of the AHL, then had a lousy season were the Oilers appeared to regress. The assumption some have that Blashill is just gonna walk into Babcock's job a year from now and be as good a coach and we all live happily ever after strikes me as folly in the extreme. We have the best coach in hockey, by far IMO, and we should be trying to re-up him for several more years. The idea that his shelf life is coming to an end might have some validity, but all the roster turnover we have had and that is still coming would seem to mitigate that.


I agree with this. I hope Blashill is a solid head coach in the NHL, but we really have no clue whether he'll be phenomenal or a total bust until he's been behind the bench. What makes me optimistic is that several coaches who have worked alongside Babcock have gone on to have successful coaching gigs elsewhere, and Holland and co decided to retain Blashill, which may speak to his potential. He has also had amazing (and surprisingly immediate) success at the college level, and in the AHL. He already coaches a similar style to the Wings' system, as evidenced by how successful our call-ups have been. Everyone was expecting Nyqvist to shine, but probably not as brightly as he did. I wasn't expecting Jurco and certainly not Sheahan to steal spots this year, and Glendening also came out of nowhere. I think their success at the NHL level is partly due to how they were coached in the years leading up to this.
Anyway, I guess if and when the time comes that Babcock moves on from his current position, unless Trotz or Tippet are available, I would be comfortable taking a chance on Blashill. He's certainly done everything he can do to at least earn the opportunity to be a head coach.

#44 The Secret

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 09:27 AM

This year could be Regner's last


As good a job as Blashill has done with the Griffins, there is no evidence he will be a good NHL head coach. Look at Dallas Eakins -- everyone's darling a year ago coming out of the AHL, then had a lousy season were the Oilers appeared to regress. The assumption some have that Blashill is just gonna walk into Babcock's job a year from now and be as good a coach and we all live happily ever after strikes me as folly in the extreme. We have the best coach in hockey, by far IMO, and we should be trying to re-up him for several more years. The idea that his shelf life is coming to an end might have some validity, but all the roster turnover we have had and that is still coming would seem to mitigate that.

 

I think a few years bac k Stevie Y in Tampa had a genious coach that is now unemployed... Wasn't he the coach who had them play the rope a dope trap in that his team wouldn't leave the neutral zone and just waited for the other team? It was ridiculous



#45 kipwinger

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 09:30 AM

Is it really so hard to believe that Babs could be gone at the end of this year?  I mean, regardless of who you blame, he hasn't made it past the second round since 2009.  If the Wings totally s*** the bed in the playoffs next year wouldn't you be tempted to let Babs walk and bring in your superstar AHL coach if you were Holland?

 

Everyone keeps looking at this like it's Babs' decision and he wants to stay, but maybe it isn't.  Maybe the organization isn't too thrilled with being bounced early and might want to go a different direction.  Lord knows the coach always gets the axe before the GM.  Maybe they're waiting to see what he can do with a (hopefully) healthy roster next year before deciding to commit to him. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#46 The Secret

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 01:29 PM

Is it really so hard to believe that Babs could be gone at the end of this year?  I mean, regardless of who you blame, he hasn't made it past the second round since 2009.  If the Wings totally s*** the bed in the playoffs next year wouldn't you be tempted to let Babs walk and bring in your superstar AHL coach if you were Holland?

 

Everyone keeps looking at this like it's Babs' decision and he wants to stay, but maybe it isn't.  Maybe the organization isn't too thrilled with being bounced early and might want to go a different direction.  Lord knows the coach always gets the axe before the GM.  Maybe they're waiting to see what he can do with a (hopefully) healthy roster next year before deciding to commit to him. 

 

The guy has been dealing with enough injuries and expired players the past few seasons that even if they didn't make the play offs he still really could not have been to blame. Babcock is a wizard and has proven that many times over... if Babs decides to move it will be a sad sad day in Detroit. As sad of a day as when Scotty retired. Give Babs a healthy team (even this past years team) and we are as dangerous as the next.



#47 kipwinger

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 01:40 PM

 

The guy has been dealing with enough injuries and expired players the past few seasons that even if they didn't make the play offs he still really could not have been to blame. Babcock is a wizard and has proven that many times over... if Babs decides to move it will be a sad sad day in Detroit. As sad of a day as when Scotty retired. Give Babs a healthy team (even this past years team) and we are as dangerous as the next.

 

I don't really have any interest in bashing or defending Babs as a coach.  My feelings on the topic are well known.  My point was to suggest that it's entirely possible that Babs doesn't return next year, not because he chooses to walk away, but rather because the organization doesn't want him back.   Any professional sport is a "what have you done for me lately" sort of business.  And our team isn't competing for Cups.  So far its been easy enough to blame injuries and roster turnover for our fall from Cup contention.  But if the team struggles to make the playoffs or loses badly before the conference finals next year, and we stay largely healthy, I don't think it's unrealistic to imagine organization going in a different direction. 

 

You've got to figure they're not hanging onto Blashill just for the hell of it. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#48 paulwoodsfan

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 01:54 PM

If Babcock isn't re-signed, IMO being in tough to make the playoffs will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. The put-of-town media will ask about and report on his pending free agency at every game on the road, and it will become a massive distraction. That's what happens when the guy widely recognizes as the best in the business heads towards free agency -- and why very few top-drawer coaches in any sport have been allowed to "play out their option year." If the org does not extend him this summer, we will be in for a season of distraction and uncertainty.



#49 kipwinger

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 02:23 PM

If Babcock isn't re-signed, IMO being in tough to make the playoffs will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. The put-of-town media will ask about and report on his pending free agency at every game on the road, and it will become a massive distraction. That's what happens when the guy widely recognizes as the best in the business heads towards free agency -- and why very few top-drawer coaches in any sport have been allowed to "play out their option year." If the org does not extend him this summer, we will be in for a season of distraction and uncertainty.

 

Totally agree.  It will be a distraction.  But if he's not re-signed the culpable party is the more interesting point of information.  If he's offered a contract but doesn't balks at negotiating, then you know Babs wants out.  If he's not offered anything, you know Holland is hedging his bets...likely becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy in itself. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#50 PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 03:46 PM

 

I don't really have any interest in bashing or defending Babs as a coach.  My feelings on the topic are well known.  My point was to suggest that it's entirely possible that Babs doesn't return next year, not because he chooses to walk away, but rather because the organization doesn't want him back.   Any professional sport is a "what have you done for me lately" sort of business.  And our team isn't competing for Cups.  So far its been easy enough to blame injuries and roster turnover for our fall from Cup contention.  But if the team struggles to make the playoffs or loses badly before the conference finals next year, and we stay largely healthy, I don't think it's unrealistic to imagine organization going in a different direction. 

 

You've got to figure they're not hanging onto Blashill just for the hell of it. 

 

I think there is reason enough to keep him just in the fact that he seems to be doing a great job in helping to develop our prospects. And also the way he has implemented structure that allows call-ups to make the jump to the NHL pretty seamlessly. Without considering the future, that would be something that we wouldn't want to put in Jeopardy next year - especially when we will have important prospects in GR (Mantha? Sproul? Marchecko? Oulette?, etc) I think it was an integral part of the team's Rebuild/Transition strategy to have a strong coach in GR that has served alongside Babcock for a year. 



#51 kipwinger

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 03:53 PM

 

I think there is reason enough to keep him just in the fact that he seems to be doing a great job in helping to develop our prospects. And also the way he has implemented structure that allows call-ups to make the jump to the NHL pretty seamlessly. Without considering the future, that would be something that we wouldn't want to put in Jeopardy next year - especially when we will have important prospects in GR (Mantha? Sproul? Marchecko? Oulette?, etc) I think it was an integral part of the team's Rebuild/Transition strategy to have a strong coach in GR that has served alongside Babcock for a year. 

 

I totally agree, but when you hear KH talk about "not wanting to be a developmental team for league management" you've got to think there's more to it than just wanting to wait until after the rebuild.  Then again, that's speculation, so what do I know?  My whole point was just to say that if Babs getting extended was a done deal from both sides, then why isn't it a done deal?


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#52 The Secret

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 07:10 PM

 

I totally agree, but when you hear KH talk about "not wanting to be a developmental team for league management" you've got to think there's more to it than just wanting to wait until after the rebuild.  Then again, that's speculation, so what do I know?  My whole point was just to say that if Babs getting extended was a done deal from both sides, then why isn't it a done deal?

 

Likely because it is not an important decision for any of them at this moment. Babcock has spelled it out pretty clearly:

1. If they are happy (which I would bet they are) then he is happy.

2. If he is happy then he is perfectly comfortable with the ownership and the management and the direction the team is heading.

3. If they are not happy, he will not be happy but he is also not worried because he would have another job within minute of that information becoming public.

4. Scotty Bowman went year to year.

 

Someone else also pointed out that if you are worried about your future you lock down the longest fattest deal you can as fast as you can. Babcock has way too much of a pedigree ( and a winning pedigree.. most winning pedigree in Detroit history if I am not mistaken) to sweat that kind of stuff

 

PS. Yes I know I am a Babock homer! Rightfully so. We don't want another "don't know what you got till it's gone" song to play out.... I'm looking at you mouthless David Lewis


Edited by The Secret, 12 May 2014 - 07:12 PM.


#53 PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 10:38 PM

Also, it is not really in Babcock's interest to sign an extension because a multi-year deal would raise the possibility of being fired, which would stain his record. Going year by year he can just move on after whatever year. 

 

If it's anything like players contracts he might make more money not asking for a multi-year deal. Okay, now I've thought about it too much...,but hey, it's the off-season.



#54 rick zombo

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 12:02 AM

 

Likely because it is not an important decision for any of them at this moment. Babcock has spelled it out pretty clearly:

1. If they are happy (which I would bet they are) then he is happy.

2. If he is happy then he is perfectly comfortable with the ownership and the management and the direction the team is heading.

3. If they are not happy, he will not be happy but he is also not worried because he would have another job within minute of that information becoming public.

4. Scotty Bowman went year to year.

 

Someone else also pointed out that if you are worried about your future you lock down the longest fattest deal you can as fast as you can. Babcock has way too much of a pedigree ( and a winning pedigree.. most winning pedigree in Detroit history if I am not mistaken) to sweat that kind of stuff

 

PS. Yes I know I am a Babock homer! Rightfully so. We don't want another "don't know what you got till it's gone" song to play out.... I'm looking at you mouthless David Lewis

 

This is a great post. 


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#55 frankgrimes

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 06:15 AM

Also, it is not really in Babcock's interest to sign an extension because a multi-year deal would raise the possibility of being fired, which would stain his record. Going year by year he can just move on after whatever year. 

 

If it's anything like players contracts he might make more money not asking for a multi-year deal. Okay, now I've thought about it too much...,but hey, it's the off-season.

 

That is a great point, Babcock and every other GM in this league knows exactly how things are:

 

Twitter Babcock is available --> his phone rinks nonstop

 

I also believe he wants to see where this team is going, before deciding his future. I mean think about it, he is the winningest coach in the history of this great franchise, nothing left to proof if he one day decides to go to a contender fine and right now nobody knows how Blashill will do in the NHL *couch* Eakins *cough*


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#56 paulwoodsfan

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 07:54 AM

Rob Rossi, Penguins beat reporter with a Pittsburgh paper, just reported on TSN Radio 1050 that Babcock would be interested in the Pens' coaching job if it is open a year from now. This is the trouble -- every decent coaching job (either contending team like Pittsburgh or big-money team like Toronto) is going to be speculated on as a good fit for Babcock as long as he is heading towards free agency. A year of this talk will do the Wings no good and a lot of harm. IMO the org needs to offer him an extension that ensures he's the best-paid coach in hockey. If he refuses to sign, then cut him loose and move on rather than go through a year of death by a thousand cuts.



#57 DickieDunn

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 10:04 AM

Rob Rossi, Penguins beat reporter with a Pittsburgh paper, just reported on TSN Radio 1050 that Babcock would be interested in the Pens' coaching job if it is open a year from now. This is the trouble -- every decent coaching job (either contending team like Pittsburgh or big-money team like Toronto) is going to be speculated on as a good fit for Babcock as long as he is heading towards free agency. A year of this talk will do the Wings no good and a lot of harm. IMO the org needs to offer him an extension that ensures he's the best-paid coach in hockey. If he refuses to sign, then cut him loose and move on rather than go through a year of death by a thousand cuts.


Didn't hurt Bowman. The players won't care unless Babcock us acting like he has a foot out the door, and panic from the chicken little fans won't affect the team either.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#58 kipwinger

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 10:12 AM

Didn't hurt Bowman. The players won't care unless Babcock us acting like he has a foot out the door, and panic from the chicken little fans won't affect the team either.

 

Point taken, but surely you'd agree that Bowman's team full of veteran Hall of Famers was FAR less likely to be distracted by anything at all than Babcock's team full of rookies, no? 

 

The fact that it didn't have a negative impact in one instance says very little about whether it will in the other.


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#59 DickieDunn

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 12:37 PM


Didn't hurt Bowman. The players won't care unless Babcock us acting like he has a foot out the door, and panic from the chicken little fans won't affect the team either.


 
Point taken, but surely you'd agree that Bowman's team full of veteran Hall of Famers was FAR less likely to be distracted by anything at all than Babcock's team full of rookies, no? 
 
The fact that it didn't have a negative impact in one instance says very little about whether it will in the other.


Maybe it will, but I doubt it. Even tjwnyounger guys are still professional hockey players. Some posts about it act like it's a certainty to hurt the team.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#60 paulwoodsfan

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 01:47 PM

I think Bowman was a much different case. He was a lot older and there was no reason to believe he would ever coach anywhere else. He was perceived as close to retirement for most of his tenure in Detroit. And he was not seen as the favourite candidate in every city with a vacancy or potential vacancy the way Babcock is.

 

If he ends up "playing out his option" with the Wings next season, without any statement from him or the team to quash suggestions he could leave of his own accord after the season, I believe it will become a major distraction and will not in any way help the Wings get back to Cup contention next season. I would love to be proven wrong but I would love a lot more to have the whole issue go away once and for all by getting him to sign an extension.







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