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Shaman

Regner: Next year could be Babcock's last

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You can't put all those names together to make it sound like he coached them all at the same time. Ya he had some good teams but he didn't have the 01/02 wings that bowman had, and some of those guys were far past their prime when he got them.

The comparison wasn't with the 02 Wings or to Bowman. The original comparison was with Quenneville's teams, and Babs has had teams just as good as Quenneville has had. Also, only Yzerman and Alfie were really past their primes out of the guys on that list.

Edited by kipwinger

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The comparison wasn't with the 02 Wings or to Bowman. The the original comparison was with Quenneville's teams, and Babs has had teams just as good as Quenneville has had. Also, only Yzerman and Alfie were really past their primes out of the guys on that list.

Doesn't matter he didn't have all those guys on one team was my point. And none of those guys were top 5 picks in their prime like Pittsburgh has. Babs won us a cup, our team hasn't been as skilled since our last cup, so we haven't had a stacked team in 5 years.

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Doesn't matter he didn't have all those guys on one team was my point. And none of those guys were top 5 picks in their prime like Pittsburgh has. Babs won us a cup, our team hasn't been as skilled since our last cup, so we haven't had a stacked team in 5 years.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. I was responding to the post below. Nothing in it referenced draft position at all. It does, however, heavily insinuate that Quenneville wins because he's got a loaded team, and poor old Babcock has to make due with what he has. But that blatantly disregards the fact that Babs has had awesome teams full of Hall of Famers, and future Hall of Famers. In 2005 he had FOUR 80+ point players (something Quenneville has never had) and EIGHT 20+ goal scorers and lost in the first round to Edmonton.

Babcock is a good coach, but it's demonstrably false to act like he's only won one Cup because the rest of the time his teams were bad or because he wasn't getting top flight players. He was.

I remember Quenneville having issues in the playoffs year after year, then he landed in Chicago, then Bowman was added into the fold... 2 cups later

Chicago has a lot of talent....

Babs has done the best he could with what was given him, more or less...

Edited by kipwinger

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Of course it's speculation, 90% of the posts on this forum are. What gave it away? The part where I said it "might" be a distraction. Glad you got to the bottom of that one Columbo.

Babs, at one point or another, was given Yzerman, Shanahan, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kronwall, Lidstrom, Rafalski, Schneider, Lang, Franzen, Stuart, Hossa, Alfredsson, Legwand, and Nyquist.

He wasn't exactly coaching a bunch of fourth liners.

Edit: Forgot Osgood, Hasek, and Chelios as well.

It has been 5 yrs since he has had most of those players. Talking about present; the last few seasons and the steady decline

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It has been 5 yrs since he has had most of those players. Talking about present; the last few seasons and the steady decline

Five years ago Babcock lost in the Cup finals with a team full of stars (and superstars). I'll concede that the last FOUR years we haven't had the personnel we had in the past. But that's all.

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Five years ago Babcock lost in the Cup finals with a team full of stars (and superstars). I'll concede that the last FOUR years we haven't had the personnel we had in the past. But that's all.

You just proved my point; thanks.

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Franzens only lazy cause of Babcock. Buying out both of them is the best option. Blashil will solve all our problems. He won the Calder cup for Pete's sake

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Babcock is the best coach in hockey for sure he won't be around for what looks to be some heavy rebuilding/tooling when contenders are going to offer him a lot of money and the chance to coach some young superstars.

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Babcock is the best coach in hockey for sure he won't be around for what looks to be some heavy rebuilding/tooling when contenders are going to offer him a lot of money and the chance to coach some young superstars.

Point being; Babcock is one, if not, one of the best coaches at the present moment and has done far more with less than what other teams have; team needs to strengthen the backend; like a reinforced diaper, to keep that crap contained, otherwise it leaks out everywhere and becomes a big mess.

Holland knows it, Babs knows it, the entire team knows it, all of Detroit and NHL fans know it, even the Eskimo who doesn't have internet and it takes 18 months to get a newspaper from 4 yrs again even knows it.

Edited by Rivalred
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Point being; Babcock is one, if not, one of the best coaches at the present moment and has done far more with less than what other teams have; team needs to strengthen the backend; like a reinforced diaper, to keep that crap contained, otherwise it leaks out everywhere and becomes a big mess.

Holland knows it, Babs knows it, the entire team knows it, all of Detroit and NHL fans know it, even the Eskimo who doesn't have internet and it takes 18 months to get a newspaper from 4 yrs again even knows it.

Jup and that is why Pittsburgh would make sense, he has a prime Crosby, Malkin plus Letang and that Maataa kid and on top of that he won't be under the microscope like in Toronto. Everyone knows if Babs wanted to stay longer he would have signed an extension, will be a sad day when he leaves can't replace greatness.

The only plus side will be Blashill knowing most of the young kids on this team and might grow into the role like the team does.

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he won't be around for what looks to be some heavy rebuilding/tooling when contenders are going to offer him a lot of money and the chance to coach some young superstars.

What are you basing this on?

I'm inclined to believe that, if anything, he likes the challenge set before him: to prove his true coaching might by steering this team through a quick "rebuild," back to true contention, and, ultimately, back to being the class of the league. (Imagine the SCF battles we could have with Chicago.) If he jumps ship to a contender and wins a Cup, then everyone turns around and says, "Oh, that Mike Babcock, so overrated. Clearly he can only win the Cup with a totally stacked roster and he knows it. That's why he left Detroit. He was never the driving force behind their post-Bowman greatness. He doesn't know how to develop young talent and turn them into stars. He lets other people do that for him and then he swoops in and takes all the glory and everyone showers him with praise. This is the guy who wanted a washed up Cleary over Nyquist. What a phony."

I think if we're still in the West, we're looking at a genuinely long road back to the top. Not necessarily so in the East. Michel Therrien is not a better coach than Mike Babcock, nor is Alain Vigneault, and their respective teams aren't much better than our current team, and our current team is about as bad as it's going to get for us, I feel.

Edited by Dabura
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To be clear: it seems safe to say there's very little, if anything, to these rumors. This is likely just a combination of Babs being a living Canadian legend and poorly run franchises looking for an easy fix-up. If LGW thought for a moment that Drew Doughty might be bought out, we'd be all effing over that s*** with our custom capgeek rosters and homer logic ("Well, we need a #1 on the back end, and Babs coached him at the Olympics. Man, now that I think about it, I bet he's demanding out of LA cuz he wants to be a Red Wing. Yeah, that has to be it!")

Edited by Dabura
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I absolutely think there's a possibility that Babcock could leave next year or sometime in the next 2-3 years, and I do think there's something to the fact that he stated that he doesn't want to sign an extension right now. I don't think that means that he's absolutely leaving next year though at all. I don't think there's anything to the rumors going around about Babcock being set on leaving next year. I don't think he has any plans to leave at this moment, and I certainly don't think he knows where he'd go. Even if Babcock did have some semblance of a real plan, I don't think anyone writing these articles is informed at all about such matters, and are just speculating because Babcock is generally considered to be the top coach in the game right now, the Wings have been struggling, and he's not interested in signing an extension at the moment. I'd bet that what Babcock's said about not wanting to sign an extension is where any legitimate information about the matter ends.

That said, again, I think there's something to that. If I were speculating, I'd say it's a message to the Wings management more than anything. Holland wants Babcock to say and has said that he wants to talk about an extension with him this summer. Babcock is the one who at least at this point has nixed the idea and said he'd do one-year deals after his current contract is up. So if Babcock leaves anytime soon, it's going to be his decision.

If Holland has expressed to the media that he wants to talk to Babcock this summer about an extension, and Babcock has expressed to the press that he's not interested in doing so and wants to do one-year deals after this contract, to me, that's Babcock sending a message to Ken Holland and the rest of the Wings management. I don't think he's saying for sure that he's going to leave, and honestly, I don't think he wants to leave. But I don't think there's any way to interpret what's been said other than to think that Babcock wants to make sure the Wings know that he has options and he's willing to keep the door open on them.

Babcock came to Detroit because it's one of the top organizations in all of sports and we've built a tradition in the last twenty years of being successful and always going for it. But things have been in a steady decline over the last few years and Holland thus far really hasn't done anything to suggest he's willing and able to turn it around. If things continue as they have, I don't expect that Babcock will want to stick around, and I do think that's the message he is sending to management. If this was an internally planned transition to bring Blashill up to take over for Babcock, why would Holland be talking about trying to sign Babs to an extension? Why would Babcock be saying he's not interested in that and will sign one-year deals after this contract expires next summer? Sure, it could all just be a smokescreen, but I really doubt it.

I think Babcock is sending a message that he needs to see a real change and more of an effort from management to put a solid roster together. He knows he can get a job anywhere, and he knows that Holland knows that. And as much as the Wings don't want to lose Blashill, I don't think anyone in management wants to see Babcock move to a team like the Penguins, though I say that for example only, not because I buy the rumors at all. Babcock has had to coach a team of Griffins players into the playoffs now two years in a row, while guys taking up decent chunks of cap space sit in the press box either injured or simply not good enough to crack the lineup. All the while, he has to hear Holland talk about how everyone is too expensive and none of the deals made sense. Like everyone else, do you really think Babcock isn't wondering what part of Holland's strategy the last four years then makes sense? He may truly have a good relationship with Holland, but he's no fool at the end of the day.

Cap space has gone unused. Cap space has been wasted on guys that can't contribute and sit in the press box or play in Grand Rapids. Your so-called stars can't be relied upon to produce. The defense has withered to the point where the pairings read more like a joke someone would have made three years ago. We would've all laughed, because even though the idea of losing Rafalski, Stuart and Lidstrom sounded terrible, it could never get that bad. Welcome to 2014, where yesterday's doom and gloom jokes about the defense have taken shape in reality, but we still were signing more forwards in August last year even though we already had too many.

If Holland turns it around and gives Babcock a roster that features a real defense and a slightly refreshed offense, and it becomes clear once again that we're going to actually take the idea of being a top team seriously, I fully expect Babcock to stay, even if it means losing Blashill. If we see a repeat of the last four summers and another roster full of holes on defense, I think it's very likely Babcock will leave. Maybe he really will take a non-NHL job; who knows? As said, I doubt Babcock really even knows, though I do know for certain that Art Regner nor anyone else writing about hockey on blogs or in papers has absolutely any idea at all.

But given what's been said by Holland and Babcock, I think it's clear that Babs is at a point where he's willing to throw his weight around and send the message that he is not content to continue to polish turd rosters just enough to hopefully eek into the playoffs and lose.

Edited by gcom007
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I absolutely think there's a possibility that Babcock could leave next year or sometime in the next 2-3 years, and I do think there's something to the fact that he stated that he doesn't want to sign an extension right now. I don't think that means that he's absolutely leaving next year though at all. I don't think there's anything to the rumors going around about Babcock being set on leaving next year. I don't think he has any plans to leave at this moment, and I certainly don't think he knows where he'd go. Even if Babcock did have some semblance of a real plan, I don't think anyone writing these articles is informed at all about such matters, and are just speculating because Babcock is generally considered to be the top coach in the game right now, the Wings have been struggling, and he's not interested in signing an extension at the moment. I'd bet that what Babcock's said about not wanting to sign an extension is where any legitimate information about the matter ends.

That said, again, I think there's something to that. If I were speculating, I'd say it's a message to the Wings management more than anything. Holland wants Babcock to say and has said that he wants to talk about an extension with him this summer. Babcock is the one who at least at this point has nixed the idea and said he'd do one-year deals after his current contract is up. So if Babcock leaves anytime soon, it's going to be his decision.

If Holland has expressed to the media that he wants to talk to Babcock this summer about an extension, and Babcock has expressed to the press that he's not interested in doing so and wants to do one-year deals after this contract, to me, that's Babcock sending a message to Ken Holland and the rest of the Wings management. I don't think he's saying for sure that he's going to leave, and honestly, I don't think he wants to leave. But I don't think there's any way to interpret what's been said other than to think that Babcock wants to make sure the Wings know that he has options and he's willing to keep the door open on them.

Babcock came to Detroit because it's one of the top organizations in all of sports and we've built a tradition in the last twenty years of being successful and always going for it. But things have been in a steady decline over the last few years and Holland thus far really hasn't done anything to suggest he's willing and able to turn it around. If things continue as they have, I don't expect that Babcock will want to stick around, and I do think that's the message he is sending to management. If this was an internally planned transition to bring Blashill up to take over for Babcock, why would Holland be talking about trying to sign Babs to an extension? Why would Babcock be saying he's not interested in that and will sign one-year deals after this contract expires next summer? Sure, it could all just be a smokescreen, but I really doubt it.

I think Babcock is sending a message that he needs to see a real change and more of an effort from management to put a solid roster together. He knows he can get a job anywhere, and he knows that Holland knows that. And as much as the Wings don't want to lose Blashill, I don't think anyone in management wants to see Babcock move to a team like the Penguins, though I say that for example only, not because I buy the rumors at all. Babcock has had to coach a team of Griffins players into the playoffs now two years in a row, while guys taking up decent chunks of cap space sit in the press box either injured or simply not good enough to crack the lineup. All the while, he has to hear Holland talk about how everyone is too expensive and none of the deals made sense. Like everyone else, do you really think Babcock isn't wondering what part of Holland's strategy the last four years then makes sense? He may truly have a good relationship with Holland, but he's no fool at the end of the day.

Cap space has gone unused. Cap space has been wasted on guys that can't contribute and sit in the press box or play in Grand Rapids. Your so-called stars can't be relied upon to produce. The defense has withered to the point where the pairings read more like a joke someone would have made three years ago. We would've all laughed, because even though the idea of losing Rafalski, Stuart and Lidstrom sounded terrible, it could never get that bad. Welcome to 2014, where yesterday's doom and gloom jokes about the defense have taken shape in reality, but we still were signing more forwards in August last year even though we already had too many.

If Holland turns it around and gives Babcock a roster that features a real defense and a slightly refreshed offense, and it becomes clear once again that we're going to actually take the idea of being a top team seriously, I fully expect Babcock to stay, even if it means losing Blashill. If we see a repeat of the last four summers and another roster full of holes on defense, I think it's very likely Babcock will leave. Maybe he really will take a non-NHL job; who knows? As said, I doubt Babcock really even knows, though I do know for certain that Art Regner nor anyone else writing about hockey on blogs or in papers has absolutely any idea at all.

But given what's been said by Holland and Babcock, I think it's clear that Babs is at a point where he's willing to throw his weight around and send the message that he is not content to continue to polish turd rosters just enough to hopefully eek into the playoffs and lose.

First off, let me just say that a Babcock move-on would be natural. Like, "Circle of Life” style stuff. It doesn’t ******* have to be a **** wagging finger pointing ordeal.

Secondly, I totally agree. It’s all Holland’s fault. For example, if Yzerman was our GM, Babcock would stay. I mean, just look at that Olympic roster! Yzerman’s Olympic roster > Holland’s Red Wings.

It’s all Holland’s fault. Babcock rulez!!!!!!!!

#hollandwitchhunt14

Edited by rick zombo

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What are you basing this on?

I'm inclined to believe that, if anything, he likes the challenge set before him: to prove his true coaching might by steering this team through a quick "rebuild," back to true contention, and, ultimately, back to being the class of the league. (Imagine the SCF battles we could have with Chicago.) If he jumps ship to a contender and wins a Cup, then everyone turns around and says, "Oh, that Mike Babcock, so overrated. Clearly he can only win the Cup with a totally stacked roster and he knows it. That's why he left Detroit. He was never the driving force behind their post-Bowman greatness. He doesn't know how to develop young talent and turn them into stars. He lets other people do that for him and then he swoops in and takes all the glory and everyone showers him with praise. This is the guy who wanted a washed up Cleary over Nyquist. What a phony."

I think if we're still in the West, we're looking at a genuinely long road back to the top. Not necessarily so in the East. Michel Therrien is not a better coach than Mike Babcock, nor is Alain Vigneault, and their respective teams aren't much better than our current team, and our current team is about as bad as it's going to get for us, I feel.

Alain Vigeneault has one thing no other has: Henrik Lundqvist just ask Crosby what this guy can do when he feels it

Michel Therrien: for whatever reason the Habs are always playing very well against Boston but is he a great coach ? Far from it, the guy trashtalked about his whole team in Pittsburgh you don#t do something like that

What has Babcock left to proof ?

- back to back gold medals and one of them on difficult big ice conditions

- Stanley Cup with the Red Wings, Stanley Cup Finals 2009

- got an injury rattled and star deploited roster into the playoffs two times in a row

- winnigest coach in Red Wings history

No matter what other people think, the guy is a winner and he has done it all. No matter if he stays or goes I will always hold him in such high regards. Babcock could go to St. Louis, Pittsburgh...it's not just coincidence that some GM's have only given out 1 year contracts.

I'm not basing this on any "sources" just adding 1 + 1 up. A challenge also means getting a cup worthy roster to play for the cup and in the best case winning it, just ask the Blues how hard that is.

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I'm not basing this on any "sources" just adding 1 + 1 up. A challenge also means getting a cup worthy roster to play for the cup and in the best case winning it, just ask the Blues how hard that is.

Fair enough.

Look, Babs won't be a Red Wing forever. He'll probably be moving on within the next few years. I'm fine with that. But these rumors? They're bulls***. Sinister, self-fellating, Wings-hating bulls***.

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Alain Vigeneault has one thing no other has: Henrik Lundqvist just ask Crosby what this guy can do when he feels it

Michel Therrien: for whatever reason the Habs are always playing very well against Boston but is he a great coach ? Far from it, the guy trashtalked about his whole team in Pittsburgh you don#t do something like that

What has Babcock left to proof ?

- back to back gold medals and one of them on difficult big ice conditions

- Stanley Cup with the Red Wings, Stanley Cup Finals 2009

- got an injury rattled and star deploited roster into the playoffs two times in a row

- winnigest coach in Red Wings history

No matter what other people think, the guy is a winner and he has done it all. No matter if he stays or goes I will always hold him in such high regards. Babcock could go to St. Louis, Pittsburgh...it's not just coincidence that some GM's have only given out 1 year contracts.

I'm not basing this on any "sources" just adding 1 + 1 up. A challenge also means getting a cup worthy roster to play for the cup and in the best case winning it, just ask the Blues how hard that is.

Don't forget he also got the Ducks to the Finals in 2003. With hardly an impressive lineup they swept the Red Wings in the first round and took NJ to 7 games in the finals

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What are you basing this on?

I'm inclined to believe that, if anything, he likes the challenge set before him: to prove his true coaching might by steering this team through a quick "rebuild," back to true contention, and, ultimately, back to being the class of the league. (Imagine the SCF battles we could have with Chicago.) If he jumps ship to a contender and wins a Cup, then everyone turns around and says, "Oh, that Mike Babcock, so overrated. Clearly he can only win the Cup with a totally stacked roster and he knows it. That's why he left Detroit. He was never the driving force behind their post-Bowman greatness. He doesn't know how to develop young talent and turn them into stars. He lets other people do that for him and then he swoops in and takes all the glory and everyone showers him with praise. This is the guy who wanted a washed up Cleary over Nyquist. What a phony."

I think if we're still in the West, we're looking at a genuinely long road back to the top. Not necessarily so in the East. Michel Therrien is not a better coach than Mike Babcock, nor is Alain Vigneault, and their respective teams aren't much better than our current team, and our current team is about as bad as it's going to get for us, I feel.

WTF? Both had better records, more points and are still playing in the PO's! That is BETTER than us.

As for Babs, he is a great coach, has been a great coach, and will be a great coach. Be it for us, some other NHL team, college team, HS team, mite team, whatever HE wants to do. He has earned it.

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Fair enough.

Look, Babs won't be a Red Wing forever. He'll probably be moving on within the next few years. I'm fine with that. But these rumors? They're bulls***. Sinister, self-fellating, Wings-hating bulls***.

Make no mistake we would be acting the same way, if rumors such as Minnesotta can't afford Suter any longer would come out. That's the luxury the media and we as fans have, GMs and owners can't act like that because they need to improve their product now. Does it help the Penguins if Babcock becomes next year available ? Not now.

But yeah he is and always will be a great coach no matter what he does but I know one thing for sure, playing against a top contender coached by Babock is like playing Team Canada light = for sure not something I'd be looking forward to as an opponent.

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Red Wings coach Mike Babcock on Hockey Night in Canada

“When you’ve been in a place nine years like I have, going into my 10th year, it becomes a mutual thing. You want to be someplace where they want you. If they don’t want you, you move on. I’m going to coach in the league for a long time yet, there’s going to be opportunities for me. I like what we’ve done in Detroit; we’ve rebuilt on the fly…I think we have a chance to be better next year and better in the future. So, I tell people all the time: I’ve got a good place to hunt, I’ve got a good place to water ski, my family’s happy, my youngest girl is finishing school next year so I’m free that way. But there’s no reason to move if you don’t have to move or if it doesn’t excite you to. I’ve always been a believer that the grass is greener right here at home as long as you fertilize and water.”

He is not going anywhere! No more Babcock leaving or being fired threads needed. Let the league of idiots have their fun dreaming but that is about all they will get. Babs is home here in Detroit! We did not have to have a long rebuilding process due to our scouting and farm system. Even this past year we could have completed as much as any had we been healthy enough. We add health, more experienced youth, less dead weight and another piece or 2 and we are right back in the thick with a very long bright future to go along with the rich history, best owner and a very good GM (even though I don't like all his moves, or lack of moves).

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I'm sure everything Babcock said was true -- he likes his life, he likes the team, the grass isn't always greener, etc. But that doesn't mean he is not going to listen to other offers if and when he gets to free agency. Someone comes in and offers $10M/season, you could buy a fancy hunting lodge and a big cottage on a lake for that. This talk will end only if/when MB signs a new contract -- until then he will be fans'/media's darling candidate for every good coaching job in hockey.

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I'm sure everything Babcock said was true -- he likes his life, he likes the team, the grass isn't always greener, etc. But that doesn't mean he is not going to listen to other offers if and when he gets to free agency. Someone comes in and offers $10M/season, you could buy a fancy hunting lodge and a big cottage on a lake for that. This talk will end only if/when MB signs a new contract -- until then he will be fans'/media's darling candidate for every good coaching job in hockey.

Babcock makes $2m/year which is tops in the league. Not even gms make more than that. The fact is babs won't be leaving for more money, maybe for a new opportunity but no gm is offering a coach $3m/year, let alone 10

Edited by Euro_Twins
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I don't know the source of the salary figure you cite, Euro, but regardless I don't think it is a fact that Babcock won't leave for more money -- it is conjecture. There is nothing stopping any owner from making an offer way above market rates -- it has happened in all other sports and it could happen in hockey, especially for a coach who has won at the two highest levels on earth.

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I don't know the source of the salary figure you cite, Euro, but regardless I don't think it is a fact that Babcock won't leave for more money -- it is conjecture. There is nothing stopping any owner from making an offer way above market rates -- it has happened in all other sports and it could happen in hockey, especially for a coach who has won at the two highest levels on earth.

You're the second person to call someone out for speculating in this thread. I'm not exactly sure how you plan to discuss the future without speculating to some degree. The whole point of this thread is to speculate about what Babs will do in a year. Euro_Twins' speculation, or conjecture, is no different than your own attempt to divine the future without substantive evidence. But he's no more a soothsayer than you.

The only thing one could say about Babs' coaching status that isn't speculation is..."Mike Babcock currently doesn't coach for any other team aside from the Detroit Red Wings".

And that would be a pretty boring (and short) thread.

Edit: Also, I'm providing a link which should explain to you exactly why an owner won't typically make offers way above market rates. It's only a general overview, since the subject matter is a little dense, but a thorough reading should get you pretty far on your way toward understanding why Mike Babcock will never get offered 10 million dollars. Enjoy!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics

Edited by kipwinger

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